please support this new cycling website

In "]news:[email hidden], Cadfael <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Just doing my bit for the world of cycling. I got this link from a small TV advert:

scottishcycling.orgscottishcycling.orgOpen ↗

Isn't that David Marsh's (a uk.rec.cycling regular) organisation? (The one where he works, that is)

[Interleaved quoting: please read to end for all comments]

Ambrose Nankivell wrote in uk.rec.cycling: about: Re: please support this new cycling website

Quoted message said:

In "]news:[email hidden], Cadfael <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Just doing my bit for the world of cycling. I got this link from a small TV advert:

A TV advert? Interesting.. I had enough problems getting management to spend any money on *any*
promotional materials, hence putting a lot of work into the website, it was the only 'no-cost'
publicity outlet I had..

Obviously now that they actually have somebody with clue in a management position in the shape of
Ian Maxwell, perhaps they're able to organise themselves to do the job properly rather than flog
their staff to death and allow them no input into the direction of the organisation while ignoring
their concerns - or ideas.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

scottishcycling.orgscottishcycling.orgOpen ↗

Isn't that David Marsh's (a uk.rec.cycling regular) organisation? (The one where he works,
that is)

Once upon a time it was, yes. :-(

Trust me, if I was still working for them, you would have heard any news about the SCDP from me,
assuming I wasn't being worked into the ground so much as to not allow me time to fire out a news
release (and I certainly wouldn't have done anything as moronic as changing domain names (especially
for no good reason) after the work I put in building up inbound links to my original SCDP website:
cool URIs don't change)). Incidentally, most of the content on that website is either still a copy
of my original work, or heavily based on it (except my HTML/CSS was valid and my downloads not
Windoze-centric) which somebody else is obviously now getting the credit for.

They treated us like [censored] and both of us finally resigned last summer as the majority of our five
bosses found ways to constantly pick trivial holes in _everything_ we did (even/especially when we
were firefighting around their non-leadership (or sudden holiday trips without even telling us), as
we often had to), just kept throwing work at us regardless of resource availability (ie, nowt but
two people working independently with no backup in case of illness or holiday), rarely actually
liaised with staff or engaged in actual management and did not even remotely acknowledge or show any
gratitude for the incredible amount of unpaid/unTOILed overtime we were forced to put in order to
save the organisation from such, well, disorganisation. (It's all rather soured my opinion of
'voluntary sector' work, where you don't expect to be so abused by your bosses, and has used up
virtually all of my goodwill for mankind, sadly)

I finally had to quit after suffering near-total physical and mental exhaustion after having to
attend evening meetings until 11pm on a very frequent basis, often having to work partial weekends
with no time off ever offered and having no spare time/capacity to take any holiday in 6 months with
event dates looming and *nobody* to share the mounting workload with. And being made to feel
inadequate when 'daring' to ask for TOIL after working non-stop physically intense shifts 7am-7pm
Sundays for said events, Scotland's biggest cycling events, after sacrificing my whole weekend,
weeks of stress firefighting while having extra work continually dumped on me at fully-scheduled
times, despite my protests that this was not possible, didn't help my morale (or the scheduling of
the fundraising/logistics for these events) either.

[And I'm currently still unable to work as doctors now try to sort out what they regard as
extremely high blood pressure which they reckon has developed over the last 12 - 18 months, not
uncoincidental I'm sure]

If any of you went to Glasgow Cyclefest or Pedal for Scotland in previous years, I do hope you
enjoyed them. Glasgow Cyclefest is alleged to be happening again this year, but after managing to
progressively [censored] every volunteer (and myself) previously involved in the event by throwing
obstacles in the way of managing an event of that magnitude (including extreme
laissez-faire/stealing time from event organisation followed by sticking-nose-in-at-last-minute by
which time it is too late to recover from such management-induced problems) it will be 'interesting'
to see if they can pull off an event even vaguely approaching that size (1000 participants, over 25
cycling events including cycle racing) effectively from scratch.. And there's been zero publicity
for it, either.

Funnily enough, nobody in the cycling community has heard a peep from the replacement staff members,
or the organisation as a whole, since then.. Goodness knows what they're up to now. At least I tried
to keep the public as informed as I could with the insane pressures on my time (when not fighting
CTC HQ to publicise our work, after my boss's broken promises to liaise with them: "Why didn't you
let me know the copy dates?" "We only promote CTC activities" "Yes, you part-fund us, we're your
'doing things' arm in Scotland" "But you're not CTC" <thud, thud, thud>😉

Honestly, I thought Dilbert was a work of fiction until I went through that nightmare.

