Price for building wheels? Recommendations?

davidd86 said:

What's a reasonable charge for wheelbuilding? I was surprised that a local racing shop quoted me $60 per wheel, + $.50/spoke for straight-gauge SS spokes. That just seems like a lot. Or is that the going rate these days?

BTW, any recommendations, in the NJ/Phila area for wheelbuilders? These are just 36' hubs/rims that i've had for a while -- I realize some places charge a bit more if you don't buy the components from them.

Thanks!

Are you supplying the rims, too?

Or, is that somehow incorporated in the $60 per wheel fee?

If not, then you're looking at $120+ per wheel! THAT is a lot ...

Time for you to learn wheel building if you want to use those hubs. It's not that difficult.

After you get your rims, use this spoke calc site to determine the spoke lengths you need:

[center]geocities.comwheel.htmlOpen ↗[/center]

OR, sell the hubs on eBay if they are truly nice hubs.

Figure on closer to $35 per wheel + parts, BTW ...

davidd86 said:

What's a reasonable charge for wheelbuilding? I was surprised that a local racing shop quoted me $60 per wheel, + $.50/spoke for straight-gauge SS spokes. That just seems like a lot. Or is that the going rate these days?

BTW, any recommendations, in the NJ/Phila area for wheelbuilders? These are just 36' hubs/rims that i've had for a while -- I realize some places charge a bit more if you don't buy the components from them.

Thanks!

When I was building wheels regularly it took me around an hour each start-to-finish. (I don't think that I could do one that quickly today.) On that basis, $60.00 sounds in line with shop prices for other work.

One of the quirky facts of the bike business is that I can buy a pre-built wheelset for less than I have to pay for the components to build the same wheelset myself.

Your quote does seem a bit steep, but it's worth pointing out that with wheelbuilding, quality's more important than price... a really well-built set of wheels will stay true longer, be stronger, ride nicer and transmit the power better. So go by personal recommendation rather than trying to save the last few dollars.
FWIW, I just had some wheels built by Mercian in the UK, using some new old stock Campag 28s hubs and Durex grey tubular rims (they're for a restoration on my 1982 race bike). Bill for building inc. stainless butted spokes was GBP65 (about 120 USD) for the pair.

davidd86 said:

What's a reasonable charge for wheelbuilding? I was surprised that a local racing shop quoted me $60 per wheel, + $.50/spoke for straight-gauge SS spokes. That just seems like a lot. Or is that the going rate these days?

BTW, any recommendations, in the NJ/Phila area for wheelbuilders? These are just 36' hubs/rims that i've had for a while -- I realize some places charge a bit more if you don't buy the components from them.

Thanks!

$.45-$.50 is about the going rate for a straight DT spoke.(Before handing over any money, find out exactly what kind of spokes they're going to use.) $60 for the build seems to be on the high side of average, but if the builder has a really good reputation it's probably worth it.

alfeng said:

Time for you to learn wheel building if you want to use those hubs. It's not that difficult.

[Shrug...] It may not be that difficult, but it sure takes a long time if it's your first time. Even if you are good at it and have plenty of experience, it'll cost you about an hour per wheel by the time all is said and done. That's fine if you like doing that kind of thing as a hobby, but if not, well, at least my time is worth a lot more than those 60 bucks.

As a comparison, our shop charges about $50 for a job we think will take an hour. Building one wheel takes bout 1/2 hour so it's $25 (that's for our pimp-shnizle mechanics, it takes me longer to get it as perfect as they can). $60 is a lot, IMO, but the .50 a spoke sounds right.

J

Dietmar said:

[Shrug...] It may not be that difficult, but it sure takes a long time if it's your first time. Even if you are good at it and have plenty of experience, it'll cost you about an hour per wheel by the time all is said and done. That's fine if you like doing that kind of thing as a hobby, but if not, well, at least my time is worth a lot more than those 60 bucks.

So, you do NO chores around the house?

No "down" time when you are decompressing from the week?

How do you even justify the time spent a the bike if you're not being paid?!?

Do you go to Church, Temple, whatever? If so, I hope you're dropping MORE THAN $60 in the collection plate each week based on your notion of time & money.

I am a member of REI. They charged me $30 for re-build labor last fall on a set of wheels.

if this is the first pair of wheels you build, it will take well OVER an hour to get it right. besides getting the right spoke length and ordering some spokes, and making sure the drive side spokes are correctly aligned, that the valve tube is in the right spot, etc, he will have no idea what proper spoke tension should be, what dishing is, how to pre-stress (set) spokes, has no decent truing stand (add $40 to $120) or a dish checking tool (not absolute necessity, but add whatever those go for); they will probably not hold true for very long, he will probably round off some nipples so they are tough to true down the road, etc.

I build my own wheels, and it is a good skill to learn: there is even something relaxing about it because you have to take your time and pay attention (the decompression time alfeng mentioned), and it will help you to judge the quality of any spoken wheel. I highly recommend learning to build wheels. But it's not for everyone. I have friend(s) who probably couldn't put together shelves out of the box, much less a gas grill or something. wheel-building is not for them.

