Power to weight/FTP

D-Yob said:

I've been training with power for the first time during the past four months. I'm a 40-plus expert class mountain biker. I'm into the second week of my build cycle.

My numbers in the 5-second, 1- and 5-minute power profile tests have steady gone up each month. I'm seeing really nice jumps each month. However, my FTP number has stayed roughly the same the past three months. In July and August, it was 219, and in September 220.

During that time and before, I've steadily lost weight. I was 65.3 kilos when I began my mesocycle at the end of May. I'm now at 59.4. So my FTP profile has been creeping up the past three months despite not cranking out more power during my 20-minute test.

I assume this is FTP progress, but I'm wondering if losing the weight has held my FTP power down some. I feel great at this weight and I might drop another kilo when my race season really cranks up next week (I race in Florida).

In my experience, it's possible to be light enough to compromise FTP, but pretty darned hard. If anything, you'd expect losing muscle mass to hurt your 5-min and 1-min powers, which are more dependent on anaerobic capacity, before it started compromising your FTP. In fact, since you know your anaerobic capacity has improved, your 20-minute power should have improved as well; for your AWC to improve without your 20-minute power improving, you must have lost some hour power.

What kind of training have you been doing? If you've been focusing on FTP, something isn't working. If, on the other hand, you've been focusing more on VO2Max, or even AWC, maybe some FTP work would yield good results. FWIW, I had a somewhat similar experience (great 1-minute and 5-minute power, lousy 20 minute power) after a long (10-day) rest earlier this year.

kmavm said:

In my experience, it's possible to be light enough to compromise FTP, but pretty darned hard. If anything, you'd expect losing muscle mass to hurt your 5-min and 1-min powers, which are more dependent on anaerobic capacity, before it started compromising your FTP. In fact, since you know your anaerobic capacity has improved, your 20-minute power should have improved as well; for your AWC to improve without your 20-minute power improving, you must have lost some hour power.

What kind of training have you been doing? If you've been focusing on FTP, something isn't working. If, on the other hand, you've been focusing more on VO2Max, or even AWC, maybe some FTP work would yield good results. FWIW, I had a somewhat similar experience (great 1-minute and 5-minute power, lousy 20 minute power) after a long (10-day) rest earlier this year.

That's a good point. I've been doing more Vo2max and anaerobic workouts since I entered my build cycle six weeks ago. I haven't been doing as much LT workouts, instead relying on group road and off-road rides to cover that.

For example, last Sunday I competed in a six-hour mountain bike race and got on the podium (third). I didn't do any FTP work that week, figuring my race would cover that.

I think my training is right on target, but I'm just a little surprised my FTP hasn't risen more.

--Dean

D-Yob said:

I think my training is right on target, but I'm just a little surprised my FTP hasn't risen more.

--Dean

If you don't train it, it is going to be pretty flat.

I've been tracking EVERYTHING this year, and my major gains in FT stopped after I started build (Z 5/6/7 work plus racing). I do gain a bit, but less than 10%. For racers, we need to work on high intensity before racing so something has to take 2nd priority. So, work on FT in the off-season and late base because it will hold (but not improve significantly) in build.

This is a good plan, because you cannot build Z5/6/7 and then work on FT without losing z5/6/7 performance. Conversely, build a great foundation of FT and it will hold through competition.

D-Yob said:

I've been training with power for the first time during the past four months. I'm a 40-plus expert class mountain biker. I'm into the second week of my build cycle.

My numbers in the 5-second, 1- and 5-minute power profile tests have steady gone up each month. I'm seeing really nice jumps each month. However, my FTP number has stayed roughly the same the past three months. In July and August, it was 219, and in September 220.

During that time and before, I've steadily lost weight. I was 65.3 kilos when I began my mesocycle at the end of May. I'm now at 59.4. So my FTP profile has been creeping up the past three months despite not cranking out more power during my 20-minute test.

I assume this is FTP progress, but I'm wondering if losing the weight has held my FTP power down some. I feel great at this weight and I might drop another kilo when my race season really cranks up next week (I race in Florida).

Thanks in advance for any advice.

--Dean

Wow, you must be fast; I think just my left leg weighs over 60 kg's...

Meek One said:

Wow, you must be fast; I think just my left leg weighs over 60 kg's...

He may be fast, but 3.6 w/kg is probably not getting him on the podium, other factors are.

If I had those numbers, I'd certainly concentrate more on raising my W than lowering my kg. That said, I think it's difficult to raise FTP during race season.

peterpen said:

He may be fast, but 3.6 w/kg is probably not getting him on the podium, other factors are.

