Portsmouth, NH Riders .....

===============================================================================
Made a few calls. Trying to figure out why Kittery is charging $5 dollars
to enter a park that was free.

My friend says "they don't want the people of color, the immigrants, to
invade their little park".

He went on to say that on the NH side of the river there is a park, Ordionne
( spelling?? ), and on the weekends there are all kinds of folks who go and
set up and enjoy and many of them are black, green, purple, and don't speak
English.

In his opinion, Kittery is trying to keep the park for the Kittery folks and
doesn't want the "other America" ( his words ) to visit their park.

This seems to me to be totally UN-AMERICAN.

If this is true, then Kittery is a racist town. Could this be true?

If you know of the situation at Fort Foster and if the racist accusation is
true; post it here.

If Kittery is setting up a system to keep "people" out of its park and the
system is UN AMERICAN .. let's send this info to the US Attorney.

$10 dollars for a family, and its relative to visit a park for the whole
year and $5 dollars for a bicyclist to enter, look at the water and turn
around seems to be a system that is set up to keep somebody out.

It kept me out.

Think about this for a moment. A family of bicyclists; Mom, Dad, and two
children ride over from Portsmouth. 4x5= $20

$20 so they can take a look at the water. That is twice the cost of a
Kittery family pass which lets the Kittery family enter each and every day
of the year!

This doesn't pass the smell test.

Come on Bicyclists .............. we can do it. Free Fort Foster!

Stop Kittery, Maine and its town government from setting up a system that
keeps Americans from entering Fort Foster.

"TomCAt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yesterday I did a Portsmouth to Kittery ride. If you live in this area I
am
sure you know the route. Over the Memorial Bridge, Follow the shore route
into Kittery toward Frisbee's store. After Frisbee's take a right at
Chauncey Creek, head toward Fort Foster.

It was hotter than hell. And humid.

I get all the way to Fort Foster. As I pull up to the little gate, this
guy
says "excuse me, I must charge you $5 dollars to enter". I look at this
guy
and ask "$5 dollars, on a bicycle", "your kidding, right"? He repeats.
"$5
dollars".

This area used to be Federal Property. I have cycled here for years.
There
was no entrance fee. There isn't any facilities that I know of. It is
just
the land at the entrance to Portsmouth, NH harbor on the Kittery side.

Remember, it was hot, humid and I was not in a very good mood.

I exploded. "What do you mean it is $5 dollars to enter this park", "that
is ridiculous" , "I am on a bicycle".

"Now, now" said the fellow, "don't get all upset, it is the town of
Kittery
that sets the price".

"I ride all the way out here, it is hot, it is humid and all I want to do
is
go and look at the water and then leave and you don't want me to get
upset"?
"You should be Fxxxxxg ashamed of yourself". Now I am really letting go.
"I am on a bicycle", "I am not polluting", "this is [censored]", .........
at
this point the fellow asks me not too get to upset. "Upset, you ask me
not
to get upset"? "It is 100*, the town of Kittery is denying entrance to a
park someone on a bicycle and the park is a former Federal Land which used
to be free and you don't want me to get upset"? "Go fxxxk yourself".

As I leave car after car arrives with multiple people and their dogs.
They
all enter without paying. How is this, I ask myself.

The answer: The town of Kittery was given the land by the Federal
government; that is us as in WE as in the CITIZENS of the USA. So what
did the town of Kittery do? They set up a fee system. If you live in
Kittery or are related to someone who lives in Kittery you can get a pass
for ARE YOU READY ..... $10 PER YEAR! THAT IS FOR THE WHOLE FAMILY!

BUT, IF YOU ARE A CYCLIST WHO RIDES OVER FROM PORTSMOUTH, NH YOU MUST PAY
$5
JUST TO GO IN AND TURN AROUND!

Now, I am not telling anyone to break the law. But, if you live in the
area
and your mountain bike happens to ram into the fence just past where the
little entrance is and that fence gets all broken, wouldn't that be awful.
But, since the fence is broken and mountain bikes like to go down trails I
would think that maybe a new trail would be a nice addition to the Fort
Foster Park.

Remember, I'm not telling you to do this. Or recommending. It is just
that
this COULD HAPPEN IF SOMEONE ON A MOUNTAIN BIKE ISN'T CAREFUL.

