positioning for TT's

hei bikeguy!

i also ride time trials on my road bike, and find i can deliver more power riding with hands on the hoods, and elbows locked at 90 degrees, than on the drops. uphill seems to be the best place to do this, because the aerodynamic cost is lowest at the slower speeds, and because that where i feel the extra power is most beneficial.

of course i try to spend the most possible time on the drops, for the aero advantage, but if thats too uncomfortable to hold for say 40km, then i resort to the tops a bit.

tri bars seem to mix the benefits of extra power with aerodynamics, because you still get that sort of locked elbows/rigid upper body effect (provides a solid platform for the legs to push against), but in the low position. another option is to just drop your bars, with the intention of usually riding on the hoods, but in such a way as to be as low as if on the drops. the extra drop may not need to be too much, as its easier to ride with elbows at 90 degrees on the tops, whereas thery might be 'only' 135 degress on the drops.

regarding the discomfort of being on the drops, i find it is less when i'm leaner, for obvious reasons. i also like rowing as a form of cross training because it gets you used to working hard in a really cramped up position, with your knees on your chest - ie at the catch point of the stroke.

robkit said:

i also like rowing as a form of cross training because it gets you used to working hard in a really cramped up position, with your knees on your chest - ie at the catch point of the stroke.

That's a really valid point robkit. My fiancee is a rower and I note what excellent position she has on the bike.

I think it's odd, bikeguy, that you're experiencing pain in your ribs while in the drops. Perhaps you are arching your back a bit in the drops? This would tend to concave the ribs; maybe you need to stretch out more in the upper body. Achieving a good aero position in the drops requires a lot of flexibility in the hamstrings, gluteals and lower back. It also requires a lot of core strength. I think working on those would help you.

Also, you should get your bike set up properly. It could be that you need a longer stem.

I think riding in a highly aero position takes some practice (e.g, once a week), but the research suggests that there are a handful of objectives to be in one's optimal position: (1) back as close to horizontal as possible; (2) knees as close to the top tube as possible; and (3) hands as close together as possible. The obvious problem raised by the first objective is that as you drop down, you eventually find your knees bumping your torso. You can arch your back and go down a bit further, but that takes some practice to adapt to because it's not a normal position for our backs. I think the position/power tradeoff is only an initial loss. It should not be used for decision making at the first attempt. Rather, you should ride awhile in the most aero position and then do a power test. The following link has some pretty good analysis of the components of drag and the keys to aero positions. I'm not planning to do a TT until late October, so I'm not working on it now, but by 9/1 my bars are going down and I'll start riding at least once a week in a highly aero position to get comfortable with it and to adapt my neck muscles to the extra strain.
cervelo.comarticle5.htmlOpen ↗

bikeguy said:

This question is to serious road racers/TT'ers or sports scientists:

I've noticed that riding on the drops in a halfway aggressive position is resulting in some kind of respiratory distress (I go out of breath, huffing and puffing, with pain in the ribs) I can relieve this by riding on the tops or hoods, but obviously I lose a lot of aerodynamic advantage in doing this. I'm talking here about like a
40 k TT, of which I did one last weekend.

I've noticed that riding about half a TT on the drops and the other half on the tops is better than riding all on the drops or all on the tops. Even on a flat course. Up hills, I've started riding on the tops.

I've also noticed that I'm dropping people now on hills, I had a guy pass me on my TT, and then I started catching up as we hit a hill. I've dropped the other club riders on short/long hills repeatedly. Conversely, they pull ahead of me on the downhills during steady state rides where I don't try and sprint.

Based on my hill climbing, I think I have a fair deal of power , but it seems to me my aerodynamics are not optimal. I feel I'm not getting enough air into my lungs on the drops, and I start huffing and puffing which goes away if I sit up.

Any suggestions? Obviously I need to change my position on the bike and/or make adjustments to the bike. Would extending the handlebars forward help?

I found that I tolerated the aerobar position much better with a forward position seatpost. I guess I don't have the lower back flexibility that some have to get low with the saddle back. The forward position opens up the hip angle a bit so that you are less cramped and can breathe better. It does put a lot more weight on the arms though and control of the bike is not as good. You will need to come out of the aero position for braking anyway so it isn't that big of deal except on really technical courses. Look at pictures or video of Dave Zabriskie in the opening stage of the 2005 tour. He is on the tip of his saddle and way forward on the bike. It really isn't as uncomfortable for your butt/crotch as one might predict because most of the weight is on the arms and the pedals, with the saddle there just to stabilize you.

Although it may be considered sacrilige to suggest this in a road racers forum, look at some of the triathlon sites or magazines. They are way into TT equipment and body position-probably more than they are into training. One source of information in this category is the website of John Cobb at www.bicyclesports.com.

Good luck and go fast.

yeah, thanks for the replies, I basically am not able to get a full breath of air when I ride low in the drops, I've been doing this in training 4 days a week for the past 4 weeks so familiarity with the position is not the problem. Obviously I'm arching and my lungs are constricted. I'll have to get my mentor to take a look at me and see what adjustments can be made. I just started a road race today and got dropped because I made a mistake expending too much energy on one acceleration, but again I noticed that I kicked up a small hill much easier than the pack without undue effort.

-bikeguy