--
David Marsh, <reply-to-email is valid at time of writing> | Glasgow, Scotland. [en, fr, (de)] |
web.viewport.co.ukweb.viewport.co.ukOpen ↗ | Learn usenet and netiquette: read news:news.announce.newusers |

Quoted message said:

I scorefile posters who don't quote in traditional interleaved style.<

begin Once upon a time, there was a badly-broken newsreader program...

In "]news:[email hidden], David Marsh
<[email hidden]> typed: <snip>

Quoted message said:

Honestly, I thought Dilbert was a work of fiction until I went through that nightmare.

Oh dear. I'm sorry to hear about it.

My Mum got eaten up and spat out in a non-profit while I was growing up, so it wasn't too surprising
a story, sad though it is.

I turned into Wally about 5 months into my previous job. Not uncoincidentally that was shortly after
the User Interface guru who (e.g.) insisted email was spelt eMail joined (it was a programming job
on a highly email-centric product).

Hope you don't have too many bad associations with bikes to enjoy a ride.

Ambrose

David Marsh said:

Honestly, I thought Dilbert was a work of fiction until I went through that nightmare.

Another victom of drive-by management? My sympathies. I've always known that Dilbert is a
documentary, mind...

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ (BT ADSL and
dynamic DNS permitting)
NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
work. Apologies.

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In "]news:[email hidden], Cadfael <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Just doing my bit for the world of cycling. I got this link from a small TV advert:

scottishcycling.orgscottishcycling.orgOpen ↗

Isn't that David Marsh's (a uk.rec.cycling regular) organisation? (The one where he works,
that is)

I don't know! But anything that encourages people to get out of their stinking cars and onto
bicycles can't be a bad thing.

[Interleaved quoting: please read to end for all comments] Cadfael wrote in uk.rec.cycling: about:
Re: please support this new cycling website

Quoted message said:

I don't know! But anything that encourages people to get out of their stinking cars and onto
bicycles can't be a bad thing.

Except that, despite my building up a quite informative website, doing a *lot* of work on travel
plans/Cycle-Friendly Employer award schemes, starting to build up a cycle training scheme and
network of trainers, and providing information on cycle routes, what was I made to focus the vast
majority of my time (and then some ludicrous overtime) on?

Organising "fun" (but ultimately 'pointless'😉 events for _existing cyclists_ that only ever preached
to the already converted. Yes, an important part of the promotional picture, but actual contribution
to getting any new people out of cars, compared to the above other projects: absolutely nil.

(Heck, one of the few Cycle-Friendly Employer candidates that I was actually given time to seek out
or progress had to wait almost *nine months* for my bosses to get their act together to approve the
result of the assessment, after my site visit to assess their provision for cyclists. As you can
imagine, the candidate organisation was getting quite [censored] by that stage..)

I hope that with a new person on the management team the project now actually starts to work more on
the actual genuine development of cycling and encouraging new cyclists..

--
David Marsh, <reply-to-email is valid at time of writing> | Glasgow, Scotland. [en, fr, (de)] |
web.viewport.co.ukweb.viewport.co.ukOpen ↗ | Learn usenet and netiquette: read news:news.announce.newusers |

Quoted message said:

I scorefile posters who don't quote in traditional interleaved style.<

begin Once upon a time, there was a badly-broken newsreader program...

[Interleaved quoting: please read to end for all comments] Ambrose Nankivell wrote in
uk.rec.cycling: about: Re: please support this new cycling website

Quoted message said:

In "]news:[email hidden], David Marsh
<[email hidden]> typed: <snip>

Quoted message said:

Honestly, I thought Dilbert was a work of fiction until I went through that nightmare.

Oh dear. I'm sorry to hear about it.

My Mum got eaten up and spat out in a non-profit while I was growing up, so it wasn't too
surprising a story, sad though it is.

Many thanks for the sympathy... Unfortunately, I think I'm going to become an evil uncaring
capitalist money-grabbing [censored] from now on (although that kind of disagrees with most of my
principles), so I'll need to see how I resolve that one.

I _do_ need to get out of the debt incurred after becoming completely burnt-out, though, and then
work out where to go from there..

Quoted message said:

I turned into Wally about 5 months into my previous job. Not

Hmm.. I'm not sure if there's anybody in that office I'd want to be!

Quoted message said:

uncoincidentally that was shortly after the User Interface guru who (e.g.) insisted email was
spelt eMail joined (it was a programming job on a highly email-centric product).

<chortle> Honestly, apparently Scott Adams does base plot ideas on emails such as these!

"No, it's email, you fool.." /s/eMail/email/ <clicketty-click> etc, etc..

Quoted message said:

Hope you don't have too many bad associations with bikes to enjoy a ride.

Heck, I love bikes, always have. Unfortunately, the damn blood pressure pills and general lack of
energy/motivation are making me too damn knackered to do much of it at present. Also getting hassles
from housing benefit folks (not amusing since I'm officially 'ill'😉 which is meaning I'm having to
(literally) count the pennies. And I've just spotted I need new brake blocks and cables...