$60 for new wheels is probably about right, if there is a guarantee against spoke breakage and that they will stay true under normal riding conditions (or at least get a free re-truing for a couple months) for a year. no one is getting rich building wheels, especially if it's done right. almost anyone can lace a wheel, but to build a long-lasting, true one takes time and experience and you're paying for that. (when was the last time you had a plumber or electrician in the house for 2 hours and dropped 3-5x that?)

I would shop around, and ask cycling buddies if they know of a good builder or an "independent contractor" i.e. someone who doesn't work in a shop or builds wheels on the side for fun and (little) profit. but the idea that shops are getting rich off this or other labor is wrong: it's not that profitable think of how many tune-ups or flat fixes (yes, some people bring the bike to a shop to fix a flat, and that's how shops survive!) they could get done in the same time. some people are willing to pay to have work done, and done right, and if you are of that type, finding a good mechanic at a good shop and paying them a reasonable price for their time is ok
btw, I had an accident once that sheared some spokes and the shop owner wanted a buck a piece for spokes, and that was 12 years ago. It was my first and last visit to that shop (well, I did go back in, but was confirmed that the guy was a [censored]. the shop closed, for good reason.)

buckybux said:

I am a member of REI. They charged me $30 for re-build labor last fall on a set of wheels.

the real bucky lives! (inside joke a few will get)

what kind of guarantee did you get with that? did the wheels hold true?

davidd86 said:

What's a reasonable charge for wheelbuilding? I was surprised that a local racing shop quoted me $60 per wheel, + $.50/spoke for straight-gauge SS spokes. That just seems like a lot. Or is that the going rate these days?

BTW, any recommendations, in the NJ/Phila area for wheelbuilders? These are just 36' hubs/rims that i've had for a while -- I realize some places charge a bit more if you don't buy the components from them.

Thanks!

In my experience, $50-60/wheel is what the big city rate for a pro job is going to run. As mentioned earlier, that usually will include some sort of guarantee against spoke breakage and free re-truing for some period of time.

Some shops will charge $35-40. As some one said, out of the box wheels end up being cheaper, especially since those are usually mass-produced, machine made wheels.

alfeng said:

So, you do NO chores around the house?

I notice you seem to have a habit of jumping to conclusions, based on even the flimsiest of evidence, or even none at all, as in this case. That's a bad habit, that is likely to lead you to entirely wrong conclusions, as in this case. My advice is to lose that habit. 😎

alfeng said:

How do you even justify the time spent a the bike if you're not being paid?!?

You may want to carefully re-read my post for the answer. Here, I'll give you a hint: The answer is right there. 😄

alfeng said:

Do you go to Church, Temple, whatever? If so, I hope you're dropping MORE THAN $60 in the collection plate each week based on your notion of time & money.

Come again? So, now you are saying that, in addition to investing my time in these activities, I should also pay for them? And you infer that from what you have, erhmm, concluded, must be my "notion of time & money"? In addition to reading comprehension, logic does not seem to be your strong suit, either. You might want to work on that as well...

mnr3 said:

if this is the first pair of wheels you build, it will take well OVER an hour to get it right. besides getting the right spoke length and ordering some spokes, and making sure the drive side spokes are correctly aligned, that the valve tube is in the right spot, etc, he will have no idea what proper spoke tension should be, what dishing is, how to pre-stress (set) spokes, has no decent truing stand (add $40 to $120) or a dish checking tool (not absolute necessity, but add whatever those go for); they will probably not hold true for very long, he will probably round off some nipples so they are tough to true down the road, etc.

I fully agree; if it's your first time, this will be more like an afternoon. Plus, you will probably end up spending some more time down the road truing that wheel after some mileage.

mnr3 said:

but to build a long-lasting, true one takes time and experience and you're paying for that.

Yup, a very good point, too. You also won't be happy if your proudly self-built wheel breaks, because of improper spoke tension (too much, or too little), leaving you with a serious case of road rash, or worse...

Dietmar said:

I notice you seem to have a habit of jumping to conclusions, based on even the flimsiest of evidence, or even none at all, as in this case. That's a bad habit, that is likely to lead you to entirely wrong conclusions, as in this case. My advice is to lose that habit. 😎

You may want to carefully re-read my post for the answer. Here, I'll give you a hint: The answer is right there. 😄

Come again? So, now you are saying that, in addition to investing my time in these activities, I should also pay for them? And you infer that from what you have, erhmm, concluded, must be my "notion of time & money"? In addition to reading comprehension, logic does not seem to be your strong suit, either. You might want to work on that as well...

Oh, sorry.

Your terseness without clarity for the sake of attempts at cleverness can only lead a literate person to draw certain conclusions.

Chill, Dude ... I may have flaws, but you think way too highly of what your time is worth ... or, how clearly you write.

alfeng said:

Your terseness without clarity ...

