I guess maybe I should have posted this question with the question about tire liners. Anyway the guy at the lbs where I bought my tire liners told me to "make sure you put a fair amount of powder in your tire and rim when you install these liners." Now I assume that this would be to keep everything nice and dry and keep things from sticking together right? Or is there some other purpose that I do not know about?
Ken -- A bicycle does get you there and more.... And there is always the thin edge of danger to keep you alert and comfortably apprehensive. Dogs become dogs again and snap at your raincoat; potholes become personal. And getting there is all the fun. ~Bill Emerson, "On Bicycling," Saturday Evening Post, 29 July 1967
I guess maybe I should have posted this question with the question about tire liners. Anyway the guy at the lbs where I bought my tire liners told me to "make sure you put a fair amount of powder in your tire and rim when you install these liners." Now I assume that this would be to keep everything nice and dry and keep things from sticking together right? Or is there some other purpose that I do not know about?
I guess you should have asked the guy at the bicycle shop why he believes this is important. I suspect this is a holdover from the days when cars used inner tubes. Without talcum, tubes would get stuck in tire casings to such a degree that they could not be removed without tearing them and then with great difficulty. That was in the days of bias ply tires that got furiously hot compared to (tubeless) radials that we use today.
Once inflated, a bicycle tire tube does not move in the tire and depending on what sort of liner you use, it doesn't either. There is no purpose for powder in bicycle tires although there are people who use it religiously (faith) just as some people knock on wood and toss salt over their shoulders.
Go back and ask the guy where you can get this powder and why you should do so, and then report back to us.
I guess maybe I should have posted this question with the question about tire liners. Anyway the guy at the lbs where I bought my tire liners told me to "make sure you put a fair amount of powder in your tire and rim when you install these liners." Now I assume that this would be to keep everything nice and dry and keep things from sticking together right? Or is there some other purpose that I do not know about?
Ken
It's to prevent the tire and tube sticking together. However, sticking is not necessarily a bad thing unless they permanently bond, which has never happened to me, and I don't powder. I doubt it is even possible for the tube and tire to permanently bond.
The sticking from lack of powder allegedly results in air leaking more slowly in the case of a puncture, which is a good thing. Also, the lack of powder facilitates applying a patch. Lastly, you are not coated with powder when fixing a puncture. However, using a scented powder might make you smell nicer.
Once inflated, a bicycle tire tube does not move in the tire and depending on what sort of liner you use, it doesn't either. There is no purpose for powder in bicycle tires although there are people who use it religiously (faith) just as some people knock on wood and toss salt over their shoulders.
My thought was that the powder reduces friction between the tire, tube, and liner during installation BEFORE inflation - helping to get everything into proper position. Especially with a Mr. Tuffy because those things don't always want to to where they're supposed to and if they don't they can cause problems. FAQ doesn't address this.
I guess maybe I should have posted this question with the question about tire liners. Anyway the guy at the lbs where I bought my tire liners told me to "make sure you put a fair amount of powder in your tire and rim when you install these liners." Now I assume that this would be to keep everything nice and dry and keep things from sticking together right? Or is there some other purpose that I do not know about?
I guess you should have asked the guy at the bicycle shop why he believes this is important. I suspect this is a holdover from the days when cars used inner tubes. Without talcum, tubes would get stuck in tire casings to such a degree that they could not be removed without tearing them and then with great difficulty. That was in the days of bias ply tires that got furiously hot compared to (tubeless) radials that we use today.
Once inflated, a bicycle tire tube does not move in the tire and depending on what sort of liner you use, it doesn't either. There is no purpose for powder in bicycle tires although there are people who use it religiously (faith) just as some people knock on wood and toss salt over their shoulders.
Go back and ask the guy where you can get this powder and why you should do so, and then report back to us.
Jobst Brandt
I guess I should have checked Sheldons site first because after I posted this question I found your article about why powder is not needed. So from this point on I will not be powdering my tires and tubes.
