Powder Coat vs. Wet Paint...

"rosco" <reverse-the-following"ocsor_g"@hotmail.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm considering having a frame repainted with 1 or 2 colors, and I'm trying to decide between the
powder coat process vs. wet paint. If I powder coat, I'll most likely use Spectrum Powder Works
(Colorado Springs), and if I wet paint, I'll probably use Hot Tubes (Worcester, MA). I've been
lead to believe by some that powder coat is a somewhat more durable finish, while others have said
the durability of the two is roughly the same. Since the cost is about the same from these two
refinishers, price isn't the determining factor. Spectrum says they specialize in creating a
powder coat with a wet paint "look". If this is true, the esthetics isn't an issue either. What
experience have you folks had with these two methods?

It depends on what kind of paint Hot Tubes uses. If they use polyurethane like Imron, it's pretty
tough stuff. A good, thick powdercoat is probably tougher, though. Then there's the level of finish.
Powdercoat has traditionally been kind of "industrial" looking, but these days it's really good --
better than most production bike paint jobs. However, the best finishes are still with paint. I
guess it depends on how good you want your bike to look, and how much you're willing to spend.
Powdercoat is usually much cheaper.

Sometimes the best paint jobs can almost look too good -- especially if you don't have top-notch
components in really good condition. A less perfect finish can actually be a better match.

Matt O.

Quoted message said:

It depends on what kind of paint Hot Tubes uses. If they use polyurethane

like

Quoted message said:

Imron, it's pretty tough stuff.

They use PPG urethane paints.

To demonstrate powdercoat, I take a sample tube and whack it on my workstand, producing a dent. then
I carve a curl of clearcoat off the tube. In both cases, no chipping. My former painter also used
PPG urethane and I don't look back. Tom

--
Bruni Bicycles "Where art meets science" brunibicycles.com
410.426.3420 rosco <reverse-the-following"ocsor_g"@hotmail.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It depends on what kind of paint Hot Tubes uses. If they use

polyurethane

Quoted message said:

like

Quoted message said:

Imron, it's pretty tough stuff.

They use PPG urethane paints.

In article <[email hidden]>,
reverse-the-following"ocsor_g"@hotmail.com says...

Quoted message said:

I'm considering having a frame repainted with 1 or 2 colors, and I'm trying to decide between the
powder coat process vs. wet paint. If I powder coat, I'll most likely use Spectrum Powder Works
(Colorado Springs), and if I wet paint, I'll probably use Hot Tubes (Worcester, MA). I've been lead
to believe by some that powder coat is a somewhat more durable finish, while others have said the
durability of the two is roughly the same. Since the cost is about the same from these two
refinishers, price isn't the determining factor. Spectrum says they specialize in creating a powder
coat with a wet paint "look". If this is true, the esthetics isn't an issue either. What experience
have you folks had with these two methods?

powder coat will be more durable. If you are looking for a simple paint scheme, go with the
powder coat.
--------------
Alex

"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

It depends on what kind of paint Hot Tubes uses. If they use polyurethane like Imron, it's pretty
tough stuff. A good, thick powdercoat is probably tougher, though. Then there's the level of
finish. Powdercoat has traditionally been kind of "industrial" looking, but these days it's really
good -- better than most production bike paint jobs. However, the best finishes are still with
paint. I guess it depends on how good you want your bike to look, and how much you're willing to
spend. Powdercoat is usually much cheaper.

Sometimes the best paint jobs can almost look too good -- especially if you don't have top-notch
components in really good condition. A less perfect finish can actually be a better match.

Matt O.

Hi, more questions, than answers. What is used on new bikes. Like the Trek products, LeMond and
Klein? The Kleins I have seen have all had nice finishes, as did the Felts. I would have to agree
that shoddy, worn components, wouldn't look right with a high quality finish. But I would possibly
find myself overly protective of a bike that had a custom paint job. Getting that first nick or
scratch in a new bike or car is always a bummer, but after that, an occasional chip seems a part of
life. Final question, what do these place charge for frame refinishing? I appreciate the info, Jeff

"rosco" <reverse-the-following"ocsor_g"@hotmail.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm considering having a frame repainted with 1 or 2 colors, and I'm

trying

Quoted message said:

to decide between the powder coat process vs. wet paint. If I powder

coat,

Quoted message said:

I'll most likely use Spectrum Powder Works (Colorado Springs), and if I

wet

Quoted message said:

paint, I'll probably use Hot Tubes (Worcester, MA). I've been lead to believe by some that powder
coat is a somewhat more durable finish, while others have said the durability of the two is
roughly the same. Since the cost is about the same from these two refinishers, price isn't the
determining factor. Spectrum says they specialize in creating a powder

coat

Quoted message said:

with a wet paint "look". If this is true, the esthetics isn't an issue either. What experience
have you folks had with these two methods?

There's a shop here in San Marcos that'll powder coat your frame for you for less than $100. They do
all of one of the local builder's frames and I haven't seen a bad one yet.

Whoever Russ Denny uses did a fantastic job on the pearl black powder coat on my track frame...

Pearls, candies, metallics, I've seen some pretty nice samples at the powder coating guy's shops.

Look around locally. You can probably find a shop in your area that'll do as good a job for a
lot less $$.

Mike

"Jeff Starr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi, more questions, than answers. What is used on new bikes. Like the Trek products, LeMond and
Klein? The Kleins I have seen have all had nice finishes, as did the Felts.

It's probably acrylic enamel, like most auto paint -- not nearly as tough as powdercoat or
polyurethane. Boutique frames usually have better paint, often polyurethane. Some are powdercoated,
like the original Bontragers.

Quoted message said:

I would have to agree that shoddy, worn components, wouldn't look right with a high quality
finish. But I would possibly find myself overly protective of a bike that had a custom paint job.
Getting that first nick or scratch in a new bike or car is always a bummer, but after that, an
occasional chip seems a part of life. Final question, what do these place charge for frame
refinishing?

Usually $1-200 for powdercoat, $150-400 and up for polyurethane -- depending on which colors, how
many colors, fades, other designs, and even decals. Here are a couple of links for paint shops, but
there are many, many more:

spectrumpowderworks.comspectrumpowderworks.comOpen ↗

campyonly.comjoebell.htmlOpen ↗

If you have a bike like a Klein or Waterford, you can just send it back to the factory (who in turn
probably sends it to someone like Joe Bell).

Most cities have shops that do powdercoating, for everything from signs to off road truck parts. You
may find a really good deal from a place like that, but a bicycle specialist is likely to do a
better job. Still, I've seen really nice jobs done for $100 or so -- well worth it.

Look for a shop in your home town anyway. Even if it's not cheaper, you'll save a lot on the
shipping charges.

Matt O.

rosco said:

I'm considering having a frame repainted with 1 or 2 colors, and I'm trying to decide between the
powder coat process vs. wet paint. If I powder coat, I'll most likely use Spectrum Powder Works
(Colorado Springs), and if I wet paint, I'll probably use Hot Tubes (Worcester, MA). I've been
lead to believe by some that powder coat is a somewhat more durable finish, while others have said
the durability of the two is roughly the same. Since the cost is about the same from these two
refinishers, price isn't the determining factor. Spectrum says they specialize in creating a
powder coat with a wet paint "look". If this is true, the esthetics isn't an issue either. What
experience have you folks had with these two methods?

I have been very happy with the powder coat on my fixed gear bike, a 30-year old track bike. But you
are talking about a whole different ball game in terms of finishers. Neither of these guys will be
doing $100 paint/powder jobs, will they? For my price range ($100), powder is a much more durable
finish. It also looks great. My bike is a metallic blue with a beautiful luster. You can see it on
fixedgeargallery.comfixedgeargallery.comOpen ↗, #325.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems. _`\(,_ | -- Paul Erdos
(_)/ (_) |

On an episode of "American Chopper", they powder coated a set of aluminum rims with this red, that
turned out really shiny.. almost like an anodized red, but with a really high polish. It looked
amaaaazing. The guy that looks like hulk holgan then said that he prefers powder coating, because
the finish is so much more rich.

By that fact alone, I'd go powder coat 🙂

Mike mikebeauchamp.commikebeauchamp.comOpen ↗

"rosco" <reverse-the-following"ocsor_g"@hotmail.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm considering having a frame repainted with 1 or 2 colors, and I'm

trying

Quoted message said:

to decide between the powder coat process vs. wet paint. If I powder

coat,

Quoted message said:

I'll most likely use Spectrum Powder Works (Colorado Springs), and if I

wet

Quoted message said:

paint, I'll probably use Hot Tubes (Worcester, MA). I've been lead to believe by some that powder
coat is a somewhat more durable finish, while others have said the durability of the two is
roughly the same. Since the cost is about the same from these two refinishers, price isn't the
determining factor. Spectrum says they specialize in creating a powder

coat

Quoted message said:

with a wet paint "look". If this is true, the esthetics isn't an issue either. What experience
have you folks had with these two methods?

Quoted message said:

I have been very happy with the powder coat on my fixed gear bike, a 30-year old track bike. But
you are talking about a whole different ball game in terms of finishers. Neither of these guys
will be doing $100 paint/powder jobs, will they? For my price range ($100), powder is a much more
durable finish. It also looks great. My bike is a metallic blue with a beautiful luster. You can
see it on fixedgeargallery.comfixedgeargallery.comOpen ↗, #325.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems. _`\(,_ | -- Paul Erdos
(_)/ (_) |

That is a very nice job for $100! Who did the paint job? Will the non-bicycle specialty powder
finishers do all the stripping and prep work like Spectrum? Did you go for a powder or wet
clear coat?

The problem is finding a good local powder coater. Universally, all the LBS's recommend Hot Tubes
when you talk about frame painting. No one has a recommendation on the powder coat side.

[email hidden] (Jeff Starr) wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Hi, more questions, than answers. What is used on new bikes. Like the Trek products, LeMond and
Klein? The Kleins I have seen have all had nice finishes, as did the Felts.

A few years back I had a discussion with a PPG factory rep and was told that Klein uses PPG Deltron
paint (polyurethane). The rep was familar since he delt with them on a regular basis. This was back
when Klein was located in the northwest.

Ed

....friend of mine just used Spectrum for a tri-color fade. Very nice and not cheap! Email off-list
and I'll send a .jpg if you want. The powdercoater's here vary in sophistication. Some can do
"candy" colors and fades; others, not! Find a good industrial powdercoater who also does motorcycle
frames and parts and you'll be in business!

Gene Tampa, FL

(Jeff Starr) said:

What is used on new bikes. Like the Trek products, LeMond and Klein? The Kleins I have seen have
all had nice finishes, as did the Felts.

Trek has both powder coat and wet paint lines. Some bikes get a powder coat base color, then the
second color is wet paint. Take a look at some Gary Fisher MTBs for examples.

I think carbon (and bonded aluminum) frames get only wet paint (temperature of powder coat process
too high?).

Generally top of the line bikes get wet paint.

[email hidden] (Jeff Starr) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hi, more questions, than answers. What is used on new bikes. Like the Trek products, LeMond
and Klein?

Not sure I would want to replicate the paint quality on a Lemond. I have a frame that is just over
two years old and the paint is peeling off in sheets. *IF* I keep that frame it will need to be
painted or powdercoated in the near future. Sigh.

- rick

We choose powder coat over paint every day in the machine shop. Customer says it gets used outdoors,
or especially, catches gravel or is used in soil, paint just won't do.

Paint keeps out rain, oil, liquids like that. I admit there are some new paints that are more chip
resistant, but we always pick powder for heavy duty or long life.

Powder is applied electrostatically as a dust and literally melted onto the surface in an oven.

Actually my Glover's Pocket Ref says the "baked enamel" job is the worst of all the car finishes, so
if they say it's just like powder because we bake it, walk don't run.

Yours,

Doug Goncz (at aol dot com) Replikon Research, Seven Corners, VA

1100 original posts at: groups.google.comgroupsOpen ↗

rosco said:

That is a very nice job for $100!

OK, to be specific, it was $150, but that included chrome plating the fork. I could have had it
painted to match for $100 frame and fork.

Quoted message said:

Who did the paint job?

DSG in NE Philly (I think those are the initiails). They mostly do custom motorcycle and hot-rod
jobs. Very demanding clientele.

Quoted message said:

Will the non-bicycle specialty powder finishers do all the stripping and prep work like Spectrum?

Yes

Did you go for a powder or wet clear coat?

All powder.

Quoted message said:

The problem is finding a good local powder coater. Universally, all the LBS's recommend Hot Tubes
when you talk about frame painting. No one has a recommendation on the powder coat side.

Got any friends who ride Harleys?

--

David L. Johnson

__o | And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all _`\(,_ | mysteries, and all
knowledge; and though I have all faith, so (_)/ (_) | that I could remove mountains, and have not
charity, I am nothing. [1 Corinth. 13:2]

Quoted message said:

Got any friends who ride Harleys?

Guess I'll apply some of my kid's press-on tattoos and head for the Harley dealers.

Quoted message said:

"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

-good paint advice, summing up with-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the best finishes are still with paint. -snip- Powdercoat is usually much cheaper.

Jeff Starr said:

Hi, more questions, than answers. What is used on new bikes.

-snip-

Quoted message said:

Final question, what do these place charge for frame refinishing?

I've owned a wide range of bicycles. I've sprayed a lot of cars and many more bicycles, both
repaints and touchups. I do a good number of all-parts-off align/wash/touch up/wax/rebuild on
various bicycles, modern and classic.

I can tell you one thing with certainty.

My black bikes look much better over the long term than anything else. Black is the only color that
touches up acceptably.

Of course if you don't plan on riding the same bike regularly for thirty years that may be less
important to you.

You'll get plenty of advice on other points here I'm sure.
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

-good paint advice, summing up with-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the best finishes are still with paint. -snip- Powdercoat is usually much cheaper.

Jeff Starr said:

Hi, more questions, than answers. What is used on new bikes.

-snip-

Quoted message said:

Final question, what do these place charge for frame refinishing?

I've owned a wide range of bicycles. I've sprayed a lot of cars and many more bicycles, both
repaints and touchups. I do a good number of all-parts-off align/wash/touch up/wax/rebuild on
various bicycles, modern and classic.

I can tell you one thing with certainty.

My black bikes look much better over the long term than anything else. Black is the only color
that touches up acceptably.

Of course if you don't plan on riding the same bike regularly for thirty years that may be less
important to you.

You'll get plenty of advice on other points here I'm sure.

Dear Andrew,

My ill-painted ears just perked up and twitched with interest. So black paint touches up better? I
didn't know this, most of my paint being protected by thick layers of grime, bird droppings, and
muddy cat-paw prints.

The only thing that I knew about paint before this was that black is the worst color from a
manufacturer's point of view, if what I read in Randall Stoss's "Steve Jobs and the NeXT Big Thing"
was true. Among the other impractical things Jobs insisted on (cast magnesium cases with absolutely
no slope to ease extraction) was a flat black paint job that Stoss said showed the slightest
imperfections and even the faint scuffing from travelling in shipping boxes.

He added that car makers saved their very best bodies for black paint because it would show even
minor sheet metal imperfections more than any other color.

But now you've said that black touches up better, and I expect that your experience is considerably
greater than Stoss's.

So do you find that black touches up better, but needs touch-up more often than other colors? Does
Stoss's notion about factory-fresh black being more delicate strike you as true?

And do you have any other painting tid-bits for the chronically curious? Folks like you and Jobst
often fail to realize that what you take for granted and not even worth mentioning fascinates the
rest of us.

Hopefully,

Carl Fogel