Power Output at 26 mph

whoawhoa said:

Curious as to how many watts people are putting out at 26 mph. Don't have a power meter, but according to analyticcycling.com I should be bout 280. But that's pretty rough cause of aerodynamics and stuff not factored in.

A plain wattage number without the mass of the rider is kinda pointless unless you just want to know if you can outsprint someone or guestimate time in a flat time trial.

On a flat surface with no wind?

Mass of rider?

Since I can't do 26mph steady state for very long I'm not sure. 🙂

Last week I did a crit and the average speed for forty minutes was 25.9 mph and my average power was 210 watts. I think normalized power was 225 watts. Now if I had been at the front for more than two laps...

That's about 3.0 w/kg.

For me (5'6", 155lbs) in the drops on regular road bike, no aero stuff, flat road no wind - about 300 to 320 watts. it depends on so much though. I've done 26 at 250 watts with a nice tail wind, and I've struggled with a head wind going 13mph at 300 watts....

whoawhoa said:

Curious as to how many watts people are putting out at 26 mph. Don't have a power meter, but according to analyticcycling.com I should be bout 280. But that's pretty rough cause of aerodynamics and stuff not factored in.

It's more than rough; it's essentially meaningless without all the factors known to a reasonable degree. Even if you know your CdA(aerodynamics), factors like wind and grade(even a slight one) will make a significant difference in power.

Since CdA can be tricky to nail down, the best way to measure power without a power meter is to use a steep hill (so that areodynamics is reduced as a factor) of known, constant grade and maintain constant speed and plug the numbers into ac.com!

jws said:

It's more than rough; it's essentially meaningless without all the factors known to a reasonable degree. Even if you know your CdA(aerodynamics), factors like wind and grade(even a slight one) will make a significant difference in power.

Since CdA can be tricky to nail down, the best way to measure power without a power meter is to use a steep hill (so that areodynamics is reduced as a factor) of known, constant grade and maintain constant speed and plug the numbers into ac.com!

To be sure, I've gotten pretty good correllation between ac.com and multiple power taps on several known 1200-1500 climbs where I live just using the default parameters. Power on the flats - forget about it - depends way too much on wind direction unless you have a loop.

Knowing these number is meaningless because that watt number is not your threshold power. If it is, you better look for a Div 3 team to sign up. I have bursted to 900watts at 31 mph for 5 sec. It means nothing because my sprint speed isn't fast enough and I can't even sustain that speed/watts for over a minute. So, is pointless. I may be able to cover attacks but not strong enough to go for a solo breakaway.

whoawhoa said:

Curious as to how many watts people are putting out at 26 mph. Don't have a power meter, but according to analyticcycling.com I should be bout 280. But that's pretty rough cause of aerodynamics and stuff not factored in.

BlueJersey said:

Knowing these number is meaningless because that watt number is not your threshold power. If it is, you better look for a Div 3 team to sign up.

280 W would *not* get you on to a Div 3 team.

Quoted post said:

I have bursted to 900watts at 31 mph for 5 sec. It means nothing because my sprint speed isn't fast enough and I can't even sustain that speed/watts for over a minute. So, is pointless. I may be able to cover attacks but not strong enough to go for a solo breakaway.

no one, including track sprinters and kilo riders (who train to hold on to peak power for as long as possible) can hold their peak power for a minute. In fact peak power declines very rapidly (within a couple of seconds).

being "strong" enough to go for a solo breakaway isn't related to peak power, but to do with sustainable/TT power, which for all humans would be way, way, less than 900 W! And their Div 1/Pro Tour riders who can't reach 900 W!

ric

ric_stern/RST said:

280 W would *not* get you on to a Div 3 team.

So you're saying I should hold off on my call to HealthNet? 😄

PowerPunk said:

So you're saying I should hold off on my call to HealthNet? 😄

not unless you have a mass of about 55 kg

whoawhoa said:

Curious as to how many watts people are putting out at 26 mph. Don't have a power meter, but according to analyticcycling.com I should be bout 280. But that's pretty rough cause of aerodynamics and stuff not factored in.

my imagic is supposed to be way off the mark, but that reports back to me as 280watts or 299.0 at 27mph but thats on a 0.0% with no head or tailwinds and 586 at 34.4mph and 661 at 35.9mph under the same conditions.

ric_stern/RST said:

not unless you have a mass of about 55 kg

That would be about 5 watts/kg. Would that really be enough at threshhold for a D3 team? I'm 70kg and can sustain 315 watts for around 10-15 min. And I'm just now getting to where I feel like I can really participate and make things happen in my cat 4 races. And I've riden with some D3 pros, and all I can do is sit on the back, suffer, and wait for the inevitable.

PowerPunk said:

That would be about 5 watts/kg. Would that really be enough at threshhold for a D3 team?

very much so.

PowerPunk said:

That would be about 5 watts/kg. Would that really be enough at threshhold for a D3 team? I'm 70kg and can sustain 315 watts for around 10-15 min. And I'm just now getting to where I feel like I can really participate and make things happen in my cat 4 races. And I've riden with some D3 pros, and all I can do is sit on the back, suffer, and wait for the inevitable.

Found this over a PezCycling:

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=2534

Interesting reading.