Ah well, that may be in the eye of the beholder, may it not? Whether or not a certain piece of prose appears clear to someone certainly does depend on that person's grasp of the language in question, doesn't it?

alfeng said:

...can only lead a literate person to draw certain conclusions.

See, there you go again, "drawing conclusions". Although it is certainly my pleasure to engage in an argument with a literate person, didn't I tell you to lay off of your attempts at the art of drawing inferences from limited data? 🙄

alfeng said:

I may have flaws, but you think way too highly of what your time is worth ... or, how clearly you write.

Well, let's just say that I have written many hundreds of pages in my professional life, which have been published in books and journals. I'll grant you that I do not typically write about bicycle mechanics, but of all the editors and reviewers judging my writing you are in fact the first one to complain about the clarity, or rather the lack thereof, of my writing. Shall I now proceed to draw some conclusions from that? 😄

O.k., seriously now, I have no desire to engage in pointless argument with you. As you might have guessed, my time is too valuable for that. 😉
I do admit that the style of your initial response to my post did bother me, for reasons that I have made clear, and that maybe my response was unnecessarily harsh. I apologize if that is so. I propose to end this argument at this point, at least from my side, but feel free to add any comments of yours that you feel are necessary.

Dietmar said:

Ah well, that may be in the eye of the beholder, may it not? Whether or not a certain piece of prose appears clear to someone certainly does depend on that person's grasp of the language in question, doesn't it?

See, there you go again, "drawing conclusions". Although it is certainly my pleasure to engage in an argument with a literate person, didn't I tell you to lay off of your attempts at the art of drawing inferences from limited data? 🙄

Well, let's just say that I have written many hundreds of pages in my professional life, which have been published in books and journals. I'll grant you that I do not typically write about bicycle mechanics, but of all the editors and reviewers judging my writing you are in fact the first one to complain about the clarity, or rather the lack thereof, of my writing. Shall I now proceed to draw some conclusions from that? 😄

O.k., seriously now, I have no desire to engage in pointless argument with you. As you might have guessed, my time is too valuable for that. 😉
I do admit that the style of your initial response to my post did bother me, for reasons that I have made clear, and that maybe my response was unnecessarily harsh. I apologize if that is so. I propose to end this argument at this point, at least from my side, but feel free to add any comments of yours that you feel are necessary.

Chicago Public School? Latin School? Suburban School? You didn't complete your CV for us!

I've said it before, and I'll say it again -- literacy is the responsibility of the reader AND the writer. Let me add:

[center]"Words without meaning never to heaven go."[/center]

FWIW. I've read some poorly written stuff in "professional" journals. :eek:

If you abbreviate your thoughts because you think you are being clear beyond exception, then you are in error.

If you think tossing out a minimalist statement is meaningful in-and-of-itself, you are mistaken; particularly, if the remark does not in part address the original question -- not whether it was worth your time, but whether a fee was a going rate based on what others thought ...

If you toss out a cocktail-party remark, then you have to be willing to defend it.

If you make a flip remark, and aren't willing to defend it, then who is to blame?

Too bad you couldn't comprehend my queries which you chose to take as absolute statements.

The ONLY statement I originally made was that if you go to Church/Temple/whatever that "I hope you're dropping MORE THAN $60 in the collection plate each week based on your notion of time & money."

Literacy? I guess I didn't take into account he to whom I was writing -- the fault, therefore, is MINE.

"So it is said, so it is written ..."

davidd86 said:

What's a reasonable charge for wheelbuilding? I was surprised that a local racing shop quoted me $60 per wheel, + $.50/spoke for straight-gauge SS spokes. That just seems like a lot. Or is that the going rate these days?

BTW, any recommendations, in the NJ/Phila area for wheelbuilders? These are just 36' hubs/rims that i've had for a while -- I realize some places charge a bit more if you don't buy the components from them.

Thanks!

Here's a page from Peter White's site. Peter is a well known and respected wheelbuilder and there are a lot of interesting comments on this page. But, with respect to cost/wheel to build, I think that Peter's $30-35 per wheel puts things in perspective. If Peter is only getting $30-35(depending on the # of spokes), then I would have to think that if you're paying more than about $40, then you are getting taken. Ok, here's the link:

http://peterwhitecycles.com/wheels.asp

davidd86 said:

What's a reasonable charge for wheelbuilding? I was surprised that a local racing shop quoted me $60 per wheel, + $.50/spoke for straight-gauge SS spokes. That just seems like a lot. Or is that the going rate these days?

BTW, any recommendations, in the NJ/Phila area for wheelbuilders? These are just 36' hubs/rims that i've had for a while -- I realize some places charge a bit more if you don't buy the components from them.

Thanks!

$60/wheel is way, way, way... way too much.

hd reynolds said:

$60/wheel is way, way, way... way too much.

I agree that it is too much, but market forces drive the price for everything, and here in Seattle (and apparently in Philadelphia), the top pro shops charge that much because they can.

I build my own.