pre-flight check

Carl Fogel said:

The pre-flight check for my daily ride reminded me why I use Slime
tubes:

http://i8.tinypic.com/2gtpxd2.jpg

http://i16.tinypic.com/44td0dx.jpg

Quoted message said:

I must have leaned over just a little too far in just the wrong
place in a turn yesterday and caught a goathead, but the rear tire
tube held pressure overnight.

That's an awful looking rim; no eyelets and bulging around spokes. No
wonder people use spoke glue these days with such rims that can't
support reasonable spoke tension. Other than that, I see you're using
your bicycle as a mine sweeper again. Don't do that.

Other than that, have you seen the "Best Film of 2006", "The Lives of
Others"? Don't miss it if you want to see how it's done when big
brother wants to know.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Carl Fogel said:

The pre-flight check for my daily ride reminded me why I use Slime
tubes:

http://i8.tinypic.com/2gtpxd2.jpg

http://i16.tinypic.com/44td0dx.jpg

Quoted message said:

I must have leaned over just a little too far in just the wrong
place in a turn yesterday and caught a goathead, but the rear tire
tube held pressure overnight.

That's an awful looking rim; no eyelets and bulging around spokes. No
wonder people use spoke glue these days with such rims that can't
support reasonable spoke tension. Other than that, I see you're using
your bicycle as a mine sweeper again. Don't do that.

Other than that, have you seen the "Best Film of 2006", "The Lives of
Others"? Don't miss it if you want to see how it's done when big
brother wants to know.

Jobst Brandt

Dear Jobst,

Er, what bulging?

You may have been fooled by dirt, camera angle, or reflection, but I
can't see any bulging in either of the original pictures:

http://i8.tinypic.com/2gtpxd2.jpg

http://i16.tinypic.com/44td0dx.jpg

Here's a level picture with the bike upside down and the flat fixed:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=468975956&size=l

What may look like bulging is either grime on the rim or reflection
from the spoke nipple.

I knew that you'd appreciate yet another example of the many
advantages of flipping a bike upside down.

🙂

Here's a square-angle photo, looking straight down at the somewhat
cleaner wheel removed from the bike and leveled on 2x4's:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=468975958&size=l

The center spoke has the least close-up camera-angle distortion.
Darned if I see any bulging.

Here's an angled picture of the same rim:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=468975962&size=l

Note the grime past the rightmost spoke. Note the absence of bulges.

Spokes are at 200~225 pounds tension. None have loosened.

Concerning glue and linseed, most posts on that subject refer to
wheels with much fewer than the 36 spokes of my rim. Just to be safe,
I use a carefully measured mixture of oil and road crud to insure that
my spoke nipples turn reluctantly.

As for not using my bicycles as a minesweeper to pick up goatheads,
you forgot to provide a link to a map of where this can be done in
Pueblo County. That was my third goathead flat in my last nine 15-mile
rides.

You might as well tell Seattle riders not to get wet.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Carl Fogel said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The pre-flight check for my daily ride reminded me why I use Slime
tubes:

http://i8.tinypic.com/2gtpxd2.jpg

http://i16.tinypic.com/44td0dx.jpg

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I must have leaned over just a little too far in just the wrong
place in a turn yesterday and caught a goathead, but the rear tire
tube held pressure overnight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's an awful looking rim; no eyelets and bulging around spokes.
No wonder people use spoke glue these days with such rims that
can't support reasonable spoke tension. Other than that, I see
you're using your bicycle as a mine sweeper again. Don't do that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Other than that, have you seen the "Best Film of 2006", "The Lives
of Others"? Don't miss it if you want to see how it's done when
big brother wants to know.

Quoted message said:

Er, what bulging?

Quoted message said:

You may have been fooled by dirt, camera angle, or reflection, but I
can't see any bulging in either of the original pictures:

http://i8.tinypic.com/2gtpxd2.jpg

http://i16.tinypic.com/44td0dx.jpg

Quoted message said:

Here's a level picture with the bike upside down and the flat fixed:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=468975956&size=l

Quoted message said:

What may look like bulging is either grime on the rim or reflection
from the spoke nipple.

