Possible Chef scamming my parents...

none said:

And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should
not sit thawed for more than four hours or it goes bad.

The safety and quality issues are separate. Four hours at
chill temp is not a safety issue, but he may expressing his
personal opinion as to quality.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot)
com

Nothing he has said makes me think scam. Other chefs might
disagree with some of his judgments, but a scam makes me
think he would benefit from lying to your parents, and I
don't see that that's the case.

I am not working as a professional chef. I do use frozen
spinach when I make spanakopita at home. I see no difference
in taste, or, if I did, it wouldn't be great enough to make
up for the huge difference in labor. Fresh spinach has to be
cleaned and recleaned. Frozen you just thaw, squeeze out
excess moisture and use.

Fish can be grilled. It does dry it out a bit which is why
one normally grills oily fishes like salmon. This is a
matter of personal taste.

As for storing thawed fish, are you sure you're all talking
about the same thing, that he knows you mean thawing and
storing in the refrigerator? I ask because there are people
who would thaw at room temp, then refrigerate or thaw and
marinate at room temp. He might be thinking that's what your
parents are talking about, and if that's it, he's correct
that the fish should be in the fridge.

--Lia

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] asks:

My folks have hired a chef to help out with their menu, and
I think they're being scammed

Anyway, one staple in Greek cuisine is Spanakopita. it's a
spinich pie type thing. My folks insist they use only fresh
spinich for a richer flavour. This individual argued that
you should not waste your money, and it doesn't make a
difference if you use frozen spinich. Is he correct? I feel
that fresh vegetables have more flavour than frozen.

It's "spinach".

The chef is correct... unless you grow your own and pick it
that day frozen spinach is indeed fresher than any from the
produce market, and unless it's to be eaten uncooked (salad)
then in a cooked dish frozen is *always* better.

Your other two questions are just too fishy... I smell
troll.

Quoted message said:

Furthermore, this "chef" believes that fish should never be
grilled. I'm no expert in fine dining, so I hope someone
around here could tell me if he's correct? I've had grilled
Marlin before and loved it. He insists all fish should only
be pan fried, steamed, or poached. Personally I quite like
grilled Salmon. He insists it comes out too dry.

And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should not
sit thawed for more than four hours or it goes bad. My
folks take the Salmon, thaw it out, and marinade it for a
day in the fridge and then serve it. Now in the old
restaurant, they operated for five years without any major
health violations or incidents. This might be a fallacious
appeal to perpetuitiy, but I think he's just plain wrong. I
mean, you can have chicken sit in the fridge overnight in
marinade, cannot the same hold true for fish?

If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd
really appreciate it.

---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =--- ---= Move
UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without
tribulation." Sheldon ````````````

Quoted message said:

From: "none" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Hi. My folks have hired a chef to help out with their menu,
and I think they're being scammed and I hope someone around
here can point me in the right direction. This chef has
made a few strange comments that I don't believe indicate
his prowess as a chef.

To give some insight, my folks are about to open a Greek
Restaurant (they had one before, but closed down to move to
a new location and get a fresh start). Their menu is
established, but they hope to gain the benefit of a chef to
help trim the rough edges on their menu design. They hired
him to work on prep and menu design, not to be a line cook.

Anyway, one staple in Greek cuisine is Spanakopita. it's a
spinich pie type thing. My folks insist they use only fresh
spinich for a richer flavour. This individual argued that
you should not waste your money, and it doesn't make a
difference if you use frozen spinich. Is he correct? I feel
that fresh vegetables have more flavour than frozen.

Furthermore, this "chef" believes that fish should never be
grilled. I'm no expert in fine dining, so I hope someone
around here could tell me if he's correct? I've had grilled
Marlin before and loved it. He insists all fish should only
be pan fried, steamed, or poached. Personally I quite like
grilled Salmon. He insists it comes out too dry.

And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should not
sit thawed for more than four hours or it goes bad. My
folks take the Salmon, thaw it out, and marinade it for a
day in the fridge and then serve it. Now in the old
restaurant, they operated for five years without any major
health violations or incidents. This might be a fallacious
appeal to perpetuitiy, but I think he's just plain wrong. I
mean, you can have chicken sit in the fridge overnight in
marinade, cannot the same hold true for fish?

