General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Poor Richard H Jacobson

Jan · 2003-12-26T21:58:20+00:00

From: Bubba [email hidden] Date: 5/7/02 8:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time Message-id: Rich wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]: Who are you trying to convince, Jan? Yourself, to justify your own excursion into amalgam removal, apparently without any spectacular success? Bingo!!! That is likely, IMO, exactly the motivation behind Jan obsessively posting about the dangers of mercury amalgams. Despite the fact that I have quite convincingly (except to Jan and Bubba) demonstrated, based upon Jan's history, that her health improvement is VERY VERY likely to be predominantly due to psychologic factors and that it is EXTREMELY unlikely that her health problems were due to mercury toxicity, Jan delusionally continues not only to believe that she had mercury poisoning but also believes (paranoically) that there is a vast conspiracy by the ADA to cover it all up. Sure, Rich! You couldn't support your position in our debate, but instead chose to run away not once, but twice. I suspect that there are many more members of MHA other than Jan and myself whom you have NOT convinced. Maybe you would like to take another shot at answering the questions that you could NOT address a few months ago. Have you learned anything new in that interval, Rich? Here, again, is the last post I made in our debate: Subject: Re: Psychologic factors influencing physical illness vs Amalgam Related Illness in the case of Jan Drew From: Bubba Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative ************************************************************************** NOTE TO RICH: If you respond to this post, please be sure to identify all sections which you snip (preferably with "[...]"). Thanks! ************************************************************************** Rich wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]: I thought it would be useful for me to summarize my opinion with respect to the likelihood of Jan Drew having psychologic factors influencing physical illness (peripheral neuropathy) as opposed to either Amalgam Related Illness or Mercury Poisoning and answer some pertinent questions raised about my opinion. I believe that the most compelling evidence that it is psychologic factors vs ARI or MP is the following statement by Jan Drew when she was asked how she could explain feeling better than she had in two years within days after having the amalgams removed when it is extremely unlikely that her mercury levels would have been lower and actually may have been even higher due to the procedure to remove them. Here is the statement in its entirety followed by an analysis of it. Jan Drew says: Rich for the LAST time, I said I felt better than I had in two years. That was very true. I had been very very ill and my health was deteriorating fast. After much reading and research I was convinced it was my teeth. I wasn't absolutely positivity 100% sure, but it all fit together and I knew I had to do something. It wasn't easy, what if it didn't work? That was very stressful. Finally all the work was done, the metal was out, the bill was paid, I didn't have to sit in the dentist chairs for hours with a rubber dam in my mouth!!!!!!!!!! Of course I was very relieved. A big big burden was lifted. That makes one FEEL BETTER. What's so hard to understand? I also reported I had only begun, now on to chelating the mercury from my body. With mercury poisoning, it comes and goes, I had some pretty bad spells. I'm still chelating Rich and will be for some time. I slowly am regaining my health and my PN is much better. I don't have the painful periods that I once had, and yes it was after I started taking medication. You added a few words to what I said which *implied* that I was physicially free from pain..........as in BANG I'm home free. That is NOT what I meant.............and you know it. Now do you better understand? I hope so because I feel no need to explain it AGAIN. Please respect that I didn't have to explain AGAIN this time. Jan Rich, if you really believe that this post of Jan's provides "the most compelling evidence that it is psychologic factors vs ARI or MP," then you really don't have *much* to support your position. I still don't understand why you believe that Jan's account that she experienced some relief in the days immediately following her amalgam removal is relevant to the issue of whether she does or does not have "Amalgam-Related Illness" (ARI)? First let me say that I think that it important not to take everything that Jan says at face value. Well, then you (or I) could always make claims such as 1) "although Jan said ______, she really meant ______," or 2) "when Jan said _____, she was making a false statement (or lying)." You (and I) could make up any story we wanted and attribute it to Jan (which I believe you have tried to do - see below). This is because she clearly has a vendetta against conventional medicine as reflected by her frequent kneejerk responses to most anyone who may endorse something that is also endorsed by conventional medicine invoking some kind of conspiracy using terms like "organized medicine". Jan will likely deny this but as I have said before, the proof is in the pudding. Tangential point, irrelevant to the discussion. It is also important not to take what she says at face value due to the numerous inconsistencies that she has made over the years. The above statement made by Jan Drew is important because it is likely a truthful one. I say this because Jan clearly has a very negative reaction whenever anyone suggests that she may be having a placebo response. She is extremely sensitive to even the suggestion that she may have had a placebo response so that an acknowledgement on her part (as she did above) that psychologic factors were responsible for her feeling better, at least initially is both amazing and likely true. So, Rich, it appears that you believe Jan *only* when her account supports your position. Am I correct? The explanation that Jan has provided (in the above statement) for her sense of relief is NOT the same as your "psychological factors" explanation. Therefore, her account does NOT support your claim! Although you state above that this "statement made by Jan Drew is important because it is likely a truthful one," you really don't even believe *all* of this statement, because part of it does NOT support your position (see below). So let us look at her statement more closely. In response to my question about how she could feel better than she had for two years so quickly after having the amalgams removed, Jan first admitted that she indeed did feel better than she had in two years. She then admits that after being told by Hulda Clark to check the teeth that she did some research which resulted in her being quite convinced (not 100%) that her problem was with the amalgams in her teeth. This is very important information because it reflects Jan's state of mind. Based upon her research she concluded that the mercury from her amalgams had been leeching into her system and causing her major health problems. She even believed that she was going to die as a result of this. What credible evidence do you have that either of these beliefs were unfounded? It is perfectly understandable why Jan would feel a great sense of relief following the removal of the amalgams given her state of mind. And as a result of this relief Jan felt better than she had in two years. This alone, to me, is very convincing evidence that Jan's initial improvement was very likely psychological. Jan could not have given a much more convincing statement to make my point. What evidence do you have to support *your opinion* that it is more likely that the relief Jan experienced was due to the fact that Jan believed she was no longer being exposed to the mercury from her amalgams rather than *Jan's explanation* that she was relieved because the painful, uncomfortable, and stressful amalgam removal procedure had been completed? Even after the amalgam removal procedure, Jan still had a body burden of mercury that would likely be responsible for continuing health problems for years to come. Why should she have felt relief knowing that MOST of the mercury was *still* in her body? A question was raised as to whether Jan's symptoms preceded her worrying about the amalgams. Certainly some of them did. After all she has peripheral neuropathy, a very painful and uncomfortable disease. Please list all of Jan's signs and symptoms (and their severity - on a scale of 1-10) ... 1) *before* she knew that dental amalgams might be responsible for her health problems, and 2) *after* she knew that dental amalgams might be responsible for her health problems. Fortunately for Jan the one treatment that even she admits is responsible for reducing much of her pain are the meds (Elavil and Neurontin) manufactured by those evil pharmaceutical companies that are part of organized medicine. This is a tangential comment, completely unrelated to this discussion. However following Hulda telling Jan about the dangers of amalgams Jan began to believe that she was dying. Her health really deteriorated after Hulda told Jan about the dangers of amalgams and after Jan did her research. Please provide the URL(s) to any post(s) in the Google archives where Jan wrote THAT! [...] There also has been a question about the characterization of her improvement as being psychosomatic or psych factors influencing a physical condition. Let me explain the difference between these two conditions and how it is not very relevant to the question of whether Jan's improvement was psychologic or due to the amalgams. Psychologic factors influencing physical illness is where psychologic factors are important in a preexisting physical condition. You *still* have not defined what you mean by "psychologic factors." I have asked you repeatedly to do so. ****************************************** Rich, PLEASE DEFINE "psychologic factors." Rich, PLEASE DEFINE "psychologic factors." Rich, PLEASE DEFINE "psychologic factors." Rich, PLEASE DEFINE "psychologic factors." ****************************************** This would be a more appropriate characterization for Jan's situation with respect to amalgams. What were Jan's preexisting physical conditions with respect to amalgams? Psychosomatic disorder refers to a physical condition which arises to significant degree by psychologic factors such as anxiety, paranoia, etc. FYI, the current DSM-IV-TR classification that has replaced "psychosomatic disorder" is Somatoform Disorders. "Psychosomatic disorder" is NOT a valid psychiatric diagnosis. I have expressed my opinion that Jan's problems are psychosomatic as well as due to psychologic factors influencing a physical condition. Are you changing your position AGAIN? They are not mutually exclusive. I believe there is good evidence that she has BOTH. Is it possible that Jan has *all* of the following conditions?: 1) ARI 2) "psychosomatic factors" (whatever they are) 3) one of Somatoform Disorders Isn't the probability that an individual has all three "conditions" almost the same as the probability that that same individual has only the last two? In the case of the PN it is latter. Her belief that she was infested with multiple parasites was, for example, likely the latter. This is my opinion. I am not 100% sure of it. Does Jan meet the criteria of any of the DSM-IV-TR Somatoform Disorders? If she does NOT, then she does NOT have a Somatoform Disorder. (Please use the correct terminology in the future.) Jan does NOT have a "psychosomatic condition"! That is NO longer a valid psychiatric diagnosis! Jan Drew's animosity toward conventional medicine is a matter of record that she will likely deny. I can only suggest that people read her posts to see what I mean. The proof is in the pudding as it were. This statement of yours is completely tangential to this discussion. Jan has reported improvement with so many different unproven alternative methods over the years that makes it quite likely that her improvements are due to psychologic factors. The other explanation is that all these alt treatments were effective for her serious ailments. I will allow others to come to their own determination. There are other equally likely explanations. Check out the following link for some clues: Why Bogus Therapies Seem to Work, by Barry L. Beyerstein http://www.csicop.org/si/9709/beyer.html Several of these explanations do NOT require a psychological mechanism. What evidence do you have that your explanation is more likely than these other non-psychological mechanisms? While I personally don't think that all alt treatments are complete quackery, I am doubtful that so many of them (as reported by Jan) can be helpful other than for psychologic reasons. This is just my opinion. I am not 100% certain of it. Just because Jan has had some treatments that might have not have had *any* efficacy in treating her conditions (but from which she believes she has derived some benefit) does NOT mean that she does not have ARI and has not had a significant improvement in her health as a result of the amalgam removal. Another points raised was the Jan's comments should be taken at face value or else we will be shooting at a moving target. With all due respect, anyone who thinks that it is reasonable to take her comments at face value is deluding himself. And with respect to shooting at a moving target, perhaps you have not been reading Jan's many comments over the years because her numerous contradictions define a moving target. Anyone who is familiar with Jan's history knows exactly what I am talking about. For example when I posted the exact statement that Jan made regarding feeling better than she had in two years , she said that I lied. But I did not. I quote exactly. Once I left out "two years" and just said "years" because I did not recall how many and Jan accused me of lying then too. Jan has an interesting way of defining "lying" as most of you are quite aware by her numerous accusations while ridiculing OTHERS for calling people liars. Well then, Rich, maybe I should just "reinterpret" Jan's comments, too, to bolster *my* position. Right!!! Another point raised was my certainty of her having a particular psychiatric diagnosis. You have NOT supported your claim with a valid psychiatric diagnosis. Please do so. While I often weigh in with my opinion I ALSO specifically advise people to seek out qualified professional help to reach diagnoses and that no one should accept anyone's opinion (including mine) in this newsgroup. This is a discussion newsgroup for expressing opinions. I advise NO ONE to accept my diagnoses as definitive and have frequently stated this. And with respect to the question of how one can rule out amalgam related illness or mercury related illness in this case we cannot. You have NOT answered these questions I posted previously: So, you *do* agree that it is *possible* for Jan's health problems to be the result of her mercury exposures from her amalgams? 1) How would someone rule out that possibility? 2) How would *you* rule out that possibility? 3) In what ways would Jan's account have to differ for you to find it credible? Do you know that one of the exclusionary criteria for the Somatoform Disorders is that the patient's symptoms cannot be explained by the "direct effects of a substance" (e.g, mercury)? Of course I cannot also rule out interplanetary alien influence either. It has been suggested that my comment about interplanetary alien influence is a stupid skeptic trick. My response is two fold. One: Please provide specific evidence that ARI or MP is more likely than IAI. How would you go about ruling out IAI?? Please be specific since you claimed that my analogy was a stupid skeptic trick. Rich, in a previous post, you implied that the probability that Jan experienced relief immediately following her amalgam removal was about the same as the probability that her relief was due to some "interplanetary influence." Is that your position? If so, it is a claim, which you have the responsibility to support. I have made NO claim! Btw, I know of several individuals who thought that they had electronic devices planted in their amalgams by interplanetary aliens and following the removal all the symptoms that they experienced disappeared with removal of the amalgams. Note that this is PURELY anecdotal, and I don't personally believe the conclusions arrived at by these individuals is true. I only bring it up to illustrate a point. That point is that one cannot rule out with 100% certainty anything. Irrelevant, tangential, self-serving, smug statement. [...] Another point is that I asked for a scenario that would indicate that Jan's problem was likely psychologic and was told that if she had white amalgams replacing the silver ones that would be the case. It was later pointed out that white amalgams don't exist. I was given a completely specious criterium for the belief that the cause was likely psychologic. Of course without knowing a person's baseline for believing in a psychologic etiology or exacerbation from psych problems it is very difficult to have a meaningful discussion. No, it isn't! If you were confident enough in your opinion to make a number of posts that Jan's account (i.e., that she believed that mercury exposures had an adverse physiological effect on her health, and NOT just through some purely psychological mechanism) was a "bogus claim," then you should have *plenty* of evidence to convince even the most die-hard skeptic that you are right! Rich, this debate should be a slam-dunk for you! I don't have to prove a thing! You are trying to deflect this discussion from the claims you have made, which you have the responsibility to support with credible evidence! I have made NO claims! I hope that I have been clear in my opinion and reasons for my opinion. I elected to make all these comments in a single post rather than to answer specific questions in another post so my reasoning and rationale for my opinions would be clear. I hope that I have answered all questions that are *relevant* to the issue at hand. I prefer not to get side tracked with tangential issues. You have *not* answered all of the relevant questions. I would be happy to answer any substantive questions related to this discussion but will likely decline to answer any tangential or irrelevant questions that are designed to deflect from the issue at hand realizing that that may trigger someone to impulsively kill file me again. I also hope that this discussion can be continued without the hurling of insults. I am trying my best to raise the level of discussion here, recognizing that I am not always successful in achieving that goal. Why don't we both agree NOT to engage in *any* sidebar discussions on MHA regarding anything discussed in this thread or anything concerning this thread (e.g., who made the best point in the most recent post)? And how would you characterize what you have written in the preceding two paragraph, if not an insult? Another point is that this is an open discussion group and NOT for one on one discussion. It is not appropriate in my opinion to discourage others from participating in the discussion. If people want to have a one on one discussion it would be better handled through e-mail. Fine. I'm still not going to respond to any posts about this topic (in a substantive manner) other than yours. Rich -- Bubba

Started by Jan · 26 December 2003 · Last activity 27 December 2003 · 8 posts · 760 views

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Original section: General fitness, health and nutrition
Published: 26 December 2003
Last activity: 27 December 2003
Original author: Jan
Posts: 8
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Original post
Jan
Archived post