Quoted message said:

I knew that you'd appreciate yet another example of the many
advantages of flipping a bike upside down.

Quoted message said:

🙂

Quoted message said:

Here's a square-angle photo, looking straight down at the somewhat
cleaner wheel removed from the bike and leveled on 2x4's:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=468975958&size=l

Quoted message said:

The center spoke has the least close-up camera-angle distortion.
Darned if I see any bulging.

Quoted message said:

Here's an angled picture of the same rim:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=468975962&size=l

Quoted message said:

Note the grime past the rightmost spoke. Note the absence of bulges.

Quoted message said:

Spokes are at 200~225 pounds tension. None have loosened.

That looks a lot better than what I thought I saw in the first scene.
Yes, the rim is unblemished. I suppose I should look at this again
after 10,000 miles. If the rim is still in as good shape as now, I
should get some of these. What are they? Actually, I have enough
MA-2 rims to last a long while but I'm curious what rim that is.

Quoted message said:

Concerning glue and linseed, most posts on that subject refer to
wheels with much fewer than the 36 spokes of my rim. Just to be
safe, I use a carefully measured mixture of oil and road crud to
insure that my spoke nipples turn reluctantly.

At the tension you seem to have they shouldn't move anyway. It's the
friction between rim and spoke nipple that prevents rotation. That
surface lies at more than three times the friction radius of the spoke
thread and is far less likely to move. After all, it is the spoke
nipple that unscrews, not the spoke.

Quoted message said:

As for not using my bicycles as a minesweeper to pick up goatheads,
you forgot to provide a link to a map of where this can be done in
Pueblo County. That was my third goathead flat in my last nine
15-mile rides.

Quoted message said:

You might as well tell Seattle riders not to get wet.

I surmised you were riding that bike path from and earlier thread,
that is overgrown with puncture vine.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Carl Fogel said:

Quoted message said:

> The pre-flight check for my daily ride reminded me why I use Slime
> tubes:

http://i8.tinypic.com/2gtpxd2.jpg

http://i16.tinypic.com/44td0dx.jpg

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I must have leaned over just a little too far in just the wrong
> place in a turn yesterday and caught a goathead, but the rear tire
> tube held pressure overnight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's an awful looking rim; no eyelets and bulging around spokes.
No wonder people use spoke glue these days with such rims that
can't support reasonable spoke tension. Other than that, I see
you're using your bicycle as a mine sweeper again. Don't do that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Other than that, have you seen the "Best Film of 2006", "The Lives
of Others"? Don't miss it if you want to see how it's done when
big brother wants to know.

Quoted message said:

Er, what bulging?

Quoted message said:

You may have been fooled by dirt, camera angle, or reflection, but I
can't see any bulging in either of the original pictures:

http://i8.tinypic.com/2gtpxd2.jpg

http://i16.tinypic.com/44td0dx.jpg

Quoted message said:

Here's a level picture with the bike upside down and the flat fixed:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=468975956&size=l

Quoted message said:

What may look like bulging is either grime on the rim or reflection
from the spoke nipple.

Quoted message said:

I knew that you'd appreciate yet another example of the many
advantages of flipping a bike upside down.

Quoted message said:

🙂

Quoted message said:

Here's a square-angle photo, looking straight down at the somewhat
cleaner wheel removed from the bike and leveled on 2x4's:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=468975958&size=l

Quoted message said:

The center spoke has the least close-up camera-angle distortion.
Darned if I see any bulging.

Quoted message said:

Here's an angled picture of the same rim:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=468975962&size=l

Quoted message said:

Note the grime past the rightmost spoke. Note the absence of bulges.

Quoted message said:

Spokes are at 200~225 pounds tension. None have loosened.

