Polar S710 / altimeter

Dot <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Has anyone with S710 evaluated the altimeter to see if it produces reasonable numbers - either
known change in elevation or how much variation on a flat run or returning to same elevation as
starting or that it indicates "up" when going up a hill?

It's a barametric altimeter, so the the heat from your arm isn't an issue. Weather is, so if you
really want to know actual altitude vs change in altitude you need to set the base altitude before
each run or bike. I assume if a major front came through while you were running it would change
things but I haven't seen that happen.

Since I measure race courses I happen to have a lot of elevation charts around. From what I can see
the 720 does a pretty good job of measuring elevation change.

It is about twice as thick as my Polar Coach.

Keith Stone Winston Salem, NC

Keith Stone wrote:

Thanks, Keith. That's exactly what I wanted to know.

Quoted message said:

It's a barametric altimeter, so the the heat from your arm isn't an issue.

What I was thinking is that since heat decreases air pressure (aka density altitude for
flying), there might be some localized effect, but it's probably constant through a run or
minimal effect at best.

Thanks again.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Dot said:

Has anyone with S710 evaluated the altimeter to see if it produces reasonable numbers - either
known change in elevation or how much variation on a flat run or returning to same elevation as
starting or that it indicates "up" when going up a hill? I've always wondered if there's an effect
from heat of the wrist as one builds heat during a run
- resulting in higher end elevation that starting. I would expect some noise - on the order of 10
ft or so, assuming a front isn't moving through.

Since the altitude ranges from 3-4 feet (standing on the beach) to maybe 15 feet only a typical run,
I can't help much. The atmospheric changes are greater than my altitude changes. Sooo, I can't help.
The graphs are nice.
:-)

Layne

-------------------------------------------------------
The rec.running report archives may be found at kinder.cis.unf.edurec.runningOpen ↗

Hey Dot
Up here in the Ak, we have alot of change with low pressure to high
pressure. Some mornings when I wake up it reads -90ft then by noon it reads
+120.
such as the past couple of days with the high winds in the Valley.
Mark Strabel
"Layne Wallace" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dot said:

Has anyone with S710 evaluated the altimeter to see if it produces reasonable numbers - either
known change in elevation or how much variation on a flat run or returning to same elevation as
starting or that it indicates "up" when going up a hill? I've always wondered if there's an
effect from heat of the wrist as one builds heat during a run
- resulting in higher end elevation that starting. I would expect some noise - on the order of 10
ft or so, assuming a front isn't moving

through.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since the altitude ranges from 3-4 feet (standing on the beach) to maybe

15

Quoted message said:

feet only a typical run, I can't help much. The atmospheric changes are greater than my altitude
changes. Sooo, I can't help. The graphs are nice.
:-)

Layne

-------------------------------------------------------
The rec.running report archives may be found at

kinder.cis.unf.edurec.runningOpen ↗

mark strabel wrote:

Hi Mark,

Quoted message said:

Up here in the Ak, we have alot of change with low pressure to high pressure. Some mornings when I
wake up it reads -90ft then by noon it reads +120. such as the past couple of days with the high
winds in the Valley.

Yea, the winds had quieted down by the time I did my long run tonight, fortunately. I did a
short run Sunday, like a fool. I'm at the north end of town so when they say "stronger near the
river" ... 😉

You know when I was logging tonight's run, I got to thinking that I should pay more attention to the
pressure changes when it's windy. Actually if altimeter only moved about 210 ft in a few hours,
that's not too bad, but predictable given the pressure change. In colorado, our altimeter indicated
we "climbed" almost 1000 ft while sitting eating lunch as the pressure changed. Decided it was time
to retreat.

Do you find the 710 altimeter adequate for accumulating elevation change across the hills in
Crevasse Moraine - at least approximately? Or any other thoughts on how to do this? Most of the time
I run at the farm, CMT, or north end of town, and just wanted to get an idea where I stand with
respect to some other trails (Turnagain Arm, Lazy (usually repeats at base), Hatcher Pass, etc) that
have more continuous up. I'm sure CMT are mole hills for you, but I am still very challenged by them
🙂 and they're convenient.

Thanks.

