Pre-diabetic

Patricia1966wa wrote in message ... I have went to classes
for my diabetes and they have said over and over there is no
such thing a pre diabetic, you either are or your not.... I
don't understand a pre diabetic, do you think it means
people at risk for being a diabetic?" I also learned once
you have diabetes you will always be a diabetic... But you
can control the blood sugars and be med free..... so I get
confused when I hear pre diabetic...

Go take a look at the initial charts in:

The Progression and Natural History of Type 2 Diabetes

A very good speech to doctors by an Endo, given at the 2001
ADA convention. presented at the URL shown below.

medscape.com145Open ↗

Pay special attention to charts 6, 9 and 10. In general, the
disease is causing severe damage to your beta cells and
other parts of the body for 10 years or so before anybody
notices high blood sugars.

Thus, there is a lot of room for confusion. When exactly do
you have diabetes? The Figures in that Speech suggest that
you have it 10 years before anybody notices, but that's not
a useful definition for the doctors and the insurance
companies. They want easily-observed symptoms like high bG.
Thus, they have committees of doctors produce arbitrary and
capricious definitions of high blood sugar and normal blood
sugar and "pre-diabetic" blood sugar.

Wait a few years and today's "pre-diabetic" could easily be
tomorrow's "full-blown diabetes". On the other hand, 20
years ago, folks were walking around with bG that we
consider horrible today, but which their docs had described
as "normal"

Once you are in the Standard Type 2 Diabetes Progression,
you will progress to loss of blood sugar control, a need for
meds, and finally a need for insulin injections as the
disease progresses. There's no real escaping it; if you have
the Type 2 genes and they are active, you will develop the
disease. One might even say you've had it since childhood.

Your goal is to make changes in diet, exercise, abdominal
fat level and other lifestyle conditions to fight the
effects of those genes so that the difficulties with blood
sugar come later rather than sooner. You would prefer that
you don't "need meds" until your 90th birthday, and finally
need insulin on your 120th birthday so you work now to
approach those goals.

Regards
Old Al

.

Patricia1966wa said:

I have went to classes for my diabetes and they have
said over and over there is no such thing a pre
diabetic, you either are or your not.... I don't
understand a pre diabetic, do you think it means people
at risk for being a diabetic?" I also learned once you
have diabetes you will always be a diabetic... But you
can control the blood sugars and be med free..... so I
get confused when I hear pre diabetic....

The term "pre-diabetes" is one that has wobbled in
and out of fashion.

In the old days, you got diagnosed as diabetic with
a fasting at 140. As your insulin resistance
increased and as your pancreas failed, your numbers
would gradually increase toward 140. And doctors
called that pre-diabetic. And after you crossed the
140 threshold, my tell you directly that you had
diabetes or he might try to avoid getting you mad at
him by softening it with "you've got a touch of
diabetes."

Some time after that, they sort of reclassified it.
They decided that "pre-diabetes" was a bad way to
describe it, I guess perhaps because some people
became "pre-diabetic" but never went on to becoming
diabetic. So they came up with a new term for it.
They called that gray zone between a fasting of 110
and 140 as "Glucose Intolerant." That way they had a
deal with the people permanently in that condition.
And since "pre-diabetic" was suddenly an old
fashioned term, they could berate us that "there's
no such thing as pre-diabetes."

I became diabetic during this period and accepting
the new church doctrine, I repeated the mantra each
night at bedtime with my prayers, "There is no pre-
diabetes There is no pre-diabetes There is no pre-
diabetes There is no pre-diabetes."

And then, presto chango, Bush is president and his
health agencies suddenly discovered that there was a
terrible plague of diabetes sweeping the land which
no one had ever noticed before and the knew the best
possible way to deal with it was to make every
citizen paranoid that he was going to die soon, so
they warned us that there are millions of "pre-
diabetics" out there who need to change their
ways...... And so here we are, telling each other
that we're pre-diabetic again.

That's it today. Check back in five years.

E (sticking finger in air to test
direction of wind)

"Patricia1966wa" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]... I have
went to classes for my diabetes and they have said over and
over there is no such thing a pre diabetic, you either are
or your not.... I don't understand a pre diabetic, do you
think it means people at risk for being a diabetic?" I also
learned once you have diabetes you will always be a
diabetic... But you can control the blood sugars and be med
free..... so I get confused when I hear pre diabetic....

No more than many of us Patricia. Like you say, you either
is or you isn't, but the term "pre-diabetic" seems to be
used more and more where there's an intolerance to glucose.
To me, that's someone who's diabetic, because if you don't
have an intolerance to glucose, you're not ever going to see
BG numbers in the diabetic range.

Once you overstep the line that's drawn between "us and
them", you're one of us. Maybe not ALL BG readings are above
that line, but enough for you to think "diabetic" and do
what's necessary to stay under the line.

