Prat Warning

Mark McN [email hidden]
opined the following...

Quoted message said:

A genuine 2k would be more than adequate for amplifying a
voice in a thousand-seater hall. (Years ago I heard a
rough rule of thumb of 1W per seat.) But I've never been
able to understand amplifier ratings, either pro or the
inflated claims of Dixons/Halfrauds/whatever stuff.
There'll doubtless be a website somewhere, if I get
sufficiently interested!

The relationship between wattage of amp and volume of
produced noise depends hugely on the amp itself, impedance
of the speakers and efficiency of the speakers. Given that
the P.A. that we used to use at university was a nominal
22kW, that I used to regularly see a 30kW, and that values
in excess of these are often given, 2kW in a car seems quite
plausible.

1W per seat sounds like a very dubious rule of thumb. The
choice of P.A. style and power depends largely on what you
are trying to achieve with
it. Large subwoofers will require more energy to drive them
(More speaker to move) so a system with such speakers
will usually have a large amplifier in order to balance
the sub with the rest of the range.

Jon

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 20:00:52 +0100, Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Given that the P.A. that we used to use at university was a
nominal 22kW, that I used to regularly see a 30kW, and that
values in excess of these are often given, 2kW in a car
seems quite plausible.

On the other hand, a pair of bog-standard Quad 405 amps
(100W) was sufficient for a 200+ seat film theatre replete
with stery dolbeo :-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

in message <[email hidden]>, Jon Senior

jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk ('') said:

Simonb [email hidden] opined
the following...

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

And the blue lights under the car to illuminate the
road surface. _Most_ necessary.

I saw 'XR3i' in big, white, 20cm letters on a
_windscreen_ the other day.

I might get 'Polo L' for mine. You know, just in case
anyone was wondering.

Always fancied getting to one of these cars when it was
parked up, or in the garage (having an even bigger exhaust
fitted!), and putting an enormous transfer on it that
reads "Small knob".

My significant others refers to such vehicles as 'willie
shrivellers'. You might try it.

Quoted message said:

And on that note, I did appreciate the (hopefully) tongue-in-
cheek humour of the genuine sports car with registration
PEN 1 S (Or some variant thereof).

There was a publican of a drinking dive in the West Bow in
my youth who drove around in a white Ferrari with the
registration number '50BER'. Mind you, in the same period
one of Edinburgh's drug squad drove arounf in a convertible
white Triumph Vitesse with a pink flying pig painted on each
door. As the car was exceedingly well known it scarcely
counted as 'plain clothes'.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

See one nuclear war, you've seen them all.

Reply to

Quoted message said:

1W per seat sounds like a very dubious rule of thumb. The
choice of P.A. style and power depends largely on what you
are trying to achieve with
it.

Indeed. That would prolly have referred only to straight
theatre - rock amplification is another matter altogether -
but I've never been a sound engineer. As a colleague of mine
said, it all comes in unfeasibly heavy boxes, and they only
use girly single phase. ;-)

(Which reminds me, I remember hearing of the drummer with
some major band or other demanding and getting 64k of
monitors, though that's approaching Spinal Tap territory.)

--
Mark, UK. We hope to hear him swear, we love to hear him
squeak, We like to see him biting fingers in his horny beak.

Just zis Guy, you know? [email hidden] opined
the following...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 20:00:52 +0100, Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Given that the P.A. that we used to use at university was
a nominal 22kW, that I used to regularly see a 30kW, and
that values in excess of these are often given, 2kW in a
car seems quite plausible.

On the other hand, a pair of bog-standard Quad 405 amps
(100W) was sufficient for a 200+ seat film theatre replete
with stery dolbeo :-)

Matched to suitably high quality and well-placed speakers
I presume. A similar pair of Quad 405s currently drives a
pair of Bose 801s at work and constitutes my work hi-fi.
It is frequently drowned out by the radio from the
adjacent workshop.

Jon (Who works in the sound and lighting industry and plays
with this stuff a lot!)

in message <[email hidden]>, David Hansen

(') said:

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 15:32:09 +0100 someone who may be "Just
zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm sure the Human Rights Act would cause problems with
the television bit.

No, it only applies to humans.

Sadly not. A number of companies have claimed that their
human rights have been infringed. The most famous example
is probably Lafarge, in connection with the "superquarry"
in Harris.