That looks a lot better than what I thought I saw in the first scene.
Yes, the rim is unblemished.

funny how the mind plays tricks why trying to make the facts fit
preconception.

Quoted message said:

I suppose I should look at this again
after 10,000 miles.

why? if it hasn't yielded now, it won't yield later. unless it
fatigues, in which case, cracking will be evident.

Quoted message said:

If the rim is still in as good shape as now, I
should get some of these. What are they? Actually, I have enough
MA-2 rims to last a long while but I'm curious what rim that is.

as an "expert" you should use many different rims as a matter of course.
it's called "research".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Concerning glue and linseed, most posts on that subject refer to
wheels with much fewer than the 36 spokes of my rim. Just to be
safe, I use a carefully measured mixture of oil and road crud to
insure that my spoke nipples turn reluctantly.

At the tension you seem to have they shouldn't move anyway.

er, the turn reluctancy derives from the linseed, not spoke tension.
but if you can tell spoke tension from a photograph, you should get
yourself on over to boeing asap. i believe they waste millions of
dollars a year on torque measurement - you could surely get them to pay
you substantial sums if all they have to do is email you pics of stuff
to get your expert certification.

Quoted message said:

It's the
friction between rim and spoke nipple that prevents rotation. That
surface lies at more than three times the friction radius of the spoke
thread and is far less likely to move. After all, it is the spoke
nipple that unscrews, not the spoke.

so what's the magnitude of the friction when spoke tension is zero?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As for not using my bicycles as a minesweeper to pick up goatheads,
you forgot to provide a link to a map of where this can be done in
Pueblo County. That was my third goathead flat in my last nine
15-mile rides.

Quoted message said:

You might as well tell Seattle riders not to get wet.

I surmised you were riding that bike path from and earlier thread,
that is overgrown with puncture vine.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

The pre-flightcheckfor my daily ride reminded me why I use Slime
tubes:

http://i18.tinypic.com/2gtpxd2.jpg

http://i16.tinypic.com/44td0dx.jpg

I must have leaned over just a little too far in just the wrong place
in a turn yesterday and caught a goathead, but the rear tire tube held
pressure overnight.

Cheers,

CarlFogel

Aaargh! Summer starts with 25th flat in 137 rides.

Same story, despite changing from tan to black sidewalls.

The rear tire's Slime tube held pressure overnight after I leaned over
too far somewhere yesterday and picked up another goathead:

http://i11.tinypic.com/5400w3q.jpg

http://i10.tinypic.com/6f6n0yf.jpg

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

You need this :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230078624719

BONUS !! I will sell you a set (black or clear) for only $12 shipped.
Email me for details. That Neil O. Murphy guy is greediness
personified. It was a $4 item at www.loosescrews.com until recently!!

NOTE: for these to work well, you need to install them so that they
push _as hard as possible_ on the tires. You should bend the little
wires so that the rubber tubing is pointing almost directly at the
tire (it needs to spread a little bit so as not to hit the tire.) The
rubber tubing will take nearly a 90 degree bend just before the wire
part hits the tire.

Don't believe sheldonbrown.com on this subject, these absolutely work
wonders in areas where there is much broken glass or other types of
abrasives that can work their way through tire casings in a few
minutes worth of riding.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Even thorns very seldom make it all the way through a tire casing on
the 1st revolution. Thorns take a few revolutions to puncture the
tire and casing. A tire saver stops these of flat tires almost
completely, leaving snake-bites (bottoming) and massive trauma (riding
over a bed of nails) as the only thing capable of producing a flat
tire ...

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA

Donald Gillies said:

You need this :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230078624719

Quoted message said:

BONUS !! I will sell you a set (black or clear) for only $12
shipped. Email me for details. That Neil O. Murphy guy is
greediness personified. It was a $4 item at www.loosescrews.com
until recently!!