Beav

Patricia1966wa said:

I have went to classes for my diabetes and they have
said over and over there is no such thing a pre
diabetic, you either are or your not.... I don't
understand a pre diabetic, do you think it means people
at risk for being a diabetic?" I also learned once you
have diabetes you will always be a diabetic... But you
can control the blood sugars and be med free..... so I
get confused when I hear pre diabetic....

Diabetes and pre-diabetes (or IGT) are clearly the same
thing, differing only in degree.

The distinction is for purposes of treatment and insurance.
With pre-diabetes they warn you to watch your eating but
they don't want to pay for any treatment or drugs. My sister
has good fasting blood sugars but she can spike over 200.
Kaiser won't give her meds. The doctor is giving her minimal
(250 mg) metformin but even that is "off-label" (unapproved)
to Kaiser.

At the same time, being pre-diabetic is an advantage,
because once you're officially diagnosed as a diabetic, it's
a [censored] to ever get insurance again.

Jon

"Patricia1966wa" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]... I have
went to classes for my diabetes and they have said over and
over there is no such thing a pre diabetic, you either are
or your not.... I don't understand a pre diabetic, do you
think it means people at risk for being a diabetic?" I also
learned once you have diabetes you will always be a
diabetic... But you can control the blood sugars and be med
free..... so I get confused when I hear pre diabetic....

Pre-diabetes is what they used to call impaired glucose
tolerance. It means that your BG is higher than normal, but
not as high as diabetes. However, they keep lowering the
threshold for diabetes and I suspect that one day soon there
will be no such thing as pre-diabetes. Those people will
probably be told that they too have diabetes.

You are right that diabetes does not go away, exceptions
being diabetes that was brought on by medication such as
prednisone. In some cases, that type of diabetes can go
away, but it doesn't always.

As for medication, some people don't need to take it. Some
do. Whether you do or you don't is no bearing on you or how
hard you are working to control
it. It's all a matter of how well your body is functioning.

--
Type 2 users.bestweb.net~jboveOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>,

Patricia1966wa said:

I have went to classes for my diabetes and they have
said over and over there is no such thing a pre
diabetic, you either are or your not.... I don't
understand a pre diabetic, do you think it means people
at risk for being a diabetic?" I also learned once you
have diabetes you will always be a diabetic... But you
can control the blood sugars and be med free..... so I
get confused when I hear pre diabetic....

Just mentally substitute the words "early diabetic." That's
what it really i.

Priscilla

thank you very much. I will read this. I have read what
you wrote. I thought I was diabetic fo years long
before I was dx.

Patricia "oldal4865" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Patricia1966wa wrote in message ... I have went to classes
for my diabetes and they have said over and over there is
no such thing a pre diabetic, you either are or your
not.... I don't understand a pre diabetic, do you think it
means people at risk for being a diabetic?" I also learned
once you have diabetes you will always be a diabetic...
But you can control the blood sugars and be med free.....
so I get confused when I hear pre diabetic...

Go take a look at the initial charts in:

The Progression and Natural History of Type 2 Diabetes

A very good speech to doctors by an Endo, given at the
2001 ADA convention. presented at the URL shown below.

medscape.com145Open ↗

Pay special attention to charts 6, 9 and 10. In general,
the disease is causing severe damage to your beta cells
and other parts of the body for 10 years or so before
anybody notices high blood sugars.

Thus, there is a lot of room for confusion. When exactly
do you have diabetes? The Figures in that Speech suggest
that you have it 10 years before anybody notices, but
that's not a useful definition for the doctors and the
insurance companies. They want easily-observed symptoms
like high bG. Thus, they have committees of doctors
produce arbitrary and capricious definitions of high
blood sugar and normal blood sugar and "pre-diabetic"
blood sugar.

Wait a few years and today's "pre-diabetic" could easily
be tomorrow's "full-blown diabetes". On the other hand, 20
years ago, folks were walking around with bG that we
consider horrible today, but which their docs had
described as "normal"

Once you are in the Standard Type 2 Diabetes Progression,
you will progress to loss of blood sugar control, a need
for meds, and finally a need for insulin injections as the
disease progresses. There's no real escaping it; if you
have the Type 2 genes and they are active, you will
develop the disease. One might even say you've had it
since childhood.

Your goal is to make changes in diet, exercise, abdominal
fat level and other lifestyle conditions to fight the
effects of those genes so that the difficulties with blood
sugar come later rather than sooner. You would prefer that
you don't "need meds" until your 90th birthday, and
finally need insulin on your 120th birthday so you work
now to approach those goals.

Regards
Old Al

.

wow. now I am getting it. Thanks.

Patricia "Eldritch" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Patricia1966wa said:

I have went to classes for my diabetes and they have
said over and over there is no such thing a pre
diabetic, you either are or your not.... I don't
understand a pre diabetic, do you think it means people
at risk for being a diabetic?" I also learned once you
have diabetes you will always be a diabetic... But you
can control the blood sugars and be med free..... so I
get confused when I hear pre diabetic....

The term "pre-diabetes" is one that has wobbled in and out
of fashion.