Ken -- A bicycle does get you there and more.... And there is always the thin edge of danger to keep you alert and comfortably apprehensive. Dogs become dogs again and snap at your raincoat; potholes become personal. And getting there is all the fun. ~Bill Emerson, "On Bicycling," Saturday Evening Post, 29 July 1967
as you know, the tube jiggles not drug hither and yon. jb tried this b4 picture the laminate picture your $145K donzi bashed into the dock whilst you were blotto - last year and now delaminating! is that what's troubling you buddy? probabbbbley not but given two different materials - tube/tire/liner the impact from yon curb distorts each at different rates thus jb's statement actually implies (implies get it implies cool huh!) friction prosecution rests
Once inflated, a bicycle tire tube does not move in the tire and depending on what sort of liner you use, it doesn't either. There is no purpose for powder in bicycle tires although there are people who use it religiously (faith) just as some people knock on wood and toss salt over their shoulders.
Quoted message said:
My thought was that the powder reduces friction between the tire, tube, and liner during installation BEFORE inflation - helping to get everything into proper position. Especially with a Mr. Tuffy because those things don't always want to to where they're supposed to and if they don't they can cause problems. FAQ doesn't address this.
If there is motion between liner and tire casing you have a highly lossy interface. Imagine moving such a strip lengthwise with 100 psi contact. That's like a 400 pound load sliding on a tough strip, considering that the contact patch is about 4 inches long and the strip about an inch wide.
The whole idea is silly. There should be no motion there and adding talcum to aid in its occurrence is not wise. Besides that, you might consider that very few riders use these things and we don't see people all over the roads servicing flat tires. I believe there is an unreasonable fear of flat tires that motivates the liners, thick tread and slimes are used to allay.
As I have said before, people who don't find tools and money on the road are often the ones who have the greatest flat tire problems.
Once inflated, a bicycle tire tube does not move in the tire and depending on what sort of liner you use, it doesn't either. There is no purpose for powder in bicycle tires although there are people who use it religiously (faith) just as some people knock on wood and toss salt over their shoulders.
Quoted message said:
My thought was that the powder reduces friction between the tire, tube, and liner during installation BEFORE inflation - helping to get everything into proper position. Especially with a Mr. Tuffy because those things don't always want to to where they're supposed to and if they don't they can cause problems. FAQ doesn't address this.
If there is motion between liner and tire casing you have a highly lossy interface. Imagine moving such a strip lengthwise with 100 psi contact. That's like a 400 pound load sliding on a tough strip, considering that the contact patch is about 4 inches long and the strip about an inch wide.
The whole idea is silly. There should be no motion there and adding talcum to aid in its occurrence is not wise. Besides that, you might consider that very few riders use these things and we don't see people all over the roads servicing flat tires. I believe there is an unreasonable fear of flat tires that motivates the liners, thick tread and slimes are used to allay.
As I have said before, people who don't find tools and money on the road are often the ones who have the greatest flat tire problems.
Jobst Brandt
Please re-read... I was talking about powder helping with the installation, nothing about relative motion at 100 psig.
I stopped using Mr. Tuffys a while back, even though I KNOW they stopped a few goatheads.
I guess maybe I should have posted this question with the question about tire liners. Anyway the guy at the lbs where I bought my tire liners told me to "make sure you put a fair amount of powder in your tire and rim when you install these liners." Now I assume that this would be to keep everything nice and dry and keep things from sticking together right? Or is there some other purpose that I do not know about?
It's all myth and lore, but you need to pay homage to the myth. The idea is that, given enough powder, the tube will slip past the tire, lessening the rolling resistance. This is bull. As far as tire liners go, it's even worse; I imagine you'd want the tire liner to stick to the tire.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I can _`\(,_ | assure you that mine are all greater. -- A. Einstein (_)/ (_) |
<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
AND WE QUOTE - """""Once inflated, a bicycle tire tube does not move in the tire and depending on what sort of liner you use, it doesn't either."""""
wait one galldarn nitmute there jb does not move does not move does not move
and just how did yawl come by this emprical data? yawl chalked it right?
You wouldn't happen to be a former vulcanist, would you?
Or a Vulcan?
--
David L. Johnson
__o | And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you _`\(,_ | killed all of us? From every corner of Europe, hundreds, (_)/ (_) | thousands would rise up to take our places. Even Nazis can't kill that fast. -- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).
I stopped using Mr. Tuffys a while back, even though I KNOW they stopped a few goatheads.
Sure. Look at the length of the goathead thorn. Look at the thickness of tire, Mr. Tuffy, and tube. Now, how did the tire liner prevent a puncture?
--
David L. Johnson
__o | And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all _`\(,_ | mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so (_)/ (_) | that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. [1 Corinth. 13:2]
I have heard that powder makes changing the tire easier. I have never tried it.
It does. During installation, powder reduces the friction between the tube, tire, and rim/rim tape/strip, making it less likely you will pinch the tube between the the tire bead and the rim.
I guess maybe I should have posted this question with the question about tire liners. Anyway the guy at the lbs where I bought my tire liners told me to "make sure you put a fair amount of powder in your tire and rim when you install these liners." Now I assume that this would be to keep everything nice and dry and keep things from sticking together right? Or is there some other purpose that I do not know about?
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
I guess you should have asked the guy at the bicycle shop why he believes this is important. I suspect this is a holdover from the days when cars used inner tubes. Without talcum, tubes would get stuck in tire casings to such a degree that they could not be removed without tearing them and then with great difficulty. That was in the days of bias ply tires that got furiously hot compared to (tubeless) radials that we use today.
Quoted message said:
Down here in South Texas, where it is often 125 F in the sun, powder in the tire actually does help prevent the tube from becoming bonded to *some* tires to the point where the tube rips when you try to remove it. Folding tires seem to be the most susceptible. Even when you use powder, it can still be somewhat of a challenge to not ruin the tube when removing it if the pair have a few miles on them. You also learn to not leave the bike sitting in the sun down here for more than a few minutes because the tubes will heat up and blow the tire off the rim.
Always these tall Texas tales, and of course anonymously. You wouldn't want to be quoted on such BS. That the tube adheres to the tire is a benefit. Instead of a sudden flat when a puncture or snake bite occurs, a slow leak gradually lets the tire down giving enough time to stop safely. I have had such events a few times on fast descents and made a graceful stop before the tire went completely flat, most recently from a major (two 1/4" slits) pot hole snake bite.
I don't know what type tubes you use but the oldest stuck tubes I have encountered could be pulled out without incident. I've been doing this for a long time and my tires get plenty hot... not from Texas hot air but from braking, that gets temperatures over 150F.
as you know, the tube jiggles not drug hither and yon. jb tried this b4 picture the laminate picture your $145K donzi bashed into the dock whilst you were blotto - last year and now delaminating! is that what's troubling you buddy? probabbbbley not but given two different materials - tube/tire/liner the impact from yon curb distorts each at different rates thus jb's statement actually implies (implies get it implies cool huh!) friction prosecution rests
Turning and turning in the widening gyre The tire cannot grip the tiretube; Things fall apart; the patches cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the whirled.
It's all myth and lore, but you need to pay homage to the myth. The idea is that, given enough powder, the tube will slip past the tire, lessening the rolling resistance. This is bull. As far as tire liners go, it's even worse; I imagine you'd want the tire liner to stick to the tire.
Actually, the myth is true. The problem is that no one uses enough powder. Of course, the fact that the correct amount of powder weighs three ounces per wheel will keep the practice from ever really catching on. Well, that and the environmental and social impact of both the rider and the area turning a ghost-like white while changing a flat tire...