Quoted message said:

NOTE: for these to work well, you need to install them so that they
push _as hard as possible_ on the tires. You should bend the little
wires so that the rubber tubing is pointing almost directly at the
tire (it needs to spread a little bit so as not to hit the tire.)
The rubber tubing will take nearly a 90 degree bend just before the
wire part hits the tire.

Quoted message said:

Don't believe sheldonbrown.com on this subject, these absolutely
work wonders in areas where there is much broken glass or other
types of abrasives that can work their way through tire casings in a
few minutes worth of riding.

I'm sure you never picked up a puncture vine barb and had a tire-saver
pull out a thorn without letting air out, nor over a freshly smashed
bottle. With the weight of a rider such sharp objects get pressed in
deep enough to penetrate the first time, the leak in the tube
sometimes needing a little longer.

There are good reasons why these devices vanished from bicycle store
shelves, one which is that they don't work. Another is that the rider
with the tire savers is the guy with the dirty clothes (on damp days.)

Jobst Brandt

Donald Gillies said:

Even thorns very seldom make it all the way through a tire casing on
the 1st revolution. Thorns take a few revolutions to puncture the
tire and casing. A tire saver stops these of flat tires almost
completely, leaving snake-bites (bottoming) and massive trauma
(riding over a bed of nails) as the only thing capable of producing
a flat tire ...

Again, you seem not to have much thorn experience. All my thorn flats
had knocked off the body at the first revolution leaving a practically
flush thorn that caused a slow leak. Your tire save would knock off
the body of the barb without affecting its thorn penetration.

Jobst Brandt

On 21 Jun 2007 21:20:33 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

There are good reasons why these devices vanished from bicycle store
shelves, one which is that they don't work. Another is that the rider
with the tire savers is the guy with the dirty clothes (on damp days.)

Jobst Brandt

Dear Jobst,

True.

Tire savers haven't been available commercially in this century, and
riders complained about the grime on damp days.

The rider with the tire savers is also the guy coughing his lungs out
when he tucks in on a dry but dusty 2-mile descent. I gave up on them
after a single ride, even though I'd spent a ridiculous amount of time
fashioning a tire saver that would fit a modern 700c tire and fork.

Frank Krygowski generously mailed me some NOS tiresavers, but I had to
make my own out of thinner spoke wire, since the old production model
tire-savers like the ones that Frank generously sent me are thicker
than spoke wire and well-nigh impossible to re-bend to fit narrow
modern tires in narrow modern forks.

Frank was curious whether the tire savers would stop much broader
chips of rock and glass, which _might_ take several spins to cut
deeper into a tire.

But goatheads are so sharp and pointy that the only thing that really
seems to matter is the length of the thorn and the angle. I dig lots
of thorn tips out of my tires that were simply too short or else
entered at too great an angle to reach the inner tube.

Here's the offending goathead, removed from the tire and posing next
to three needles and a ruler:

http://i13.tinypic.com/66t55zk.jpg

Here's what happens when you place a typical goathead against a Mr.
Tuffy strip and tap it once gently with a hammer:

http://i17.tinypic.com/4xzduuu.jpg

The blunting is not from going through the tough plastic tire
protector or the anti-static mat on which the experiment was
conducted. The thorn tip went through them both and hit the wooden
workbench.

Tires inflated to 100+ psi with over 200 pounds of bike and rider
doing anywhere from 10 to 40 mph will hit goatheads on pavement harder
than a gentle hammer tap against rubber matting.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

I'm sure you never picked up a puncture vine barb and had a tire-saver
pull out a thorn without letting air out, nor over a freshly smashed
bottle. With the weight of a rider such sharp objects get pressed in
deep enough to penetrate the first time, the leak in the tube
sometimes needing a little longer.

There are good reasons why these devices vanished from bicycle store
shelves, one which is that they don't work. Another is that the rider
with the tire savers is the guy with the dirty clothes (on damp days.)

They sure seemed to help when I tried them. I thought at the time
that most or all of my flats were coming from thorns. The problem did
seem to go away abruptly when I added the tire savers.

Doug