If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd
really appreciate it. this guy's a goof, and I think he's
going to take my folks for a ride. I guess in a way it's
like your mechanic telling you what's wrong with your car -
you believe him until you get a second opinion. I guess I'm
just looking for some opinions on these matters.

Thanks so very much in advance for your help.

There must have been a reason that your parents hired this
particular "chef". Do you know what that reason is?

As far as the spinach, I agree with your parent's
"chef". Spanikopita isn't necessarily a high end dish,
and using fresh spinach will be VERY spendy. If it were
me, I'd purchase the highest quality frozen spinach, use
really great feta cheese, good quality onions, filo and
real butter.

Grilled fish is great only if using the freshest fish
possible, not frozen - AND - that is the specialty of the
house, with a huge turnover. I again agree with your
parent's chef. I'd rather dine on previously frozen fish if
pan sautee'd combined with great ingredients and/or
finished off in the oven. It also allows for some nice
crumbing options, including herbs. YUM, I'm thinking feta
cheese crumbed halibut with a reduction of tomatoes with
Kalamatas here.

Poaching is not as much a technique in a restaurant, but
rather a specific preparation for a dish. I'm not getting
the steamed thing at all, unless he's talking about en
papillote which would be cuisine appropriate.

Are you sure he didn't also include "fried"? I know some
superior Greek seafood dishes that are fried and I can't
imagine not having them available.

I also agree with him regarding the marinade thing. Too many
natural juices are lost from previously frozen fish - and
the result will come out dry, even if bathed in wet
ingredients for hours and then cooked wet. It's another
thing altogether to marinate fresh seafood overnight but
that doesn't sound like the problem here.

Sounds to me like this "chef" knows his business and if he
is quirky, big deal. I don't know a "chef" that isn't.

Ellen

"none" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:kJnEc.943987$oR5.736937@pd7tw3no...

Quoted message said:

And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should
not sit thawed for more than four hours or it goes bad.

I think that I would be more concerned about using frozen
fish than using frozen spinach. Spinach is a component in a
rather complex dish. The fish IS the dish. I would save
money on the spinach and buy fresh fish.

none said:

Hi. My folks have hired a chef to help out with their
menu, and I think they're being scammed and I hope someone
around here can point me in the right direction. This chef
has made a few strange comments that I don't believe
indicate his prowess as a chef.

Disregarding your cooking questions, which others have
already addressed, your entire posting is practically
dripping with eagerness to find fault with this guy. There
seems to be an unstated set of facts here, like maybe you're
feeling alienation of affection from your parents. If that's
the case, you gotta get rid of the guy, whether or not he's
a good chef. I'd suggest getting real friendly with him, and
seeing if you can get him involved with the Church of
Scientology. I'm not suggesting YOU get involved -- I'm
suggesting you get this other guy involved. You can pretend
to be a Scientologist, if that helps. If you go down to your
local Dianetics centre, and explain the whole plan, they'll
be delighted to help you in any way that they can.

That'll fix this guy. You might screw up his whole life.
Hope this helps! :-)

"none" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:kJnEc.943987$oR5.736937@pd7tw3no...

Quoted message said:

Hi. My folks have hired a chef to help out with their
menu, and I think they're being scammed and I hope someone
around here can point me in the right direction. This chef
has made a few strange comments that I don't believe
indicate his prowess as a chef.

To give some insight, my folks are about to open a Greek
Restaurant (they had one before, but closed down to move
to a new location and get a fresh start). Their menu is
established, but they hope to gain the benefit of a chef
to help trim the rough edges on their menu design. They
hired him to work on prep and menu design, not to be a
line cook.

Anyway, one staple in Greek cuisine is Spanakopita. it's a
spinich pie

type

Quoted message said:

thing. My folks insist they use only fresh spinich for a
richer flavour. This individual argued that you should not
waste your money, and it

doesn't

Quoted message said:

make a difference if you use frozen spinich. Is he
correct? I feel that fresh vegetables have more flavour
than frozen.

I've made it both ways. You have to cook it first anyway.
I've never tasted the slightest difference. There are plenty
of fresh herbs in the dish to more than make up for any loss
in spinach flavor.

