Position during climbing

Appkiller said:

Twice recently while accelerating hard on steep climbs on a competitive ride (not a formal race,
however) I found that my front wheel was hopping with my pedal strokes. I was seated both times.

Your wheelbase is too short, one of the negative side effects of the latest cycling fashion. Stand
while climbing, scoot forward on the saddle, get your chest close to the bars. Or better still, get
a bike with a reasonably long wheelbase and stop worrying about it.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA terrymorse.combikeOpen ↗

i have been told that when climbing scooting forward on the seat is the correct way to do it.. Have
I been told wrong? Seems to work for me, and saves my knees a bit.

david

"Appkiller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Twice recently while accelerating hard on steep climbs on

a

Quoted message said:

competitive ride (not a formal race, however) I found that

my front

Quoted message said:

wheel was hopping with my pedal strokes. I was seated

both times.

Quoted message said:

Wasted energy combined with a loss of steerage seemed like

a bad idea

Quoted message said:

so I shifted my weight forward the second time it

happened. I have

Quoted message said:

been shifting back on the seat as I have read/been told to

do on

Quoted message said:

climbs. My hands were next to the stem (not hoods or

drops).

Quoted message said:

My normal/most comfortable position on the bike is a

little forward of

Quoted message said:

KOPS, but not much (this post isn't about KOPS so don't

make it so).

Quoted message said:

Is there a modification I can make to my seated climbing

position that

Quoted message said:

doesn't lose the benefit of sliding back and getting my

gluts in the

Quoted message said:

act?

TIA

App

"Terry Morse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Appkiller said:

Twice recently while accelerating hard on steep climbs on a competitive ride (not a formal race,
however) I found that my front wheel was hopping with my pedal strokes. I was seated both times.

Your wheelbase is too short, one of the negative side effects of the latest cycling fashion. Stand
while climbing, scoot forward on the saddle, get your chest close to the bars. Or better still,
get a bike with a reasonably long wheelbase and stop worrying about it.
--

Not wheelbase; chainstays. I'm betting the OP is fairly tall and rides a large frame, and his
near-KOPS position has his seat well back anyway. Very rare to see this with smaller bikes/riders.

david <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

i have been told that when climbing scooting forward on the seat is the correct way to do it..
Have I been told wrong?

Yes - on a road bike you shouldn't have to do that.

But I also think the old "saddle back for climbing" adage is misguided. Sliding forward reduces your
effective saddle height and makes the gears "harder" but easier to spin. OTBE that would mean using
higher cadence on hills, which nobody does. I doubt if it spares your knees either.

Sliding back on the saddle gives you greater leg extension which makes it easier to push harder but
it also reduces the amount of "weight over the pedals" making it more likely you will get out of the
saddle, especially if like me you aren't a great spinner on hills . And it also increases front
wheel lifting.

I found I felt a lot better on hills when I moved my saddle forward (and raised it accordingly).
Others have tried the experiment and found same.

If people think there's some magic fore-aft "glutes" advantage on hills they should realise that
when you hit a hill your are naturally taken "aft". How differently do people want to be riding
up hill? (You could argue that if you ride hills on tops then to get the same glutes function as
when on hoods or drops you need to slide back - which might be a strategy for those who rarely
ride hills)

It's on the flat that forward positions are likely to be uncomfortable, not on hills.

Andrew Bradley

Sam Huffman <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Steve Blankenship said:

"Terry Morse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Appkiller" wrote:

> Twice recently while accelerating hard on steep climbs on a competitive ride (not a formal
> race, however) I found that my front wheel was hopping with my pedal strokes. I was seated
> both times.

Your wheelbase is too short, one of the negative side effects of the latest cycling fashion.
Stand while climbing, scoot forward on the saddle, get your chest close to the bars. Or better
still, get a bike with a reasonably long wheelbase and stop worrying about it.
--

Not wheelbase; chainstays. I'm betting the OP is fairly tall and rides

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

large frame, and his near-KOPS position has his seat well back anyway.

Very

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rare to see this with smaller bikes/riders.

I have this exact same problem, noticeable on moderately steep hills as excessive play in the
handlebars, and on very steep hills as a pop-wheelie

on

Quoted message said:

each pedal stroke.

This is on a 64cm Habanero road frame, with perhaps 7" of seatpost

showing.

Larger frames need longer wheelbase IMO. Lengthening chainstays alone reduces front wheel lift but
you can get back wheel skid out of the saddle.

Andrew Bradley

(Appkiller) said:

My normal/most comfortable position on the bike is a little forward of KOPS, but not much (this
post isn't about KOPS so don't make it so). Is there a modification I can make to my seated
climbing position that doesn't lose the benefit of sliding back and getting my gluts in the act?

Keep your elbows bent.

"Andrew Bradley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Sam Huffman <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Steve Blankenship said:

"Terry Morse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> "Appkiller" wrote:
>
> > Twice recently while accelerating hard on steep climbs on a competitive ride (not a formal
> > race, however) I found that my

front

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > wheel was hopping with my pedal strokes. I was seated both times.
>
> Your wheelbase is too short, one of the negative side effects of the latest cycling fashion.
> Stand while climbing, scoot forward on the saddle, get your chest close to the bars. Or
> better still, get a bike with a reasonably long wheelbase and stop worrying about it.
> --

Not wheelbase; chainstays. I'm betting the OP is fairly tall and

rides

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

large frame, and his near-KOPS position has his seat well back anyway.

Very

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rare to see this with smaller bikes/riders.

