PodCast Topic: Long Slow Runs

Steve said:

I'm putting together a PodCast on the subject of Long Slow Runs for marathon
training and am hoping I can get some feedback (from anyone out there) on
how long you run your longest LSR.

Myself, I do a 16, 20 and 26.2 (I run a "training marathon" in the fall,
before my "goal" marathon at the end of October)...in the Spring my last LSR
is 22 miles before I run Boston.

I appreciate the feedback

www.SteveRunner.com

- SR

I'm doing 2 18's, 3 20's and a 23.5 before the marathon in Dec.

Teresa in AZ

Steve said:

I'm putting together a PodCast on the subject of Long Slow Runs for marathon
training and am hoping I can get some feedback (from anyone out there) on
how long you run your longest LSR.

My longest this fall and last is ~22.75, which has me on the road (and
the boardwalk, and the trail) about 5-7 minutes longer than I hope to
be on race day. Then a handful in the 18-20 range: will probably
amount to 5 this year, was a lot more last year which in retrospect was
too many, at least for a 40-45 MPW runner.

You'll talk about more than length and number of runs, though, right?
A couple other obvious concerns which come immediately to mind include:

- frequency, e.g. 20 each Sunday week in week out was too much for me
last year; alternating an 18-23 one week with ~2 hours the next seemed
better this year

- pace, like the one or two minutes slower than MP or conversational
pace rules of thumb, and ideas like folding in some fast-finish or
progression (of pace from very slow to faster than MP) long runs

Steve said:

I run a "training marathon" in the fall, before my "goal" marathon at
the end of October

Looking at your web page, I see you first did this last fall.

Your marathons are a mere two weeks apart, and in 04 you ran the "goal"
marathon 49 minutes slower than the "training" one - and in fact 45
minutes slower than the same "goal" marathon in 03. And you're
planning to run them both again this fall.

Given all that, do you really consider the first one to be useful
training for the second one? Conventional wisdom is that

[a] 42k is further than optimal as prep for a 42k, and
[b] your last truly long-ass long run ought to be at least 3 weeks out,
not 2: at 2 weeks a long run can't do much good, only interfere with
taper/recovery

Neither of these is accepted as uncontestable fact by everyone, but
they're both at least "commonly" cited. And your results - if you
really were running for your best time last year - would seem to bear
this out.

What sayest thou, Steve?

Charlie:

All good points.

I developed a tibial stress fracture after my first marathon, mostly due to
the long runs I put in...the formula that I've worked on has me doing 16,
20, and 22 (in the fall I replace this with a "training marathon"😉.

I do 12 miles in between and set out a 4 month training schedule. I also do
"mid-range" mid week long runs (up to 10 miles).

Thanks for the feedback Charlie, if it's okay I'll mention these thoughts in
my Podcast for October 2nd (I'm publishing one on "Self Healing due to
running injuries" this coming Sunday, the 25th.

Thanks again!

- S

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steve said:

I'm putting together a PodCast on the subject of Long Slow Runs for

marathon

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

training and am hoping I can get some feedback (from anyone out there)

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

how long you run your longest LSR.

My longest this fall and last is ~22.75, which has me on the road (and
the boardwalk, and the trail) about 5-7 minutes longer than I hope to
be on race day. Then a handful in the 18-20 range: will probably
amount to 5 this year, was a lot more last year which in retrospect was
too many, at least for a 40-45 MPW runner.

You'll talk about more than length and number of runs, though, right?
A couple other obvious concerns which come immediately to mind include:

- frequency, e.g. 20 each Sunday week in week out was too much for me
last year; alternating an 18-23 one week with ~2 hours the next seemed
better this year

- pace, like the one or two minutes slower than MP or conversational
pace rules of thumb, and ideas like folding in some fast-finish or
progression (of pace from very slow to faster than MP) long runs

Charlie:

Yeah. I run the Bay State Marathon in Lowell MA, which is a very VERY flat
race...(double loop course) and a few weeks later I'm running the Cape Cod
Marathon...a very hilly single loop course around Falmouth, MA.

My problem last year was that I didn't run Bay State at a slow pace: I saw
my time at the half and knew I was well on my way to a PR...so I pushed
myself way past the point of a "long slow run" and finished in, what for me,
was a record time.

Of course this led to a sprained calf muscle, and two weeks later I was
committed to running CCM with a friend who had flown up from Philly...and,
although I did finish CCM (The first half was run with leg cramps...which
ironed themselves out at mile 13) I didn't do as well as I might otherwise
have.

Excuses aside: your points are logical and valid: I wasn't prepared for a
26.2 miler two weeks before a 26.2 mile race.

This year I'm doing the same thing (running both marathons) but I'd like to
try running Bay State at a significantly lower pace.

I sayest that you raise excellent points that I would be well to appreciate.

Thanks Charlie.

- S

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
[quote="Quoted message"]

Steve said:

I run a "training marathon" in the fall, before my "goal" marathon at
the end of October

"Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I'm putting together a PodCast on the subject of Long Slow Runs for
marathon
training and am hoping I can get some feedback (from anyone out there) on
how long you run your longest LSR.

Well, there's several issues here, such as:

How many miles/week you run.
How often long, and when is the last one done.
And finally, how slow is slow?

I run 70+ mpw, and have for years.

I run a mountainous 18 to 20 miler every Saturday.
I occasionally run longer races of 31 to 50 miles.

Pace on long runs varies greatly with terrain, but my heartrate is usually
135'ish, which corresponds with about an 8:20 pace on the flat, about 1:30
off my goal pace.

My last 18 miler (two weeks out from my marathon) was done at 142 pulse,
which corresponds to about 7:50/mile on the flat.

I make sure I'm fully recovered and feeling strong by Tuesday.

I run my last long run 2 weeks out. One week out, I run a medium-strong 14
miler.

-- Dan

Quoted message said:

Myself, I do a 16, 20 and 26.2 (I run a "training marathon" in the fall,
before my "goal" marathon at the end of October)...in the Spring my last
LSR
is 22 miles before I run Boston.

I appreciate the feedback

www.SteveRunner.com

- SR

Dan Stumpus said:

How many miles/week you run.
How often long, and when is the last one done.
And finally, how slow is slow?

I run 70+ mpw, and have for years.

I run a mountainous 18 to 20 miler every Saturday.
I occasionally run longer races of 31 to 50 miles.

Pace on long runs varies greatly with terrain, but my heartrate is usually
135'ish, which corresponds with about an 8:20 pace on the flat, about 1:30
off my goal pace.

My last 18 miler (two weeks out from my marathon) was done at 142 pulse,
which corresponds to about 7:50/mile on the flat.

I make sure I'm fully recovered and feeling strong by Tuesday.

I run my last long run 2 weeks out. One week out, I run a medium-strong 14
miler.

-- Dan

And for fun he leaps tall buildings, and stops speeding locomotives.
TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

"The Bill Rodgers" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

And for fun he leaps tall buildings, and stops speeding locomotives.

Tall buildings only on hard days. I try to stop one speeding locomotive two
weeks before my target race.

Dan Stumpus said:

Tall buildings only on hard days. I try to stop one speeding locomotive two
weeks before my target race.

LOL