I hope these winds weren't just getting warmed up for March.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Layne Wallace said:

Since the altitude ranges from 3-4 feet (standing on the beach) to maybe 15 feet only a typical
run, I can't help much. The atmospheric changes are greater than my altitude changes. Sooo, I
can't help. The graphs are nice.
:-)

Great to see you posting again 🙂 The important thing in this case is that the altimeter tracks the
barometric pressure -that is, it climbs when a low comes in or stays relatively constant during the
time of your run 😉 I've held 2 GPS's stationary side by side and watched the locations jump all
over the place. I wasn't sure if these altimeters might do the same thing or whether they're
reasonably stable. It's a much simpler principle than GPS.

As long as I've got you, though, I think you mentioned that you switched your bike data from the 710
to a "real" bike computer, but I've forgotten why. I'm not sure if these cadence, power, etc
features (I know it requires other hardware) are useful on a mt bike or not. I'm mainly thinking in
terms of the 710 for the altimeter matched with hr, and the cycling stuff is sorta baggage for the
time being.

Thanks.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since the altitude ranges from 3-4 feet (standing on the beach) to maybe 15 feet only a typical
run, I can't help much. The atmospheric changes are greater than my altitude changes. Sooo, I
can't help. The graphs are nice.
:-)

Great to see you posting again 🙂 The important thing in this case is

Thanks. It's good to be back.

Quoted message said:

that the altimeter tracks the barometric pressure -that is, it climbs when a low comes in or stays
relatively constant during the time of your run 😉 I've held 2 GPS's stationary side by side and
watched the locations jump all over the place. I wasn't sure if these altimeters might do the same
thing or whether they're reasonably stable. It's a much simpler principle than GPS.

The readings on my 710 varied quite a bit. I believe that Roger 2k had better luck with the accuracy
on his. I finally decided that I could make better use of the memory and turned off the altitude
(and temperature which was affected by my temp).

Quoted message said:

As long as I've got you, though, I think you mentioned that you switched your bike data from the
710 to a "real" bike computer, but I've forgotten why. I'm not sure if these cadence, power, etc
features (I know it requires other hardware) are useful on a mt bike or not. I'm mainly thinking in
terms of the 710 for the altimeter matched with hr, and the cycling stuff is sorta baggage for the
time being.

I'm sure that the reasons for me switching back to a "real" bike computer are personal problems on
my part. My 710 tended to drop out at odd times. I wasn't technically savvy enough to adjust the
sensors so that it didn't drop. Oddly enough, I've used wireless on other bikes with no problem at
all (other than the occasional interference problem). I did get the cadence package (I like to be
able to just look down and see my cadence instead of having to calculate it - yeah, lazy) and it
tended to drop out, too. When I got it, I was looking forward to seeing cadence matched with speed
(again, instead of calculating it) matched with HR since I tend to ride mostly flat routes. It
wasn't as much fun, for me, as I expected. I've since gone to a wired bike computer with my HRM
mounted on the handlebars and am pretty happy with the setup. (A DUH moment: I asked another rider
if his 710 display was splotchy and he asked if my sunglasses were polarized. DUH!)

I have no direct experience but I'd be surprised if cadence would help much on bike trails. The
power package might be interesting but that's a bunch of money for "interesting." Also, the memory
on the 710 (I don't know about the
720) gets used up pretty quickly with all the bells and whistles turned on. The good news is when
the memory is full, the 710 still shows the current [censored] on the display but doesn't save it (it
doesn't overwrite the earlier data).

Good luck, Layne

-------------------------------------------------------
The rec.running report archives may be found at kinder.cis.unf.edurec.runningOpen ↗

Layne Wallace said:

The readings on my 710 varied quite a bit. I believe that Roger 2k had better luck with the
accuracy on his. I finally decided that I could make better use of the memory and turned off the
altitude (and temperature which was affected by my temp).

Thanks. I'm hoping Mark will chime back in with his experiences since he's run some of the same
areas I do.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm sure that the reasons for me switching back to a "real" bike computer are personal problems on
my part. My 710 tended to drop out at odd times. I wasn't technically savvy enough to adjust the
sensors so that it didn't drop.