I have this exact same problem, noticeable on moderately steep hills as excessive play in the
handlebars, and on very steep hills as a

pop-wheelie

Quoted message said:

on

Quoted message said:

each pedal stroke.

This is on a 64cm Habanero road frame, with perhaps 7" of seatpost

showing.

Larger frames need longer wheelbase IMO. Lengthening chainstays alone reduces front wheel lift but
you can get back wheel skid out of the

saddle.

Quoted message said:

True, but they generally already have longer front centers due to significantly longer toptubes.
It's just that it's all too common for them to have the same chainstay length as smaller frames.
Combined with moving the rider back to accommodate long legs and the effect of road grade, the
weight bias goes back far enough to cause front wheel float during seated climbing. Of course as a
shrimp myself, I'm usually griping about the opposite, where the chainstays off a 60cm bike combine
with stubby front centers to give the rear wheel skip you note, plus other unpleasantries. I have to
laugh when I see a line of supposedly high-end bikes with parallel 73's and identical-length
chainstays from size 54 to 64, with only the toptubes being different. Who are they kidding?

Appkiller said:

Twice recently while accelerating hard on steep climbs on a competitive ride (not a formal race,
however) I found that my front wheel was hopping with my pedal strokes. I was seated both times.
Wasted energy combined with a loss of steerage seemed like a bad idea so I shifted my weight
forward the second time it happened. I have been shifting back on the seat as I have read/been
told to do on climbs. My hands were next to the stem (not hoods or drops).

My normal/most comfortable position on the bike is a little forward of KOPS, but not much (this
post isn't about KOPS so don't make it so). Is there a modification I can make to my seated
climbing position that doesn't lose the benefit of sliding back and getting my gluts in the act?

TIA

App

Killer mountain bike climbs force me back on the saddle, but also leaning forward to keep the front
wheel on the ground. Since breathing is a must, you learn to breath in that stretched-out position.

Moving your hands to the hoods or drops will adjust your center-of-gravity slightly forward,
achieving a similar effect.

Those must be some steep roads you're climbing. Or maybe your butt's big? :-)

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

In article said:

Twice recently while accelerating hard on steep climbs on a competitive ride (not a formal race,
however) I found that my front wheel was hopping with my pedal strokes. I was seated both times.
Wasted energy combined with a loss of steerage seemed like a bad idea so I shifted my weight
forward the second time it happened. I have been shifting back on the seat as I have read/been told
to do on climbs. My hands were next to the stem (not hoods or drops).

Are you pulling on the bars? When I've had this happen its because I have been pulling on the bars
in time with my pedal strokes without thinking about it. It happens only on steep climbs.

Try to relax your upper body... ok, that's hard to do when you are accelerating to drop or keep from
getting dropped. But at least try not to pull as hard.

Quoted message said:

My normal/most comfortable position on the bike is a little forward of KOPS, but not much (this
post isn't about KOPS so don't make it so). Is there a modification I can make to my seated
climbing position that doesn't lose the benefit of sliding back and getting my gluts in the act?

I'd be leery of changing position for this; unless your bike is wierdly proportioned you
shouldn't have to.

Lean farther forward?

Eric

One of the advantages of riding a touring machine with traditional geometry. Those 16" chainstays
keep the front wheel on the ground on all but the mosy ridiculous grades!

Get off the saddle when climbing. You can keep your hands on the hoods that way. Allows better grip
for "pulling up on the bars" and more room for your lungs to take in much needed O2

May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": geocities.comczcornerOpen ↗

All that being said, its a real pain to have a bike with a long wheelbase fighting tight turns in
slower city traffic.

"Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Larger frames need longer wheelbase IMO. Lengthening chainstays alone reduces front wheel lift
but you can get back wheel skid out of the

saddle.

Quoted message said:

True, but they generally already have longer front centers due to significantly longer toptubes.
It's just that it's all too common for

them

Quoted message said:

to have the same chainstay length as smaller frames. Combined with moving the rider back to
accommodate long legs and the effect of road grade, the weight bias goes back far enough to cause
front wheel float during seated climbing. Of course as a shrimp myself, I'm usually griping about
the opposite, where the chainstays off a 60cm bike combine with stubby front centers to give the
rear wheel skip you note, plus other unpleasantries.

I

Quoted message said:

have to laugh when I see a line of supposedly high-end bikes with parallel 73's and
identical-length chainstays from size 54 to 64, with only the toptubes being different. Who are
they kidding?

"Appkiller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Twice recently while accelerating hard on steep climbs on a competitive ride (not a formal race,
however) I found that my front wheel was hopping with my pedal strokes. I was seated both times.

I can't believe nobody said this yet, but maybe you should smooth out your pedaling and not be as
choppy. Better form, all that BS.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Quoted message said:

I can't believe nobody said this yet, but maybe you should smooth out your pedaling and not be as
choppy. Better form, all that BS.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Hey, "I" was about to say it, but ya beat me to the post...My helmet off to you!

"Appkiller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Twice recently while accelerating hard on steep climbs on a competitive ride (not a formal race,
however) I found that my front wheel was hopping with my pedal strokes. I was seated both times.
Wasted energy combined with a loss of steerage seemed like a bad idea so I shifted my weight
forward the second time it happened. I have been shifting back on the seat as I have read/been
told to do on climbs. My hands were next to the stem (not hoods or drops).

My normal/most comfortable position on the bike is a little forward of KOPS, but not much (this
post isn't about KOPS so don't make it so). Is there a modification I can make to my seated
climbing position that doesn't lose the benefit of sliding back and getting my gluts in the act?

TIA

App

It sounds to me like you are not geared correctly for this climb.