In the old days, you got diagnosed as diabetic with a
fasting at 140. As your insulin resistance increased and
as your pancreas failed, your numbers would gradually
increase toward 140. And doctors called that pre-diabetic.
And after you crossed the 140 threshold, my tell you
directly that you had diabetes or he might try to avoid
getting you mad at him by softening it with "you've got a
touch of diabetes."

Some time after that, they sort of reclassified it. They
decided that "pre-diabetes" was a bad way to describe it,
I guess perhaps because some people became "pre-diabetic"
but never went on to becoming diabetic. So they came up
with a new term for it. They called that gray zone between
a fasting of 110 and 140 as "Glucose Intolerant." That way
they had a deal with the people permanently in that
condition. And since "pre-diabetic" was suddenly an old
fashioned term, they could berate us that "there's no such
thing as pre-diabetes."

I became diabetic during this period and accepting the new
church doctrine, I repeated the mantra each night at
bedtime with my prayers, "There is no pre-diabetes There
is no pre-diabetes There is no pre-diabetes There is no
pre-diabetes."

And then, presto chango, Bush is president and his health
agencies suddenly discovered that there was a terrible
plague of diabetes sweeping the land which no one had ever
noticed before and the knew the best possible way to deal
with it was to make every citizen paranoid that he was
going to die soon, so they warned us that there are
millions of "pre-diabetics" out there who need to change
their ways...... And so here we are, telling each other
that we're pre-diabetic again.

That's it today. Check back in five years.

E (sticking finger in air to test direction of wind)

different perspective but I can see your point. Thanks for
taking time to write... Thinking to self, keep your
insurance, Patricia ....

"JonK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Patricia1966wa said:

I have went to classes for my diabetes and they have
said over and over there is no such thing a pre
diabetic, you either are or your not.... I don't
understand a pre diabetic, do you think it means people
at risk for being a diabetic?" I also learned once you
have diabetes you will always be a diabetic... But you
can control the blood sugars and be med free..... so I
get confused when I hear pre diabetic....

Diabetes and pre-diabetes (or IGT) are clearly the same
thing, differing only in degree.

The distinction is for purposes of treatment and
insurance. With pre-diabetes they warn you to watch your
eating but they don't want to pay for any treatment or
drugs. My sister has good fasting blood sugars but she can
spike over 200. Kaiser won't give her meds. The doctor is
giving her minimal (250 mg) metformin but even that is "off-
label" (unapproved) to Kaiser.

At the same time, being pre-diabetic is an advantage,
because once you're officially diagnosed as a diabetic,
it's a [censored] to ever get insurance again.

Jon

I waffled a bit before joining this particular fray (the
mere term "pre-diabetes" seems to evoke a lot of teeth-
gnashing & apoplexy)....

the much-reviled ADA does have a section on pre-d at diabetes.orgpreOpen ↗
diabetes.jsp There is also something from the NIH at http:/-
/diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/insulinresistance/index.htm
Info on diagnostic levels, etc. at
diabetes.niddk.nih.govindex.htmOpen ↗ bj

"bj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I waffled a bit before joining this particular fray (the
mere term "pre-diabetes" seems to evoke a lot of teeth-
gnashing & apoplexy)....

the much-reviled ADA does have a section on pre-d at diabetes.orgpreOpen ↗
diabetes.jsp There is also something from the NIH at htt-
p://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/insulinresistance/ind-
ex.htm Info on diagnostic levels, etc. at diabete-diabete-Open ↗
s.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/diagnosis/index.htm bj

Thanks, bj. I started to post these and faltered, thinking I
might be eaten alive! As was pointed out earlier, these may
be arbitrary and capricious, and even politically motivated,
but humans love to build frameworks so they can plug and
chug, don't they?!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have went to classes for my diabetes and they have
said over and over there is no such thing a pre
diabetic, you either are or your not.... I don't
understand a pre diabetic, do you think it means people
at risk

for

Quoted message said:

being a diabetic?

Several programs on TV recently about pre-diabetes. No one
ever used that expression with me. I was "diabetic" when
diagnosed. Had they use pre-diabetic, I would have gotten
the wake up call much earlier. Betty.

"BMoss69893" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There is also something from the NIH at diabetes.-diabetes.-Open ↗
niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/insulinresistance/index.htm

They have a good BMI Index (Body Mass Index) on this web
site. I printed

it out and will make copies to take to my TOPS chapter.
We have some who really need it, including me. I seem to
be about still about 10 pounds overweight. Already lost
45. Betty.

Good for you! bj

How are you loosing it?

Patricia "BMoss69893" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There is also something from the NIH at
diabetes.niddk.nih.goviOpen ↗
ndex.htm

They have a good BMI Index (Body Mass Index) on this web
site. I printed it out and will make copies to take to my
TOPS chapter. We have some who really need it, including
me. I seem to be about still about 10 pounds overweight.
Already lost 45. Betty.