Actually, I think it was on the mt bike ng, that I saw some comments about the mt bike environment
(lots of bouncing, mud, etc) that these thingies may not work very well either. Heck, I still
haven't gotten around to mounting a computer on my bike. It's sitting there waiting for me to do it.

Quoted message said:

I have no direct experience but I'd be surprised if cadence would help much on bike trails. The
power package might be interesting but that's a bunch of money for "interesting."

Right - it's really the power that's more interesting, but I'm not *that* interested in it because
of the pricing. I kinda go by feel as to the best way to get up a hill - low gear / high cadence,
higher gear / grind (sitting or standing). Most of my hills are big enough (for me) that low gear
isn't really an option - I can't begin to spin that fast in some mud. And I definitely need more
experience before I stand to get more power. But sometimes on the flats it would be nice to see the
balance between gear/cadence and where the most power is for me. But some mysteries will remain
unsolved 😉

Also, the memory on the 710 (I don't know about the

Quoted message said:

720)

I tried comparing these on a web site the other day, and all I can figure out is the 720 has a steel
frame (based on comment under picture)
- the tables of features look identical as far as I can tell, but I don't think they included memory
size. I'll see if I can find out for sure, esp. since the 720 is the only one on our price list.

gets used up pretty quickly with all the bells and whistles turned on.

I'm assuming you mean the cycling features also. If I'm just running with altimeter, would that be
an issue - like how quick is "quick" to use up memory. One of the reasons I want to upgrade is to
get more memory and get away from the limitations of the 410 - dead-end software (can't export data
without Rube Goldberg setup), only 1 data set, and frequency of recording drops as the set gets
longer - about 1 min after 1 hr, iirc - because of the limited memory. This is a mild issue with
some of my drills.

Quoted message said:

The good news is when the memory is full, the 710 still shows the current [censored] on the display but
doesn't save it (it doesn't overwrite the earlier data).

Hmmm, I hope it beeps or flashes a message, esp. if you haven't downloaded stuff yet 🙁 For
curiosity, what type and length of workout were you doing when you ran out of memory (or did you
maybe have old workouts on there still that weren't needed). I'd like it to be able to hold 12+ hr
of run/walk/crawl (although 3-5 hr of hike/run is the longest foreseen for awhile), but recording hr
and altitude every 1 or 2 min or so rather than 3 sec (or whatever) is fine for that (those hills
are bigger 😉 ).

My alternate route is getting 610 and Forerunner, but I'm not at all convinced the GPS approach is
going to work for altitude on these trails. I lose signal with regular gps too much for mapping in
certain locations, and that only needs 3 satellites rather than 4.

Thanks.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

DOt most of the time the altitude of CMT is "minimal" for the altitude watches. the largest climb
there is about 100m (vertical) in height, with the majority right around 20m. For the most part now
days I use a Garmin GPS and throw it into a pocket and that actually kept pretty good track of my
altitude and my distance while running or biking. Even when running Lazy, Hatcher's or anything else
I enjoy my GPS a little bit more, because of the added knowledge of distance, speed, elevation. I
also use a Polor 610 to read my heart rate and combine it with some software that can mix both the
GPS and Heart rate info.

Mark "Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message news:uzTRb.29078$6O4.765217@bgtnsc04-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Quoted message said:

Layne Wallace said:

The readings on my 710 varied quite a bit. I believe that Roger 2k had

better

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

luck with the accuracy on his. I finally decided that I could make

better use

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of the memory and turned off the altitude (and temperature which was

affected

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

by my temp).

Thanks. I'm hoping Mark will chime back in with his experiences since he's run some of the same
areas I do.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm sure that the reasons for me switching back to a "real" bike

computer are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

personal problems on my part. My 710 tended to drop out at odd times. I wasn't technically savvy
enough to adjust the sensors so that it didn't

drop.

Quoted message said:

Actually, I think it was on the mt bike ng, that I saw some comments about the mt bike
environment (lots of bouncing, mud, etc) that these thingies may not work very well either. Heck,
I still haven't gotten around to mounting a computer on my bike. It's sitting there waiting for
me to do it.