Well, I'm taking a move over east for a change of scene (a friend is putting me up until I find a
job/new flat) so here's hoping I get back on the bike properly soon..

--
David Marsh, <reply-to-email is valid at time of writing> | Glasgow, Scotland. [en, fr, (de)] |
web.viewport.co.ukweb.viewport.co.ukOpen ↗ | Learn usenet and netiquette: read news:news.announce.newusers |

Quoted message said:

I scorefile posters who don't quote in traditional interleaved style.<

begin Once upon a time, there was a badly-broken newsreader program...

[Interleaved quoting: please read to end for all comments] Just zis Guy, you know? wrote in
uk.rec.cycling: about: Re: please support this new cycling website

Quoted message said:

David Marsh said:

Honestly, I thought Dilbert was a work of fiction until I went through that nightmare.

Another victom of drive-by management? My sympathies. I've always known that Dilbert is a
documentary, mind...

Heh! "Drive-by management"! I *love* it! (Actually, I *really* *really* *really* *[censored]* #hated#
it, but, sadly, that's a far-too accurate description of what it felt like.. I ain't falling for
that _ever_ again)

--
David Marsh, <reply-to-email is valid at time of writing> | Glasgow, Scotland. [en, fr, (de)] |
web.viewport.co.ukweb.viewport.co.ukOpen ↗ | Learn usenet and netiquette: read news:news.announce.newusers |

Quoted message said:

I scorefile posters who don't quote in traditional interleaved style.<

begin Once upon a time, there was a badly-broken newsreader program...

David Marsh said:

Quoted message said:

I scorefile posters who don't quote in traditional interleaved style.<

I wonder why you have such a problem with people who use MS products .. It appears to me, though no
doubt you're not really interested in my opinion, that you're possibly alienating a lot of the
people, possible newcomers to both cycling and computers, who may be interested in what cycleway is
doing or is trying to do.

Just a thought .. 😉

--

Completed 1708 Seti work units in 12974 hours setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edusetiathome.ssl.berkeley.eduOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I scorefile posters who don't quote in traditional interleaved style.<

I wonder why you have such a problem with people who use MS products ..

Why, do MS products make it impossible to quote sensibly? Why not use something else if that's the
case? There's no shortage of free or reasonably priced news reading programs out there.

-dan

--

cliki.netcliki.netOpen ↗ - Link farm for free CL-on-Unix resources

David Marsh wrote:

:>> I scorefile posters who don't quote in traditional interleaved style.<

: I wonder why you have such a problem with people who use MS products ..

Really? Does MS software ensure that you can't quote in the normal manner? It didn't last
time I looked.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ Power is delightful. Absolute power is absolutely delightful -
Lord Lester

Arthur Clune said:

Really? Does MS software ensure that you can't quote in the normal manner? It didn't last time
I looked.

Most Microsith stuff encourages top-posting like a Cretinous Foul-Yob fit only for Stoning. This
does not, of course, prevent one from rearranging things manually, but the Pathologically Idle
frequently tend not to bother. home.in.tum.de~jainOpen ↗ provides a Thing called Quotefix, for
Outlook and Outlook Express, which encourages decent behaviour.

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

Arthur Clune said:

Quoted message said:

David Marsh wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I scorefile posters who don't quote in traditional interleaved style.<

Quoted message said:

I wonder why you have such a problem with people who use MS products ..

Really? Does MS software ensure that you can't quote in the normal manner? It didn't last time
I looked.

Arthur

I use MS software and quote normally .. But then I also use Usenet quite a bit .. 😉

I was actually referring to the chaps website, which was unworkable using MS IE, but works fine with
Opera and others .. 😉

--

Completed 1708 Seti work units in 12974 hours setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edusetiathome.ssl.berkeley.eduOpen ↗

Daniel Barlow said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I scorefile posters who don't quote in traditional interleaved style.<

I wonder why you have such a problem with people who use MS products ..

Why, do MS products make it impossible to quote sensibly? Why not use something else if that's the
case? There's no shortage of free or reasonably priced news reading programs out there.

Was there a problem with how I snipped and quoted ?

I was actually referring to the chaps website, which was unworkable using MS IE, but works fine with
Opera and other browsers .. 😉

--

Completed 1708 Seti work units in 12974 hours setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edusetiathome.ssl.berkeley.eduOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Arthur Clune wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

David Marsh wrote:

Quoted message said:

>> I scorefile posters who don't quote in traditional interleaved style.<

Quoted message said:

I wonder why you have such a problem with people who use MS products ..

Really? Does MS software ensure that you can't quote in the normal manner? It didn't last time I
looked.

Arthur

I use MS software and quote normally .. But then I also use Usenet quite a bit .. 😉

I was actually referring to the chaps website, which was unworkable using MS IE, but works fine
with Opera and others .. 😉

If you were referring to his website why didn't you say that in the original post rather than
quoting part of his sig which refers to newsposts and thus leading us all to believe that you were
referring to that sig.

Colin

Colin Blackburn said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Arthur Clune wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> David Marsh wrote:

>>> I scorefile posters who don't quote in traditional interleaved style.<

> I wonder why you have such a problem with people who use MS products ..

Really? Does MS software ensure that you can't quote in the normal manner? It didn't last time I
looked.

Arthur

I use MS software and quote normally .. But then I also use Usenet quite a bit .. 😉

I was actually referring to the chaps website, which was unworkable using MS IE, but works fine
with Opera and others .. 😉

If you were referring to his website why didn't you say that in the original post rather than
quoting part of his sig which refers to newsposts and thus leading us all to believe that you were
referring to that sig.

LOL, that was my fault .. brain fart maybe, and not anything to do with MS products .. 😉 If you'd
read what I posted, I believe I _had_ explained what I meant .. 😉

--

Completed 1708 Seti work units in 12974 hours setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edusetiathome.ssl.berkeley.eduOpen ↗

[Interleaved quoting: please read to end for all comments]

about: Re: please support this new cycling website

Quoted message said:

David Marsh said:

Quoted message said:

I scorefile posters who don't quote in traditional interleaved style.<

I wonder why you have such a problem with people who use MS products ..

I don't in particular. I have a problem with applications which don't conform to standards, don't
practice data openness and which aren't bug-fixed. Unfortunately M$ suffer from all three, and
indeed, have been demonstrated to deliberately practice the first two.

It's not my fault if Outbreak reacts badly to an innocuous line in my sig. ;-)

I *really* don't mind people using Word if they want to (I actually quite like its interface,
particularly its handling of styles), but I do get grumpy if people arrogantly send me a Word file
rather than an open-standard document.

Quoted message said:

It appears to me, though no doubt you're not really interested in my opinion, that you're possibly
alienating a lot of the people, possible newcomers to both cycling and computers, who may be
interested in what cycleway is doing or is trying to do.

I'm always happy to help newbies and point out alternatives if asked. But like most net oldbies, I
reserve the right not to help people who don't fit in. It's not as if my sig doesn't also offer
hints as to where help can be found.. I had to learn to fit into the net, when I started, and so,
others do too.

On the quoting issue, the evidence shows that most people soon realise that conforming with
existing community standards is the best way to communicate, and also shows that anybody who
persists in [censored]-quoting generally doesn't have anything to say worth listening to, hence I give
fair warning..

As for my personal website, it's currently a mess, and in the event that it becomes useful again,
I'm sure it'll stand or fail on its own merits.

I take your point that there may be an unfortunate small element of alienation perceived by some,
but my contributions in usenet will show that in general, I'm a helpful person. Anybody who feels
that I'm attacking them for using M$ products, having heard the reasons why I act in such a way, is
somebody that I will be unable to see eye-to-eye with.

However, since you've debated rationally with me, I'm sure you're not one of them ;-)

Cheers,

David.

--
David Marsh, <reply-to-email is valid at time of writing> | Glasgow, Scotland. [en, fr, (de)] |
web.viewport.co.ukweb.viewport.co.ukOpen ↗ | Learn usenet and netiquette: read news:news.announce.newusers |

Quoted message said:

I scorefile posters who don't quote in traditional interleaved style.<

begin Once upon a time, there was a badly-broken newsreader program...

David Marsh said:

I take your point that there may be an unfortunate small element of alienation perceived by some,
but my contributions in usenet will show that in general, I'm a helpful person. Anybody who feels
that I'm attacking them for using M$ products, having heard the reasons why I act in such a way,
is somebody that I will be unable to see eye-to-eye with.

All fair comments. I actually didn't think you were 'attacking' anyone, I was musing on why you post
and publish as you do.

Quoted message said:

However, since you've debated rationally with me, I'm sure you're not one of them ;-)

No worries .. 😉

--

Completed 1718 Seti work units in 13032 hours setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edusetiathome.ssl.berkeley.eduOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

David Marsh said:

I take your point that there may be an unfortunate small element of alienation perceived by
some, but my contributions in usenet will show that in general, I'm a helpful person. Anybody
who feels that I'm attacking them for using M$ products, having heard the reasons why I act in
such a way, is somebody that I will be unable to see eye-to-eye with.

All fair comments. I actually didn't think you were 'attacking' anyone, I was musing on why you
post and publish as you do.

I notice that David's site (at least the front page) is conformant XHTML
1.. It seems that Opera and other browsers support that standard while IE doesn't.

Colin