Quoted message said:

Furthermore, this "chef" believes that fish should never
be grilled. I'm

no

Quoted message said:

expert in fine dining, so I hope someone around here could
tell me if he's correct? I've had grilled Marlin before
and loved it. He insists all

fish

Quoted message said:

should only be pan fried, steamed, or poached.
Personally I quite like grilled Salmon. He insists it
comes out too dry.

Purely a matter of taste. Grilled fish is tricky to do right
but it is absolutely divine. The chef is probably of the
mind that grilling crowds out the natural flavor of the
fish. To a degree it does. Again, doing it right is hard.
And not just any fish can be grilled.

Quoted message said:

And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should
not sit thawed for more than four hours or it goes bad. My
folks take the Salmon, thaw it

out,

Quoted message said:

and marinade it for a day in the fridge and then serve it.
Now in the old restaurant, they operated for five years
without any major health

violations

Quoted message said:

or incidents. This might be a fallacious appeal to
perpetuitiy, but I

think

Quoted message said:

he's just plain wrong. I mean, you can have chicken sit in
the fridge overnight in marinade, cannot the same hold
true for fish?

Fish rots very fast. The Japanese would probably never eat
fish that has sat at room temperature for 4 or more hours.
Some taste buds pick up on the bad taste very quickly. I
think the chef has a delicate palate. As one would expect a
chef to have.

Quoted message said:

If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd
really appreciate

it.

Quoted message said:

this guy's a goof, and I think he's going to take my folks
for a ride. I guess in a way it's like your mechanic
telling you what's wrong with your car - you believe him
until you get a second opinion. I guess I'm just looking
for some opinions on these matters.

Sounds like he is opinionated - just like any good chef. I
tend to share his beliefs for the most part.

Paul

none said:

Anyway, one staple in Greek cuisine is Spanakopita. it's a
spinich pie type thing. My folks insist they use only
fresh spinich for a richer flavour. This individual argued
that you should not waste your money, and it doesn't make
a difference if you use frozen spinich. Is he correct? I
feel that fresh vegetables have more flavour than frozen.

Let your taste buds decide for you. Make a batch with fresh
spinach and a batch with frozen, then do a blind taste test.

Quoted message said:

Furthermore, this "chef" believes that fish should never
be grilled. I'm no expert in fine dining, so I hope
someone around here could tell me if he's correct? I've
had grilled Marlin before and loved it. He insists all
fish should only be pan fried, steamed, or poached.
Personally I quite like grilled Salmon. He insists it
comes out too dry.

Where food is concerned, everyone has his or her unique
preferences.

Quoted message said:

And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should
not sit thawed for more than four hours or it goes bad. My
folks take the Salmon, thaw it out, and marinade it for a
day in the fridge and then serve it. Now in the old
restaurant, they operated for five years without any major
health violations or incidents. This might be a fallacious
appeal to perpetuitiy, but I think he's just plain wrong.
I mean, you can have chicken sit in the fridge overnight
in marinade, cannot the same hold true for fish?

I used to work in a seafood restaurant. We frequently held
fish for a day or two. We never used frozen fish (except
for shrimp and lobster tails) and nothing bad happened to
any of it.

Quoted message said:

If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd
really appreciate it. this guy's a goof, and I think he's
going to take my folks for a ride. I guess in a way it's
like your mechanic telling you what's wrong with your car
- you believe him until you get a second opinion. I guess
I'm just looking for some opinions on these matters.

Bottom line is how well the restaurant is received by its
customers.

Quoted message said:

Hi. My folks have hired a chef to help out with their menu,
and I think they're being scammed and I hope someone around
here can point me in the right direction. This chef has
made a few strange comments that I don't believe indicate
his prowess as a chef.

To give some insight, my folks are about to open a Greek
Restaurant (they had one before, but closed down to move to
a new location and get a fresh start). Their menu is
established, but they hope to gain the benefit of a chef to
help trim the rough edges on their menu design. They hired
him to work on prep and menu design, not to be a line cook.

SNIP

Quoted message said:

If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd
really appreciate it. this guy's a goof, and I think he's
going to take my folks for a ride. I guess in a way it's
like your mechanic telling you what's wrong with your car -
you believe him until you get a second opinion. I guess I'm
just looking for some opinions on these matters.

Thanks so very much in advance for your help.

I'm sure your parents checked his references.

Quoted message said:

have hired a chef to help out with their menu, and I think
they're being scammed

What's this about "scammed"? Why criminalize policy
differences?

Neil

Really dude get real.

I'm a programmer. My folks were concerned, and I wanted to
see if it was justified.

I'm 29, married, and have my own life thanks...

Thanks everyone for your responses. I appreciate them
very much...

"Mark Thorson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

none said:

Hi. My folks have hired a chef to help out with their
menu, and I think they're being scammed and I hope
someone around here can point me in the right direction.
This chef has made a few strange comments that I don't
believe indicate his prowess as a chef.

Disregarding your cooking questions, which others have
already addressed, your entire posting is practically
dripping with eagerness to find fault with this guy. There
seems to be an unstated set of facts here, like maybe
you're feeling alienation of affection from your parents.
If that's the case, you gotta get rid of the guy, whether
or not he's a good chef. I'd suggest getting real friendly
with him, and seeing if you can get him involved with the
Church of Scientology. I'm not suggesting YOU get involved
-- I'm suggesting you get this other guy involved. You can
pretend to be a Scientologist, if that helps. If you go
down to your local Dianetics centre, and explain the whole
plan, they'll be delighted to help you in any way that
they can.

That'll fix this guy. You might screw up his whole life.
Hope this helps! :-)

Thanks stan - you were most insightful...

I was just trying to find if he was full of it. I appreciate
all the honest responses. Thanks all (except the person who
feels I'm having seperation anxiety - that's just odd).

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

none said:

Anyway, one staple in Greek cuisine is Spanakopita. it's
a spinich pie

type

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thing. My folks insist they use only fresh spinich for a
richer

flavour.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This individual argued that you should not waste your
money, and it

doesn't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

make a difference if you use frozen spinich. Is he
correct? I feel

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fresh vegetables have more flavour than frozen.

Let your taste buds decide for you. Make a batch with
fresh spinach and a batch with frozen, then do a blind
taste test.

Quoted message said:

Furthermore, this "chef" believes that fish should never
be grilled.

I'm no

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

expert in fine dining, so I hope someone around here
could tell me if

he's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

correct? I've had grilled Marlin before and loved it. He
insists all

fish

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

should only be pan fried, steamed, or poached.
Personally I quite like grilled Salmon. He insists it
comes out too dry.

Where food is concerned, everyone has his or her unique
preferences.

Quoted message said:

And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should
not sit thawed

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more than four hours or it goes bad. My folks take the
Salmon, thaw it

out,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and marinade it for a day in the fridge and then serve
it. Now in the

old

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

restaurant, they operated for five years without any
major health

violations

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or incidents. This might be a fallacious appeal to
perpetuitiy, but I

think

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he's just plain wrong. I mean, you can have chicken sit
in the fridge overnight in marinade, cannot the same
hold true for fish?

I used to work in a seafood restaurant. We frequently held
fish for a day or two. We never used frozen fish (except
for shrimp and lobster tails) and nothing bad happened to
any of it.

Quoted message said:

If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd
really appreciate

it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

this guy's a goof, and I think he's going to take my
folks for a ride.

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

guess in a way it's like your mechanic telling you
what's wrong with

your

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

car - you believe him until you get a second opinion. I
guess I'm just looking for some opinions on these
matters.

Bottom line is how well the restaurant is received by its
customers.

Of course - when possible they get fresh fish - but
sometimes you have to make due with frozen...

I agree - fresh salmon is just awesome. After freezing it's
not quite so nice...

"Vox Humana" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"none" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:kJnEc.943987$oR5.736937@pd7tw3no...

Quoted message said:

And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should
not sit thawed

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more than four hours or it goes bad.

I think that I would be more concerned about using frozen
fish than using frozen spinach. Spinach is a component in
a rather complex dish. The

fish

Quoted message said:

IS the dish. I would save money on the spinach and buy
fresh fish.

They did the best they could; he seemed like he knew what he
was talking about. Sometimes the best thing to do is just
seem him in action. He worked in several hotels as a chef
apparantly.

He also went through the kitchen and threw out every cutting
board - stated the bacteria was the problem... Funny - I
thought you kill the bacteria when you run the cutting board
through the sanitizer...

Anyway, we just found him to be quirky, and wanted to find
other opinions is all... Thanks...

"DJS0302" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040630004929.15906.00000506@mb-
m21.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hi. My folks have hired a chef to help out with their
menu, and I think they're being scammed and I hope
someone around here can point me in the right direction.
This chef has made a few strange comments that I don't
believe indicate his prowess as a chef.

To give some insight, my folks are about to open a Greek
Restaurant (they had one before, but closed down to move
to a new location and get a fresh start). Their menu is
established, but they hope to gain the benefit of

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

chef to help trim the rough edges on their menu design.
They hired him

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

work on prep and menu design, not to be a line cook.

SNIP

Quoted message said:

If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd
really appreciate

it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

this guy's a goof, and I think he's going to take my
folks for a ride. I guess in a way it's like your
mechanic telling you what's wrong with your car - you
believe him until you get a second opinion. I guess I'm
just looking for some opinions on these matters.

Thanks so very much in advance for your help.

I'm sure your parents checked his references.

Thanks, your idea in the oven sounds kinda yummy actually...

Yeah, pan-fried was on his list too sorry... He said
anything but grilled, period.

Now I'm no expert, but when I go fishing for fresh trout, my
favourite way to cook it is straight over the fire in my
fish basket - mmmmm...

Thanks for your insight. I'm glad I just didn't get a bunch
of ppl agreeing with me - that's boring 🙂

"SportKite1" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040629211148.04282.00000562@mb-
m26.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: "none" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Hi. My folks have hired a chef to help out with their
menu, and I think they're being scammed and I hope
someone around here can point me in the right direction.
This chef has made a few strange comments that I don't
believe indicate his prowess as a chef.

To give some insight, my folks are about to open a Greek
Restaurant (they had one before, but closed down to move
to a new location and get a fresh start). Their menu is
established, but they hope to gain the benefit of

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

chef to help trim the rough edges on their menu design.
They hired him

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

work on prep and menu design, not to be a line cook.

Anyway, one staple in Greek cuisine is Spanakopita. it's
a spinich pie

type

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thing. My folks insist they use only fresh spinich for a
richer flavour. This individual argued that you should
not waste your money, and it

doesn't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

make a difference if you use frozen spinich. Is he
correct? I feel that fresh vegetables have more flavour
than frozen.

Furthermore, this "chef" believes that fish should never
be grilled. I'm

no

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

expert in fine dining, so I hope someone around here
could tell me if

he's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

correct? I've had grilled Marlin before and loved it. He
insists all

fish

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

should only be pan fried, steamed, or poached.
Personally I quite like grilled Salmon. He insists it
comes out too dry.

And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should
not sit thawed

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more than four hours or it goes bad. My folks take the
Salmon, thaw it

out,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and marinade it for a day in the fridge and then serve
it. Now in the

old

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

restaurant, they operated for five years without any
major health

violations

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or incidents. This might be a fallacious appeal to
perpetuitiy, but I

think

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he's just plain wrong. I mean, you can have chicken sit
in the fridge overnight in marinade, cannot the same hold
true for fish?

If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd
really appreciate

it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

this guy's a goof, and I think he's going to take my
folks for a ride. I guess in a way it's like your
mechanic telling you what's wrong with your car - you
believe him until you get a second opinion. I guess I'm
just looking for some opinions on these matters.

Thanks so very much in advance for your help.

There must have been a reason that your parents hired this
particular

"chef".

Quoted message said:

Do you know what that reason is?

As far as the spinach, I agree with your parent's "chef".
Spanikopita

isn't

Quoted message said:

necessarily a high end dish, and using fresh spinach will
be VERY spendy.

If it

Quoted message said:

were me, I'd purchase the highest quality frozen spinach,
use really great

feta

Quoted message said:

cheese, good quality onions, filo and real butter.

Grilled fish is great only if using the freshest fish
possible, not

frozen -

Quoted message said:

AND - that is the specialty of the house, with a huge
turnover. I again

agree

Quoted message said:

with your parent's chef. I'd rather dine on previously
frozen fish if pan sautee'd combined with great
ingredients and/or finished off in the oven.