Seems to me there's 5 watts/kg, and there's 5 watts/kg. If that's what these div 3 guys are doing, and I can hold 4.5, then that extra .5 is a HUGE difference. And after reading that article (good read) I think that 5 W/kg they're averaging is different than smooth steady state power. When I hold 315 for 10 to 15 minutes, thats my best fresh effort, keeping the power within a narrow range. These guys are doing it a race pace, which I'm assuming has the power scattered all over the place. I'm guessing the time over which they're averaging 5 W/kg they spend plenty of time over 400 and maybe 500 watts. I know in my races, however puny they are, those spikes just kill me and there are allways valleys as well. I'm guessing that, from what I've experienced, 315 watts smooth controlled effort would be as hard as 250 to 275 race pace, with all of the spikesthat zap the legs.

Also, don't know if anyone has read the cyclesport issue yet. Tom Steele says he knows he has the form to win a race when he can sustain 500 watts for 5 minutes in race conditions. wow.

PowerPunk said:

after reading that article (good read) I think that 5 W/kg they're averaging is different than smooth steady state power. When I hold 315 for 10 to 15 minutes, thats my best fresh effort, keeping the power within a narrow range. These guys are doing it a race pace, which I'm assuming has the power scattered all over the place.

Two words: normalized power. 😄

PowerPunk said:

Seems to me there's 5 watts/kg, and there's 5 watts/kg. If that's what these div 3 guys are doing, and I can hold 4.5, then that extra .5 is a HUGE difference. And after reading that article (good read) I think that 5 W/kg they're averaging is different than smooth steady state power. When I hold 315 for 10 to 15 minutes, thats my best fresh effort, keeping the power within a narrow range. These guys are doing it a race pace, which I'm assuming has the power scattered all over the place. I'm guessing the time over which they're averaging 5 W/kg they spend plenty of time over 400 and maybe 500 watts. I know in my races, however puny they are, those spikes just kill me and there are allways valleys as well. I'm guessing that, from what I've experienced, 315 watts smooth controlled effort would be as hard as 250 to 275 race pace, with all of the spikesthat zap the legs.

Also, don't know if anyone has read the cyclesport issue yet. Tom Steele says he knows he has the form to win a race when he can sustain 500 watts for 5 minutes in race conditions. wow.

Your 10-15min best is not the same as threshold. Keep in mind that threshold can mean many different things, from a lab LT test which would yield a rather low number, to functional tests. Most use 1 hour best power(that's when fresh) or alternatively 2 x 20 interval power that can routinely repeated. I would guess that your hour power would be around 280-290W.

Some use CP testing, like a 3min and 12min test, then applying the CP concept to calculate "critical power". Ric Stern uses MAP, a higher intensity test, and calculates zones accordingly.

These different "thresholds" may seem confusing, but they are all very closely related. The best thing to do is decide which system you want to use, then use it as designed. Don't mix and match systems and don't put much faith in the numbers mentioned in articles or conversations.

acoggan said:

Two words: normalized power. 😄

my rides are done at tempo 165-185bpm: but it looks more along the lines of several TT intervals over 20miles and i drop off when i begin to max my heartrate for the ride 185BPM and bring it down to 165-170bpm back to recover and then pick it backup remaining within my TimeZone. but my last mile is at max speed and max power until i can't sustain it anylonger at thats around 40mph, Since the idea over overload training is to push your body to its limits if you don't it won't respond as you want it to when the time comes....

but my cadence is still always between 85-90rpm but just above steady state heart rate,

jws said:

Your 10-15min best is not the same as threshold. Keep in mind that threshold can mean many different things, from a lab LT test which would yield a rather low number, to functional tests. Most use 1 hour best power(that's when fresh) or alternatively 2 x 20 interval power that can routinely repeated. I would guess that your hour power would be around 280-290W.

Some use CP testing, like a 3min and 12min test, then applying the CP concept to calculate "critical power". Ric Stern uses MAP, a higher intensity test, and calculates zones accordingly.

These different "thresholds" may seem confusing, but they are all very closely related. The best thing to do is decide which system you want to use, then use it as designed. Don't mix and match systems and don't put much faith in the numbers mentioned in articles or conversations.

Sure. I don't really know what my "threshhold" power is, since ther are so many very confusing terms. That's why I just gave what I know I can hold for a given period. And you are more confident about my hour power capabilities than I am. I figured more like 270. I seem to fall off pretty fast. I've only been at this structured training thing for about 18 months, so hopefully my very steep curve will start to flatten out as time goes by.

PowerPunk said:

Sure. I don't really know what my "threshhold" power is, since ther are so many very confusing terms. That's why I just gave what I know I can hold for a given period. And you are more confident about my hour power capabilities than I am. I figured more like 270. I seem to fall off pretty fast. I've only been at this structured training thing for about 18 months, so hopefully my very steep curve will start to flatten out as time goes by.

Yes, comparing your "threshold" to others' is meaningless unless you are using the same definition. And even then you have to consider weight, aerodynamics, your overall profile over different durations, etc.

Here are some good links to get more info:

look at "Power 411":
http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/

check the first 6 items:
http://www.midweekclub.com/articles/

a good forum:
http://lists.topica.com/lists/wattage/read

Andy's QA:
http://home.earthlink.net/~acoggan/quadrantanalysis/index.html

Ric Stern's site:
http://www.cyclecoach.com/

This is where everyone interested in power should start. Ciao and good riding to you, jws

26mph without aero gear on a flat road no wind, would be about 350watts for me.
6'2" 182lbs