Ride safely, be careful.

If you ram into the fence at Fort Foster, be safe. If I come along and
see
that the fence is broken I will go in and make sure that you arent hurt or
something.

Many towns do this for their residents. Joliet, IL charges non-resident
fees for its park and the golf course. The town owns the land, they can
do what they want.

No they can't ...

The land was "given" to the town by the US Government. This gift doesn't
mean the town gets to keep out people of color, etc.

If the town sets up a system which is blantantly racist, anti anyone who
isn't a town resident or family member of a town resident and that said town
got the gift of the land from us, we Americans, then that town is in
violation of anti discrimination laws.

ps ... is Joliet still the home of the Mafia..

"bryanska" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Many towns do this for their residents. Joliet, IL charges non-resident
fees for its park and the golf course. The town owns the land, they can
do what they want.

As I read your posting once more I got to thinking ////// ???? ////

Say you live in York, Maine. You are Black. For years you have enjoyed
bicycling to Fort Foster which is at the entrance to Portsmouth, NH.

So, one day you come along and you ride up to the gate, a gate that didn't
even exist when last you rode there.

The guy in front of you is riding his fancy $5,000 bicycle and he is wearing
all the best cycling clothes.

The gate guy says "hi, mr Kerry" come right in. Or, "hi, mr Kennedy have a
nice visit" ... or "hi Mr Bush, watch out for the poison ivy".

Then you come up to the gate and he says "that will be $300 dollars".

Now, since you live nearby, you know that the town has received money from
the Federal Government to improve its bathroom at the park.

Yet, you can't afford to pay $300 dollars for a one hour visit.

Huum .. you think. Seems like the town wants it both ways.

"bryanska" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Many towns do this for their residents. Joliet, IL charges non-resident
fees for its park and the golf course. The town owns the land, they can
do what they want.

TomCAt said:

===============================================================================
Made a few calls. Trying to figure out why Kittery is charging $5 dollars
to enter a park that was free.

My friend says "they don't want the people of color, the immigrants, to
invade their little park".

He went on to say that on the NH side of the river there is a park, Ordionne
( spelling?? ), and on the weekends there are all kinds of folks who go and
set up and enjoy and many of them are black, green, purple, and don't speak
English.

You should go to that side, I always picnic on the immigrant side of
parks, the people are more polite and the grilling food smells much better.

Quoted message said:

In his opinion, Kittery is trying to keep the park for the Kittery folks and
doesn't want the "other America" ( his words ) to visit their park.

This seems to me to be totally UN-AMERICAN.

If this is true, then Kittery is a racist town. Could this be true?

I thought all of NH was racist. "Live free or die" is some kind of code,
I think.

Please clarify - if the land was a govt gift, it can't be used to
collect money - do I have that right?

Peter, the Live, Free or Die state is New Hamphire. Kittery is in Maine.

It is easy to remember. In NH people have a full set of teeth. In Maine,
one tooth.

========================================================================
Seriously, the Fort Foster issue is very upsetting. For years I have cycled
to Ft Foster from Portsmouth. It is a great bicycle ride. You get to the
Fort, stop, look at the water, maybe take a break and then back on the
bicycle and head for Portsmouth.

Kittery, like many of the towns on the southern Maine coast, was once a very
nice working class, lots of lobstermen/fishing boats families/people who
worked at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard town.

It is being taken over by yuppy's who work in MASS. They jump on RT 95 and
head south.

As the MASS people have invaded the town has changed. The houses are big,
rich.

And now the rich jerks want to keep bicyclists out of Ft Foster. They don't
mind getting the Federal Government to fix the place up for them though.

They have taken over a beautiful park and now want only "the townees" to
enter. No stinking bicyclists!

Tomorrow I am going to get in touch with the US Attorney's office. I will
ask if what Kittery is doing is legal.

My feeling is; Kittery can charge a fee but it must be fair. They can't
set up a system that keeps out regular folks and at the same time take
Federal Money for all their improvements.

I'm just one cyclist fighting back. Trying.

I may not be successful but I am going to try.

"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TomCAt said:

===============================================================================
Made a few calls. Trying to figure out why Kittery is charging $5
dollars to enter a park that was free.

My friend says "they don't want the people of color, the immigrants, to
invade their little park".

He went on to say that on the NH side of the river there is a park,
Ordionne ( spelling?? ), and on the weekends there are all kinds of folks
who go and set up and enjoy and many of them are black, green, purple,
and don't speak English.

You should go to that side, I always picnic on the immigrant side of
parks, the people are more polite and the grilling food smells much
better.

Quoted message said:

In his opinion, Kittery is trying to keep the park for the Kittery folks
and doesn't want the "other America" ( his words ) to visit their park.

This seems to me to be totally UN-AMERICAN.

If this is true, then Kittery is a racist town. Could this be true?

I thought all of NH was racist. "Live free or die" is some kind of code, I
think.

TomCAt said:

Peter, the Live, Free or Die state is New Hamphire. Kittery is in Maine.

It is easy to remember. In NH people have a full set of teeth. In Maine,
one tooth.

========================================================================
Seriously, the Fort Foster issue is very upsetting. For years I have cycled
to Ft Foster from Portsmouth. It is a great bicycle ride. You get to the
Fort, stop, look at the water, maybe take a break and then back on the
bicycle and head for Portsmouth.

Kittery, like many of the towns on the southern Maine coast, was once a very
nice working class, lots of lobstermen/fishing boats families/people who
worked at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard town.

It is being taken over by yuppy's who work in MASS. They jump on RT 95 and
head south.

As the MASS people have invaded the town has changed. The houses are big,
rich.

That's because all of the nice little undeveloped spots in MA are
overrun by New Yorkers. It's called population pressure, I think.

My sister moved down to RI, usually considered the least desirable part
of the New England coast just to get shore property. Once there, she
became embroiled in all the access/view/mooring/launching/landscaping
issues with all her equally beach-greedy neighbors. It's such [censored].
Talk about tragedy of the commons. I can't even stand to visit most
coastal communities anymore.

My only familiarity with the Kittery/Portsmouth area is that it's part
of the route my club's (Charles River Wheelmen) annual "Tour of New
England" takes. Every Memorial Day weekend we ride a 3-day, 350 mile
course that touches every New England state. Riding to the coast from
Dover NH to Kittery, then to Portsmouth, Rye, Hampton and Seabrook on
the way back to Boston is beautiful, but I wouldn't want to live there
(or even vacation) -- too much development -- as usual, people have
ruined the very thing they supposedly valued.

What I've discovered, even in fairly densely populated New England,
there are very beautiful places that aren't at all popular -- just not
fashionable. I think it's always that way, there's enough to go around
(this is a big country), but when the area you've known becomes popular,
it's time to move on.

Peter, ...
==================================================
"What I've discovered, even in fairly densely populated New England,

Quoted message said:

there are very beautiful places that aren't at all popular -- just not
fashionable. I think it's always that way, there's enough to go around
(this is a big country), but when the area you've known becomes popular,
it's time to move on."

==========================================================
I used to think like you. I figured the rich guys were just a nuisance.
They had their little spots. This is not the case anymore. The USA is
becoming more and more a two society country. The haves and the rest of
us. And the haves want all the good land, the shore front, and they don't
want to be bothered by the regular folks. Basically, they can't stand us.
We remind them of their insignificance.

Last election. Kerry and Bush. Just two regular guys; sure. Kerry has
more homes that the king of Spain. Have you ever been to Nantucket. It was
a kinda nice place until the rich and the new rich decided to take over.
Now you go there and are told don't go there, and you can't go there, and
there is no admitance there. Meanwhile, you get out to the beach and there
they are. The rich [censored] are parked right on the beach in their four
wheel drive jeeps. No problem for them. Remember, the rules are made for
us, not them.

As for Bush, Kennebunkport in the summer and who knows where .. Texas ranch
I guess, in the winter.

These people can't stand us regular folks. They never worked with us, or
ate with us, or talked to us, and they sure and hell don't want us on their
beaches.

More and more I see places that I cycled getting closed off. Beaches I used
to walk on but now can't get too.

This is happening everywhere.

I still plan on contacting the US Attorney's office. As far as I am
concerned, if I dont try then the rich [censored] have won again.

"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TomCAt said:

Peter, the Live, Free or Die state is New Hamphire. Kittery is in Maine.

It is easy to remember. In NH people have a full set of teeth. In
Maine, one tooth.

========================================================================
Seriously, the Fort Foster issue is very upsetting. For years I have
cycled to Ft Foster from Portsmouth. It is a great bicycle ride. You
get to the Fort, stop, look at the water, maybe take a break and then
back on the bicycle and head for Portsmouth.

Kittery, like many of the towns on the southern Maine coast, was once a
very nice working class, lots of lobstermen/fishing boats families/people
who worked at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard town.

It is being taken over by yuppy's who work in MASS. They jump on RT 95
and head south.

As the MASS people have invaded the town has changed. The houses are
big, rich.

That's because all of the nice little undeveloped spots in MA are overrun
by New Yorkers. It's called population pressure, I think.

My sister moved down to RI, usually considered the least desirable part of
the New England coast just to get shore property. Once there, she became
embroiled in all the access/view/mooring/launching/landscaping issues with
all her equally beach-greedy neighbors. It's such [censored]. Talk about
tragedy of the commons. I can't even stand to visit most coastal
communities anymore.

My only familiarity with the Kittery/Portsmouth area is that it's part of
the route my club's (Charles River Wheelmen) annual "Tour of New England"
takes. Every Memorial Day weekend we ride a 3-day, 350 mile course that
touches every New England state. Riding to the coast from Dover NH to
Kittery, then to Portsmouth, Rye, Hampton and Seabrook on the way back to
Boston is beautiful, but I wouldn't want to live there (or even
vacation) -- too much development -- as usual, people have ruined the very
thing they supposedly valued.

What I've discovered, even in fairly densely populated New England, there
are very beautiful places that aren't at all popular -- just not
fashionable. I think it's always that way, there's enough to go around
(this is a big country), but when the area you've known becomes popular,
it's time to move on.

"TomCAt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Have you ever been to Nantucket.

No, but I'm quite a fan of their limericks.

TomCAt said:

Peter, ...
==================================================
"What I've discovered, even in fairly densely populated New England,

Quoted message said:

there are very beautiful places that aren't at all popular -- just not
fashionable. I think it's always that way, there's enough to go around
(this is a big country), but when the area you've known becomes popular,
it's time to move on."

==========================================================
I used to think like you. I figured the rich guys were just a nuisance.
They had their little spots. This is not the case anymore. The USA is
becoming more and more a two society country. The haves and the rest of
us.

Yeah, but don't assume that the "haves" actually have anything. They
certainly never seem to have a good time. I wasn't kidding about the
immigrant side of the park -- it's more fun.

Quoted message said:

Last election. Kerry and Bush. Just two regular guys; sure. Kerry has
more homes that the king of Spain. Have you ever been to Nantucket. It was
a kinda nice place until the rich and the new rich decided to take over.
Now you go there and are told don't go there, and you can't go there, and
there is no admitance there.

Yeah, I have a friend who grew up on Nantucket -- talk about not being
able to go home again! I still sail my little boat in the waters off
there and Marthas Vinyard, along the 17 miles of the Elizabeth Islands
(owned by the Forbes family) they don't own the water.

Quoted message said:

As for Bush, Kennebunkport in the summer and who knows where .. Texas ranch
I guess, in the winter.

Yeah, Bush MTB's around his 1,500 acre ranch. Big deal, I ride around my
3,000 acre reservation, and I'm sure mine's nicer. At 59 he's discovered
that there's nothing more fun than riding a bike in the woods, duh! And
as many of us know, there isn't a whole lot of fun differential between
a $500 and a $5,000 bike. What does Kerry do for fun? He's got
mega-mega-bucks, and he tools along over the very same roads I do on his
Serotta. I don't need the Serotta, thanks. And I don't have to put up
with the convoy of reporters. I think I have it better than him, at
least sometimes.

Quoted message said:

These people can't stand us regular folks. They never worked with us, or
ate with us, or talked to us, and they sure and hell don't want us on their
beaches.

Maybe I'm just believing the press releases, but I get the impression
that JWB and JFK would like to do nothing better than hang out and ride
bikes with us regular folks. I've known a lot of wealthy people who were
not snobs and were the same way.

Quoted message said:

More and more I see places that I cycled getting closed off. Beaches I used
to walk on but now can't get too.

This is happening everywhere.

Sure, but this is a different problem. It's the private beach and gated
community thing. It's a Not In My Backyard (NIMBY) issue. Things like
power boats, jetskis, etc. get concentrated in a few places when
everywhere else goes NIMBY.

One of the beauties of bikes is that a lot of communities control
facility access by controlling parking (resident only, etc.).
Theoretically, they can't close road access to bikes, but the actually
have done that in some areas on Marthas Vinyard. Bridges are sometimes
used to ban bikes from some areas (use the "safety" argument).

I also get worked up when bike access is restricted to park areas. One
of the reasons I'm opposed to "vehicular equivalence" for bikes is that
I've seen that sword cut both ways when bikes get lumped with other
off-road vehicles under that classification. I've had more than one
heated exchange about not even being allowed to walk my bike in some
Audubon Society sanctuaries -- a truly dumb policy.

Some beaches charge a per-head fee, some a per-vehicle/parking. If the
area you're tweaked about is per-head, then I don't see the injustice.
If it's the fact that locals get a free swim and out of towners pay,
well that's a common situation -- "we've got ours". Sucks, but it's part
of the American way. I think all of the coastline should be public
access, but in the East anyway, that's not historically been the policy.

Another bike-access limiting thing (besides development) has been
security. There are areas here in Boston that have gone from bad to
worse in access. We have an airport, LNG facility, federal courthouse,
etc. that now essentially cordon off large coastal areas. That's after
major commercial development (hotels, office buildings, etc.) built a
glass and steel wall up to the water's edge. Nothing like living in a
harbor city and not being able to find the water.

Quoted message said:

I still plan on contacting the US Attorney's office. As far as I am
concerned, if I dont try then the rich [censored] have won again.

What the F are you talking about? IT'S MUNICIPAL PROPERTY!!!

The property owner has the right to restrict access and towns do this
all the time. Don't like it? Move to the town or buy your own park. Or
go to another park. You can't just go wherever you want for however
much you feel like paying.

You're not a victim here, dude! Go to the town, go to the town, go to
the town!

Be heard and present your case. Target the decision makers, be heard by
the opinion leaders. If your case has merit, a debate will ensue and
THEN you can use your obvious passion. But discrimination? Racism?

Hey Bry ................... the park in question was FEDERAL PROPERTY.

When the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT gave the land to the town, it requied the town
to let in the public. That doesn't mean the town can set up a system that
is so blantantly unfair that is discourages the general public from
visiting.

Where have you been, under a rock. Ever read any US History. This is what
the south did up until the 1960's.

When separate but equal was struck down, the rich communities tried to set
up systems that would keep out people they did not want at their parks, ball
fields, etc.

If Kittery wants to charge a fee to enter its park, fine. That does not
give them the right to set up a system that is exclusionary.

I really feel sorry for you. You are obviously ignorant about the country
you live in.

When the town of Kittery accepts money from the Federal Government to fix up
its park then says "only for town residents", it is in violation of the US
Constitution.

You can't have it both ways. We live in a country that is supposed to be
equal.

"bryanska" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I still plan on contacting the US Attorney's office. As far as I am
concerned, if I dont try then the rich [censored] have won again.

What the F are you talking about? IT'S MUNICIPAL PROPERTY!!!

The property owner has the right to restrict access and towns do this
all the time. Don't like it? Move to the town or buy your own park. Or
go to another park. You can't just go wherever you want for however
much you feel like paying.

You're not a victim here, dude! Go to the town, go to the town, go to
the town!

Be heard and present your case. Target the decision makers, be heard by
the opinion leaders. If your case has merit, a debate will ensue and
THEN you can use your obvious passion. But discrimination? Racism?

TomCAt said:

Yesterday I did a Portsmouth to Kittery ride. If you live in this area I am
sure you know the route. Over the Memorial Bridge, Follow the shore route
into Kittery toward Frisbee's store. After Frisbee's take a right at
Chauncey Creek, head toward Fort Foster.

It was hotter than hell. And humid.

I get all the way to Fort Foster. As I pull up to the little gate, this guy
says "excuse me, I must charge you $5 dollars to enter". I look at this guy
and ask "$5 dollars, on a bicycle", "your kidding, right"? He repeats. "$5
dollars".

This area used to be Federal Property. I have cycled here for years. There
was no entrance fee. There isn't any facilities that I know of. It is just
the land at the entrance to Portsmouth, NH harbor on the Kittery side.

Remember, it was hot, humid and I was not in a very good mood.

I exploded. "What do you mean it is $5 dollars to enter this park", "that
is ridiculous" , "I am on a bicycle".

"Now, now" said the fellow, "don't get all upset, it is the town of Kittery
that sets the price".

As I leave car after car arrives with multiple people and their dogs. They
all enter without paying. How is this, I ask myself.

The answer: The town of Kittery was given the land by the Federal
government; that is us as in WE as in the CITIZENS of the USA. So what
did the town of Kittery do? They set up a fee system. If you live in
Kittery or are related to someone who lives in Kittery you can get a pass
for ARE YOU READY ..... $10 PER YEAR! THAT IS FOR THE WHOLE FAMILY!

BUT, IF YOU ARE A CYCLIST WHO RIDES OVER FROM PORTSMOUTH, NH YOU MUST PAY $5
JUST TO GO IN AND TURN AROUND!

It's not uncommon actually, the town needs to maintain roads and trails,
collect trash, clean washrooms (if there are any), police the park,
maintain any existing structures, deal with tree falls, etc can be quite
expensive, especially if there are a lot of non-residents using the
park. Many towns therefore add user fees, to recover some of the
expenses, from the people who use the park. Some will charge the fees
to everyone, some will, as it looks in this case, they charge residents
a small registration fee, so that they can determine who is a resident,
and who isn't.

As for the feds, it's called downloading (dumping expensive local items
on the state, province or municipality), it's also common. It's not
fair to someone in Las Vegas, NV to have their taxes paying for a park
in NH either.....

I doubt it has anything to do with being anti-bicycle, there is probably
a fee for walkers, bikers and another fee for auto traffic (it's
probably more). You could always ask the gate guy what department he is
with, then call the town and complain, who knows they may offer to sell
you one of those $10 passes.

W

The fee for entering the park is $5 dollars.

That is if you are walking, bicycling, crawling.

$5 dollars per person.

If you are a resident of Kittery, or related to one or a ward of one ( I'm
shaky on what this means but it is in the regs ) .., the whole household can
use a pass. $10 dollars per year. That means if some family in Kittery
with their 20 kids show up, they just wave the pass. If a family from York
Beach show up with their 2 kids, $5 dollars per person.

Do you think this is fair?

The town of Kittery does almost nothing for the park.

It is just a piece of land at the entrance to Portsmouth Harbor. There is a
warf, but no one is allowed to use it. It really isn't much but a nice spot
to stretch ones' legs, look at the cold water and turn around.

I would not care if the fee was fair, in proportion to the yearly fee the
residents pay.

$5 dollars is outrageous. It is set high for one reason and one reason
only...

Kittery does not want anyone who isn't "their kind of people" in "their"
park.

"The Wogster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TomCAt said:

Yesterday I did a Portsmouth to Kittery ride. If you live in this area I
am
sure you know the route. Over the Memorial Bridge, Follow the shore
route
into Kittery toward Frisbee's store. After Frisbee's take a right at
Chauncey Creek, head toward Fort Foster.

It was hotter than hell. And humid.

I get all the way to Fort Foster. As I pull up to the little gate, this
guy
says "excuse me, I must charge you $5 dollars to enter". I look at this
guy
and ask "$5 dollars, on a bicycle", "your kidding, right"? He repeats.
"$5
dollars".

This area used to be Federal Property. I have cycled here for years.
There
was no entrance fee. There isn't any facilities that I know of. It is
just
the land at the entrance to Portsmouth, NH harbor on the Kittery side.

Remember, it was hot, humid and I was not in a very good mood.

I exploded. "What do you mean it is $5 dollars to enter this park",
"that
is ridiculous" , "I am on a bicycle".

"Now, now" said the fellow, "don't get all upset, it is the town of
Kittery
that sets the price".

As I leave car after car arrives with multiple people and their dogs.
They
all enter without paying. How is this, I ask myself.

The answer: The town of Kittery was given the land by the Federal
government; that is us as in WE as in the CITIZENS of the USA. So what
did the town of Kittery do? They set up a fee system. If you live in
Kittery or are related to someone who lives in Kittery you can get a pass
for ARE YOU READY ..... $10 PER YEAR! THAT IS FOR THE WHOLE FAMILY!

BUT, IF YOU ARE A CYCLIST WHO RIDES OVER FROM PORTSMOUTH, NH YOU MUST PAY
$5
JUST TO GO IN AND TURN AROUND!

It's not uncommon actually, the town needs to maintain roads and trails,
collect trash, clean washrooms (if there are any), police the park,
maintain any existing structures, deal with tree falls, etc can be quite
expensive, especially if there are a lot of non-residents using the park.
Many towns therefore add user fees, to recover some of the expenses, from
the people who use the park. Some will charge the fees to everyone, some
will, as it looks in this case, they charge residents a small registration
fee, so that they can determine who is a resident, and who isn't.

As for the feds, it's called downloading (dumping expensive local items on
the state, province or municipality), it's also common. It's not fair to
someone in Las Vegas, NV to have their taxes paying for a park in NH
either.....

I doubt it has anything to do with being anti-bicycle, there is probably a
fee for walkers, bikers and another fee for auto traffic (it's probably
more). You could always ask the gate guy what department he is with, then
call the town and complain, who knows they may offer to sell you one of
those $10 passes.

W

Quoted message said:

When the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT gave the land to the town, it requied the town
to let in the public. That doesn't mean the town can set up a system that
is so blantantly unfair that is discourages the general public from
visiting.

Quoted message said:

If Kittery wants to charge a fee to enter its park, fine. That does not
give them the right to set up a system that is exclusionary.

Quoted message said:

When the town of Kittery accepts money from the Federal Government to fix up
its park then says "only for town residents", it is in violation of the US
Constitution.

I will apologetically withdraw my position if you show me where two of
these three points are written.

TomCAt said:

The fee for entering the park is $5 dollars.

That is if you are walking, bicycling, crawling.

$5 dollars per person.

If you are a resident of Kittery, or related to one or a ward of one ( I'm
shaky on what this means but it is in the regs ) .., the whole household can
use a pass. $10 dollars per year. That means if some family in Kittery
with their 20 kids show up, they just wave the pass. If a family from York
Beach show up with their 2 kids, $5 dollars per person.

Do you think this is fair?

I do.

Actually, the entire fee structure may be viewed at:

http://www.kittery.org/TownServices/fortFosterRulesandRegulations.htm

Quoted message said:

The town of Kittery does almost nothing for the park.

The town maintains the park (mows lawns, cleans restrooms, repairs
roadways and structures, etc.,).

Quoted message said:

It is just a piece of land at the entrance to Portsmouth Harbor. There is a
warf, but no one is allowed to use it. It really isn't much but a nice spot
to stretch ones' legs, look at the cold water and turn around.

It attacts an awful lot of visitors just the same. If you want a "free"
beach try Seapoint Beach. It's just down the road.

Quoted message said:

I would not care if the fee was fair, in proportion to the yearly fee the
residents pay.

$5 dollars is outrageous. It is set high for one reason and one reason
only...

You could buy a season pass if you used the park frequently, But since
you weren't even aware that a gatehouse had been erected (it's been
there for many years now) I guess you're more of the casual user and $5
per visit is fair and a better deal for you.

Quoted message said:

Kittery does not want anyone who isn't "their kind of people" in "their"
park.

Many towns and city give perks to local residents. Portsmouth's Rec
department provides free swim lessons to residents and charges $50 to
non-residents.The Peirce Island boat lauch is free to Portsmouth
residents but it would cost me $100 for a season pass.

Perhaps you just need to look around a bit more to really find the
equity you're looking for?

You are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

=============================================================
"KitPol" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TomCAt said:

The fee for entering the park is $5 dollars.

That is if you are walking, bicycling, crawling.

$5 dollars per person.

If you are a resident of Kittery, or related to one or a ward of one (
I'm
shaky on what this means but it is in the regs ) .., the whole household
can
use a pass. $10 dollars per year. That means if some family in Kittery
with their 20 kids show up, they just wave the pass. If a family from
York
Beach show up with their 2 kids, $5 dollars per person.

Do you think this is fair?

I do.

Actually, the entire fee structure may be viewed at:

http://www.kittery.org/TownServices/fortFosterRulesandRegulations.htm

Quoted message said:

The town of Kittery does almost nothing for the park.

The town maintains the park (mows lawns, cleans restrooms, repairs
roadways and structures, etc.,).

Quoted message said:

It is just a piece of land at the entrance to Portsmouth Harbor. There
is a
warf, but no one is allowed to use it. It really isn't much but a nice
spot
to stretch ones' legs, look at the cold water and turn around.

It attacts an awful lot of visitors just the same. If you want a "free"
beach try Seapoint Beach. It's just down the road.

Quoted message said:

I would not care if the fee was fair, in proportion to the yearly fee the
residents pay.

$5 dollars is outrageous. It is set high for one reason and one reason
only...

You could buy a season pass if you used the park frequently, But since
you weren't even aware that a gatehouse had been erected (it's been
there for many years now) I guess you're more of the casual user and $5
per visit is fair and a better deal for you.

Quoted message said:

Kittery does not want anyone who isn't "their kind of people" in "their"
park.

Many towns and city give perks to local residents. Portsmouth's Rec
department provides free swim lessons to residents and charges $50 to
non-residents.The Peirce Island boat lauch is free to Portsmouth
residents but it would cost me $100 for a season pass.

Perhaps you just need to look around a bit more to really find the
equity you're looking for?

TomCAt said:

You are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Why did you top-post that and not address anything the person wrote?!?

The residents of the town certainly pay for upkeep of the park through
taxes, fees, etc. I'm sure that some of /them/ don't like having to even
pay for the season pass on top of that.

If you don't like it, stop riding there. We have a similar thing here in
San Diego, where the Point Loma "tide pools" now cost $5 to visit (long
windy hill -- fun down, grind up). I turn around at the gate unless I'm
with someone who has an Eagle Pass. Not terribly complicated.

You should ride back there ONCE, however -- to apologize to the poor
attendant you treated so shabbily. (Are you always so angry and rude?!?)

Try growing up... BS

Quoted message said:

=============================================================
"KitPol" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TomCAt said:

The fee for entering the park is $5 dollars.

That is if you are walking, bicycling, crawling.

$5 dollars per person.

If you are a resident of Kittery, or related to one or a ward of
one ( I'm
shaky on what this means but it is in the regs ) .., the whole
household can
use a pass. $10 dollars per year. That means if some family in
Kittery with their 20 kids show up, they just wave the pass. If a
family from York
Beach show up with their 2 kids, $5 dollars per person.

Do you think this is fair?

I do.

Actually, the entire fee structure may be viewed at:

http://www.kittery.org/TownServices/fortFosterRulesandRegulations.htm

Quoted message said:

The town of Kittery does almost nothing for the park.

The town maintains the park (mows lawns, cleans restrooms, repairs
roadways and structures, etc.,).

Quoted message said:

It is just a piece of land at the entrance to Portsmouth Harbor. There
is a
warf, but no one is allowed to use it. It really isn't much but a
nice spot
to stretch ones' legs, look at the cold water and turn around.

It attacts an awful lot of visitors just the same. If you want a
"free" beach try Seapoint Beach. It's just down the road.

Quoted message said:

I would not care if the fee was fair, in proportion to the yearly
fee the residents pay.

$5 dollars is outrageous. It is set high for one reason and one
reason only...

You could buy a season pass if you used the park frequently, But
since you weren't even aware that a gatehouse had been erected (it's
been there for many years now) I guess you're more of the casual
user and $5 per visit is fair and a better deal for you.

Quoted message said:

Kittery does not want anyone who isn't "their kind of people" in
"their" park.

Many towns and city give perks to local residents. Portsmouth's Rec
department provides free swim lessons to residents and charges $50 to
non-residents.The Peirce Island boat lauch is free to Portsmouth
residents but it would cost me $100 for a season pass.

Perhaps you just need to look around a bit more to really find the
equity you're looking for?