26 December 2003, 21:58 UTC #1

From: Bubba [email hidden]
Quoted message said:
Date: 5/7/02 8:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
Rich <,@.> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:
Quoted message said:
P Moran said:
Who are you trying to convince, Jan? Yourself, to justify your own excursion into amalgam
removal, apparently without any spectacular success?
Bingo!!! That is likely, IMO, exactly the motivation behind Jan obsessively posting about the
dangers of mercury amalgams. Despite the fact that I have quite convincingly (except to Jan and
Bubba) demonstrated, based upon Jan's history, that her health improvement is VERY VERY likely to
be predominantly due to psychologic factors and that it is EXTREMELY unlikely that her health
problems were due to mercury toxicity, Jan delusionally continues not only to believe that she
had mercury poisoning but also believes (paranoically) that there is a vast conspiracy by the ADA
to cover it all up.
Sure, Rich! You couldn't support your position in our debate, but instead chose to run away not
once, but twice. I suspect that there are many more members of MHA other than Jan and myself whom
you have NOT convinced.
Maybe you would like to take another shot at answering the questions that you could NOT address a
few months ago. Have you learned anything new in that interval, Rich?
Here, again, is the last post I made in our debate:
Subject: Re: Psychologic factors influencing physical illness vs Amalgam Related Illness in the
case of Jan Drew From: Bubba <[email hidden]> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
**************************************************************************
NOTE TO RICH:
If you respond to this post, please be sure to identify all sections which you snip (preferably
with "[...]"😉. Thanks!
**************************************************************************
Rich <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:
Quoted message said:
I thought it would be useful for me to summarize my opinion with respect to the likelihood of Jan
Drew having psychologic factors influencing physical illness (peripheral neuropathy) as opposed
to either Amalgam Related Illness or Mercury Poisoning and answer some pertinent questions raised
about my opinion.
I believe that the most compelling evidence that it is psychologic factors vs ARI or MP is the
following statement by Jan Drew when she was asked how she could explain feeling better than she
had in two years within days after having the amalgams removed when it is extremely unlikely that
her mercury levels would have been lower and actually may have been even higher due to the
procedure to remove them.
Here is the statement in its entirety followed by an analysis of it.
Quoted message said:
Jan Drew says: Rich for the LAST time, I said I felt better than I had in two years. That was
very true. I had been very very ill and my health was deteriorating fast. After much reading and
research I was convinced it was my teeth. I wasn't absolutely positivity 100% sure, but it all
fit together and I knew I had to do something. It wasn't easy, what if it didn't work? That was
very stressful.
Finally all the work was done, the metal was out, the bill was paid, I didn't have to sit in the
dentist chairs for hours with a rubber dam in my mouth!!!!!!!!!! Of course I was very relieved. A
big big burden was lifted. That makes one FEEL BETTER.
What's so hard to understand?
I also reported I had only begun, now on to chelating the mercury from my body. With mercury
poisoning, it comes and goes, I had some pretty bad spells. I'm still chelating Rich and will be
for some time. I slowly am regaining my health and my PN is much better. I don't have the painful
periods that I once had, and yes it was after I started taking medication.
You added a few words to what I said which *implied* that I was physicially free from
pain..........as in BANG I'm home free. That is NOT what I meant.............and you know it.
Now do you better understand? I hope so because I feel no need to explain it AGAIN. Please
respect that I didn't have to explain AGAIN this time.
Jan
Rich, if you really believe that this post of Jan's provides "the most compelling evidence that it
is psychologic factors vs ARI or MP," then you really don't have *much* to support your position.
I still don't understand why you believe that Jan's account that she experienced some relief in the
days immediately following her amalgam removal is relevant to the issue of whether she does or does
not have "Amalgam-Related Illness" (ARI)?
Quoted message said:
First let me say that I think that it important not to take everything that Jan says at
face value.
Well, then you (or I) could always make claims such as
1) "although Jan said ______, she really meant ______," or
2) "when Jan said _____, she was making a false statement (or lying)."
You (and I) could make up any story we wanted and attribute it to Jan (which I believe you have
tried to do - see below).
Quoted message said:
This is because she clearly has a vendetta against conventional medicine as reflected by her
frequent kneejerk responses to most anyone who may endorse something that is also endorsed by
conventional medicine invoking some kind of conspiracy using terms like "organized medicine". Jan
will likely deny this but as I have said before, the proof is in the pudding.
Tangential point, irrelevant to the discussion.
Quoted message said:
It is also important not to take what she says at face value due to the numerous inconsistencies
that she has made over the years.
The above statement made by Jan Drew is important because it is likely a truthful one. I say
this because Jan clearly has a very negative reaction whenever anyone suggests that she may be
having a placebo response. She is extremely sensitive to even the suggestion that she may have
had a placebo response so that an acknowledgement on her part (as she did above) that
psychologic factors were responsible for her feeling better, at least initially is both amazing
and likely true.
So, Rich, it appears that you believe Jan *only* when her account supports your position. Am
I correct?
The explanation that Jan has provided (in the above statement) for her sense of relief is NOT
the same as your "psychological factors" explanation. Therefore, her account does NOT support
your claim!
Although you state above that this "statement made by Jan Drew is important because it is likely a
truthful one," you really don't even believe *all* of this statement, because part of it does NOT
support your position (see below).
Quoted message said:
So let us look at her statement more closely.
In response to my question about how she could feel better than she had for two years so quickly
after having the amalgams removed, Jan first admitted that she indeed did feel better than she
had in two years.
She then admits that after being told by Hulda Clark to check the teeth that she did some
research which resulted in her being quite convinced (not 100%) that her problem was with the
amalgams in her teeth. This is very important information because it reflects Jan's state of
mind. Based upon her research she concluded that the mercury from her amalgams had been leeching
into her system and causing her major health problems. She even believed that she was going to
die as a result of this.
What credible evidence do you have that either of these beliefs were unfounded?
Quoted message said:
It is perfectly understandable why Jan would feel a great sense of relief following the removal
of the amalgams given her state of mind. And as a result of this relief Jan felt better than she
had in two years.
This alone, to me, is very convincing evidence that Jan's initial improvement was very likely
psychological. Jan could not have given a much more convincing statement to make my point.
What evidence do you have to support *your opinion* that it is more likely that the relief Jan
experienced was due to the fact that Jan believed she was no longer being exposed to the mercury
from her amalgams rather than *Jan's explanation* that she was relieved because the painful,
uncomfortable, and stressful amalgam removal procedure had been completed?
Even after the amalgam removal procedure, Jan still had a body burden of mercury that would likely
be responsible for continuing health problems for years to come. Why should she have felt relief
knowing that MOST of the mercury was *still* in her body?
Quoted message said:
A question was raised as to whether Jan's symptoms preceded her worrying about the amalgams.
Certainly some of them did. After all she has peripheral neuropathy, a very painful and
uncomfortable disease.
Please list all of Jan's signs and symptoms (and their severity - on a scale of 1-10) ...
1) *before* she knew that dental amalgams might be responsible for her health problems, and
2) *after* she knew that dental amalgams might be responsible for her health problems.
Quoted message said:
Fortunately for Jan the one treatment that even she admits is responsible for reducing much of
her pain are the meds (Elavil and Neurontin) manufactured by those evil pharmaceutical companies
that are part of organized medicine.
This is a tangential comment, completely unrelated to this discussion.
Quoted message said:
However following Hulda telling Jan about the dangers of amalgams Jan began to believe that she
was dying. Her health really deteriorated after Hulda told Jan about the dangers of amalgams and
after Jan did her research.
Please provide the URL(s) to any post(s) in the Google archives where Jan wrote THAT!
[...]
Quoted message said:
There also has been a question about the characterization of her improvement as being
psychosomatic or psych factors influencing a physical condition. Let me explain the difference
between these two conditions and how it is not very relevant to the question of whether Jan's
improvement was psychologic or due to the amalgams.
Psychologic factors influencing physical illness is where psychologic factors are important in a
preexisting physical condition.
You *still* have not defined what you mean by "psychologic factors." I have asked you repeatedly
to do so.
******************************************
Rich, PLEASE DEFINE "psychologic factors."
Rich, PLEASE DEFINE "psychologic factors."
Rich, PLEASE DEFINE "psychologic factors."
Rich, PLEASE DEFINE "psychologic factors."
******************************************
Quoted message said:
This would be a more appropriate characterization for Jan's situation with respect to amalgams.
What were Jan's preexisting physical conditions with respect to amalgams?
Quoted message said:
Psychosomatic disorder refers to a physical condition which arises to significant degree by
psychologic factors such as anxiety, paranoia, etc.
FYI, the current DSM-IV-TR classification that has replaced "psychosomatic disorder" is Somatoform
Disorders.
"Psychosomatic disorder" is NOT a valid psychiatric diagnosis.
Quoted message said:
I have expressed my opinion that Jan's problems are psychosomatic as well as due to psychologic
factors influencing a physical condition.
Are you changing your position AGAIN?
Quoted message said:
They are not mutually exclusive. I believe there is good evidence that she has BOTH.
Is it possible that Jan has *all* of the following conditions?:
1) ARI
2) "psychosomatic factors" (whatever they are)
3) one of Somatoform Disorders
Isn't the probability that an individual has all three "conditions" almost the same as the
probability that that same individual has only the last two?
Quoted message said:
In the case of the PN it is latter. Her belief that she was infested with multiple parasites was,
for example, likely the latter. This is my opinion. I am not 100% sure of it.
Does Jan meet the criteria of any of the DSM-IV-TR Somatoform Disorders?
If she does NOT, then she does NOT have a Somatoform Disorder. (Please use the correct terminology
in the future.)
Jan does NOT have a "psychosomatic condition"! That is NO longer a valid psychiatric diagnosis!
Quoted message said:
Jan Drew's animosity toward conventional medicine is a matter of record that she will likely
deny. I can only suggest that people read her posts to see what I mean. The proof is in the
pudding as it were.
This statement of yours is completely tangential to this discussion.
Quoted message said:
Jan has reported improvement with so many different unproven alternative methods over the years
that makes it quite likely that her improvements are due to psychologic factors. The other
explanation is that all these alt treatments were effective for her serious ailments. I will
allow others to come to their own determination.
There are other equally likely explanations. Check out the following link for some clues:
Why Bogus Therapies Seem to Work, by Barry L. Beyerstein
csicop.orgbeyer.html
Several of these explanations do NOT require a psychological mechanism. What evidence do you have
that your explanation is more likely than these other non-psychological mechanisms?
Quoted message said:
While I personally don't think that all alt treatments are complete quackery, I am doubtful that
so many of them (as reported by Jan) can be helpful other than for psychologic reasons. This is
just my opinion. I am not 100% certain of it.
Just because Jan has had some treatments that might have not have had *any* efficacy in treating
her conditions (but from which she believes she has derived some benefit) does NOT mean that she
does not have ARI and has not had a significant improvement in her health as a result of the
amalgam removal.
Quoted message said:
Another points raised was the Jan's comments should be taken at face value or else we will be
shooting at a moving target. With all due respect, anyone who thinks that it is reasonable to
take her comments at face value is deluding himself. And with respect to shooting at a moving
target, perhaps you have not been reading Jan's many comments over the years because her numerous
contradictions define a moving target. Anyone who is familiar with Jan's history knows exactly
what I am talking about. For example when I posted the exact statement that Jan made regarding
feeling better than she had in two years , she said that I lied. But I did not. I quote exactly.
Once I left out "two years" and just said "years" because I did not recall how many and Jan
accused me of lying then too. Jan has an interesting way of defining "lying" as most of you are
quite aware by her numerous accusations while ridiculing OTHERS for calling people liars.
Well then, Rich, maybe I should just "reinterpret" Jan's comments, too, to bolster *my*
position. Right!!!
Quoted message said:
Another point raised was my certainty of her having a particular psychiatric diagnosis.
You have NOT supported your claim with a valid psychiatric diagnosis. Please do so.
Quoted message said:
While I often weigh in with my opinion I ALSO specifically advise people to seek out qualified
professional help to reach diagnoses and that no one should accept anyone's opinion (including
mine) in this newsgroup. This is a discussion newsgroup for expressing opinions. I advise NO ONE
to accept my diagnoses as definitive and have frequently stated this.
And with respect to the question of how one can rule out amalgam related illness or mercury
related illness in this case we cannot.
You have NOT answered these questions I posted previously:
So, you *do* agree that it is *possible* for Jan's health problems to be the result of her mercury
exposures from her amalgams?
1) How would someone rule out that possibility?
2) How would *you* rule out that possibility?
3) In what ways would Jan's account have to differ for you to find it credible?
Do you know that one of the exclusionary criteria for the Somatoform Disorders is that the
patient's symptoms cannot be explained by the "direct effects of a substance" (e.g, mercury)?
Quoted message said:
Of course I cannot also rule out interplanetary alien influence either. It has been suggested
that my comment about interplanetary alien influence is a stupid skeptic trick. My response is
two fold. One: Please provide specific evidence that ARI or MP is more likely than IAI. How would
you go about ruling out IAI?? Please be specific since you claimed that my analogy was a stupid
skeptic trick.
Rich, in a previous post, you implied that the probability that Jan experienced relief immediately
following her amalgam removal was about the same as the probability that her relief was due to some
"interplanetary influence." Is that your position? If so, it is a claim, which you have the
responsibility to support. I have made NO claim!
Quoted message said:
Btw, I know of several individuals who thought that they had electronic devices planted in their
amalgams by interplanetary aliens and following the removal all the symptoms that they
experienced disappeared with removal of the amalgams. Note that this is PURELY anecdotal, and I
don't personally believe the conclusions arrived at by these individuals is true. I only bring it
up to illustrate a point. That point is that one cannot rule out with 100% certainty anything.
Irrelevant, tangential, self-serving, smug statement.
[...]
Quoted message said:
Another point is that I asked for a scenario that would indicate that Jan's problem was likely
psychologic and was told that if she had white amalgams replacing the silver ones that would be
the case. It was later pointed out that white amalgams don't exist. I was given a completely
specious criterium for the belief that the cause was likely psychologic. Of course without
knowing a person's baseline for believing in a psychologic etiology or exacerbation from psych
problems it is very difficult to have a meaningful discussion.
No, it isn't! If you were confident enough in your opinion to make a number of posts that Jan's
account (i.e., that she believed that mercury exposures had an adverse physiological effect on her
health, and NOT just through some purely psychological mechanism) was a "bogus claim," then you
should have *plenty* of evidence to convince even the most die-hard skeptic that you are right!
Rich, this debate should be a slam-dunk for you!
I don't have to prove a thing! You are trying to deflect this discussion from the claims you have
made, which you have the responsibility to support with credible evidence! I have made NO claims!
Quoted message said:
I hope that I have been clear in my opinion and reasons for my opinion. I elected to make all
these comments in a single post rather than to answer specific questions in another post so my
reasoning and rationale for my opinions would be clear. I hope that I have answered all questions
that are *relevant* to the issue at hand. I prefer not to get side tracked with tangential
issues.
You have *not* answered all of the relevant questions.
Quoted message said:
I would be happy to answer any substantive questions related to this discussion but will likely
decline to answer any tangential or irrelevant questions that are designed to deflect from the
issue at hand realizing that that may trigger someone to impulsively kill file me again.
I also hope that this discussion can be continued without the hurling of insults. I am trying my
best to raise the level of discussion here, recognizing that I am not always successful in
achieving that goal.
Why don't we both agree NOT to engage in *any* sidebar discussions on MHA regarding anything
discussed in this thread or anything concerning this thread (e.g., who made the best point in the
most recent post)?
And how would you characterize what you have written in the preceding two paragraph, if not
an insult?
Quoted message said:
Another point is that this is an open discussion group and NOT for one on one discussion. It is
not appropriate in my opinion to discourage others from participating in the discussion. If
people want to have a one on one discussion it would be better handled through e-mail.
Fine. I'm still not going to respond to any posts about this topic (in a substantive manner) other
than yours.
Quoted message said:
Rich
--
Bubba

Report
Happy Oyster
Archived post

26 December 2003, 21:58 UTC #2

On 26 Dec 2003 20:49:28 GMT, [email hidden] (Jan) wrote:
Jan Drew persists to use foul language, to lie, to forge --- and all this to do advertizing for the
naturopath mafia.
Jan Drew is one of the most outrageous liars I have ever seen in the net.
FAQ about Jan Drew's advertizing for quackery
*********************************************
Updated, December, 19th., 2003
Hello,
in this and other news-groups a person who calls himself Jan Drew, is massively
advertizing quackery.
1. List of Web-Sites Jan Drew is advertizing for
2. Nicknames and persons involved in the Jan Drew scam
3. Cui bono ? Mercola disguises as "Jan Drew"
4. Jan Drew confesses his forgeries
5. A look at Jan Drew's list of lies with URLs (internet links)
6. Jan Drew works for Scientology
7. Jan Drew works for Hulda Clark
8. "$KaChing is Working!!"
9. Deadly fraud in the healthcare system
10. "The Importance of Mass Name Calling"
11. Jan Drew and the Attack on the WTC, Jan Drew's Antisemitism
12. The "Jew boy" case
13. Jan Drew Lied About Having Mercury Poisoning from Amalgams
14. The foul language of Jan Drew
15. Jan Drew's rhetorical warfare
16. Children die because of criminals like Jan Drew
17. List of Web-Sites Jan Drew is advertizing for
################################################
[naturopath mafia-based] 800ga.comparasites.htm
home.vicnet.net.auparasites.html all-natural.comholistic.html
yourhealthbase.comalternative medicine.html
doctortalk.comcancer & oxygen.php alternativemedicine.comi22
a12.shtml thinktwice.comploys.htm
healingwithnutrition.comvitce.html
quackpotwatch.orgchelation%20bill.htm
abcnews.go.comsept11HS 508939AlternativeCancerTreatments020910.
html curezone.comf.asp aznetnews.comstory.php
hospitalsantamonica.comid45.htm holistic-dentistry.comartamalgam.asp
hugnet.comprotocol.html heart-disease-bypass-surgery.com63.htm
mercola.commercola.com alkalizeforhealth.netalkalizeforhealth.net
[Scientology-based articles]
enquirer.comloc drugging our kids.html
antipsychiatry.orgdrsmith1.htm
(List will be updated)
18. Nicknames and persons involved in the Jan Drew scam
######################################################
Nicknames and names of persons who help Jan Drew in his scam, or perhaps are nothing but other masks
of Mercola :
"Dave" <[email hidden]> "Rod" <[email hidden]> "Teacher" <[email hidden]>
"David" <[email hidden]> "ChuckMSRD" [email hidden] "Anth" <[email hidden]>
This list will be updated.
Note: ALL supporters of Jan Drew will be entered in this list !
Keep in mind these very true words :
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:10:32 GMT, Rich<,@.> wrote in misc.health.alternative :
<quote> [...] There is one positive aspect of having Jan Drew post here though; if someone supports
her then you can be sure that this person cannot be trusted either. Anyone who reads Jan Drew's
bigoted, hateful and dishonest posts and supports her tells you much about their own integrity.
And you can be reasonably certain that Jan Drew is reading all the posts of the people she claims
that she has kill filed. The only reason that she kill files people is to give her plausible
deniability in her failure to reconcile her contradictory statements that are frequently brought up
to her. </quote>
3. Cui bono ?
##############
A strong clue on who is responsible for the criminal deeds are the connections to those who cash in
the money.
Mercola and Klinghardt are known charlatans. Jan Drew advertizes for them. But Jan Drew does more
than that !
A posting from Jan Drew into news:misc.health.alternative impressively demonstrates the background :
<quote> Lines: 40 X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 29 Aug 2003 20:19:06 GMT References:
<[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re:
The Greatest Lie Ever Told Message-ID: <[email hidden]> Xref:
news.freenet.de misc.health.alternative:313197
Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Told From: "Anth" [email hidden] Date: 8/29/2003 1:26 AM Pacific
Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
She does? Anth
Quoted message said:

"Happy Oyster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Jan Drew abuses the works of honorable scientists. Jan Drew mixes up true facts with naturopath
nonsense and this way forces people to buy quackery.
Jan Drew walks over bodies. Don't let them be yours!
Well now, that fits right in with the greatest lie ever told.
I posted a website. I mixed nothing, I abused nothing, I adsvertize nothing, I have never forced
people to do anything.
Happy is the liar, making all kinds of false statements
When in fact it tells on the website, the many works of different researchers.
Dr. Vimy holds the rank of Clinical Associate Professor, Department of Medicine, Faculty of Medicine
at the University of Calgary
Ds. Vimy is one of the top mercury researchers in the world and his comments to the ADA press
release are most informative. You can review the article I published with Dr. Klinghardt earlier
this year for further information on mercury detoxification.
Jan
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the
people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein </quote>
Jan Drew writes IN HIS OWN WORDS, with himself as the center person of the text :
<quote> When in fact it tells on the website, the many works of different researchers.
Dt. Vimy holds the rank of Clinical Associate Professor, Department of Medicine, Faculty of Medicine
at the University of Calgary
Du. Vimy is one of the top mercury researchers in the world and his comments to the ADA press
release are most informative. You can review the article I published with Dr. Klinghardt earlier
this year for ************************************************************* +++ further
information on mercury detoxification.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jan </quote>
So Jan Drew published an article together with Klinghardt.
Now, WHO IS "JAN DREW" !?
A clue can be found by searching for news postings by Jan Drew containing the word "Klinghardt",
dated "earlier this year".
We find a posting dated "09 Feb 2003 00:29:57 GMT" : (Underlign marks made by me.)
<quote> X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 09 Feb 2003 00:29:57 GMT References: <[email hidden]>
Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: Mercury Toxicity Message-ID: <20030208192957.25214.00000251@mb-
cf.aol.com>
mercola.commercury elimination.htm
Mercury
Toxicity and Systemic Elimination Agents
The following paper has been a long time in the making. I first wrote it nearly three years ago and
it was initially rejected by the Lancet and the British Medical Journal but was published last month
in the Journal of Nutritional and Environmental Medicine (March 2001). The end of the article has
the bibliography which took quite awhile to compile and has 124 of the best literature documentation
I could find on mercury detoxification. For a practical summary of the paper and exactly what one
should do, please review my mercury detoxification protocol. Dr. Klinghardt is widely recognized as
one of the most
**************
knowledgeable physicians in mercury detoxification and it was a
********
privilege to be able to help him with this paper.
*************************************************
<quote>
Jan Drew (remember the "I" !) here completely copies an article --- written by Mercola TOGETHER with
Klinghardt.
This article is "on mercury detoxification".
So we can strongly say that "Jan Drew" actually is Mercola.
Mercola is writing masses of articles, and he pours out an enourmous mass of advertizing for his
charlatan comrades, boosting his and their sales...
4. Jan Drew confesses his forgeries
###################################
In the following posting Jan Drew confesses to have taken someone else's words and posted them in
the net as his, Jan Drew's, own words
:
<quote> Path: news.freenet.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!easynews.net!newsfeed3.easynews.net!newsfeed.arcor-
online.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news-
t.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-
m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 28 X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Date: 18 Nov 2003 04:13:48 GMT References:
<[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: Jan
Drew is a forger Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
From: Happy Oyster [email hidden] Date: 11/17/2003 4:17 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-
id: <[email hidden]>
Happy is not playing with a full deck.
As anyone can see this bit about me being Mercola is absurd.
mercola.comada.htm
<snip>
Dv. MERCOLA'S COMMENT:
Dw. Vimy is one of the top mercury researchers in the world and his comments to the ADA press
release are most informative. You can review the article I published with Dr. Klinghardt earlier
this year for further information on mercury detoxification. Thanks to Jeff Green of Citizens
for Health for sending this very interesting timeline regarding the dental use of mercury.
Took 16 seconds to find it.
I have posted it previously.
Jan
Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time. John Bain </quote>
So, far all to see, Jan Drew confesses to have taken Mercola's words, and to have have posted them
as his, Jan Drew's very own words.
Do not forget the "I", by which Jan Drew makes these words HIS VERY OWN.
5. A look at Jan Drew's list of lies with URLs (internet links)
###############################################################
A great deal of Jan Drew's postings are lists of URLs (internet links to web-pages). Jan Drew
selects those pages and only takes those which seed fear and hatred against scientific medicine.
Jan Drew defames scientific medicine as "Evil Organized Medizine".
In a posting of november 5th., 2003, Dr. Steve shows what such a list really contains :
<quote> From: "Dr. Steve" <[email hidden]> Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry
References: <[email hidden]>
<[email hidden]> Subject: Re: 3rd Opinion - Root Canal Question Message-ID:
<[email hidden]> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 01:07:35 GMT
. "Ja," <[email hidden]> wrote in message
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
If jdrmmm,,,,[email hidden] (Jan) responds you may wish to consider the

source.
Quoted message said:

I wasn't going to respond, but now that this has been said, do consider

the
Quoted message said:
source and see the source of each website.
zip.com.auRCTframeset.htm
A site making money on people's fear of Hg poisoning. Just a dental office in Nepal.
Quoted message said:
ericdavisdental.comroot canals.htm
An Australian dentist with a really bad wig. Trying to make money on people's fear of Hg poisoning.
Quoted message said:
whale.toroot2.html
A letter written to Dr. Huggins, with no proof it was ever mailed. The dental links on the home page
lead to a Dr. Nara's web page. They sell books on th evils of Hg in dentistry.
Quoted message said:
drshankland.comrootcanal.html
Web page of Dr. Shankland who is selling books. He likes to quote Dr. Price's research from 1918 and
ignore all the research since then.
Quoted message said:
webpages.charter.netrootcanals.htm
An anedotal report by some lay-person who bought a book by Dr. Meinig and hopes you will buy one his
books too.
Quoted message said:
dentistry-toothtruth.comfaq.htm
A web site that just sells a book.
Quoted message said:
cfsn.commaz
An advertisement for Melisa Medica Foundation selling (guess what?) disguised as some unfortunate
souls suffering personal story.
Quoted message said:
cnorman.best.vwh.netdental.html
Advertisement for the Blazing Tattles Newsletteer (they sell this) once again disquised as a story.
Quoted message said:
rheumatic.orgteeth.htm
Another advertisement for Dr. Meining's book.
Quoted message said:
zip.com.auroot therapies.htm
Another link to the Nepal dental office.
Quoted message said:
zap.intergate.caroot.html
Dr, Meining again.
Quoted message said:
toothwisdom.nettoothwisdom.net
Link to a dental office with a legal disclaimer section two pages long
Quoted message said:
dentistryholistic.comeducation.html
A link to asome guy's dental office who has no idea of current dental thinking.
Quoted message said:
hugnet.comRoot Canals.html
Guess what? A site to sell books.
Quoted message said:
karlloren.comp25.htm
This guy is selling a special diet.
Quoted message said:
hallvtox.dircon.co.ukhallvt.html
Link to a dental office in the UK which sells,,,,,,,,,,,, did you guess? A BOOK!!!!
Now I see why I prefer to filter ja. dre.. posts
PLEASE, any lay people reading this, understand this lady/man/posting program refered to as ja. dre.
and a bunch of numbers reminiscent of Disney's Stitch character,,,,,, lies,,,, and tries to get you
to spoil your health and spend all your money on bogus treatment which NOT improve your health in
any way. </quote>
6. Jan Drew works for Scientology
#################################
This is one of the examples where you can see, how Jan Drew defends Scientology. Jan Drew CLAIMS to
be interested in naturopathy, but actually Jan Drew is an advertizing agency. Jan Drew's behavior is
typical for this breed...
Example 1: <quote> X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 21 Sep 2003 00:40:47 GMT References:
<[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re:
"Psychbusters" = CCHR = $cientology Cult FRONT Message-ID: <20030920204047.18243.00001203@mb-
m06.aol.com>
Quoted message said:
Subject: "Psychbusters" = CCHR = $cientology Cult FRONT From: Nomen Nescio [email hidden] Date:
9/20/2003 1:20 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
$cientology member
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz </quote>
Example 2: <quote> X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 22 Sep 2003 02:51:58 GMT References:
<[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: Scientology's
advertising in these newsgroups Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Subject: Scientology's advertising in these newsgroups From: [email hidden] (Fredric L.
Rice) Date: 9/21/2003 12:33 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
<[email hidden]>
You might have read a posting by some anonymous Scientologist
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz </quote>
Example 3: <quote> X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 22 Sep 2003 02:53:00 GMT References:
<[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: What is
$cientology? - A posting by an ex-member to answer reports of recent Scientology postings Message-
ID: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
What is $cientology?
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ </quote>
Example 4: <quote> From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Date: 06 Oct
2003 05:29:16 GMT References: <[email hidden]> Subject: Re: Committee On
House Reform - ADHD Drugs Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: Committee On House Reform - ADHD Drugs From: Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
Date: 10/5/2003 9:10 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
<[email hidden]>
(Jan) said:
TESTIMONY BY LISA MARIE PRESLEY INTERNATIONAL SPOKESPERSON FOR CHILDREN'S RIGHTS, FOR CITIZENS
COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS

INTERNATIONAL
A Scientologist appearing on behalf of a Scientology front group. Now that's something you don't
see every day.
Umm, you are seeing ADHD hearings.
Listen up, rather than the same ole same ole of the Scientology excuses.
You are an intolerant fascist bigot. </quote>
7. Jan Drew works for Hulda Clark
#################################
In a posting dated november, 16th, 2003, Jan Drew advertizes for Hulda Clark, a known criminal
charlatan.
The "zapper" does not kill bacteria. The claims by Jan Drew are outrageous lies.
<quote> Lines: 47 X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 16 Nov 2003 07:00:50 GMT References: <Go-dnVn9E-
[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: Zapper kills
infectious bacteria Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-
Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Subject: Zapper kills infectious bacteria From: "f®Èé RådicaL" [email hidden] Date: 11/15/2003
10:52 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
Hi all. I'd like to report that I've used a zapper for a few years now and it does seem to work on
infectious bacteria, based on my experience.
I originally built a zapper (I have a degree in electrical engineering) from Radio Shack parts
using the plans in Hulda Clark's book. I tried it for awhile to kill intestinal parasites and then
stopped using it. A few years later I developed a high fever with a serious left ear infection to
the point where I could feel pressure on the ear drum. I decided to try the zapper. I ran it for
about 10 minutes holding the copper electrodes in my hands. About an hour later, green pus started
coming out of my left tear duct. Obviously, the bacteria in the ear or tear duct were dying in
great numbers, creating the resultant pus which was forced out the tear duct. This alarmed me (I
didn't completely trust the zapper at that point) and ran to the doctor for antibiotics, to be on
the safe side.
I have since used a zapper whenever I feel a fever or scratchy throat coming on, or when a lot of
people are getting sick at the office. Typically the fever/scratchy throat is gone overnight after
using it. It still takes some time to get over the feeling of being sick, but at least the zapper
keeps the infection under control so I don't need to run to the doctor anymore for antibiotics. For
me the worst part of being sick is the fever, which the zapper seems to break very quickly.
Does anyone else (besides the usual anti-quackers) in this group have anything of interest to
report about using a zapper? I suggest the skeptics build or buy one and try it on themselves
before dismissing it outright. BTW I don't have any financial interest in Hulda Clark or any zapper-
related products.
Yes, my hubby built one, then later I bought one that clips on to free up your hands. It works for
most any condition you feel coming on. It works for parasites just as she says, it also works on my
doggy. I also have no financial interest, however I do know Hulda personally, as her son was in my
daycare years ago. She may be wrong about some things, she is 100% correct about the teeth. She is a
loving and caring very fine person.
You may be attacked, ignore them.
Jan
Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time. John Bain </quote>
And Jan Drew continues with libelling and defaming his critics.
As I said above, the "zapper" does not kill bacteria. The claims by Jan Drew are outrageous lies.
The FTC states in
ftc.govdrclarkcmp.htm
<quote> DEFENDANTS' VIOLATIONS OF THE FTC ACT
8. Section 5(a) of the FTC Act, 15 U.S.C. § 45(a), prohibits deceptive acts or practices in or
affecting commerce. Section 12(a) of the FTC Act, 15 U.S.C. § 52(a), prohibits the dissemination
of any false advertisement in or affecting commerce for the purpose of inducing, or which is
likely to induce, the purchase of food, drugs, devices or cosmetics. As set forth below,
defendants have engaged and are continuing to engage in such unlawful practices in connection
with the marketing and sale of various products, including the Super-Zapper Deluxe, Syncrometer,
the Dr. Clark's New 21 Day Program for Advanced Cancers, and the Complete Herbal Parasite
Program, (also called the Herbal Parasite Cleanse).
9. Through their advertising and promotional materials, including, but not limited to, the
representations set forth in Paragraph 12, above, and through the use of their Internet
websites, "www.drclark.net" and "www.drclark.com" defendants have represented expressly or by
implication that:
a.  Use of the Super-Zapper Deluxe is effective to kill bacteria, viruses and parasites in the
human body;
b.  Use of the Super-Zapper Deluxe is effective against chronic infections, cancer and Acquired
Immunodeficiency Syndrome (AIDS);
c.  The Super-Zapper Deluxe and the Complete Herbal Parasite Program, are effective to cure all
forms of cancer in humans;
d.  Dr. Clark's New 21 Day Program for Advanced Cancers is effective to cure all forms of cancer
in humans;
e.  Dr. Clark's New 21 Day Program for Advanced Cancers has cured numerous people with advanced
cases of cancer;
f.  The Syncrometer device is more accurate than the best testing methods at diagnosing all forms of
disease;
g.  The Syncrometer device can detect the presence of any substance at specific points in the
human body.
h.  The Super-Zapper Deluxe, used together with the Complete Herbal Parasite Program, is effective
to cure AIDS;
i.  The Super-Zapper Deluxe, used together with the Complete Herbal Parasite Program and avoidance
of pollutants, is effective to cure diabetes, multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's, endometriosis,
asthma and many other diseases.
j.  Dr. Clark's New 21 Day Program for Advanced Cancers and Super-Zapper Deluxe, when used by
persons with cancer, make surgery and chemotherapy unnecessary.
15. Defendants did not possess and rely upon a reasonable basis that substantiated the
representations set forth in Paragraph 14, above, at the time the representations were made.
Therefore, the making of the representations set forth in Paragraph 14, above, is deceptive and
constitutes false advertising for a food, drug or device, in violation of the FTC Act, 15 U.S.C.
§§ 45(a), 52 and 55.
CONSUMER INJURY
16. As a result of defendants' unlawful acts or practices, consumers throughout the United States
have suffered and continue to suffer monetary loss and possible injuries to their health.
Defendants also have been unjustly enriched as a result of their unlawful practices. Absent
injunctive relief by this Court, the defendants are likely to continue to injure consumers, reap
unjust enrichment and harm the public interest.
THIS COURT'S POWER TO GRANT RELIEF
17. Section 13(b) of the FTC Act, 15 U.S.C. § 53(b), authorizes this Court to grant injunctive and
other equitable relief, including consumer redress, disgorgement and restitution, to prevent and
remedy any violations of any provision of law enforced by the Commission. </quote>
The full text is too long to include it in this usenet posting.
Here a detail, found in quackwatch.orgclark.html :
<quote> The FTC's case was supported by three lengthy affidavits that dissected and thoroughly
debunked Hulda Clark's theories and treatments. Among other things:
Aron Primack, M.D., a cancer specialist who is Associate Professor of Preventive Medicine and
Biometrics at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Maryland,
stated that, Hulda Clark's books "do not provide competent and reliable evidence" to support her
claims [19]. --> quackwatch.orgprimack.html
Peter W. Pappas, Ph.D., a prominent parasitologist and Professor Emeritis at the Ohio State
University, stated (a) although cancer and AIDS are found worldwide, the parasite Clark blames
for them is limited to South East Asia; (b) "Clark's 'case histories' represent an egregious
example of a highly biased experimental protocol, and her theories are based on bad science"; and
(c) "She clearly does not have a basic understanding of the most fundamental parasitological
principles." [20] -->
quackwatch.orgpappas.html
Joseph Pizzorno, N.D., the nation's top naturopath, stated that, "No research is presented
demonstrating that the Zapper has any physiological effects, let alone ability to kill parasites
or cure cancer. The claim that mild electrical shocks to the skin can eliminate intestinal
parasites is, frankly, preposterous." [21] -->
quackwatch.orgpizzorno.html </quote>
As you can see, Hulda Clark is a criminal. The Hulda Clark sales company was sentenced because of
the zapper stuff, the very same zapper stuff Jan Drew in his posting claims to work.
So, for all clear to see :
Jan Drew supports a criminal, AND Jan Drew even tells the very same
******************************************************************
lies the US Court has expressively forbidden.
*********************************************
18. Rich Shewmaker: "$KaChing is Working!!"
##########################################
In his posting Rich Shewmaker explains some of the backgounds of the "$KaChing"...
<quote> From: "Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Subject:
$KaChing is Working!! Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 05:47:29 -1000 Message-ID:
<[email hidden]>
Quackwatch Ratbags
July $100* $70 August 38 20 September 28 10
*donation capped -- actual "LIAR" count was 132
For the newcomers who don't know what $KaChing is, at the beginning of July, I proposed donating $1
to Quackwatch every time Jan called someone here a LIAR. Her nasty habit of shouting LIAR at
everyone who disagrees with her was becoming annoying to me, and, since this is an unmoderated
newsgroup where freedom of speech applies, the only way to change this behavior was to use behavior
modification. There are no channels of positive reinforcement available, so punishment seemed the
most effective approach. Jan has expressed her hatred of Dr. Barrett and his Quackwatch website
repeatedly, thus my plan to apply a mild punishment for her behavior. The problem is that, unlike
positive reinforcement that can be effective with a variable schedule, punishment must be
consistently meted with every infraction. Thus, the one dollar sting. A few days later, I added a $5
sting donation to Ratbags for every time Jan brought up the tragic death of a child to accuse Peter
B. of something or other, though I've never understood just how Jan's warped brain connected him
with that case and assigned the guilt.
Anyway, as the figures above show, the program seems to be effective. Jan even got through the
September Ritalin wars without maxing out the Quackwatch donation. If $KaChing continues to be
effective, I may add a $1 "insomnia fine" for every time Jan does her childish "ZZZZzzzz" response.
See you next month, and thank you Mark Thorson and any others who are participating. </quote>
19. "The Importance of Mass Name Calling"
########################################
Jan Drew displays a fine moral. Allways nice, allways polite, always helpfull. Unless... the truth
shows up. Persons who show the real backgrounds of Jan Drew, oh, they are REAL BAD. Jan Drew uses
foul language, and says that some of his critics are connected with Satan. Here is a collection by
which Jan Drew shows his real face...:
<quote> Path:oofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-
m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 40 X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Date: 10 Nov 2003 06:03:05 GMT Organization: AOL
aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: The Importance of Mass Name Calling Message-ID: <20031110010305.12560.00000450@mb-
m06.aol.com> Xref: news.freenet.de misc.health.alternative:325036
Rich Shewmaker who has no integrity, He doesn't give a damn if all the debunkers lie.
Richard H Jacobson, proven liar, badgerer, stalker and sad human excuse of a human being.
Andrew Kingoff who hides behing the fake name of IIsa. Likes to deconstruct others, has a fetish for
steaming bags of feces, and pounding of sand up one's ass.
Peter Bowditch who isn't man of his words and a proven liar.
David Wright, grump of the year whose intent is to make others angry.
DC Sessions who acts like a spoiled brat.
Ted Nidiffer, who hides behing the name NanaWeedkiller, lackey for Barrett.
Mark Thorson who repeats himself several times a day. Known liar who has to make retractions,
another lackey for Barrett.
Mark MD whose hobby is to annoy.
Mark Probert, all of the above.
WB and Dickinson both trolls.
Joel Eichen who needs his mercury level checked, acts like a chicken with it's head off.
Aribert Deckers, no words to describe this loon.
A sad sorry *dishonest* bunch.
Who ALL have EGO problems, push drugs and overlook all needless deaths mistakes and FRAUD within
organized medicine.
That's a FACT, Jack. </quote>
Now, keep in mind, that Jan Drew claims to have owned a child care center. Would you ever give a
child to a person of such paranoid behavior...?
20. Deadly fraud in the healthcare system
#########################################
Jan Drew, for his crime is abusing efforts of Shawn Korrami and other honest fighters against
dental amalgam.
Jan Drew is lying by mixing up true facts with snake-oil dealer lies. This is the way Jan Drew is
disguising his real intention : to advertize quackery in large scale.
Jan Drew is an unscrupulous liar and is misleading ill people into misery.
Here is just one example of what can happen to one who believes "persons" like Jan Drew :
<quote> Betroffene berichten "Leben" mit Amalgam-Vergiftung
- und andere Dinge im Umgang mit Ärzten - 7
6.1.2002 *
(A20106)Allzuleicht verlassen sich Kranke auf Behauptungen Anderer. Manche bezahlen diese
Gutgläubigkeit mit dem Leben. Gerade noch mit dem Leben davongekommen, aber schwerkrank ist
der arme Mann, der mir erlaubt hat, seine Bitte um Hilfe zu veröffentlichen. Falls jemand
etwas weiß, das ihm helfen kann: BITTE MELDEN SIE SICH! Ill people too often believe in what
others say. Many pay for this with their life. Having survived but severly ill, a poor man
sent me this email and allowed me to publish his request for help.
Aribert Deckers
**************************************************************************
DMSA and the DMSA-Hg complex half-life, and the normal values.
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 Hi! I was looking for S. Emerson's old page - and found your mirror. If you
know his present e-mail address please forward that message quoted below to him. I would also be
grateful if you would reply to that letter as well. Thank you! (Name)
------- Forwarded message follows ------- Hi! I hope that you remeber my e-mail from October 1999. I
am sorry for such a long silence, but the enormity of the disasters in my family in recent years is
just incredible.
I lost finaly my job due to the illness, and I got cerebral haemorhage on the 1st of June 2000 - for
four weeks doctors were not sure if I survive, but I am still alive as you see.
I got that cerebral haemorrage during taking of DMSA. Who knows maybe it was involved in it? I found
on that page altcorp.comhgtoxicity.htm an information that DMSA can cause
thrombocystosis. I was taking DMSA produced by Fluka as a chemical reagent (>98% pure). Medical
pills of DMSA were rather too expensive for me.
I felt worse than usually when taking DMSA - is that normal reaction?
I keep my urine samples (gathered when taking DMSA) frozen in photografic film plastic containers.
I would like to measure Hg level in it, but they (a lab in Lodz, Poland) want to charge me for every
container as for completely separated analysis, so I have to choose just a few samples (3 or maybe 5
samples) for analysis to reduce my expenses. They would measure it by AAS cold vapours technique.
I don't know what is metabolism and half-life of DMSA and DMSA-Hg complex in our organisms, so I am
not sure which samples to choose for analysis. Maybe you could help me? I am attaching a word file
with a table indicating when and how much DMSA I took, and when urine samples were taken. On the
last page in that file is also a copy of my CAT scan.
Do you know what values of Hg are considered normal and what high in urine *when taking DMSA*? I
would be grateful if you would provide me with that data.
I am now on 1 year of temporary pension due to the cerebral heamorrahage, though I have been already
not able to work earlier due to Hg vapours poisoning in the lab with severe CFIDS/ME like symptoms.
This year also my grandmother had a stroke (we don't even know for sure whether that was a bleeding
stroke or not, because doctors here stint on doing CAT scans or MRI for elderly people), and she
became left side paralysed. My mother is also not well, having very strong headaches. We both being
ill have to take care alone about my paralysed grandmother - it is very exhausting, and often we
also cannot sleep at night because of her (she often doesn't sleep all night long talking often
without much sense to herself - that's another result of the stroke). Doctors here are not helpful
at all, they would rather want us all to die, so that we would not bother them again. And what are
the conditions and treatment in our hospitals is a subject for yet another long horror story.
We just live in hell on Earth.
We would like to move out from here to another country, but that's not easy without any help
from outside.
I'll better finish here.
Hope to hear from you soon. Best wishes
[Name) ------ End of forwarded message ------- * hier geht's weiter ! [ Das Amalgam-Zentrum ]
Copyright © 2000 - 2002 Aribert Deckers and Copyright © 2000 - 2002 Antares Real-Estate Jegliche
Weiterverwendung der Texte der Amalgam-Page ist verboten. Verlage dürfen sich wegen der
Nachdruckrechte per Email an mich wenden. Aribert Deckers </quote>
People like Jan Drew are responsible for the fate of victims like this ill man.
Jan Drew is a damned shame for the human race.
11. Jan Drew and the Attack on the WTC,
#######################################
Jan Drew's Antisemitism
#######################################
In a posting, dated november, 12th. 2003, Mr. Rich shows Jan Drew's antisemitism :
<quote> From: Rich<,@.> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Subject: Jan Drew, lowest of lows (Was
Re: A message to a sick son of a [censored].!) Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
References: <[email hidden]>
<[email hidden]> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 04:28:50 GMT
(Jan) said:
Sadly, his enablers will be right along.
It matters not to them how low one is, they defend each others, as in:
Jan is one to talk about how low one can go defend her enablers. The following is an antisemitic
rant made by one of Jan's enablers. Read the post and then read Jan's comment following it if you
want to read the lowest of lows:
Debbee1023 says:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
I am beginning to think there are dentists who are among those who are paid to talk against the
anti-amalgam campaign, and I am beginning to wonder which ethnic group of people owns those dental
supply businesses? I understand there is one large ethnic group that pushes their "people" into
the medical field, and those that cannot stand the sight of blood end up as lobbyists, teachers,
politicians, entertainers, etc., and that anyone that goes against "their thinking" is ridiculed.
The problem being, I am beginning to think all of thismuch to do about nothing in the field of
alternative medicine is all true about this particular heritage, and maybe a certain European
leader was right long

time ago.
Quoted message said:
The "almighty" dollar is the most important material object in this culture's life. Not all of the
people connected, are of that nature, but I'm beginning to understand why the attacks on the U.S.
were planned on the cities that were chosen. It's not just alternative medicine that has been
attempted to be hijacked...it all because of pure GREED, that has some of these people so
possessed, that they feel they are OWED for something that happened years AGO. Instead of "getting
over it", like most people do, that have been abused, they keep abusing others that are not of
that culture, in an attempt to "even the score."

Jan the despicable antisemite agrees:
Quoted message said:
Yes, it does appear that way, along with the ole EGO thingie.
Jan
So there you have it. Jan Drew agrees with [censored]'s plan to exterminate millions of Jews simply
because of their religion. And Jan Drew calls herself a Christian. Lord have mercy.
What would Jesus (a jew) have to say about Jan Drew endorsing someone who said that [censored] was right
about the Jews. Jan may find out on judgment day.
Aloha,
Rich
Quoted message said:
------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
The best defense to logic is ignorance. </quote>
12. The "Jew joy" case
#######################
Trying to find the original posting by Jan Drew with his attacks, calling someone "jew boy", I found
2 postings missing in my "Agent" archive file. Seems as if somebody cancelled them before I could
download them with "Agent" in those days. I do not know, who is responsible for these postings being
cancelled, but I think, that pieces of proof like these should be made public.
So, I herewith to public show these 2 pieces of proof, as can be found with Google :
<quote> Lines: 30 X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 02 May 2002 19:59:32 GMT References: <20020502140729.27680.00006101@mb-
fs.aol.com> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: Doctor Syndromes Message-ID: <20020502155932.08640.00006955@mb-
cp.aol.com>
Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: Doctor Syndromes From: [email hidden] (Ilsa Nein) Date: 5/2/02 11:07 AM Pacific
Daylight Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
If you have Fibromyalgia, then you have one of these Syndromes too!
LAZY DOCTOR SYNDROME

<Snip>
Perhaps, Bubba, folks who believe they have one of these "syndromes" should see an alternative
medical practitioner. Those so afflicted should consider consulting their yellow pages for an
Acupuncturist near them.
Please stay clear of
Southern Acupuncture Inc.
I.L.S.A.
1403 Audubon Blvd. #1A
Wilmington, NC
910-799-5777
Jan </quote>
<quote> Lines: 54 X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 04 May 2002 04:35:36 GMT References: <20020503231752.05277.00006469@mb-
co.aol.com> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: Doctor Syndromes Message-ID: <20020504003536.28298.00007240@mb-
fe.aol.com>
Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: Doctor Syndromes From: [email hidden] (Ilsa Nein) Date: 5/3/02 8:17 PM Pacific
Daylight Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: Doctor Syndromes From: [email hidden] (Ilsa Nein) Date: 5/2/02 11:07 AM Pacific
Daylight Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
>If you have Fibromyalgia, then you have one of these Syndromes too!
>
>
>LAZY DOCTOR SYNDROME
>
<Snip>
Perhaps, Bubba, folks who believe they have one of these "syndromes" should see an alternative
medical practitioner. Those so afflicted should consider consulting their yellow pages for an
Acupuncturist near them.
Please stay clear of
Southern Acupuncture Inc.
I.L.S.A.
1403 Audubon Blvd. #1A
Wilmington, NC
910-799-5777
Jan
Jan, quit shilling, it is against the MHA 10 Commandments.
Little do you know anything about the *10 Commandments* Jew Boy.
Please stay clear of
Southern Acupuncture Inc.
I.L.S.B.
1403 Audubon Blvd. #1A
Wilmington, NC
910-799-5777 </quote>
13. Jan Drew Lied About Having Mercury Poisoning from Amalgams
##############################################################
Are Jan Drew's claims true ? Here is a differing opinion.
(I mounted the quotes with the original FULL texts included. Please note, that, by mounting the
texts, the quotation marks differ.)
<quote> From: Rich<,@.> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Subject: Jan Drew Lied About Having
Mercury Poisoning from Amalgams Message-ID: <[email hidden]> Date: Sat,
15 Nov 2003 18:43:19 GMT
As regular readers of this newsgroup know, there is a poster Jan Drew who obsessively posts about
how she nearly died of mercury poisoning secondary to amalgams. She claims that the removal of
several amalgams saved her life.
But Jan lied several times regarding her amalgam history in order to deceive others that she really
had mercury poisoning when what she actually had was a deterioration in her preexisting illness
(peripheral neuropathy) secondary to psychologic factors (worrying obsessively about having mercury
poisoning due to reading about it in Hulda Clark book). She also had a dramatic improvement due to
psychologic factors (relief that the removal of amalgams eliminated the mercury poisoning).
Now Jan drew ADMITTED in HER OWN WORDS that the reason she went from thinking that she was dying of
mercury poisoning one day and feeling better than she had the next day within hours of having some
amalgams removed was completely due to relief. Now I will allow Jan Drew to tell you her in own
words that her improvement was due to relief:
Here are her exact words posted on June 18th, 1999 to usenet
[QUOTE, mounted]
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
I have been reading this thread. I have peripheral neuropathy. I have found a dentist
(alternative) who knows that mercury amalgams are very dangerous. They can cause all manner of
things. He will remove them and put in composities. I have just had 3/4 of mine remover. The
others will come out in a few weeks, along with the one root canal, which will be extracted.
Quoted message said:
If an individual has read on this subject and is knowledgable, he will take care of you.
Quoted message said:
He has written "Tooth Truth and tells it like it is. He tells how the ADA has covered up this
problem.
Quoted message said:
So, it is just a matter of finding the right dentist. He has people flying in from all over to get
the work done.
Quoted message said:
I believe the mercury is the cause of my problems. I hav felt better today that I have in the last
2 years, and am looking forward to getting the rest of the mercury out and the root canal pulled.
Quoted message said:
Jan
<quote, full original> google.degroups
fm1.aol.com&output=gplain
From: [email hidden] (JDrew63929) Subject: Re: Any comments on this explanation for allergy?
(yes, of course 🙂 Date: 1999/06/18 Message-ID: <[email hidden]>#1/1
References: <[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Newsgroups:
alt.health.dental-amalgam X-Admin: [email hidden]
Quoted message said:
Hi Zugumba,
You said:
Actually, Joel is perfectly correct as far as things go in the US.
You think he never sent a patient with a cold home to avoid catching it?
Quoted message said:
dentist can lose his license for treating a systemic illness
What is really a systemic illness. Is that a disease that hits all systems in the body or ' just '
a local condition with systemic (general) symptoms? Or even one, or a few, distant symptoms? What
is it really?
In most cases it is the latter. And as dentists, even in the States, we cannot avoid affecting the
body conditons when treating mouth conditions. The mouth IS a part of the body. And in many cases
also the body's mirror.
Quoted message said:
If Joel determined that a patient was suffering from a migraine and not a dental abscess, his job
stops there. He then is obligated to refer the patient to a neurologist.
Okay, Let's say it is rather diffuse oro-facial pain. What would you do?
Quoted message said:
Similarly, removing amalgam restorations to treat a systemic illness (like multiple sclerosis) is
considering treating an illness out of the scope of dental practice.
What you really are talking about is indications. Id est; for what purpose the dental treatment is
performed. Sofar teeth are treated for the reason of teeth, yes. One day (and it is emerging)
dentists will learn that what they do to one part of the body may effect other parts. I am not
saying that dental amalgam is the sole cause of MS. There are far closer relations between
classical systemic diseases and dental treatment, for exaple; an aggrevated heart condition due to
dental treatment, increased arterio- sclerotic plaque formation, etc (not to mention all the
iatrogenous TMJ:s)
Quoted message said:
After a certain point the patient has to be turned over to the correct medical practitioners to
finish the job or to follow-up.
That's a pretty obvious statement. Anyone would agree with that. And it doesn't disprove
what I wrote.
Quoted message said:
True, the line can be fuzzy, but most of the time it is pretty clear what range of ailments a
dentist in the US can treat
Submandibular lymphatic adenitis? May a dentist treat that - or not? In US?
Hans
I have been reading this thread. I have peripheral neuropathy. I have found a dentist (alternative)
who knows that mercury amalgams are very dangerous. They can cause all manner of things. He will
remove them and put in composities. I have just had 3/4 of mine remover. The others will come out in
a few weeks, along with the one root canal, which will be extracted.
If an individual has read on this subject and is knowledgable, he will take care of you.
He has written "Tooth Truth and tells it like it is. He tells how the ADA has covered up
this problem.
So, it is just a matter of finding the right dentist. He has people flying in from all over to get
the work done.
I believe the mercury is the cause of my problems. I hav felt better today that I have in the last 2
years, and am looking forward to getting the rest of the mercury out and the root canal pulled.
Jan </quote> [/QUOTE]
And now the admission that this improvement was due to relief:
Here are her exact words:
[QUOTE, mounted]
Quoted message said:
Rich for the LAST time, I said I felt better than I had in two years. That was very true. I had
been very very ill and my health was deteriorating fast. After much reading and research I was
convinced it was my teeth. I wasn't absolutely positivity 100% sure, but it all fit together and I
knew I had to do something. It wasn't easy, what if it didn't work? That was very stressful.
Quoted message said:
Finally all the work was done, the metal was out, the bill was paid, I didn't have to sit in the
dentist chairs for hours with a rubber dam in my mouth!!!!!!!!!! Of course I was very relieved. A
big big burden was lifted. That makes one FEEL BETTER.
What's so hard to understand?
<quote, full original> google.degroups
mm1.aol.com&output=gplain
Lines: 35 X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (JDrew63929) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 30 Dec 2000 04:24:15 GMT References:
<[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: This
skeptic's view of alt/comp Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
From: Rich {.} Date: 12/29/00 10:28 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id:
<[email hidden]>
Rich for the LAST time, I said I felt better than I had in two years. That was very true. I had been
very very ill and my health was deteriorating fast. After much reading and research I was convinced
it was my teeth. I wasn't absolutely positivity 100% sure, but it all fit together and I knew I had
to do something. It wasn't easy, what if it didn't work? That was very stressful.
Finally all the work was done, the metal was out, the bill was paid, I didn't have to sit in the
dentist chairs for hours with a rubber dam in my mouth!!!!!!!!!! Of course I was very relieved. A
big big burden was lifted. That makes one FEEL BETTER.
What's so hard to understand?
I also reported I had only begun, now on to chelating the mercury from my body. With mercury
poisoning, it comes and goes, I had some pretty bad spells. I'm still chelating Rich and will be for
some time. I slowly am regaining my health and my PN is much better. I don't have the painful
periods that I once had, and yes it was after I started taking medication.
You added a few words to what I said which *implied* that I was physicially free from
pain..........as in BANG I'm home free. That is NOT what I meant.............and you know it.
Now do you better understand? I hope so because I feel no need to explain it AGAIN. Please respect
that I didn't have to explain AGAIN this time.
Jan </quote> [/QUOTE]
All the work was done??? A lie. The work was not completed until weeks later. Jan Drew even posted
that her dental work was not done until July 11, 1999.
And now for more lies. Jan Drew told two egregious lies that were told solely to deceive people into
thinking that she really had mercury poisoning.
The first is on June 26 ,1999 just a week after she had eight amalgams removed. She claimed that ALL
her feet pain went away and she was able to go out line dancing because she was no longer getting a
daily dose of mercury. This is a complete lie and Jan knew it. On June 26, 1999 Jan still had more
amalgams to be removed and they would not be removed until July 11, 1999 by Jan's own admission. You
see Jan has difficulty keeping her lies straight.
But let us have Jan Drew tell us in her own words:
[QUOTE, mounted]
Quoted message said:
On 26 Jun 1999, JDrew63929 wrote:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
AF says *** More childish nonsense from poor, sick old Jan.
Well, Jan is doing fine, even went line dancing tonight! Guess that tells you something about
my feet..
Quoted message said:
This simply proves that your "neuralgia" is significantly the product of a somatization disorder.
Mercury accumulates in the body, and there is no way having your fillings removed a week or two
back could have instantly eliminated all mercury toxicity effects. It would take months or even
years for the benefits to occur, if the problem really was mercury toxicity. So if pulling your
fillings instantly cured your feet, we have a very solid case here that your "neuralgia" was
psychosomatic.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
You are way off base here. I didn't say I was instantly cured. The detoxing that I have done is a
major factor in my recovery. Yes, I will continue to do it for quite some time to remove the
mercury from my body. I am feeling much better, because I am not receiving a new dose of mercury
each day. The elimination of 8 mercury amalgams has made a difference. Nothing psychosomatic
about it.
<quote, full original> google.degroups
fl1.aol.com&output=gplain
From: [email hidden] (JDrew63929) Subject: Re: Chronic constipation Date: 1999/06/26 Message-ID:
<[email hidden]>#1/1 References: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9906261113290.23596-
[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative X-Admin: [email hidden]
Quoted message said:
JDrew63929 said:
Quoted message said:

*** More childish nonsense from poor, sick old Jan.
Well, Jan is doing fine, even went line dancing tonight! Guess that tells

you
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
something about my feet..
Quoted message said:
This simply proves that your "neuralgia" is significantly the product of a somatization disorder.
Mercury accumulates in the body, and there is no way having your fillings removed a week or two
back could have instantly eliminated all mercury toxicity effects. It would take months or even
years for the benefits to occur, if the problem really was mercury toxicity. So if pulling your
fillings instantly cured your feet, we have a very solid case here that your "neuralgia" was
psychosomatic.
You are way off base here. I didn't say I was instantly cured. The detoxing that I have done is a
major factor in my recovery. Yes, I will continue to do it for quite some time to remove the mercury
from my body. I am feeling much better, because I am not receiving a new dose of mercury each day.
The elimination of 8 mercury amalgams has made a difference. Nothing psychosomatic about it.
Quoted message said:
As a country musician, somehow I knew you were a line dancer. And that, combined with your recent
attempt to smear Texas and Texans, explains a lot.
AF
It does? My recent attemp to smear Texans? Now, please tell me, do you believe that people who like
line dancing are stupid? Please explain your remark. You are a country musician, you can't see
people truly enjoying themselves while line dancing? It was the first time I have been in a long,
long time. I do not even know how, I have watched, but my feet stopped me from learning. I was so
thankful to be back and tried a few lessons, THANK GOD, my feet didn't hurt! I felt alive again.
What a blessing!
Just as I thought that I knew you, you have really thrown me here. Please explain.
Jan [/QUOTE]
Nothing psychosomatic about it?!!?!?!?!?!?!? It was completely psychosomatic. Jan Drew's mercury
level at the time she made this statement was the highest in her life since she had eight amalgams
removed over a two day period only a week before.
The second lie is when she posted to sci.med.dentisty that the reason she knows that it was the
mercury in her mouth that caused her health problems was because she did not *begin* to regain her
health until *after* the mercury level dropped. Not only is this a complete lie and Jan knows it but
the complete opposite is true.
Jan Drew began to regain her health when her mercury level was the highest in her entire life. That
is right. When Jan Drew reported dramatic improvement in her health (ie better than she felt in two
years, and being able to line dance due to all the pain gone) her mercury level had not dropped and
was likely the highest in her life because this improvement occurred from hours to a week after her
amalgams were removed.
The reason that alternative dentists recommend slow removal of amalgams (some as posted by Jan Drew
suggest removing no more than one amalgam every three months) is because the removal of the amalgams
results in vaporization of mercury which even with perfect protocol will result in absorption into
the body of large amounts of mercury.
So on June 18 and 19, 1999 Jan had eight amalgams removed. On June 19, 1999 Jan said she felt better
than she had in two years.
On June 26, 1999 Jan said that she was able to go out line dancing because all her foot pain was
gone. Of course the pain only was gone for a short time because it was likely a placebo effect
due to her RELIEF that the mercury was coming out of her mouth. Just like she felt better than
she did in two years due to relief (by her OWN admission) she was able to go out line dancing a
week later when the absorption of mercury into her tissues from blood likely resulted in the
highest level in her life.
But Jan said that she knows it was the metal in her mouth because she did not BEGIN to regain her
health until AFTER her mercury level dropped. A complete lie and the pathologic liar Jan Drew knows
it. This is why she kill filed me. This is why she lies about me being a liar and a stalker. Jan
Drew knows that I exposed her lies and she refuses to admit it. She is a despicable human being
whose sole purpose in life is to shill for alternative dentists and to perpetuate the lie that she
had mercury poisoning from amalgams. She did not and the proof is in her own words.
Jan Drew will not respond to any of the points in this post. Instead she will pretend she is not
reading them and then personally attack me in order to discredit me. Just watch.
That's a wrap.
Aloha,
Rich
------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
The best defense to logic is ignorance. </quote>
14. The foul language of Jan Drew
#################################
On 06 Nov 2003 23:45:08 GMT, [email hidden] (Jan) wrote:
<quote> X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry Date: 06
Nov 2003 23:45:08 GMT Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: The Obsessed Nut Case Liar
Aribert Deckers Message-ID: <[email hidden]> Xref: news.freenet.de
sci.med.dentistry:176001
Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: [FAQ about Jan Drew's advertizing for quackery] 20031106 From: [email hidden]
(ChuckMSRD) Date: 11/6/2003 8:58 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <20031106115835.10454.00000314@mb-
m10.aol.com>
Quoted message said:
2. Nicknames and persons involved in the Jan Drew scam
Quoted message said:
"ChuckMSRD" [email hidden]
Wrong, and Aribert is an obsessed nut job.
Chuck
True. There is no Jan Drew scam. There is no advertising from me.
Neither do I know Chuck other than by his posts here.
Jan </quote>
(Jan) said:
The websites I post are written by DDS's MD's Ph.D researchers, people with actual experience,
and law makers.
Jan Drew admits to post material into the net.
**********************************************
This way Jan Drew is advertizing. Jan Drew just does not call it advertizing. Jan Drew's denial does
not make the advertizing no advertizing. Jan Drew's denial shows his pathologic character.
Jan Drew is a naturopath mafia advertizing agency and as such his words are rhetoric warfare.
Because that is the game --- as Jan Drew persuades people to go to charlatans and quacks.
15. Jan Drew's rhetorical warfare
#################################
As you have seen above, Jan Drew DOES advertize by posting material which is CONTRA scientific
medicine and PRO naturopath mafia stuff. In the following posting by Nana Weedkiller you see the
relevant points clearly :
<quote> From: "Nana Weedkiller" <[email hidden]> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
References: <[email hidden]>
<[email hidden]> Subject: Re: Re Complementary Medicine Grows By Leaps & Bounds Message-
ID: <[email hidden]> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 02:53:08 GMT
"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:

That's never been an issue, at least not with me. The goal is for both to work together.
You have on several occasions specifically stated that people are turning *away* from
conventional medicine and using alternative medicine *in

place
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
of* it.
Please do copy and paste the proof of this claim.
I thought I might help you out a little to remind you of what you've stated. No need to thank me.
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"...when one has exhausted the conventional route and found no answers, they turn to
alternative medicine. Many have found the answer been treated and are regaining their health.
It's called RESULTS."
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"Or one can turn to alternative medicine and find an answer,,,,,,,,,,,,and that is WHY one half of
people are turning to alternative medicine."
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"ONE of the MAIN reasons people turn to alternative medicine, is because conv. medicine HAS NO
ANSWERS,,,,,,,,,,,,"
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"Defects of conventional medicine are just one more reason to turn to alternative medicine, and stay
OUT of hospitals."
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"Furthmore, have you any clue as to WHY people are turning to alternative??
BECASE THEY ARE DISSATIFIED WITH CONVENTIONAL MEDIC!NE!!!"
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"When conv. has no answers, it's time to turn to alternative. Many are finding answers and treatment
that is working."
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"And many times they get NO diagnoses because it isn't in the recipe book. Many people turn to
alternative because conv. has no answers."
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"Their *real* doctor? The reason most people are turning to AM is because their conv. doctor has NO
answers, because REAL conditions are being denied."
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"In many cases conv. medicine has no answers, that's because many *real* diseases are denied.
People tuurn to alternative to get to the *root* of the problem."
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"You will find that most people are turning to alternative because conventional medicine has no
answers." </quote>
The naturopath mafiosi always invite the scientific medicine to cooperate with them. But the
naturopath mafia seeds hatred against scientific medicine whereever possible.
There will NEVER be any kind of cooperation, as it is the naturopath mafia which wants to rule the
world ALONE, and may it cost the life of all patients.
16. Children die because of criminals like Jan Drew
###################################################
(Jan) said:
This is truly evil.
Jan
This is a report from WHO in 1997 :
who.intfs 180.htm <quote> "Measles
The problem: Despite the major impact made on this disease by successful immunization programmes,
measles infects over 40 million children and kills over 800,000 under-fives each year. That
translates to 2,000 deaths of young children every day from measles, often in association with
diarrhoea and pneumonia. IMCI solution: Young children with measles often develop acute respiratory
infections, diarrhoea and malnutrition, and children who survive measles are more vulnerable to
other dangerous infections for several months afterwards. Trained health workers learn to recognize
the complications of measles that they can treat and those that need rapid referral for more
specialized treatment." </quote>
What is more evil than to kill children ?
Children die. They die because they have not been vaccinated. They die because of infections which
they could have survived if they had been vaccinated.
And Jan Drew persuades people NOT to have their children vaccinated...
Jan Drew denies that he is against vaccination, but here is a piece of proof (one of many to
be found) :
[long, but with reason not abridged]
<quote> From: "Tony Bad" <[email hidden]> Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry References:
<[email hidden]> Subject: Re: Mercury in the mouth Lines: 38 X-
Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-
MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID:
<[email hidden]> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:20:37 -0400 NNTP-Posting-
Host: 24.186.4.238 X-Trace: news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net 1032492423 24.186.4.238 (Thu, 19 Sep 2002
23:27:03 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:2

Report
Jan
Archived post

26 December 2003, 23:08 UTC #3

Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: Poor Richard H Jacobson
From: [email hidden]
Date: 12/26/2003 3:33 PM Central Standard Time
Cancel

Report
Happy Oyster
Archived post

26 December 2003, 23:08 UTC #4

On 26 Dec 2003 20:49:28 GMT, [email hidden] (Jan) wrote:
Jan Drew persists to use foul language, to lie, to forge --- and all this to do advertizing for the
naturopath mafia.
Jan Drew is one of the most outrageous liars I have ever seen in the net.
FAQ about Jan Drew's advertizing for quackery
*********************************************
Updated, December, 19th., 2003
Hello,
in this and other news-groups a person who calls himself Jan Drew, is massively
advertizing quackery.
1. List of Web-Sites Jan Drew is advertizing for
2. Nicknames and persons involved in the Jan Drew scam
3. Cui bono ? Mercola disguises as "Jan Drew"
4. Jan Drew confesses his forgeries
5. A look at Jan Drew's list of lies with URLs (internet links)
6. Jan Drew works for Scientology
7. Jan Drew works for Hulda Clark
8. "$KaChing is Working!!"
9. Deadly fraud in the healthcare system
10. "The Importance of Mass Name Calling"
11. Jan Drew and the Attack on the WTC, Jan Drew's Antisemitism
12. The "Jew boy" case
13. Jan Drew Lied About Having Mercury Poisoning from Amalgams
14. The foul language of Jan Drew
15. Jan Drew's rhetorical warfare
16. Children die because of criminals like Jan Drew
17. List of Web-Sites Jan Drew is advertizing for
################################################
[naturopath mafia-based] 800ga.comparasites.htm
home.vicnet.net.auparasites.html all-natural.comholistic.html
yourhealthbase.comalternative medicine.html
doctortalk.comcancer & oxygen.php alternativemedicine.comi22
a12.shtml thinktwice.comploys.htm
healingwithnutrition.comvitce.html
quackpotwatch.orgchelation%20bill.htm
abcnews.go.comsept11HS 508939AlternativeCancerTreatments020910.
html curezone.comf.asp aznetnews.comstory.php
hospitalsantamonica.comid45.htm holistic-dentistry.comartamalgam.asp
hugnet.comprotocol.html heart-disease-bypass-surgery.com63.htm
mercola.commercola.com alkalizeforhealth.netalkalizeforhealth.net
[Scientology-based articles]
enquirer.comloc drugging our kids.html
antipsychiatry.orgdrsmith1.htm
(List will be updated)
18. Nicknames and persons involved in the Jan Drew scam
######################################################
Nicknames and names of persons who help Jan Drew in his scam, or perhaps are nothing but other masks
of Mercola :
"Dave" <[email hidden]> "Rod" <[email hidden]> "Teacher" <[email hidden]>
"David" <[email hidden]> "ChuckMSRD" [email hidden] "Anth" <[email hidden]>
This list will be updated.
Note: ALL supporters of Jan Drew will be entered in this list !
Keep in mind these very true words :
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:10:32 GMT, Rich<,@.> wrote in misc.health.alternative :
<quote> [...] There is one positive aspect of having Jan Drew post here though; if someone supports
her then you can be sure that this person cannot be trusted either. Anyone who reads Jan Drew's
bigoted, hateful and dishonest posts and supports her tells you much about their own integrity.
And you can be reasonably certain that Jan Drew is reading all the posts of the people she claims
that she has kill filed. The only reason that she kill files people is to give her plausible
deniability in her failure to reconcile her contradictory statements that are frequently brought up
to her. </quote>
3. Cui bono ?
##############
A strong clue on who is responsible for the criminal deeds are the connections to those who cash in
the money.
Mercola and Klinghardt are known charlatans. Jan Drew advertizes for them. But Jan Drew does more
than that !
A posting from Jan Drew into news:misc.health.alternative impressively demonstrates the background :
<quote> Lines: 40 X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 29 Aug 2003 20:19:06 GMT References:
<[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re:
The Greatest Lie Ever Told Message-ID: <[email hidden]> Xref:
news.freenet.de misc.health.alternative:313197
Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Told From: "Anth" [email hidden] Date: 8/29/2003 1:26 AM Pacific
Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
She does? Anth
Quoted message said:

"Happy Oyster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Jan Drew abuses the works of honorable scientists. Jan Drew mixes up true facts with naturopath
nonsense and this way forces people to buy quackery.
Jan Drew walks over bodies. Don't let them be yours!
Well now, that fits right in with the greatest lie ever told.
I posted a website. I mixed nothing, I abused nothing, I adsvertize nothing, I have never forced
people to do anything.
Happy is the liar, making all kinds of false statements
When in fact it tells on the website, the many works of different researchers.
Dr. Vimy holds the rank of Clinical Associate Professor, Department of Medicine, Faculty of Medicine
at the University of Calgary
Ds. Vimy is one of the top mercury researchers in the world and his comments to the ADA press
release are most informative. You can review the article I published with Dr. Klinghardt earlier
this year for further information on mercury detoxification.
Jan
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the
people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein </quote>
Jan Drew writes IN HIS OWN WORDS, with himself as the center person of the text :
<quote> When in fact it tells on the website, the many works of different researchers.
Dt. Vimy holds the rank of Clinical Associate Professor, Department of Medicine, Faculty of Medicine
at the University of Calgary
Du. Vimy is one of the top mercury researchers in the world and his comments to the ADA press
release are most informative. You can review the article I published with Dr. Klinghardt earlier
this year for ************************************************************* +++ further
information on mercury detoxification.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jan </quote>
So Jan Drew published an article together with Klinghardt.
Now, WHO IS "JAN DREW" !?
A clue can be found by searching for news postings by Jan Drew containing the word "Klinghardt",
dated "earlier this year".
We find a posting dated "09 Feb 2003 00:29:57 GMT" : (Underlign marks made by me.)
<quote> X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 09 Feb 2003 00:29:57 GMT References: <[email hidden]>
Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: Mercury Toxicity Message-ID: <20030208192957.25214.00000251@mb-
cf.aol.com>
mercola.commercury elimination.htm
Mercury
Toxicity and Systemic Elimination Agents
The following paper has been a long time in the making. I first wrote it nearly three years ago and
it was initially rejected by the Lancet and the British Medical Journal but was published last month
in the Journal of Nutritional and Environmental Medicine (March 2001). The end of the article has
the bibliography which took quite awhile to compile and has 124 of the best literature documentation
I could find on mercury detoxification. For a practical summary of the paper and exactly what one
should do, please review my mercury detoxification protocol. Dr. Klinghardt is widely recognized as
one of the most
**************
knowledgeable physicians in mercury detoxification and it was a
********
privilege to be able to help him with this paper.
*************************************************
<quote>
Jan Drew (remember the "I" !) here completely copies an article --- written by Mercola TOGETHER with
Klinghardt.
This article is "on mercury detoxification".
So we can strongly say that "Jan Drew" actually is Mercola.
Mercola is writing masses of articles, and he pours out an enourmous mass of advertizing for his
charlatan comrades, boosting his and their sales...
4. Jan Drew confesses his forgeries
###################################
In the following posting Jan Drew confesses to have taken someone else's words and posted them in
the net as his, Jan Drew's, own words
:
<quote> Path: news.freenet.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!easynews.net!newsfeed3.easynews.net!newsfeed.arcor-
online.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news-
t.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-
m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 28 X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Date: 18 Nov 2003 04:13:48 GMT References:
<[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: Jan
Drew is a forger Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
From: Happy Oyster [email hidden] Date: 11/17/2003 4:17 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-
id: <[email hidden]>
Happy is not playing with a full deck.
As anyone can see this bit about me being Mercola is absurd.
mercola.comada.htm
<snip>
Dv. MERCOLA'S COMMENT:
Dw. Vimy is one of the top mercury researchers in the world and his comments to the ADA press
release are most informative. You can review the article I published with Dr. Klinghardt earlier
this year for further information on mercury detoxification. Thanks to Jeff Green of Citizens
for Health for sending this very interesting timeline regarding the dental use of mercury.
Took 16 seconds to find it.
I have posted it previously.
Jan
Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time. John Bain </quote>
So, far all to see, Jan Drew confesses to have taken Mercola's words, and to have have posted them
as his, Jan Drew's very own words.
Do not forget the "I", by which Jan Drew makes these words HIS VERY OWN.
5. A look at Jan Drew's list of lies with URLs (internet links)
###############################################################
A great deal of Jan Drew's postings are lists of URLs (internet links to web-pages). Jan Drew
selects those pages and only takes those which seed fear and hatred against scientific medicine.
Jan Drew defames scientific medicine as "Evil Organized Medizine".
In a posting of november 5th., 2003, Dr. Steve shows what such a list really contains :
<quote> From: "Dr. Steve" <[email hidden]> Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry
References: <[email hidden]>
<[email hidden]> Subject: Re: 3rd Opinion - Root Canal Question Message-ID:
<[email hidden]> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 01:07:35 GMT
. "Ja," <[email hidden]> wrote in message
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
If jdrmmm,,,,[email hidden] (Jan) responds you may wish to consider the

source.
Quoted message said:

I wasn't going to respond, but now that this has been said, do consider

the
Quoted message said:
source and see the source of each website.
zip.com.auRCTframeset.htm
A site making money on people's fear of Hg poisoning. Just a dental office in Nepal.
Quoted message said:
ericdavisdental.comroot canals.htm
An Australian dentist with a really bad wig. Trying to make money on people's fear of Hg poisoning.
Quoted message said:
whale.toroot2.html
A letter written to Dr. Huggins, with no proof it was ever mailed. The dental links on the home page
lead to a Dr. Nara's web page. They sell books on th evils of Hg in dentistry.
Quoted message said:
drshankland.comrootcanal.html
Web page of Dr. Shankland who is selling books. He likes to quote Dr. Price's research from 1918 and
ignore all the research since then.
Quoted message said:
webpages.charter.netrootcanals.htm
An anedotal report by some lay-person who bought a book by Dr. Meinig and hopes you will buy one his
books too.
Quoted message said:
dentistry-toothtruth.comfaq.htm
A web site that just sells a book.
Quoted message said:
cfsn.commaz
An advertisement for Melisa Medica Foundation selling (guess what?) disguised as some unfortunate
souls suffering personal story.
Quoted message said:
cnorman.best.vwh.netdental.html
Advertisement for the Blazing Tattles Newsletteer (they sell this) once again disquised as a story.
Quoted message said:
rheumatic.orgteeth.htm
Another advertisement for Dr. Meining's book.
Quoted message said:
zip.com.auroot therapies.htm
Another link to the Nepal dental office.
Quoted message said:
zap.intergate.caroot.html
Dr, Meining again.
Quoted message said:
toothwisdom.nettoothwisdom.net
Link to a dental office with a legal disclaimer section two pages long
Quoted message said:
dentistryholistic.comeducation.html
A link to asome guy's dental office who has no idea of current dental thinking.
Quoted message said:
hugnet.comRoot Canals.html
Guess what? A site to sell books.
Quoted message said:
karlloren.comp25.htm
This guy is selling a special diet.
Quoted message said:
hallvtox.dircon.co.ukhallvt.html
Link to a dental office in the UK which sells,,,,,,,,,,,, did you guess? A BOOK!!!!
Now I see why I prefer to filter ja. dre.. posts
PLEASE, any lay people reading this, understand this lady/man/posting program refered to as ja. dre.
and a bunch of numbers reminiscent of Disney's Stitch character,,,,,, lies,,,, and tries to get you
to spoil your health and spend all your money on bogus treatment which NOT improve your health in
any way. </quote>
6. Jan Drew works for Scientology
#################################
This is one of the examples where you can see, how Jan Drew defends Scientology. Jan Drew CLAIMS to
be interested in naturopathy, but actually Jan Drew is an advertizing agency. Jan Drew's behavior is
typical for this breed...
Example 1: <quote> X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 21 Sep 2003 00:40:47 GMT References:
<[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re:
"Psychbusters" = CCHR = $cientology Cult FRONT Message-ID: <20030920204047.18243.00001203@mb-
m06.aol.com>
Quoted message said:
Subject: "Psychbusters" = CCHR = $cientology Cult FRONT From: Nomen Nescio [email hidden] Date:
9/20/2003 1:20 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
$cientology member
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz </quote>
Example 2: <quote> X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 22 Sep 2003 02:51:58 GMT References:
<[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: Scientology's
advertising in these newsgroups Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Subject: Scientology's advertising in these newsgroups From: [email hidden] (Fredric L.
Rice) Date: 9/21/2003 12:33 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
<[email hidden]>
You might have read a posting by some anonymous Scientologist
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz </quote>
Example 3: <quote> X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 22 Sep 2003 02:53:00 GMT References:
<[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: What is
$cientology? - A posting by an ex-member to answer reports of recent Scientology postings Message-
ID: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
What is $cientology?
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ </quote>
Example 4: <quote> From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Date: 06 Oct
2003 05:29:16 GMT References: <[email hidden]> Subject: Re: Committee On
House Reform - ADHD Drugs Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: Committee On House Reform - ADHD Drugs From: Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
Date: 10/5/2003 9:10 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
<[email hidden]>
(Jan) said:
TESTIMONY BY LISA MARIE PRESLEY INTERNATIONAL SPOKESPERSON FOR CHILDREN'S RIGHTS, FOR CITIZENS
COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS

INTERNATIONAL
A Scientologist appearing on behalf of a Scientology front group. Now that's something you don't
see every day.
Umm, you are seeing ADHD hearings.
Listen up, rather than the same ole same ole of the Scientology excuses.
You are an intolerant fascist bigot. </quote>
7. Jan Drew works for Hulda Clark
#################################
In a posting dated november, 16th, 2003, Jan Drew advertizes for Hulda Clark, a known criminal
charlatan.
The "zapper" does not kill bacteria. The claims by Jan Drew are outrageous lies.
<quote> Lines: 47 X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 16 Nov 2003 07:00:50 GMT References: <Go-dnVn9E-
[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: Zapper kills
infectious bacteria Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-
Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Subject: Zapper kills infectious bacteria From: "f®Èé RådicaL" [email hidden] Date: 11/15/2003
10:52 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
Hi all. I'd like to report that I've used a zapper for a few years now and it does seem to work on
infectious bacteria, based on my experience.
I originally built a zapper (I have a degree in electrical engineering) from Radio Shack parts
using the plans in Hulda Clark's book. I tried it for awhile to kill intestinal parasites and then
stopped using it. A few years later I developed a high fever with a serious left ear infection to
the point where I could feel pressure on the ear drum. I decided to try the zapper. I ran it for
about 10 minutes holding the copper electrodes in my hands. About an hour later, green pus started
coming out of my left tear duct. Obviously, the bacteria in the ear or tear duct were dying in
great numbers, creating the resultant pus which was forced out the tear duct. This alarmed me (I
didn't completely trust the zapper at that point) and ran to the doctor for antibiotics, to be on
the safe side.
I have since used a zapper whenever I feel a fever or scratchy throat coming on, or when a lot of
people are getting sick at the office. Typically the fever/scratchy throat is gone overnight after
using it. It still takes some time to get over the feeling of being sick, but at least the zapper
keeps the infection under control so I don't need to run to the doctor anymore for antibiotics. For
me the worst part of being sick is the fever, which the zapper seems to break very quickly.
Does anyone else (besides the usual anti-quackers) in this group have anything of interest to
report about using a zapper? I suggest the skeptics build or buy one and try it on themselves
before dismissing it outright. BTW I don't have any financial interest in Hulda Clark or any zapper-
related products.
Yes, my hubby built one, then later I bought one that clips on to free up your hands. It works for
most any condition you feel coming on. It works for parasites just as she says, it also works on my
doggy. I also have no financial interest, however I do know Hulda personally, as her son was in my
daycare years ago. She may be wrong about some things, she is 100% correct about the teeth. She is a
loving and caring very fine person.
You may be attacked, ignore them.
Jan
Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time. John Bain </quote>
And Jan Drew continues with libelling and defaming his critics.
As I said above, the "zapper" does not kill bacteria. The claims by Jan Drew are outrageous lies.
The FTC states in
ftc.govdrclarkcmp.htm
<quote> DEFENDANTS' VIOLATIONS OF THE FTC ACT
8. Section 5(a) of the FTC Act, 15 U.S.C. § 45(a), prohibits deceptive acts or practices in or
affecting commerce. Section 12(a) of the FTC Act, 15 U.S.C. § 52(a), prohibits the dissemination
of any false advertisement in or affecting commerce for the purpose of inducing, or which is
likely to induce, the purchase of food, drugs, devices or cosmetics. As set forth below,
defendants have engaged and are continuing to engage in such unlawful practices in connection
with the marketing and sale of various products, including the Super-Zapper Deluxe, Syncrometer,
the Dr. Clark's New 21 Day Program for Advanced Cancers, and the Complete Herbal Parasite
Program, (also called the Herbal Parasite Cleanse).
9. Through their advertising and promotional materials, including, but not limited to, the
representations set forth in Paragraph 12, above, and through the use of their Internet
websites, "www.drclark.net" and "www.drclark.com" defendants have represented expressly or by
implication that:
a.  Use of the Super-Zapper Deluxe is effective to kill bacteria, viruses and parasites in the
human body;
b.  Use of the Super-Zapper Deluxe is effective against chronic infections, cancer and Acquired
Immunodeficiency Syndrome (AIDS);
c.  The Super-Zapper Deluxe and the Complete Herbal Parasite Program, are effective to cure all
forms of cancer in humans;
d.  Dr. Clark's New 21 Day Program for Advanced Cancers is effective to cure all forms of cancer
in humans;
e.  Dr. Clark's New 21 Day Program for Advanced Cancers has cured numerous people with advanced
cases of cancer;
f.  The Syncrometer device is more accurate than the best testing methods at diagnosing all forms of
disease;
g.  The Syncrometer device can detect the presence of any substance at specific points in the
human body.
h.  The Super-Zapper Deluxe, used together with the Complete Herbal Parasite Program, is effective
to cure AIDS;
i.  The Super-Zapper Deluxe, used together with the Complete Herbal Parasite Program and avoidance
of pollutants, is effective to cure diabetes, multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's, endometriosis,
asthma and many other diseases.
j.  Dr. Clark's New 21 Day Program for Advanced Cancers and Super-Zapper Deluxe, when used by
persons with cancer, make surgery and chemotherapy unnecessary.
15. Defendants did not possess and rely upon a reasonable basis that substantiated the
representations set forth in Paragraph 14, above, at the time the representations were made.
Therefore, the making of the representations set forth in Paragraph 14, above, is deceptive and
constitutes false advertising for a food, drug or device, in violation of the FTC Act, 15 U.S.C.
§§ 45(a), 52 and 55.
CONSUMER INJURY
16. As a result of defendants' unlawful acts or practices, consumers throughout the United States
have suffered and continue to suffer monetary loss and possible injuries to their health.
Defendants also have been unjustly enriched as a result of their unlawful practices. Absent
injunctive relief by this Court, the defendants are likely to continue to injure consumers, reap
unjust enrichment and harm the public interest.
THIS COURT'S POWER TO GRANT RELIEF
17. Section 13(b) of the FTC Act, 15 U.S.C. § 53(b), authorizes this Court to grant injunctive and
other equitable relief, including consumer redress, disgorgement and restitution, to prevent and
remedy any violations of any provision of law enforced by the Commission. </quote>
The full text is too long to include it in this usenet posting.
Here a detail, found in quackwatch.orgclark.html :
<quote> The FTC's case was supported by three lengthy affidavits that dissected and thoroughly
debunked Hulda Clark's theories and treatments. Among other things:
Aron Primack, M.D., a cancer specialist who is Associate Professor of Preventive Medicine and
Biometrics at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Maryland,
stated that, Hulda Clark's books "do not provide competent and reliable evidence" to support her
claims [19]. --> quackwatch.orgprimack.html
Peter W. Pappas, Ph.D., a prominent parasitologist and Professor Emeritis at the Ohio State
University, stated (a) although cancer and AIDS are found worldwide, the parasite Clark blames
for them is limited to South East Asia; (b) "Clark's 'case histories' represent an egregious
example of a highly biased experimental protocol, and her theories are based on bad science"; and
(c) "She clearly does not have a basic understanding of the most fundamental parasitological
principles." [20] -->
quackwatch.orgpappas.html
Joseph Pizzorno, N.D., the nation's top naturopath, stated that, "No research is presented
demonstrating that the Zapper has any physiological effects, let alone ability to kill parasites
or cure cancer. The claim that mild electrical shocks to the skin can eliminate intestinal
parasites is, frankly, preposterous." [21] -->
quackwatch.orgpizzorno.html </quote>
As you can see, Hulda Clark is a criminal. The Hulda Clark sales company was sentenced because of
the zapper stuff, the very same zapper stuff Jan Drew in his posting claims to work.
So, for all clear to see :
Jan Drew supports a criminal, AND Jan Drew even tells the very same
******************************************************************
lies the US Court has expressively forbidden.
*********************************************
18. Rich Shewmaker: "$KaChing is Working!!"
##########################################
In his posting Rich Shewmaker explains some of the backgounds of the "$KaChing"...
<quote> From: "Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Subject:
$KaChing is Working!! Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 05:47:29 -1000 Message-ID:
<[email hidden]>
Quackwatch Ratbags
July $100* $70 August 38 20 September 28 10
*donation capped -- actual "LIAR" count was 132
For the newcomers who don't know what $KaChing is, at the beginning of July, I proposed donating $1
to Quackwatch every time Jan called someone here a LIAR. Her nasty habit of shouting LIAR at
everyone who disagrees with her was becoming annoying to me, and, since this is an unmoderated
newsgroup where freedom of speech applies, the only way to change this behavior was to use behavior
modification. There are no channels of positive reinforcement available, so punishment seemed the
most effective approach. Jan has expressed her hatred of Dr. Barrett and his Quackwatch website
repeatedly, thus my plan to apply a mild punishment for her behavior. The problem is that, unlike
positive reinforcement that can be effective with a variable schedule, punishment must be
consistently meted with every infraction. Thus, the one dollar sting. A few days later, I added a $5
sting donation to Ratbags for every time Jan brought up the tragic death of a child to accuse Peter
B. of something or other, though I've never understood just how Jan's warped brain connected him
with that case and assigned the guilt.
Anyway, as the figures above show, the program seems to be effective. Jan even got through the
September Ritalin wars without maxing out the Quackwatch donation. If $KaChing continues to be
effective, I may add a $1 "insomnia fine" for every time Jan does her childish "ZZZZzzzz" response.
See you next month, and thank you Mark Thorson and any others who are participating. </quote>
19. "The Importance of Mass Name Calling"
########################################
Jan Drew displays a fine moral. Allways nice, allways polite, always helpfull. Unless... the truth
shows up. Persons who show the real backgrounds of Jan Drew, oh, they are REAL BAD. Jan Drew uses
foul language, and says that some of his critics are connected with Satan. Here is a collection by
which Jan Drew shows his real face...:
<quote> Path:oofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-
m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 40 X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Date: 10 Nov 2003 06:03:05 GMT Organization: AOL
aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: The Importance of Mass Name Calling Message-ID: <20031110010305.12560.00000450@mb-
m06.aol.com> Xref: news.freenet.de misc.health.alternative:325036
Rich Shewmaker who has no integrity, He doesn't give a damn if all the debunkers lie.
Richard H Jacobson, proven liar, badgerer, stalker and sad human excuse of a human being.
Andrew Kingoff who hides behing the fake name of IIsa. Likes to deconstruct others, has a fetish for
steaming bags of feces, and pounding of sand up one's ass.
Peter Bowditch who isn't man of his words and a proven liar.
David Wright, grump of the year whose intent is to make others angry.
DC Sessions who acts like a spoiled brat.
Ted Nidiffer, who hides behing the name NanaWeedkiller, lackey for Barrett.
Mark Thorson who repeats himself several times a day. Known liar who has to make retractions,
another lackey for Barrett.
Mark MD whose hobby is to annoy.
Mark Probert, all of the above.
WB and Dickinson both trolls.
Joel Eichen who needs his mercury level checked, acts like a chicken with it's head off.
Aribert Deckers, no words to describe this loon.
A sad sorry *dishonest* bunch.
Who ALL have EGO problems, push drugs and overlook all needless deaths mistakes and FRAUD within
organized medicine.
That's a FACT, Jack. </quote>
Now, keep in mind, that Jan Drew claims to have owned a child care center. Would you ever give a
child to a person of such paranoid behavior...?
20. Deadly fraud in the healthcare system
#########################################
Jan Drew, for his crime is abusing efforts of Shawn Korrami and other honest fighters against
dental amalgam.
Jan Drew is lying by mixing up true facts with snake-oil dealer lies. This is the way Jan Drew is
disguising his real intention : to advertize quackery in large scale.
Jan Drew is an unscrupulous liar and is misleading ill people into misery.
Here is just one example of what can happen to one who believes "persons" like Jan Drew :
<quote> Betroffene berichten "Leben" mit Amalgam-Vergiftung
- und andere Dinge im Umgang mit Ärzten - 7
6.1.2002 *
(A20106)Allzuleicht verlassen sich Kranke auf Behauptungen Anderer. Manche bezahlen diese
Gutgläubigkeit mit dem Leben. Gerade noch mit dem Leben davongekommen, aber schwerkrank ist
der arme Mann, der mir erlaubt hat, seine Bitte um Hilfe zu veröffentlichen. Falls jemand
etwas weiß, das ihm helfen kann: BITTE MELDEN SIE SICH! Ill people too often believe in what
others say. Many pay for this with their life. Having survived but severly ill, a poor man
sent me this email and allowed me to publish his request for help.
Aribert Deckers
**************************************************************************
DMSA and the DMSA-Hg complex half-life, and the normal values.
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 Hi! I was looking for S. Emerson's old page - and found your mirror. If you
know his present e-mail address please forward that message quoted below to him. I would also be
grateful if you would reply to that letter as well. Thank you! (Name)
------- Forwarded message follows ------- Hi! I hope that you remeber my e-mail from October 1999. I
am sorry for such a long silence, but the enormity of the disasters in my family in recent years is
just incredible.
I lost finaly my job due to the illness, and I got cerebral haemorhage on the 1st of June 2000 - for
four weeks doctors were not sure if I survive, but I am still alive as you see.
I got that cerebral haemorrage during taking of DMSA. Who knows maybe it was involved in it? I found
on that page altcorp.comhgtoxicity.htm an information that DMSA can cause
thrombocystosis. I was taking DMSA produced by Fluka as a chemical reagent (>98% pure). Medical
pills of DMSA were rather too expensive for me.
I felt worse than usually when taking DMSA - is that normal reaction?
I keep my urine samples (gathered when taking DMSA) frozen in photografic film plastic containers.
I would like to measure Hg level in it, but they (a lab in Lodz, Poland) want to charge me for every
container as for completely separated analysis, so I have to choose just a few samples (3 or maybe 5
samples) for analysis to reduce my expenses. They would measure it by AAS cold vapours technique.
I don't know what is metabolism and half-life of DMSA and DMSA-Hg complex in our organisms, so I am
not sure which samples to choose for analysis. Maybe you could help me? I am attaching a word file
with a table indicating when and how much DMSA I took, and when urine samples were taken. On the
last page in that file is also a copy of my CAT scan.
Do you know what values of Hg are considered normal and what high in urine *when taking DMSA*? I
would be grateful if you would provide me with that data.
I am now on 1 year of temporary pension due to the cerebral heamorrahage, though I have been already
not able to work earlier due to Hg vapours poisoning in the lab with severe CFIDS/ME like symptoms.
This year also my grandmother had a stroke (we don't even know for sure whether that was a bleeding
stroke or not, because doctors here stint on doing CAT scans or MRI for elderly people), and she
became left side paralysed. My mother is also not well, having very strong headaches. We both being
ill have to take care alone about my paralysed grandmother - it is very exhausting, and often we
also cannot sleep at night because of her (she often doesn't sleep all night long talking often
without much sense to herself - that's another result of the stroke). Doctors here are not helpful
at all, they would rather want us all to die, so that we would not bother them again. And what are
the conditions and treatment in our hospitals is a subject for yet another long horror story.
We just live in hell on Earth.
We would like to move out from here to another country, but that's not easy without any help
from outside.
I'll better finish here.
Hope to hear from you soon. Best wishes
[Name) ------ End of forwarded message ------- * hier geht's weiter ! [ Das Amalgam-Zentrum ]
Copyright © 2000 - 2002 Aribert Deckers and Copyright © 2000 - 2002 Antares Real-Estate Jegliche
Weiterverwendung der Texte der Amalgam-Page ist verboten. Verlage dürfen sich wegen der
Nachdruckrechte per Email an mich wenden. Aribert Deckers </quote>
People like Jan Drew are responsible for the fate of victims like this ill man.
Jan Drew is a damned shame for the human race.
11. Jan Drew and the Attack on the WTC,
#######################################
Jan Drew's Antisemitism
#######################################
In a posting, dated november, 12th. 2003, Mr. Rich shows Jan Drew's antisemitism :
<quote> From: Rich<,@.> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Subject: Jan Drew, lowest of lows (Was
Re: A message to a sick son of a [censored].!) Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
References: <[email hidden]>
<[email hidden]> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 04:28:50 GMT
(Jan) said:
Sadly, his enablers will be right along.
It matters not to them how low one is, they defend each others, as in:
Jan is one to talk about how low one can go defend her enablers. The following is an antisemitic
rant made by one of Jan's enablers. Read the post and then read Jan's comment following it if you
want to read the lowest of lows:
Debbee1023 says:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
I am beginning to think there are dentists who are among those who are paid to talk against the
anti-amalgam campaign, and I am beginning to wonder which ethnic group of people owns those dental
supply businesses? I understand there is one large ethnic group that pushes their "people" into
the medical field, and those that cannot stand the sight of blood end up as lobbyists, teachers,
politicians, entertainers, etc., and that anyone that goes against "their thinking" is ridiculed.
The problem being, I am beginning to think all of thismuch to do about nothing in the field of
alternative medicine is all true about this particular heritage, and maybe a certain European
leader was right long

time ago.
Quoted message said:
The "almighty" dollar is the most important material object in this culture's life. Not all of the
people connected, are of that nature, but I'm beginning to understand why the attacks on the U.S.
were planned on the cities that were chosen. It's not just alternative medicine that has been
attempted to be hijacked...it all because of pure GREED, that has some of these people so
possessed, that they feel they are OWED for something that happened years AGO. Instead of "getting
over it", like most people do, that have been abused, they keep abusing others that are not of
that culture, in an attempt to "even the score."

Jan the despicable antisemite agrees:
Quoted message said:
Yes, it does appear that way, along with the ole EGO thingie.
Jan
So there you have it. Jan Drew agrees with [censored]'s plan to exterminate millions of Jews simply
because of their religion. And Jan Drew calls herself a Christian. Lord have mercy.
What would Jesus (a jew) have to say about Jan Drew endorsing someone who said that [censored] was right
about the Jews. Jan may find out on judgment day.
Aloha,
Rich
Quoted message said:
------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
The best defense to logic is ignorance. </quote>
12. The "Jew joy" case
#######################
Trying to find the original posting by Jan Drew with his attacks, calling someone "jew boy", I found
2 postings missing in my "Agent" archive file. Seems as if somebody cancelled them before I could
download them with "Agent" in those days. I do not know, who is responsible for these postings being
cancelled, but I think, that pieces of proof like these should be made public.
So, I herewith to public show these 2 pieces of proof, as can be found with Google :
<quote> Lines: 30 X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 02 May 2002 19:59:32 GMT References: <20020502140729.27680.00006101@mb-
fs.aol.com> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: Doctor Syndromes Message-ID: <20020502155932.08640.00006955@mb-
cp.aol.com>
Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: Doctor Syndromes From: [email hidden] (Ilsa Nein) Date: 5/2/02 11:07 AM Pacific
Daylight Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
If you have Fibromyalgia, then you have one of these Syndromes too!
LAZY DOCTOR SYNDROME

<Snip>
Perhaps, Bubba, folks who believe they have one of these "syndromes" should see an alternative
medical practitioner. Those so afflicted should consider consulting their yellow pages for an
Acupuncturist near them.
Please stay clear of
Southern Acupuncture Inc.
I.L.S.A.
1403 Audubon Blvd. #1A
Wilmington, NC
910-799-5777
Jan </quote>
<quote> Lines: 54 X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 04 May 2002 04:35:36 GMT References: <20020503231752.05277.00006469@mb-
co.aol.com> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: Doctor Syndromes Message-ID: <20020504003536.28298.00007240@mb-
fe.aol.com>
Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: Doctor Syndromes From: [email hidden] (Ilsa Nein) Date: 5/3/02 8:17 PM Pacific
Daylight Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: Doctor Syndromes From: [email hidden] (Ilsa Nein) Date: 5/2/02 11:07 AM Pacific
Daylight Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
>If you have Fibromyalgia, then you have one of these Syndromes too!
>
>
>LAZY DOCTOR SYNDROME
>
<Snip>
Perhaps, Bubba, folks who believe they have one of these "syndromes" should see an alternative
medical practitioner. Those so afflicted should consider consulting their yellow pages for an
Acupuncturist near them.
Please stay clear of
Southern Acupuncture Inc.
I.L.S.A.
1403 Audubon Blvd. #1A
Wilmington, NC
910-799-5777
Jan
Jan, quit shilling, it is against the MHA 10 Commandments.
Little do you know anything about the *10 Commandments* Jew Boy.
Please stay clear of
Southern Acupuncture Inc.
I.L.S.B.
1403 Audubon Blvd. #1A
Wilmington, NC
910-799-5777 </quote>
13. Jan Drew Lied About Having Mercury Poisoning from Amalgams
##############################################################
Are Jan Drew's claims true ? Here is a differing opinion.
(I mounted the quotes with the original FULL texts included. Please note, that, by mounting the
texts, the quotation marks differ.)
<quote> From: Rich<,@.> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Subject: Jan Drew Lied About Having
Mercury Poisoning from Amalgams Message-ID: <[email hidden]> Date: Sat,
15 Nov 2003 18:43:19 GMT
As regular readers of this newsgroup know, there is a poster Jan Drew who obsessively posts about
how she nearly died of mercury poisoning secondary to amalgams. She claims that the removal of
several amalgams saved her life.
But Jan lied several times regarding her amalgam history in order to deceive others that she really
had mercury poisoning when what she actually had was a deterioration in her preexisting illness
(peripheral neuropathy) secondary to psychologic factors (worrying obsessively about having mercury
poisoning due to reading about it in Hulda Clark book). She also had a dramatic improvement due to
psychologic factors (relief that the removal of amalgams eliminated the mercury poisoning).
Now Jan drew ADMITTED in HER OWN WORDS that the reason she went from thinking that she was dying of
mercury poisoning one day and feeling better than she had the next day within hours of having some
amalgams removed was completely due to relief. Now I will allow Jan Drew to tell you her in own
words that her improvement was due to relief:
Here are her exact words posted on June 18th, 1999 to usenet
[QUOTE, mounted]
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
I have been reading this thread. I have peripheral neuropathy. I have found a dentist
(alternative) who knows that mercury amalgams are very dangerous. They can cause all manner of
things. He will remove them and put in composities. I have just had 3/4 of mine remover. The
others will come out in a few weeks, along with the one root canal, which will be extracted.
Quoted message said:
If an individual has read on this subject and is knowledgable, he will take care of you.
Quoted message said:
He has written "Tooth Truth and tells it like it is. He tells how the ADA has covered up this
problem.
Quoted message said:
So, it is just a matter of finding the right dentist. He has people flying in from all over to get
the work done.
Quoted message said:
I believe the mercury is the cause of my problems. I hav felt better today that I have in the last
2 years, and am looking forward to getting the rest of the mercury out and the root canal pulled.
Quoted message said:
Jan
<quote, full original> google.degroups
fm1.aol.com&output=gplain
From: [email hidden] (JDrew63929) Subject: Re: Any comments on this explanation for allergy?
(yes, of course 🙂 Date: 1999/06/18 Message-ID: <[email hidden]>#1/1
References: <[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Newsgroups:
alt.health.dental-amalgam X-Admin: [email hidden]
Quoted message said:
Hi Zugumba,
You said:
Actually, Joel is perfectly correct as far as things go in the US.
You think he never sent a patient with a cold home to avoid catching it?
Quoted message said:
dentist can lose his license for treating a systemic illness
What is really a systemic illness. Is that a disease that hits all systems in the body or ' just '
a local condition with systemic (general) symptoms? Or even one, or a few, distant symptoms? What
is it really?
In most cases it is the latter. And as dentists, even in the States, we cannot avoid affecting the
body conditons when treating mouth conditions. The mouth IS a part of the body. And in many cases
also the body's mirror.
Quoted message said:
If Joel determined that a patient was suffering from a migraine and not a dental abscess, his job
stops there. He then is obligated to refer the patient to a neurologist.
Okay, Let's say it is rather diffuse oro-facial pain. What would you do?
Quoted message said:
Similarly, removing amalgam restorations to treat a systemic illness (like multiple sclerosis) is
considering treating an illness out of the scope of dental practice.
What you really are talking about is indications. Id est; for what purpose the dental treatment is
performed. Sofar teeth are treated for the reason of teeth, yes. One day (and it is emerging)
dentists will learn that what they do to one part of the body may effect other parts. I am not
saying that dental amalgam is the sole cause of MS. There are far closer relations between
classical systemic diseases and dental treatment, for exaple; an aggrevated heart condition due to
dental treatment, increased arterio- sclerotic plaque formation, etc (not to mention all the
iatrogenous TMJ:s)
Quoted message said:
After a certain point the patient has to be turned over to the correct medical practitioners to
finish the job or to follow-up.
That's a pretty obvious statement. Anyone would agree with that. And it doesn't disprove
what I wrote.
Quoted message said:
True, the line can be fuzzy, but most of the time it is pretty clear what range of ailments a
dentist in the US can treat
Submandibular lymphatic adenitis? May a dentist treat that - or not? In US?
Hans
I have been reading this thread. I have peripheral neuropathy. I have found a dentist (alternative)
who knows that mercury amalgams are very dangerous. They can cause all manner of things. He will
remove them and put in composities. I have just had 3/4 of mine remover. The others will come out in
a few weeks, along with the one root canal, which will be extracted.
If an individual has read on this subject and is knowledgable, he will take care of you.
He has written "Tooth Truth and tells it like it is. He tells how the ADA has covered up
this problem.
So, it is just a matter of finding the right dentist. He has people flying in from all over to get
the work done.
I believe the mercury is the cause of my problems. I hav felt better today that I have in the last 2
years, and am looking forward to getting the rest of the mercury out and the root canal pulled.
Jan </quote> [/QUOTE]
And now the admission that this improvement was due to relief:
Here are her exact words:
[QUOTE, mounted]
Quoted message said:
Rich for the LAST time, I said I felt better than I had in two years. That was very true. I had
been very very ill and my health was deteriorating fast. After much reading and research I was
convinced it was my teeth. I wasn't absolutely positivity 100% sure, but it all fit together and I
knew I had to do something. It wasn't easy, what if it didn't work? That was very stressful.
Quoted message said:
Finally all the work was done, the metal was out, the bill was paid, I didn't have to sit in the
dentist chairs for hours with a rubber dam in my mouth!!!!!!!!!! Of course I was very relieved. A
big big burden was lifted. That makes one FEEL BETTER.
What's so hard to understand?
<quote, full original> google.degroups
mm1.aol.com&output=gplain
Lines: 35 X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (JDrew63929) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 30 Dec 2000 04:24:15 GMT References:
<[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: This
skeptic's view of alt/comp Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
From: Rich {.} Date: 12/29/00 10:28 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id:
<[email hidden]>
Rich for the LAST time, I said I felt better than I had in two years. That was very true. I had been
very very ill and my health was deteriorating fast. After much reading and research I was convinced
it was my teeth. I wasn't absolutely positivity 100% sure, but it all fit together and I knew I had
to do something. It wasn't easy, what if it didn't work? That was very stressful.
Finally all the work was done, the metal was out, the bill was paid, I didn't have to sit in the
dentist chairs for hours with a rubber dam in my mouth!!!!!!!!!! Of course I was very relieved. A
big big burden was lifted. That makes one FEEL BETTER.
What's so hard to understand?
I also reported I had only begun, now on to chelating the mercury from my body. With mercury
poisoning, it comes and goes, I had some pretty bad spells. I'm still chelating Rich and will be for
some time. I slowly am regaining my health and my PN is much better. I don't have the painful
periods that I once had, and yes it was after I started taking medication.
You added a few words to what I said which *implied* that I was physicially free from
pain..........as in BANG I'm home free. That is NOT what I meant.............and you know it.
Now do you better understand? I hope so because I feel no need to explain it AGAIN. Please respect
that I didn't have to explain AGAIN this time.
Jan </quote> [/QUOTE]
All the work was done??? A lie. The work was not completed until weeks later. Jan Drew even posted
that her dental work was not done until July 11, 1999.
And now for more lies. Jan Drew told two egregious lies that were told solely to deceive people into
thinking that she really had mercury poisoning.
The first is on June 26 ,1999 just a week after she had eight amalgams removed. She claimed that ALL
her feet pain went away and she was able to go out line dancing because she was no longer getting a
daily dose of mercury. This is a complete lie and Jan knew it. On June 26, 1999 Jan still had more
amalgams to be removed and they would not be removed until July 11, 1999 by Jan's own admission. You
see Jan has difficulty keeping her lies straight.
But let us have Jan Drew tell us in her own words:
[QUOTE, mounted]
Quoted message said:
On 26 Jun 1999, JDrew63929 wrote:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
AF says *** More childish nonsense from poor, sick old Jan.
Well, Jan is doing fine, even went line dancing tonight! Guess that tells you something about
my feet..
Quoted message said:
This simply proves that your "neuralgia" is significantly the product of a somatization disorder.
Mercury accumulates in the body, and there is no way having your fillings removed a week or two
back could have instantly eliminated all mercury toxicity effects. It would take months or even
years for the benefits to occur, if the problem really was mercury toxicity. So if pulling your
fillings instantly cured your feet, we have a very solid case here that your "neuralgia" was
psychosomatic.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
You are way off base here. I didn't say I was instantly cured. The detoxing that I have done is a
major factor in my recovery. Yes, I will continue to do it for quite some time to remove the
mercury from my body. I am feeling much better, because I am not receiving a new dose of mercury
each day. The elimination of 8 mercury amalgams has made a difference. Nothing psychosomatic
about it.
<quote, full original> google.degroups
fl1.aol.com&output=gplain
From: [email hidden] (JDrew63929) Subject: Re: Chronic constipation Date: 1999/06/26 Message-ID:
<[email hidden]>#1/1 References: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9906261113290.23596-
[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative X-Admin: [email hidden]
Quoted message said:
JDrew63929 said:
Quoted message said:

*** More childish nonsense from poor, sick old Jan.
Well, Jan is doing fine, even went line dancing tonight! Guess that tells

you
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
something about my feet..
Quoted message said:
This simply proves that your "neuralgia" is significantly the product of a somatization disorder.
Mercury accumulates in the body, and there is no way having your fillings removed a week or two
back could have instantly eliminated all mercury toxicity effects. It would take months or even
years for the benefits to occur, if the problem really was mercury toxicity. So if pulling your
fillings instantly cured your feet, we have a very solid case here that your "neuralgia" was
psychosomatic.
You are way off base here. I didn't say I was instantly cured. The detoxing that I have done is a
major factor in my recovery. Yes, I will continue to do it for quite some time to remove the mercury
from my body. I am feeling much better, because I am not receiving a new dose of mercury each day.
The elimination of 8 mercury amalgams has made a difference. Nothing psychosomatic about it.
Quoted message said:
As a country musician, somehow I knew you were a line dancer. And that, combined with your recent
attempt to smear Texas and Texans, explains a lot.
AF
It does? My recent attemp to smear Texans? Now, please tell me, do you believe that people who like
line dancing are stupid? Please explain your remark. You are a country musician, you can't see
people truly enjoying themselves while line dancing? It was the first time I have been in a long,
long time. I do not even know how, I have watched, but my feet stopped me from learning. I was so
thankful to be back and tried a few lessons, THANK GOD, my feet didn't hurt! I felt alive again.
What a blessing!
Just as I thought that I knew you, you have really thrown me here. Please explain.
Jan [/QUOTE]
Nothing psychosomatic about it?!!?!?!?!?!?!? It was completely psychosomatic. Jan Drew's mercury
level at the time she made this statement was the highest in her life since she had eight amalgams
removed over a two day period only a week before.
The second lie is when she posted to sci.med.dentisty that the reason she knows that it was the
mercury in her mouth that caused her health problems was because she did not *begin* to regain her
health until *after* the mercury level dropped. Not only is this a complete lie and Jan knows it but
the complete opposite is true.
Jan Drew began to regain her health when her mercury level was the highest in her entire life. That
is right. When Jan Drew reported dramatic improvement in her health (ie better than she felt in two
years, and being able to line dance due to all the pain gone) her mercury level had not dropped and
was likely the highest in her life because this improvement occurred from hours to a week after her
amalgams were removed.
The reason that alternative dentists recommend slow removal of amalgams (some as posted by Jan Drew
suggest removing no more than one amalgam every three months) is because the removal of the amalgams
results in vaporization of mercury which even with perfect protocol will result in absorption into
the body of large amounts of mercury.
So on June 18 and 19, 1999 Jan had eight amalgams removed. On June 19, 1999 Jan said she felt better
than she had in two years.
On June 26, 1999 Jan said that she was able to go out line dancing because all her foot pain was
gone. Of course the pain only was gone for a short time because it was likely a placebo effect
due to her RELIEF that the mercury was coming out of her mouth. Just like she felt better than
she did in two years due to relief (by her OWN admission) she was able to go out line dancing a
week later when the absorption of mercury into her tissues from blood likely resulted in the
highest level in her life.
But Jan said that she knows it was the metal in her mouth because she did not BEGIN to regain her
health until AFTER her mercury level dropped. A complete lie and the pathologic liar Jan Drew knows
it. This is why she kill filed me. This is why she lies about me being a liar and a stalker. Jan
Drew knows that I exposed her lies and she refuses to admit it. She is a despicable human being
whose sole purpose in life is to shill for alternative dentists and to perpetuate the lie that she
had mercury poisoning from amalgams. She did not and the proof is in her own words.
Jan Drew will not respond to any of the points in this post. Instead she will pretend she is not
reading them and then personally attack me in order to discredit me. Just watch.
That's a wrap.
Aloha,
Rich
------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
The best defense to logic is ignorance. </quote>
14. The foul language of Jan Drew
#################################
On 06 Nov 2003 23:45:08 GMT, [email hidden] (Jan) wrote:
<quote> X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry Date: 06
Nov 2003 23:45:08 GMT Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: The Obsessed Nut Case Liar
Aribert Deckers Message-ID: <[email hidden]> Xref: news.freenet.de
sci.med.dentistry:176001
Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: [FAQ about Jan Drew's advertizing for quackery] 20031106 From: [email hidden]
(ChuckMSRD) Date: 11/6/2003 8:58 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <20031106115835.10454.00000314@mb-
m10.aol.com>
Quoted message said:
2. Nicknames and persons involved in the Jan Drew scam
Quoted message said:
"ChuckMSRD" [email hidden]
Wrong, and Aribert is an obsessed nut job.
Chuck
True. There is no Jan Drew scam. There is no advertising from me.
Neither do I know Chuck other than by his posts here.
Jan </quote>
(Jan) said:
The websites I post are written by DDS's MD's Ph.D researchers, people with actual experience,
and law makers.
Jan Drew admits to post material into the net.
**********************************************
This way Jan Drew is advertizing. Jan Drew just does not call it advertizing. Jan Drew's denial does
not make the advertizing no advertizing. Jan Drew's denial shows his pathologic character.
Jan Drew is a naturopath mafia advertizing agency and as such his words are rhetoric warfare.
Because that is the game --- as Jan Drew persuades people to go to charlatans and quacks.
15. Jan Drew's rhetorical warfare
#################################
As you have seen above, Jan Drew DOES advertize by posting material which is CONTRA scientific
medicine and PRO naturopath mafia stuff. In the following posting by Nana Weedkiller you see the
relevant points clearly :
<quote> From: "Nana Weedkiller" <[email hidden]> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
References: <[email hidden]>
<[email hidden]> Subject: Re: Re Complementary Medicine Grows By Leaps & Bounds Message-
ID: <[email hidden]> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 02:53:08 GMT
"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:

That's never been an issue, at least not with me. The goal is for both to work together.
You have on several occasions specifically stated that people are turning *away* from
conventional medicine and using alternative medicine *in

place
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
of* it.
Please do copy and paste the proof of this claim.
I thought I might help you out a little to remind you of what you've stated. No need to thank me.
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"...when one has exhausted the conventional route and found no answers, they turn to
alternative medicine. Many have found the answer been treated and are regaining their health.
It's called RESULTS."
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"Or one can turn to alternative medicine and find an answer,,,,,,,,,,,,and that is WHY one half of
people are turning to alternative medicine."
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"ONE of the MAIN reasons people turn to alternative medicine, is because conv. medicine HAS NO
ANSWERS,,,,,,,,,,,,"
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"Defects of conventional medicine are just one more reason to turn to alternative medicine, and stay
OUT of hospitals."
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"Furthmore, have you any clue as to WHY people are turning to alternative??
BECASE THEY ARE DISSATIFIED WITH CONVENTIONAL MEDIC!NE!!!"
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"When conv. has no answers, it's time to turn to alternative. Many are finding answers and treatment
that is working."
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"And many times they get NO diagnoses because it isn't in the recipe book. Many people turn to
alternative because conv. has no answers."
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"Their *real* doctor? The reason most people are turning to AM is because their conv. doctor has NO
answers, because REAL conditions are being denied."
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"In many cases conv. medicine has no answers, that's because many *real* diseases are denied.
People tuurn to alternative to get to the *root* of the problem."
Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
"You will find that most people are turning to alternative because conventional medicine has no
answers." </quote>
The naturopath mafiosi always invite the scientific medicine to cooperate with them. But the
naturopath mafia seeds hatred against scientific medicine whereever possible.
There will NEVER be any kind of cooperation, as it is the naturopath mafia which wants to rule the
world ALONE, and may it cost the life of all patients.
16. Children die because of criminals like Jan Drew
###################################################
(Jan) said:
This is truly evil.
Jan
This is a report from WHO in 1997 :
who.intfs 180.htm <quote> "Measles
The problem: Despite the major impact made on this disease by successful immunization programmes,
measles infects over 40 million children and kills over 800,000 under-fives each year. That
translates to 2,000 deaths of young children every day from measles, often in association with
diarrhoea and pneumonia. IMCI solution: Young children with measles often develop acute respiratory
infections, diarrhoea and malnutrition, and children who survive measles are more vulnerable to
other dangerous infections for several months afterwards. Trained health workers learn to recognize
the complications of measles that they can treat and those that need rapid referral for more
specialized treatment." </quote>
What is more evil than to kill children ?
Children die. They die because they have not been vaccinated. They die because of infections which
they could have survived if they had been vaccinated.
And Jan Drew persuades people NOT to have their children vaccinated...
Jan Drew denies that he is against vaccination, but here is a piece of proof (one of many to
be found) :
[long, but with reason not abridged]
<quote> From: "Tony Bad" <[email hidden]> Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry References:
<[email hidden]> Subject: Re: Mercury in the mouth Lines: 38 X-
Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-
MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID:
<[email hidden]> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:20:37 -0400 NNTP-Posting-
Host: 24.186.4.238 X-Trace: news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net 1032492423 24.186.4.238 (Thu, 19 Sep 2002
23:27:03 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:2

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Happy Oyster
Archived post

26 December 2003, 23:08 UTC #5

(Jan) said:
Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: Poor Richard H Jacobson From: [email hidden] Date: 12/26/2003 3:33 PM
Central Standard Time
Cancel
Really ? Jan Drew dares to cancel one of my postings ?
Very interesting...
Regards,
Aribert Deckers
--
World Conference "Health Care Systems: Public and Private Management"
ariplex.comama p0.htm

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Happy Oyster
Archived post

27 December 2003, 06:08 UTC #6

On 26 Dec 2003 22:52:53 GMT, [email hidden] (Jan) wrote:
With full headers :
<quote> Lines: 22 X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 26 Dec 2003 22:52:53 GMT References:
<[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: Poor
Richard H Jacobson Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: Poor Richard H Jacobson From: Happy Oyster [email hidden] Date: 12/26/2003
4:32 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
(Jan) said:
Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: Poor Richard H Jacobson From: [email hidden] Date: 12/26/2003 3:33 PM
Central Standard Time
Cancel
Really ? Jan Drew dares to cancel one of my postings ?
Very interesting...
You are too far gone to know they are too long and must be downloaded.
Duh.
Jan </quote>
So this is a confession. Very interesting.
Regards,
Aribert Deckers
--
World Conference "Health Care Systems: Public and Private Management"
ariplex.comama p0.htm

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Carabelli
Archived post

27 December 2003, 06:08 UTC #7

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote............
Quoted message said:
You can't even get it through your thick skull that I am not a male.
Proof please.
carabelli

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Happy Oyster
Archived post

27 December 2003, 20:09 UTC #8

On 27 Dec 2003 05:43:43 GMT, [email hidden] (Jan) wrote:
<quote> Lines: 60 X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 27 Dec 2003 05:43:43 GMT References:
<[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: Poor
Richard H Jacobson Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: Poor Richard H Jacobson From: Happy Oyster [email hidden] Date: 12/26/2003
9:29 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
On 26 Dec 2003 22:52:53 GMT, [email hidden] (Jan) wrote:
With full headers :
<quote> Lines: 22 X-Admin: [email hidden] From: [email hidden] (Jan) Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Date: 26 Dec 2003 22:52:53 GMT References:
<[email hidden]> Organization: AOL aol.comaol.com Subject: Re: Poor
Richard H Jacobson Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: Poor Richard H Jacobson From: Happy Oyster [email hidden] Date: 12/26/2003
4:32 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
(Jan) said:
>Subject: Re: Poor Richard H Jacobson From: [email hidden] Date: 12/26/2003 3:33 PM
>Central Standard Time
Cancel
Really ? Jan Drew dares to cancel one of my postings ?
Very interesting...
You are too far gone to know they are too long and must be downloaded.
Duh.
Jan </quote>
So this is a confession.
LOLOLOL. Why would I ever need to give the likes of you any confession??
Get over yourself. I can put people in my killfie and I can take them out if I see something is
anothers' post that gives me reason to do so.
You can't even get it through your thick skull that I am not a male.
Rattle on, nobody read your posts anyway. You have proven to be hopelessly lost.
Jan </quote>
Jan Drew says :
"I can put people in my killfie"
Yes, that is a terrible punishment. It really is a punishment, and it really is a terrible one. You
know where it is used ?: in kindergartens. It is part of the psychoterror used against children. Not
to be listened to is very frightening and painfull for a little child.
So, obviously, Jan Drew acts as if being the king in a kindergarten. Wouldn't it be for Jan Drew
high time to grow up and to react as a REAL-LIFE adult ?
But that is just an aside. I had asked Jan Drew if he confessed to have canceled my posting. And Jan
Drew answers about a killfile. A killfile is a totally different affair !
A killfile hinders the user to see the the postings which his program makes invisible for him. But
to cancel another user's posting means to delete that on the internet servers. Looks like Jan Drew
tried to do that. But, as far as I can see, he was not smart enough to do that...
Jan Drew's lame excuse is :
"You are too far gone to know they are too long and must be downloaded."
And now Jan Drew tries to hide behind something totally different. As is one of his most-
used tricks.
Regards,
Aribert Deckers
--
World Conference "Health Care Systems: Public and Private Management"
ariplex.comama p0.htm

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