Plotting a walk into a GPS

Daryl said:

I'm planning to buy a GPS very shortly and wondered how easy it is to plot a walk into the machine
(the Garmin Geko 201 is the one I'll probably buy).

It can be easy or hard.

Quoted message said:

I have a few OS maps and some Pathfinder walk books. How easy is it to enter waymarks using Grid
References. I understand that PDFs use longitude and latitude. Will I have to do my own conversions
or is it that going to make the waymark points inaccurate?

With a GPS receiver you can enter waypoints or routes using various position formats. OS grid refs
will be the most relevant, but you can also enter as latitude and longitude.

To enter a number of waypoints directly to the receiver is a bit bit like sending a text message
with a mobile phone - ie it can be a pain if you have to do it a lot. Alternatively, there are
various utilities which will interface your PC with the receiver and you can type in the grid refs
etc much more quickly. Some are free, and none cost a lot. Perhaps the best (but most expensive)
option is to use something like Memory Map, Anquet, Fugawi or Oziexplorer map software. These let
you enter waypoints and routes just by clicking on the map.

With the latter 2 options you will, of course, need a proprietary interface cable!

"Daryl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I'm planning to buy a GPS very shortly and wondered how easy it is to plot

a

Quoted message said:

walk into the machine (the Garmin Geko 201 is the one I'll probably buy).

I have a few OS maps and some Pathfinder walk books. How easy is it to enter waymarks using Grid
References. I understand that PDFs use

longitude

Quoted message said:

and latitude. Will I have to do my own conversions or is it that going to make the waymark points
inaccurate?

Any thoughts gladly received,

Thanks,

Daz

Daz, I started without any software, just a Garmin Summit. In short it is a pain in the backside
entering waypoints manually. I ended up trying out a variety of software packages including Memory
Map, Anquet and GPS utility (GPSU). I settled on a combination of the first two and it's really
quite simple to input waypoints / routes via these methods. I didn't go for GPSU in the end as I had
to manually scan my own maps in which was just too much hassle, although I still have the program if
I wish to use it instead of shelling out approx £40 for a disk of an area I don't intend to do much
walking in. Trust me, once you've entered, say 10 waypoints manually, you'll see what I mean! If you
look through this ng via Google you'll find a lot of comments, advice and suggestions regarding both
choice of software and choice of GPS.

KRO

In message <[email hidden]>, Michael Chare
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Michael Chare said:

Whilst it is clearly possible to program waypoints into a GPS and then try and walk from one to
another, I would suggest that just using a GPS such as a Geko 201 to check your position and
perhaps record your track (with time stamps) whilst relying on an OS map for your main
navigation is a more practical proposition.

You can suggest it, but I'll dispute it. :-)

So where do you walk? Normally I dont see many other walkers with GPSs, Let alone anyone apparently
tryinhg to follow one. Though this year whilst walking in Snowdonia I did meet someone with any
amazingly detailed plan of where he intended to go (estimated time and height of each peak etc.)
Only trouble was he had rather a good evening the night before and set out late! I dont think he
had a GPS.

Try joining a urw expedition. More cameras and GPSs than you can shake a stick at.

--
Martin Richardson
216/284 Munros (34/34 'Furths'😉
217/89 Donalds 390/1552 Marilyns 439/439 Nuttalls

There is a trial version of Oziexplorer available which is very good. Try this and see how you go.
The biggest problem you may have is getting map data to use with Oziexplorer. (I'm assuming you are
UK based and wish to walk in the UK). There are various cd solutions which are mentioned in the
previous post but they are relatively expensive. Other solutions are (some with a degree of
illegality), scanning maps (and stitching sections together) or using online maps and again
stitching.

No matter what to make life easy in terms of getting data like waypoints and routes into a gps you
need an application and some sort of map data.

Oziexplorer can be found at

www.oziexplorer.com

Also have a look at gpsu at

www.gpsu.co.uk

There are more of these types of applications around some good, some not so good but the two I have
mentioned I use.

There is one proviso though both of the applications do far more than you say you want to do. For
instance once I have returned from a walk I download the data (track) from my gps and using
oziexplorer and the data can get a view on a map where I have been.

Be aware that the screens on gps are small and lack any real detail as far as mountain areas go.
Note you cannot, for instance, load a scanned image into your gps, the scanned image is resident on
a pc and all the 'playing about' with the initial data and the resultant data is done on the pc.

You will of course need a cable to connect between your gps and pc to allow exchange of information.
If I remember correctly when I got my Vista it came with such a lead.

Not sure however if the gecko is really like a vista. Just been onto Garmin's web site and what it
does seems quite different from what my vista does. Perhaps there are more knowledgeable people
around in the newsgroup who can help. It may help us all if you could give us an idea of what you
might use your gps for. Anyway happy days are ahead for you.

Mike Mason

Just "Chris" <proteus1@gmxDOTnet> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Daryl said:

I'm planning to buy a GPS very shortly and wondered how easy it is to

plot a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

walk into the machine (the Garmin Geko 201 is the one I'll probably buy).

It can be easy or hard.

Quoted message said:

I have a few OS maps and some Pathfinder walk books. How easy is it to enter waymarks using Grid
References. I understand that PDFs use

longitude

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and latitude. Will I have to do my own conversions or is it that going

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

make the waymark points inaccurate?

With a GPS receiver you can enter waypoints or routes using various position formats. OS grid refs
will be the most relevant, but you can also enter as latitude and longitude.

To enter a number of waypoints directly to the receiver is a bit bit like sending a text message
with a mobile phone - ie it can be a pain if you have to do it a lot. Alternatively, there are
various utilities which will interface your PC with the receiver and you can type in the grid refs
etc much more quickly. Some are free, and none cost a lot. Perhaps the best (but most expensive)
option is to use something like Memory Map, Anquet, Fugawi or Oziexplorer map software. These let
you enter waypoints and routes just by clicking on the map.

With the latter 2 options you will, of course, need a proprietary interface cable!

"Chris" <proteus1@gmxDOTnet> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Daryl said:

I'm planning to buy a GPS very shortly and wondered how easy it is to plot a walk into the
machine (the Garmin Geko 201 is the one I'll probably buy).

It can be easy or hard.

Quoted message said:

I have a few OS maps and some Pathfinder walk books. How easy is it to enter waymarks using Grid
References. I understand that PDFs use longitude and latitude. Will I have to do my own
conversions or is it that going to make the waymark points inaccurate?

With a GPS receiver you can enter waypoints or routes using various position formats. OS grid refs
will be the most relevant, but you can also enter as latitude and longitude.

To enter a number of waypoints directly to the receiver is a bit bit like sending a text message
with a mobile phone - ie it can be a pain if you have to do it a lot. Alternatively, there are
various utilities which will interface your PC with the receiver and you can type in the grid refs
etc much more quickly. Some are free, and none cost a lot. Perhaps the best (but most expensive)
option is to use something like Memory Map, Anquet, Fugawi or Oziexplorer map software. These let
you enter waypoints and routes just by clicking on the map.

Some of the cheaper utilities are GARtrip, GPS Trackmaker, G7toWin and GPS Utility,

To convert Grid References to WGS84 Lat Long see
gps.gov.ukgpsSpreadsheet.aspOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

With the latter 2 options you will, of course, need a proprietary interface cable!

You can purchase cheaper non Garmin cables from gpsw.co.ukgpsw.co.ukOpen ↗

Whilst it is clearly possible to program waypoints into a GPS and then try and walk from one to
another, I would suggest that just using a GPS such as a Geko 201 to check your position and perhaps
record your track (with time stamps) whilst relying on an OS map for your main navigation is a more
practical proposition.

Michael Chare

"KRO" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Daryl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I'm planning to buy a GPS very shortly and wondered how easy it is to

plot

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

walk into the machine (the Garmin Geko 201 is the one I'll probably

buy).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have a few OS maps and some Pathfinder walk books. How easy is it to enter waymarks using Grid
References. I understand that PDFs use

longitude

Quoted message said:

and latitude. Will I have to do my own conversions or is it that going

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

make the waymark points inaccurate?

Any thoughts gladly received,

Thanks,

Daz

Daz, I started without any software, just a Garmin Summit. In short it is a

pain

Quoted message said:

in the backside entering waypoints manually. I ended up trying out a variety

of

Quoted message said:

software packages including Memory Map, Anquet and GPS utility (GPSU). I settled on a combination
of the first two and it's really quite simple

to

Quoted message said:

input waypoints / routes via these methods. I didn't go for GPSU in the end as I had to manually
scan my own maps in which was just too much hassle,

although

Quoted message said:

I still have the program if I wish to use it instead of shelling out

approx

Quoted message said:

£40 for a disk of an area I don't intend to do much walking in. Trust me, once you've entered, say
10 waypoints manually, you'll see what I mean! If you look through this ng via Google you'll find
a lot of comments, advice and suggestions regarding both choice of software and choice of

GPS.

Quoted message said:

KRO

All the comments in this thread seems to miss the blindingly obvious. Buy beg or borrow yourself a
Garmin Mapsource Metroguide for the area you prefer. Get yourself a cable (Lynks Cables U.K. 3
Avondale Drive, Paisley PA1 3TT will do the job admirably at half the price of your posh walking
shops) and get walking! P.S. We use a humble E-TREX and although the Americans continue to randomly
distort GPS data to confuse the forces of evil the only difficulty we have faced is the O.S.My
gorgeous border collie, Ike, is giving me (and the door) his glad eye now. Cheers!

Mike Mason said:

There is a trial version of Oziexplorer available which is very good. Try this and see how you go.
The biggest problem you may have is getting map data to use with Oziexplorer. (I'm assuming you are
UK based and wish to walk in the UK). There are various cd solutions which are mentioned in the
previous post but they are relatively expensive. Other solutions are (some with a degree of
illegality), scanning maps (and stitching sections together) or using online maps and again
stitching.

Quoted message said:

No matter what to make life easy in terms of getting data like waypoints and routes into a gps you
need an application and some sort of map data.

Quoted message said:

Oziexplorer can be found at

Quoted message said:

www.oziexplorer.com

Quoted message said:

Also have a look at gpsu at

Quoted message said:

www.gpsu.co.uk

Quoted message said:

There are more of these types of applications around some good, some not so good but the two I have
mentioned I use.

You can easily get the flavour of relating maps to GPS by using www.streetmap.co.uk. You can type in
a post code and it will give a small map centred on that location with an arrow pointing to it.
Click on the point of the arrow and it will display the OS grid co-ordinates of that point, but in
purely numeric format. Convert to GPS OS grid reference format by dropping the first digit of each
co-ordinate, and prefacing the two numbers with the two letter region code. (If you're not far away
it's probably the one you're now in, displayed by your GPS as the co-ords of where you now are).

The blue grid squares on the "streetmaps" are the 1km grid squares of the OS UK grid, so zero the
last three digits of your Easting (X) and Northing (Y) map reference to get the co-ords of the
bottom left hand square your destination is in. You can then add and subtract kms to label the other
blue lines, and now you have a map labelled in such a way that you can place yourself on it by
looking at the display of current OS UK grid co-ords on your GPS.

Enter waypoint manually into GPS, print map, and head off. Note the "large map" option which gives
you a biger map if you want it.

In cities streetmap gives you an A-Z type street map. In the country you get an OS
topographical map.

Once you're used to cross-referring between map and GPS most of the above steps can be omitted.

So suppose you want to find a certain shop, and don't know the area. Find the post code, e.g. from
bt/co.uk's directory enquiries, use streetmap to get co-ords for GPS and a printed map. Enter co-
ords as GPS waypoint and "GOTO" it (sets up destination pointer in GPS).

Useful city bus travel tip if you have an all-day ticket: get on any bus going in the right
direction. Sit in top front for best GPS skyview. Get off it when the GPS destination pointer
swivels past 90 degrees and get on another going in the right direction. Repeat until distance to
destination displayed is walkable. (Some buses have plastic roofs which are GPS signal permeable.)

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Michael Chare said:

Whilst it is clearly possible to program waypoints into a GPS and then try and walk from one to
another, I would suggest that just using a GPS such as a Geko 201 to check your position and
perhaps record your track (with time stamps) whilst relying on an OS map for your main navigation
is a more practical proposition.

You can suggest it, but I'll dispute it. :-)

Paul
--
The October Project 2003 - Updated
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukoctober.htmlOpen ↗
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

Chris Malcolm said:

Useful city bus travel tip if you have an all-day ticket: get on any bus going in the right
direction. Sit in top front for best GPS skyview. Get off it when the GPS destination pointer
swivels past 90 degrees and get on another going in the right direction. Repeat until distance to
destination displayed is walkable. (Some buses have plastic roofs which are GPS signal permeable.)

LOL! Handy if you've got a free bus pass and lots of spare time I suppose...

--
=============================================

Chris Game <chrisgame@!yahoo!dotcodotuk>
=============================================

Paul Saunders said:

Michael Chare wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Whilst it is clearly possible to program waypoints into a GPS and then try and walk from one to
another, I would suggest that just using a GPS such as a Geko 201 to check your position and
perhaps record your track (with time stamps) whilst relying on an OS map for your main navigation
is a more practical proposition.

Quoted message said:

You can suggest it, but I'll dispute it. :-)

I'd dispute it too. For most walks or journeys I now find the most convenient method to be extra
time studying the map and entering a collection of useful waypoints, landmarks as well as useful
destinations. That puts enough detail in the combination of non-mapping GPSR and my memory that I
rarely bother to unpack the map during the journey except out of curiosity at times of leisure. I
find it far more practical to rely purely on the GPSR, i.e., on the handful of local waypoints and
the general sense of the terrain acquired from previous study of the map at route planning stage.

Of course I do carry a paper map in case my GPSR is struck by lightning.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Michael Chare said:

Whilst it is clearly possible to program waypoints into a GPS and then try and walk from one to
another, I would suggest that just using a GPS such as a Geko 201 to check your position and
perhaps record your track (with time stamps) whilst relying on an OS map for your main
navigation is a more practical proposition.

You can suggest it, but I'll dispute it. :-)

So where do you walk? Normally I dont see many other walkers with GPSs, Let alone anyone apparently
tryinhg to follow one. Though this year whilst walking in Snowdonia I did meet someone with any
amazingly detailed plan of where he intended to go (estimated time and height of each peak etc.)
Only trouble was he had rather a good evening the night before and set out late! I dont think he
had a GPS.

Michael Chare

Chris Game said:

Chris Malcolm said:

Useful city bus travel tip if you have an all-day ticket: get on any bus going in the right
direction. Sit in top front for best GPS skyview. Get off it when the GPS destination pointer
swivels past 90 degrees and get on another going in the right direction. Repeat until distance to
destination displayed is walkable. (Some buses have plastic roofs which are GPS signal
permeable.)

LOL! Handy if you've got a free bus pass and lots of spare time I suppose...

£2 will let you ride any London Bus all day. One of Ken's less well known transport schemes.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

"Michael Chare" <[email hidden]> wrote: <snipped>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I would suggest that just using a GPS such as a Geko 201 to check your position and perhaps
record your track (with time stamps) whilst relying on an OS map for your main navigation is a
more practical proposition.

You can suggest it, but I'll dispute it. :-)

So where do you walk? Normally I dont see many other walkers with GPSs

This is quite probably because many of the minority of walkers with GPS receivers don't
actually know how to use them! Using a GPS is a very effective way of navigating, and whilst it
doesn't remove the need to carry a map and compass, very often a well-plotted route in the GPS
is all you need.

Phil Cook said:

Quoted message said:

LOL! Handy if you've got a free bus pass and lots of spare time I=20 suppose...

=20
=A32 will let you ride any London Bus all day. One of Ken's less=20 well known transport schemes.

=20
That's good to know. Do the buses get up to Cumbria?

--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Chris Game <chrisgame@!yahoo!dotcodotuk>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Phil Cook said:

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 15:40:33 -0000, Chris Game wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Chris Malcolm said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Useful city bus travel tip if you have an all-day ticket: get on any bus going in the right
direction. Sit in top front for best GPS skyview. Get off it when the GPS destination pointer
swivels past 90 degrees and get on another going in the right direction. Repeat until distance
to destination displayed is walkable. (Some buses have plastic roofs which are GPS signal
permeable.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

LOL! Handy if you've got a free bus pass and lots of spare time I suppose...

Quoted message said:

#2 will let you ride any London Bus all day. One of Ken's less well known
transport schemes.

Not just London. It's not unusual in large cities to have the options of bus season tickets, or
individual day tickets, which place no limit on the number of buses you can use in a day for the
price. For example, in Edinburgh the cost for a one-day ticket is #1.80, and the cost for a season
ticket drops to less than #1 a day if you use it every day.

Of course it is true that urban bus journeys are slowed down relative to the car by the number of
cars driving around looking for parking places, but they're *so* much cheaper than employing a
chauffeur. Having to drive yourself all the way is such a boring waste of time, although for
those who can't afford a chauffeur it may be the only way of justifying the expense of having
bought a car.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

In a recent message <[email hidden]>, Daryl
<[email hidden]> wrote.

[...]

Quoted message said:

On more question... the 201 manual mentions that wayponts can (must?) also have altitude selected
as well as coordinates. Are these optional as that is a bit more difficult (though of course not
impossible) to work out from maps? My understanding is that altitude is necessary if only 3
satellites are located but isn't essenital with 4 or more satellites.

[...]

Not quite with you here <g> but in practice I find the most convenient way to enter waypoints is by
clicking on a scanned, calibrated map to set the points, which you can then upload to the 201. These
waypoints won't carry altitude data, of course [1]. If I remember rightly, your GPS needs three
satellites to calculate a horizontal position and four or more to calculate a height.

Note 1. Did I read somewhere that the digital OS maps that you can buy *do* carry altitude data?
Hum, given the sort of walking I do, the last thing I'd want to see is that the next waypoint is 50-
metres in front of me and 250-metres above my head. 28 km along the Wansdyke path last Friday was
about my limit.

Regards, Nick.

--
Nick Hopton and Anne Hopton Caversham, Reading, England <[email hidden]

Colin Castledine said:

We use a humble E-TREX and although the Americans continue to randomly distort GPS data to confuse
the forces of evil the only difficulty we have faced is the O.S.

The US stopped distorting civilian GPS data some years ago, have promised never to do it again, and
seem to have kept their promise. They now have better ways of confusing the forces of evil.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Colin Castledine said:

All the comments in this thread seems to miss the blindingly obvious. Buy beg or borrow yourself a
Garmin Mapsource Metroguide for the area you prefer.

What good is that? Only useful if you want to walk along roads.

Quoted message said:

although the Americans continue to randomly distort GPS data

No they don't, they stopped doing that years ago. Maybe you're confusing that with errors in amongst
buildings.

Paul
--
The October Project 2003 - Updated
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukoctober.htmlOpen ↗
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Whilst it is clearly possible to program waypoints into a GPS and then try

and

Quoted message said:

walk from one to another, I would suggest that just using a GPS such as a

Geko

Quoted message said:

201 to check your position and perhaps record your track (with time

stamps)

Quoted message said:

whilst relying on an OS map for your main navigation is a more practical proposition.

Michael Chare

Thank you all for the replies. I never expected this message to initiate such heated discussion!

I've been playing around with 'GPS Trackmaker' and that seems to provide all the functionality I'll
need to plot courses before walks. I've even managed to scan in a few maps (and stitch them
together) of my local area to play around with routes and waypoints.

I've also downloaded EasyGPS, although this seems to lack the use of the OS GB grid system.

Since my initial message I discovered that the Geko 201 supports the OS GB system to my relief. It
doesn't state this in the manual I downloaded but thankfully I found more info on the net.

Michael, I definitely want to use the unit to plot waypoints into in advance. Of course I'm not
planning to keep my eye on the unit throughout a walk but I'd rather be kept on course than have to
consult the GPS when already lost! :o)

I might even try it out as a car passenger, pre programmed with junction information etc.

On more question... the 201 manual mentions that wayponts can (must?) also have altitude selected as
well as coordinates. Are these optional as that is a bit more difficult (though of course not
impossible) to work out from maps? My understanding is that altitude is necessary if only 3
satellites are located but isn't essenital with 4 or more satellites.

Thanks,

Daz

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (grisoft.comgrisoft.comOpen ↗).
Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release Date: 27/11/2003