It

Quoted message said:

also allows for some nice crumbing options, including
herbs. YUM, I'm

thinking

Quoted message said:

feta cheese crumbed halibut with a reduction of tomatoes
with Kalamatas

here.

Quoted message said:

Poaching is not as much a technique in a restaurant, but
rather a specific preparation for a dish. I'm not getting
the steamed thing at all, unless

he's

Quoted message said:

talking about en papillote which would be cuisine
appropriate.

Are you sure he didn't also include "fried"? I know some
superior Greek

seafood

Quoted message said:

dishes that are fried and I can't imagine not having them
available.

I also agree with him regarding the marinade thing. Too
many natural

juices are

Quoted message said:

lost from previously frozen fish - and the result will
come out dry, even

if

Quoted message said:

bathed in wet ingredients for hours and then cooked wet.
It's another

thing

Quoted message said:

altogether to marinate fresh seafood overnight but that
doesn't sound like

the

Quoted message said:

problem here.

Sounds to me like this "chef" knows his business and if he
is quirky, big

deal.

Quoted message said:

I don't know a "chef" that isn't.

Ellen

Yay. I made aspelling mistake.

My other two questions sounded "fishy"? I wasn't trying to
be a troll... If I was trying to be a troll, I'd use words
to deliberately infuriate ppl... These were legit questions
I thought.

Anyway, I appreciate your insight and forwarded it on.
Thanks very much...

"PENMART01" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040629210437.13624.00000716@mb-
m12.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] asks:

My folks have hired a chef to help out with their menu,
and I think they're being scammed

Anyway, one staple in Greek cuisine is Spanakopita. it's
a spinich pie

type

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thing. My folks insist they use only fresh spinich for a
richer flavour. This individual argued that you should
not waste your money, and it

doesn't

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make a difference if you use frozen spinich. Is he
correct? I feel that fresh vegetables have more flavour
than frozen.

It's "spinach".

The chef is correct... unless you grow your own and pick
it that day

frozen

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spinach is indeed fresher than any from the produce
market, and unless

it's to

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be eaten uncooked (salad) then in a cooked dish frozen is
*always* better.

Your other two questions are just too fishy... I
smell troll.

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Furthermore, this "chef" believes that fish should never
be grilled. I'm

no

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expert in fine dining, so I hope someone around here
could tell me if

he's

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correct? I've had grilled Marlin before and loved it. He
insists all

fish

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should only be pan fried, steamed, or poached.
Personally I quite like grilled Salmon. He insists it
comes out too dry.

And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should
not sit thawed

for

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more than four hours or it goes bad. My folks take the
Salmon, thaw it

out,

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and marinade it for a day in the fridge and then serve
it. Now in the

old

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restaurant, they operated for five years without any
major health

violations

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or incidents. This might be a fallacious appeal to
perpetuitiy, but I

think

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he's just plain wrong. I mean, you can have chicken sit
in the fridge overnight in marinade, cannot the same hold
true for fish?

If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd
really appreciate

it.

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---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =--- ---=
Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without
tribulation." Sheldon ````````````

"none" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:A4CEc.951301$oR5.564701@pd7tw3no...

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Of course - when possible they get fresh fish - but
sometimes you have to make due with frozen...

I agree - fresh salmon is just awesome. After freezing
it's not quite so nice...

That's a good reason to only server fresh fish. With the
advent of the computer and good printers, you can easily
change the menu to reflect what is available in the market.

none said:

They did the best they could; he seemed like he knew what
he was talking about. Sometimes the best thing to do is
just seem him in action. He worked in several hotels as a
chef apparantly.

He also went through the kitchen and threw out every
cutting board - stated the bacteria was the problem...
Funny - I thought you kill the bacteria when you run the
cutting board through the sanitizer...

Cutting board choice is a matter of personal preference and
there is a wide range that meets health code. Your chef may
prefer a different brand or material choice or, if they came
over from the old restaurant, thought they were too old.

Quirky?? LOL I have rarely met a chef that wasn't. But to
address some of the things brought up.....