<macenroe> You _cannot_ be serious! </macenroe>

Please say you're not!

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

;; may contain traces of nuts, bolts or washers.

Reply to

Quoted message said:

Jon (Who works in the sound and lighting industry and
plays with this stuff a lot!)

I was beginning to think you might!

At work our f.o.h. rig consists of four Bose 802s driven by
HH V500s. It's over fifteen years old now, and has
occasionally been described as "adequate", depending on its
purpose and whether there's anything better available. ;-)

--
Mark, UK. We hope to hear him swear, we love to hear him
squeak, We like to see him biting fingers in his horny beak.

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 20:40:41 +0100, Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On the other hand, a pair of bog-standard Quad 405 amps
(100W) was sufficient for a 200+ seat film theatre
replete with stery dolbeo :-)

Quoted message said:

Matched to suitably high quality and well-placed speakers
I presume.

Of course. Tannoy all round, IIRC, with large cabinets for
the left, right and centre channels, and lots of little ones
for the surround.

We had the upholstery changed once and it took a day to
rebalance the Dolby...

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Mark McN [email hidden]
opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Reply to

Quoted message said:

Jon (Who works in the sound and lighting industry and
plays with this stuff a lot!)

I was beginning to think you might!

At work our f.o.h. rig consists of four Bose 802s driven
by HH V500s. It's over fifteen years old now, and has
occasionally been described as "adequate", depending on
its purpose and whether there's anything better
available. ;-)

We've just acquired a rather funky new PA. D&B Q-system.
Dinky little lightweight boxes. Matched amplifiers, and
stonkingly loud.

But I'm technically a lampy so probably shouldn't get
excited by this stuff!

Jon

Mark McN said:

That's if you can hear the exhaust over the 120 bpm being
put out by 2kW of bass bins...

I once wondered whether joining in with a decent sound
system playing Vivaldi or something would be conisered
polite. There are some quite good classics for outdoor
performance.

- Richard

--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard dot Corfield at ntlworld dot
com _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street, _/
_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ Except in the Twilight Zone.

Terry D said:

Last time I saw a genuine 1kW (might have been 1.5 kW
actually) r.m.s. audio amplifier was way back in the 60's.
It was the size of a phone box and supplied the whole of
Mansfield with the Light Programme. Try putting two of
them in the back of a Fiesta!

They seem to have got smaller, and will fit into a standard
rack system. I've done well enough with 2*150W in a
reasonable sized auditorium though.

I'm not sure a car electrical system would provide 1.5kW, or
even 3kW if the amplifier's 50% efficient, for any period of
time. In that respect, it could be a bit like the "200W car
speakers", wired with 500mW bell wire into a 4W PMPO
amplifier. "My speakers are 200W".

I suppose what you need to compete is a long wheel base van
or Landrover, a small generator (gas turbine perhaps) or
lots a battery, and a decent stage amplifier and speakers.
Industrial ear defenders may also help.

- Richard

--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard dot Corfield at ntlworld dot
com _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street, _/
_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ Except in the Twilight Zone.

Jon Senior said:

Matched to suitably high quality and well-placed speakers
I presume. A similar pair of Quad 405s currently drives a
pair of Bose 801s at work and constitutes my work hi-fi.
It is frequently drowned out by the radio from the
adjacent workshop.

The theatre I mentioned in a previous post was nice for
that. It had a steep rake auditorium, proper tiling on the
walls, and a big wooden sounding board at the top of the
proscenium arch.

The village hall I do village panto work in at the moment,
on the other hand, has smooth plastered walls and a high
semicircular cross section roof. The stage is a box bolted
onto the end. The pantos are fun though.

- Richard

--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard dot Corfield at ntlworld dot
com _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street, _/
_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ Except in the Twilight Zone.

Reply to Richard Corfield

Quoted message said:

I once wondered whether joining in with a decent sound
system playing Vivaldi or something would be conisered
polite. There are some quite good classics for outdoor
performance.

Confession: in my plukey youth I myself put Big Speakers on
the back shelf and drove around playing loud music; but it
was mostly classical. Bach organ music would do the job of
annoying other yoofs who were trying to listen to heavy
metal in the next car, but now that I've reached some
measure of maturity, I'd never condone such disgraceful
practices, natch.

One of the more surreal experiences of my life occurred a
couple of years ago, being driven around North Carolina by
my common-law- brother-in-law. A true Southern Gentleman, he
would genuinely flinch if anybody took the name of The Lord
in vain, but saw nothing wrong in taking the doors off his
jeep, firing up the six-speaker Bose system, and treating
the rest of the world to seeklyrics.comHotOpen ↗
Dog.html at an awesome volume.

--
Mark, UK. We hope to hear him swear, we love to hear him
squeak, We like to see him biting fingers in his horny beak.

"Vince" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

1 - astonishment subsequently decreased after witnessing
a different Mrs. Prat asking the cashier in my local
Sainsbury's whether they sold Prat-Flags. Mercifully,
they did not.

A lot of people here seem to have real problems with the
English flag. Why is that?

There is no problem with the flag per se.

The problem is with cars flying the flag.

White van Bad. White van flying flag Worse.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

Reply to Richard Corfield

Quoted message said:

The theatre I mentioned in a previous post was nice for
that. It had a steep rake auditorium, proper tiling on the
walls, and a big wooden sounding board at the top of the
proscenium arch.

Sounds like the Edwardian opera house I work in. Matcham
knew what he was doing with acoustics and sight lines, even
if he didn't know a thing about providing a decent mixer
position. ;-)

Quoted message said:

The pantos are fun though.

Pantos are always fun. <Audience> Oh, no, they're not!
</Audience>

--
Mark, UK. We hope to hear him swear, we love to hear him
squeak, We like to see him biting fingers in his horny beak.

Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> wrote in news:lrrep1-0u2.ln1
@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk:

Quoted message said:

There was a publican of a drinking dive in the West Bow in
my youth who drove around in a white Ferrari with the
registration number '50BER'

I remember that one (which wasn't *that* long ago, I hope
you're fairly young Simon). Apparently he (or a subsequent
owner) sold the registration as he was sick of getting
pulled over by the police to be breathalysed.

Graeme

Mark McN <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

A true Southern Gentleman, he would genuinely flinch if
anybody took the name of The Lord in vain, but saw nothing
wrong in taking the doors off his jeep, firing up the six-
speaker Bose system, and treating the rest of the world to
seeklyrics.comHot Dog.htmlOpen ↗
at an awesome volume.

Those lyrics are f***ing disgusting!

;-)

Graeme

Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> wrote in news:t3sep1-0u2.ln1
@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk:

Quoted message said:

You mean 'Perceived Order of Social Hierarchy', surely?

Is that one of the explanations for the origin of "posh"?
The one I've heard many times is that it was to do with P&O
cruises travelling past somewhere (in the Med I think) which
one side of the boat (port) had a good view on the way out
and the other side (starboard) had the good view on the way
back, i.e. port out, starboard home.

Graeme

Mark McN said:

Sounds like the Edwardian opera house I work in. Matcham
knew what he was doing with acoustics and sight lines,
even if he didn't know a thing about providing a decent
mixer position. ;-)

It was the Loft Theatre in Leamington Spa. The mixer
position is a room at the back, though there was plumbing in
to run it from the auditorium if needed. The plumbing wasn't
trusted entirely - massive multicore connector to the back
of the patch panel.

Live music wasn't done often, it was mostly theatre with pre-
recorded effects, which is quite a different discipline. The
size and acoustics were good enough that you could probably
get away without amplification for musicians on stage. If I
were to go back and do live music there now, I'd suggest a
smaller (physically, even if it has more channels, the one
fitted is quite roomy) sub mixer in the auditorium.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The pantos are fun though.

Pantos are always fun. <Audience> Oh, no, they're not!
</Audience>

At a recent job interview, I had "So you do panto - oh
no you don't
:-)". The last one involved lots of dalmations. Before that
:it was about
a boy wizard called Parry Hotter, and his friend Hormonie.
This year it should be something more traditional like
Cinderella.

- Richard

--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard dot Corfield at ntlworld dot
com _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street, _/
_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ Except in the Twilight Zone.

Following on from David Hansen's message. . .

Quoted message said:

In the early 1980s I used to comment on how the English
were just about the only people not to know what their own
flag looked like.

Oh. I didn't realise it was a national thing. I just
thought prats needed something to remind them how to sign
their name.

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the exam marking business
failed [email hidden]