Polar vs. Power tap

jmocallaghan said:

Folks, I am going to make the jump to power based training but want some opinions if anyone has them. I have been training with Polar HRMs now for about 10 yrs and do my running with a 625X and shoe pod so have an investiment in them already. Questions are:

1. Do people see the Polar as accurate as Power tap
2. What are the pros and cons to jumping on board with a polar?
3. I am running 3 x differnent sets of wheels all unique for conditons (hills, rollers, crits) and am reluctant to shift to powertap because of that, thoughts?

Thanks in advance!

It sounds like you answered your own question...

Here are a couple of links just in case you would like to make sure you know the right route for you...

midweekclub.compowerFAQ.htmOpen ↗

cyclingforums.comt 218022.htmlOpen ↗

tongfamily.com08Open ↗ (Scroll down)

Remember, Google is a wonderful tool... 🙂

jmocallaghan said:

1. Do people see the Polar as accurate as Power tap?

No. Even people who are quite happy with their polar units tend to concede this. See http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/pm_review.htm for a detailed review.

Quoted post said:

2. What are the pros and cons to jumping on board with a polar?

Pros: cheapest of available power technologies, especially if you already own one of the upgradable HRMs.
Cons: Least accurate of available power meters. Reputation for finickiness (though really, all power meters are a bit on the flaky side compared to, say, your DVD player or your toaster).

Quoted post said:

3. I am running 3 x differnent sets of wheels all unique for conditons (hills, rollers, crits) and am reluctant to shift to powertap because of that, thoughts?

Sure. Those different wheels probably don't make as big a difference to your performance as it "feels" like they do. Aerodynamics matter much more to performance than weight over a surprisingly wide variety of terrain (including, e.g., what most people would call "rollers"😉, so if you end up picking just one set of race wheels, make them aero. If you're unwilling to ditch the "bat-cave full o' wheels", and you don't feel like shelling out for the gold standard SRM cranks, many people have had acceptable results with the ergomo unit, and I'm sure you'll hear from some people who are happy with their Polar setups.

I'm just setting up a Polar unit at the moment. Everything is absolutely fine so far apart from a few gears in the big chainring, which I'm adjusting to sort out. Everything's being done on the turbo trainer at the moment which might be a factor but I've nearly sorted it

It's so much cheaper than the other options (I managed to get an s725 including power sensor for £165 brand new off eBay), and you just need to do a bit of research re: setup. If you use an s625x at the moment then as all you need is repeatability, surely it's worth a go. If you can manage to get hold of a power unit second hand, and then decide you don't like it and want to sell it on, that's not going to cost you more than $50 or so at the end of it all? And surely it's worth the hassle if you decide you like it anyway!

Xav

jmocallaghan said:

Folks, I am going to make the jump to power based training but want some opinions if anyone has them. I have been training with Polar HRMs now for about 10 yrs and do my running with a 625X and shoe pod so have an investiment in them already. Questions are:

1. Do people see the Polar as accurate as Power tap
2. What are the pros and cons to jumping on board with a polar?
3. I am running 3 x differnent sets of wheels all unique for conditons (hills, rollers, crits) and am reluctant to shift to powertap because of that, thoughts?

Thanks in advance!

Skip the Polar.
Save time and money now.
If you're serious about training with power, go another route.

jmocallaghan said:

Folks, I am going to make the jump to power based training but want some opinions if anyone has them. I have been training with Polar HRMs now for about 10 yrs and do my running with a 625X and shoe pod so have an investiment in them already. Questions are:

1. Do people see the Polar as accurate as Power tap
2. What are the pros and cons to jumping on board with a polar?
3. I am running 3 x differnent sets of wheels all unique for conditons (hills, rollers, crits) and am reluctant to shift to powertap because of that, thoughts?

Thanks in advance!

I've had the Polar for about 6 months now. Have had my issues with it. Persistent problems with the speed sensor reading wrong until I moved it about 4 inches away from the rear axel. Polar recommends it be near the rear axel. Other than that it has been trouble free.

My problem with the Polar is that its very hard to maintain a given range of power during my rides. My Polar unit makes it very hard to use power while riding to maintain a reasonable power range especially on varied terrain. Its my understanding the PT has an interval function that smooths the power that you see thus making it easier to view or maintain a given power range. Any PT users, please chime in on this.....

I am struggling with trying to decide to buy a PT Pro SL or buying a set of Zipp 404. I can get a really good price on the 404 right now from my LBS.

Sprint2Win said:

Skip the Polar.
Save time and money now.
If you're serious about training with power, go another route.

I agree. Here's my prediction. You'll get the Polar because you already have an investment in Polar, this leverages that investment, you like the Polar graphs, it is the cheapest power option by far and you're not quite sure this power training is all it's cracked up to be anyway. Fast forward six months. You've figured out power training is great and you're fed up with only having good power data some of the time plus being totally worthless on a trainer. Then you sell your whole kit on eBay and get a real power meter.