The expense of fresh compared to frozen spinach would lead
me to use fresh spinach only for raw items like salads. The
loss in volume and the bruising make using fresh spinach for
all items would make for high waste ratio. Spinach and peas
are a couple of the few frozen veg products that fly.

If he can't see grilling fish perhaps he is just weak on his
grilling (lol) Seriously, baking, steaming, and poaching are
about the only other heart-healthy methods of preparing
fish. This is definitely a weak area. Tell him grilled fish
is a must... period! Grilling is a station you really need
experience with to master moist, flavorful output. Between
temp control, the loss of juices (unless you use an overhead
broiler, and the effects of carry-over cooking, it is not a
simple skill to master. But any "chef" should feel no
challenge in producing consistently near-perfect results
from a gas-fired grill.

As far as food safety and food-borne illnesses.. most cases
of food-borne illness aren't even reported or traced to
meals. Food "poisoning" is easy to figure.. abdominal pain,
vomiting, etc. But what about that "flu bug that almost" got
you??? Not all food-borne pathogens lead to the dramatic
symptoms we call "food poisoning". One is never too clean
when it comes to food safety management. The guy might have
some mental trip about cutting boards, but it probably
didn't hurt. LOL.. if he has any recent formal training he
knows that holding proteins under refrigeration isn't a
problem below 40 degrees. That is not at all letting it "sit
out" more than 4 hours. Besides, HACCP would say no longer
than 2 hours accumulated in the food temp dangerzone
(between 40 and 140) In commercial operations frozen foods
are thawed under refrigeration or under cold water only. 24
hr marinating is common, especially for large pieces.

Bottom line.. the proof is in the pudding... tell him to
work within the established standard you have for a week
before changes are implemented and see how he does. The
mark of a true chef is the ability to adapt to use whatever
food products and equipment are at hand. He can ramble on
about how to better do things while he proves he can work
with anything.

But bear in mind, food culture is so vast, even a master
chef won't know every cuisine. When I began my culinary
training I was always impressed how modest some of the most
accomplished chefs were. I later understood why. LOL

Good luck.

"none" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:e3CEc.951299$oR5.444172@pd7tw3no...

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Thanks stan - you were most insightful...

I was just trying to find if he was full of it. I
appreciate all the

honest

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responses. Thanks all (except the person who feels I'm
having seperation anxiety - that's just odd).

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...

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none said:

Anyway, one staple in Greek cuisine is Spanakopita.
it's a spinich

pie

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type

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thing. My folks insist they use only fresh spinich for
a richer

flavour.

Quoted message said:

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This individual argued that you should not waste your
money, and it

doesn't

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make a difference if you use frozen spinich. Is he
correct? I feel

that

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fresh vegetables have more flavour than frozen.

Let your taste buds decide for you. Make a batch with
fresh spinach and a batch with frozen, then do a blind
taste test.

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Furthermore, this "chef" believes that fish should
never be grilled.

I'm no

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expert in fine dining, so I hope someone around here
could tell me if

he's

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correct? I've had grilled Marlin before and loved it.
He insists all

fish

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should only be pan fried, steamed, or poached.
Personally I quite

like

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grilled Salmon. He insists it comes out too dry.

Where food is concerned, everyone has his or her unique
preferences.

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And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish
should not sit thawed

for

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more than four hours or it goes bad. My folks take the
Salmon, thaw

it

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out,

Quoted message said:

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and marinade it for a day in the fridge and then serve
it. Now in the

old

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restaurant, they operated for five years without any
major health

violations

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or incidents. This might be a fallacious appeal to
perpetuitiy, but I

think

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he's just plain wrong. I mean, you can have chicken
sit in the fridge overnight in marinade, cannot the
same hold true for fish?

I used to work in a seafood restaurant. We frequently
held fish for a

day

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or two. We never used frozen fish (except for shrimp and
lobster tails) and nothing bad happened to any of it.

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If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd
really

appreciate

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it.

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this guy's a goof, and I think he's going to take my
folks for a ride.

I

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guess in a way it's like your mechanic telling you
what's wrong with

your

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car - you believe him until you get a second opinion.
I guess I'm

just

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looking for some opinions on these matters.

Bottom line is how well the restaurant is received by
its customers.