If I had those numbers, I'd certainly concentrate more on raising my W than lowering my kg. That said, I think it's difficult to raise FTP during race season.

Thanks for the reply and advice. I know, watts are everything. I'm going to try and work on raising my FTP when I can during the season, if it can be done. I'll have a break for about a month in the season beginning in December. I can focus on my FTP more then. If not, there's always next season.

--Dean

Dean-

Out of curiousity, what are your current 5sec, 30sec and 5min power numbers?

Meek One said:

Dean-

Out of curiousity, what are your current 5sec, 30sec and 5min power numbers?

5 sec: 937 watts (15.75)

1 min: 472 (7.93)

5 min: 286 (4.81)

--Dean

D-Yob said:

5 sec: 937 watts (15.75)

1 min: 472 (7.93)

5 min: 286 (4.81)

--Dean

Very Nice! 🙂

That said, I think it's difficult to raise FTP during race season.[/QUOTE]
I might be breaching etiquette here and asking a question that is better suited for a new thread. I guess my motto is "commit the crime and ask for forgiveness". [img]cyclingforums.comicon11.gifOpen ↗[/img]

So here are my questions Peter/others...

• Why is it easier to raise FTP during "non-race season"?
  
• Is one better off building FTP during a Base, or Build (J Friel terms from his bible) period, or both? Traditional wisdom says keep intensity low during a Base period.
  
• What FTP-building wkts. would you prescribe to build FTP and how often per week? Is there a progression of intensity & volume over weeks etc. that's worked for you/others? I've seen the extremes (RDO's program for example), but I wonder what's worked for mere mortals.
  

Thanks much in advance for your input.

sheepishly
gene r

LT Intolerant said:

So here are my questions Peter/others...

• Why is it easier to raise FTP during "non-race season"?
  
• Is one better off building FTP during a Base, or Build (J Friel terms from his bible) period, or both? Traditional wisdom says keep intensity low during a Base period.
  
• What FTP-building wkts. would you prescribe to build FTP and how often per week? Is there a progression of intensity & volume over weeks etc. that's worked for you/others? I've seen the extremes (RDO's program for example), but I wonder what's worked for mere mortals.
  

Thanks much in advance for your input.

sheepishly
gene r

Honestly, during race season I spend a decent amount of time preparing for/ recovering from racing. :p I've done ~30 races this year, most of them 3hr road races, and they take a lot out of me. Given that I don't ride 2 days before the race, only do an easy, 'opener' ride the day before, and generally an endurance ride the day after, that leaves me two days/ week for real training. (I take 2 days completely off the bike per week.)

I have yet to train during the transition season with my current coach, but saw significant (10%) gains during last transition season. I did lots of 30' climbs just below FTP, 4x12', 3x15, 2x25 intervals on the flats about 25w below FTP. There wasn't a whole lot of stuff that would translate to traditional 'base,' other than low-cadence climbing, leg speed workouts, one-leg stuff - which really just served to break the monotony and was interspersed with all the 'just below threshold' stuff. As I got closer to race season (which started in February for me) the climbs and intervals would be done at 5 or 10w below FTP, and once racing began, they'd go over it (and decrease in duration.) Those intervals were done 4 or 5 days a week, and would generally increase in duration or # reps each week. This reversed when racing began - intervals getting shorter but more intense as we worked on my 'top end.'

There's no way I'd describe that as an 'off season.' 😉 But it sure seemed to do the trick - I wanted my major peak to happen in the spring and I was flying then. I'm meeting with my current coach next week to plan the next year and we'll see what kind of ideas he has for the transition.

LT Intolerant said:

Why is it easier to raise FTP during "non-race season"?

Because between racing, recovering, and doing race-specific workouts, it's hard to lend as much focus to FT focused work.

LT Intolerant said:

Is one better off building FTP during a Base, or Build (J Friel terms from his bible) period, or both? Traditional wisdom says keep intensity low during a Base period.

Both. If you have lots of time, it's perfectly practical IMHO to build FT with l2/3 work. If you don't, ignore "traditional wisdom" and do plenty of l4 training all winter.

LT Intolerant said:

What FTP-building wkts. would you prescribe to build FTP and how often per week? Is there a progression of intensity & volume over weeks etc. that's worked for you/others? I've seen the extremes (RDO's program for example), but I wonder what's worked for mere mortals.

2x20's are a pretty good standard. 2-3x a week depending on your schedule.

Thanks very much for the insight gents (peter & whoawhoa). Very helpful, as always!

gene r