RapDaddyo said:

I agree. Here's my prediction. You'll get the Polar because you already have an investment in Polar, this leverages that investment, you like the Polar graphs, it is the cheapest power option by far and you're not quite sure this power training is all it's cracked up to be anyway. Fast forward six months. You've figured out power training is great and you're fed up with only having good power data some of the time plus being totally worthless on a trainer. Then you sell your whole kit on eBay and get a real power meter.

I appreciate everyone's input, some good notes here. It appears to be more or less a 'pay me now or pay me later' situation in regards to the power meters. Given that, it does not seem like Polar is the way to go.

RapDaddyo said:

I agree. Here's my prediction. You'll get the Polar because you already have an investment in Polar, this leverages that investment, you like the Polar graphs, it is the cheapest power option by far and you're not quite sure this power training is all it's cracked up to be anyway. Fast forward six months. You've figured out power training is great and you're fed up with only having good power data some of the time plus being totally worthless on a trainer. Then you sell your whole kit on eBay and get a real power meter.

Umm...he already has a Polar watch. Like another poster suggested, he can probably pick up a power module used for $50-$100. Why not give it a shot? The Polar gets a bad rep mostly because of set-up issues...but, in my experience, if you get the initial set-up right, the operation and performance are pretty trouble-free.

The key tips for getting reliable output from a Polar are:
1. Make sure the chain passes over (in all usable gear combos) an approx. 1" square centered on the "middle" mark of the power module.
2. Maximum vertical distance from power module to the chain is 30mm. Get this dimension right even if it means there's rubbing in some small-small gear combos (you shouldn't be using them anyway 😉 ) I prefer to keep it a little closer and typically have mine setup to be no more than 25mm.
3. Weigh your chain. Sometimes the "table values" for chain weight can be a little off.
4. Take a careful measurement of your chainstay length.
5. Ditch the Polar supplied cadence magnet. Pick up a nice, strong, rare earth type magnet and glue it to your crank or the end of your pedal spindle.

I've been using a Polar power module for over 2.5 years now. I can count the times on only one hand in that time period where I didn't get power data because of some issue with the Polar.

Take a look at those PM reviews linked above. In head-to-head tests on the road, the Polar data tracks the SRM and PT data identically. The only places where there are "issues" with the data quality is in trying to capture short sprints and when used on a stationary trainer. Other than that, I've found it to be the best "bang for the buck" PM solution out there.

If you want to talk about finicky operation, go take a look at the wattage list on Topica and take a gander at all the PT issues like data drops, bearing cones, water intrusion, download problems...etc, etc. Then, with the Ergomo, all I've been reading about is how everyone has to adjust the settings to make it read "correctly". Even, the "almighty SRM" has it's issues as well...plus you have the problem of dealing with having to recharge the crank battery.

I say give it a shot. But be careful, you'll get used to having that altitude reading and won't want to switch to another PM (IF you do) that doesn't have one 😉

jmocallaghan said:

I appreciate everyone's input, some good notes here. It appears to be more or less a 'pay me now or pay me later' situation in regards to the power meters. Given that, it does not seem like Polar is the way to go.

Umm...no it's not. Don't be scared off by the Polar "fear mongers". See my message above.

The only reason I'd say not to get the Polar is if you were concerned about capturing sprint values or intended on using it on an indoor trainer on a regular basis.

Other than that you're talking a ~$350 sensor (maybe as low as $50 to $100 used...I actually lucked into TWO used sensor for only $50!). For a PT your talking $700-$800 used up to $1200 to $1400 new and that's just for one wheel...if you want another wheel, keep tacking on the bucks. An SRM Pro (don't bother with an amatuer - it has linearity issues) will be well over $2000, even used.

Sounds like a "no-brainer" to me, especially since you already have the 625...

Oh, and mine's working now 🙂 just spent 10min re-fiddling. One gear is odd on the trainer, but that's it

Xav

kmavm said:

No. Even people who are quite happy with their polar units tend to concede this. See http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/pm_review.htm for a detailed review.

I don't concede this...I can show you a study that shows that the data repeatability and reliability are actually better than an SRM.

kmavm said:

Pros: cheapest of available power technologies, especially if you already own one of the upgradable HRMs.
Cons: Least accurate of available power meters. Reputation for finickiness (though really, all power meters are a bit on the flaky side compared to, say, your DVD player or your toaster).

Again...What do you base this "least accurate" claim on? You're also right about all power meters having their "issues". In the case of the Polar, IMHO they are vastly overblown.

jmocallaghan said:

I appreciate everyone's input, some good notes here. It appears to be more or less a 'pay me now or pay me later' situation in regards to the power meters. Given that, it does not seem like Polar is the way to go.

If you're serious about switching to power.
Get THE book.
"Training and Racing with a Power Meter"
I'll save you days of research, just trying to decide on the power meter that best fits your needs.

Tom Anhalt said:

I don't concede this...I can show you a study that shows that the data repeatability and reliability are actually better than an SRM.

I guess not everybody concurs cyclingforums.comshowpost.phpOpen ↗.

I've had a few issues with the Polar. My speed sensor kept giving me crazy readings until I moved it about 5 inches from the rear hub on the chainstay. The recommendation to me was to put it as close to the rear hub as possible along the chainstay but that didn't work. I even sent the unit in twice only to be sent back telling me nothing was wrong with it. They were right, but trial and error and I figured it out.

My other issue as it relates to a PT is that power fluctuates so much on the Polar its nearly impossible except on a trainer to try to maintain a give power level for intervals. Its my understanding that on the PT during an interval is smooths the power reading so you are able to see a reasonably stable power output. If this is incorrect PT users please clarify. This reason along has me convinced I should be using a PT instead of the Polar.

Shawneebiker said:

Its my understanding that on the PT during an interval is smooths the power reading so you are able to see a reasonably stable power output. If this is incorrect PT users please clarify. This reason along has me convinced I should be using a PT instead of the Polar.

It really depends on the setup. The PT measures power at the hub 60x per second and the shortest averaging interval for the computer display is one (averaged) reading every 1.26 seconds. I have mine set up for the shortest averaging interval because I want to see changes instantly. But, you can set it up to average multiple observations. This will significantly smooth out the displayed values. On the road, the fluctuations are real because the torque we are applying to the drive train is highly stochastic. But, some people prefer to mask the inherent variability and see an averaged value. On a trainer, I can easily manage power to +/- 5 watts.

I've had both - I started with the polar and sold it after 2 months - too fiddly and unreliable for me. I picked up a powertap about a year later and I was shocked at how much easier it was to setup and use and how reliable (knock on wood) the readings were - it is virtually rock solid. No comparison for me - powertap for sure.

Here's an old thread from before I got my polar and I was having a similar dilemna to you:

cyclingforums.comt57065.htmlOpen ↗

RapDaddyo said:

I guess not everybody concurs cyclingforums.comshowpost.phpOpen ↗.

So...you'd take the word of a somewhat anonymous writer who randomly states "I still could not get anything like reliable and consistent power data from my rides..." (without explaining how he knew the results weren't reliable or consistent) over this statement from a published paper?

"The present results showed that the S710 is a highly reliable powermeter. The repeatability of the S710 appears better than some other devices (e.g. Kingcycle, Politechnica, Monark) available for recording power output, but similar to the SRM[8]." Miller GP et al. S710 Validity and Reliability, Int J Sports Med 2003; 24:156-161

Just curious... 🙄

Oops...I "misremembered" when I wrote the previous post. The Polar doesn't have better repeatability and reliability to an SRM...it's equal to it. Oh yeah...those "other devices" mentioned above are merely lab grade ergonometers :eek:

Tom Anhalt said:

So...you'd take the word of a somewhat anonymous writer who randomly states "I still could not get anything like reliable and consistent power data from my rides..." (without explaining how he knew the results weren't reliable or consistent) over this statement from a published paper?

"The present results showed that the S710 is a highly reliable powermeter. The repeatability of the S710 appears better than some other devices (e.g. Kingcycle, Politechnica, Monark) available for recording power output, but similar to the SRM[8]." Miller GP et al. S710 Validity and Reliability, Int J Sports Med 2003; 24:156-161

Just curious... 🙄

Actually, I've read a number of rule62's posts and I think he is a well informed, thoughtful guy. As to the published paper, the only device I recognize is the SRM. Was this a comparison of ergo devices? Anyway, rule62's post was made well after I made my decision so it didn't influence my decision one bit. What did influence my decision were the numerous posts about the Polar, PT, SRM and Ergomo available at the time I made my decision. Polar was the first one eliminated and Ergomo was the second. It came down to PT vs. SRM. But, hey, I'm glad you're happy with your Polar.

RapDaddyo said:

Actually, I've read a number of rule62's posts and I think he is a well informed, thoughtful guy. As to the published paper, the only device I recognize is the SRM. Was this a comparison of ergo devices? Anyway, rule62's post was made well after I made my decision so it didn't influence my decision one bit. What did influence my decision were the numerous posts about the Polar, PT, SRM and Ergomo available at the time I made my decision. But, hey, I'm glad you're happy with your Polar.

See my edits to the above post...I guess I was editing while you were replying 🙂

Yes...those other devices are lab ergonometers.