Quoted message said:

I have no direct experience but I'd be surprised if cadence would help

much

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on bike trails. The power package might be interesting but that's a

bunch of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

money for "interesting."

Right - it's really the power that's more interesting, but I'm not *that* interested in it because
of the pricing. I kinda go by feel as to the best way to get up a hill - low gear / high cadence,
higher gear / grind (sitting or standing). Most of my hills are big enough (for me) that low gear
isn't really an option - I can't begin to spin that fast in some mud. And I definitely need more
experience before I stand to get more power. But sometimes on the flats it would be nice to see
the balance between gear/cadence and where the most power is for me. But some mysteries will
remain unsolved 😉

Also, the memory on the 710 (I don't know about the

Quoted message said:

720)

I tried comparing these on a web site the other day, and all I can figure out is the 720 has a
steel frame (based on comment under picture)
- the tables of features look identical as far as I can tell, but I don't think they included
memory size. I'll see if I can find out for sure, esp. since the 720 is the only one on our
price list.

gets used up pretty quickly with all the bells and whistles turned on.

I'm assuming you mean the cycling features also. If I'm just running with altimeter, would that be
an issue - like how quick is "quick" to use up memory. One of the reasons I want to upgrade is to
get more memory and get away from the limitations of the 410 - dead-end software (can't export
data without Rube Goldberg setup), only 1 data set, and frequency of recording drops as the set
gets longer - about 1 min after 1 hr, iirc - because of the limited memory. This is a mild issue
with some of my drills.

Quoted message said:

The good news is when the memory is full, the 710 still shows the

current

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[censored] on the display but doesn't save it (it doesn't overwrite the

earlier

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

data).

Hmmm, I hope it beeps or flashes a message, esp. if you haven't downloaded stuff yet 🙁 For
curiosity, what type and length of workout were you doing when you ran out of memory (or did you
maybe have old workouts on there still that weren't needed). I'd like it to be able to hold 12+ hr
of run/walk/crawl (although 3-5 hr of hike/run is the longest foreseen for awhile), but recording
hr and altitude every 1 or 2 min or so rather than 3 sec (or whatever) is fine for that (those
hills are bigger 😉 ).

My alternate route is getting 610 and Forerunner, but I'm not at all convinced the GPS approach is
going to work for altitude on these trails. I lose signal with regular gps too much for mapping in
certain locations, and that only needs 3 satellites rather than 4.

Thanks.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

mark strabel said:

DOt most of the time the altitude of CMT is "minimal" for the altitude watches. the largest climb
there is about 100m (vertical) in height, with the majority right around 20m.

You just made me feel better 🙂 I've been guesstimating them at 10-20m vertical and didn't think
anything was over 30m, and I think I've hit all the hills in CMT and the farm, but not Kepler
Bradley. Yea, it's that minimalistic, but very real, aspect that's had me stumped.

For the most part now days I use a Garmin GPS

Quoted message said:

and throw it into a pocket and that actually kept pretty good track of my altitude and my distance
while running or biking.

WHich model? I've used 12XL and Etrex Vista (barometric altimeter on Vista, both use patch antenna,
which I recognize isn't the best) and have lost the signal a fair amt in certain areas, esp near
start area of
CMT. Although I have gotten good traces on other days in different areas. I mount it on top my
camelbak to get the best sky visibility. The lost reception is why I was leaning toward
barometric altimeter.

Quoted message said:

Even when running Lazy, Hatcher's or anything else I enjoy my GPS a little bit more, because of
the added knowledge of distance, speed, elevation. I also use a Polor 610 to read my heart rate
and combine it with some software that can mix both the GPS and Heart rate info.

What software is this? That's been one of my frustrations with the Vista is that I haven't figured
out how to easily get a decent elevation profile out of it, let alone match my hr with it.

Thanks for your help. I'm really glad you decided to stop by about now 🙂

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

mark strabel said:

I enjoy my GPS a little bit more, because of the added knowledge of distance, speed, elevation.

What I should have asked last night: Is that because you
(1) get better elevation data with the gps compared to 710 or
(2) want the distance, speed, and elevation data?

Have you used both gps and 710 on the same run to be able to compare?

Thanks.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope