please slow down on the MUPs

Fritz M said:

The family and I did a casual bike ride on the Platte River Greenway in
Denver the other day. One thing I noticed was all the hammerheads on
their training rides on this MULTI-USE trail. NOT A SINGLE PASSING
CYCLIST INDICATED TO ME THAT HE WAS APPROACHING AND PASSING.

When riding on the trails, vocally indicate your intentions and be
prepared for the other path user to jump the wrong way. It's not that
difficult, people. If you don't like going slow, get off the trail and
onto the road where you belong. If you're afraid of riding in traffic,
get a gym membership or something; There's no need to prove your Red
Cloud White Penis Power by intimidating the pedestrian path users. Be
nice.

This is not an anti-roadie rant, because I are one: Saturday morning I
rode 40 miles in strong winds at 16.7 mph. The previous weekend I rode
30 miles at 18 mph, and the Friday before that I rode 27 miles from
Estes Park into Rocky Mountain National Park and partway up Trail Ridge
Road to 9000 feet elevation. I ride on the Road, where Roadies belong.
On the path, I go slow.

Here's an article in today's Denver Post about the issue.
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~45~2759317,00.html

RFM
My bike blog -- http://www.masoner.net/bike/index.php4

Does the MUP have speed limits posted? If not, a survey of other MUPs would
probably show that typically (depending on the width of the trail) that
15mph is the limit. I saw one MUP that had 20mph as the speed limit. A few
of them had 10-12mph limits.

I've had guys pass me on the bike without any warning and it made me jump.
I started keeping the mirror on my sunglasses for both road and MUP. Oh,
when I asked the guy to give a 'bike up' warning he declined saying that
it's best to go by quickly because people will jump the wrong way.

Though I imagine this might be true of pedestrians, it's not true of
cyclists over the age of 12 - most riders stay to the right except on sharp
curves, then they ride the best line if no one is approaching. Though I was
very frustrated and almost angry for him not to agree when asked, I didn't
take issue. So I can commiserate with you.

OTOH, try not to let it get you too upset. All cyclists should learn to
adapt and remain calm. It's an important skill.

It's not that hard to adapt to this by wearing a mirror and when not
hugging the right side of the trail, use your mirror now and then.

It's not as though only a few fail to warn - if everyone does it, you
pretty much have to adapt. Don't think of it as them imposing their way on
you, think of it as you being flexible and able to adapt easily, if you
can. Easier said than done, I know. ;-)

Good luck.

jj

Good advice. Think of it as self preservation: ya never know what a
deer-in-the-headlights ped. will do. If freeze in the wrong place ... BLAM! If
scurry in the wrong direction ... BLAM! If scurry out of the way but Big Dog
On Long Leash stays put and you try to pass between ... BLAM!

On 14 Mar 2005 10:07:08 -0800, "Fritz M" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

The family and I did a casual bike ride on the Platte River Greenway in
Denver the other day. One thing I noticed was all the hammerheads on
their training rides on this MULTI-USE trail. NOT A SINGLE PASSING
CYCLIST INDICATED TO ME THAT HE WAS APPROACHING AND PASSING.

Shared use paths are a Work of Stan and should be Shunned.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Shared use paths are a Work of Stan and should be Shunned.

He is Fred's brother.

Stan isn't a bad guy. He likes to gamble a bit tho.

"Mike Latondresse" <mikelat@no_spam_shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Shared use paths are a Work of Stan and should be Shunned.

He is Fred's brother.

Shared use paths are a Work of Stan (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think he's one of the tin men.

Fritz M said:

When riding on the trails, vocally indicate your intentions and be
prepared for the other path user to jump the wrong way.

I'm a frequent cyclist who rides the streets and trails in the north
Denver area. Thought I was being a very courteous trail user, always
calling out "Passing on your left/right" when approaching pedestrians
from the rear.

This winter I've been doing a lot more trail walking (as I'm not real
fond of cold weather riding) and my perspective has changed a bit.
People who step the wrong way as you approach aren't just being
"idiots". Walking along you kind of go into a "zone", wrapped up in
your own thoughts, and a vocal call to the immediate rear without any
other warning evokes a startle response before the words are even
processed which may or may not take you in the right direction.

My solution (other than increased care when approaching from the
rear): I've ordered a handlebar bell which I'm going to give a quick
ring maybe 30 to 50 feet back (depending on speed) followed by the
"Passing on your left/right" as I get closer.

We'll see how it works ....,
Bill Davis

Bill Davis said:

My solution (other than increased care when approaching from the
rear): I've ordered a handlebar bell which I'm going to give a quick
ring maybe 30 to 50 feet back (depending on speed) followed by the
"Passing on your left/right" as I get closer.

I was thinking of adding one of these to my bike...

http://www.poweredmarket.com/page/gohop.htm

catzz66 said:

Bill Davis said:

My solution (other than increased care when approaching from the
rear): I've ordered a handlebar bell which I'm going to give a quick
ring maybe 30 to 50 feet back (depending on speed) followed by the
"Passing on your left/right" as I get closer.

I was thinking of adding one of these to my bike...

http://www.poweredmarket.com/page/gohop.htm

My intent is more a polite "letting you know I'm back here". Yours
speaks loudly: "Get your ass the HELL outta my way!!!!"

I see enough obstacles without having to dodge the pile of [censored] on the
trail deposited by some pedestrian startled [censored] :o).

Just zis Guy said:

Shared use paths are a Work of Stan and should be Shunned.

I know a guy named Stan, and he doesn't like them either.

But more seriously: Part of the problem, I believe, is that the normal
passing rules don't work on MUPs, because cyclists treat them as roads,
while peds treat them as sidewalks. Here's what I mean:

Obviously, bikes and motor vehicles normally stay to the right side of
the road (here in the US). When on a road with no sidewalk, peds are
expected to walk on the left, facing traffic. But when on a sidewalk,
peds tend - for whatever reason - to walk on the right. (I assume this
last bit is also reversed in certain countries? I've been there, but I
forget.)

If peds walked on the left side of MUPs, as they do on roads, they'd
see the oncoming cyclists, as opposed to the scene shown in
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~45~2759317,00.html
There'd be much less confusion.

(In Bismarck ND, they try to put the _cyclists_ on the left on MUPs;
but that's foolish. Riding wrong-way on roads is a major cause of
serious car-bike crashes, and their practice would encourage that
mistake.)

Anyway, I doubt that the "walk left" solution will be employed - it's
too original. And I doubt it would be obeyed - MUPs are "no rules
zones."

That's just one of the reasons I don't like 'em.

My wife and I have been riding trails a lot in the past few years. Last
year I bought an old fashioned chrome bell (about $3.00 at Trader Horn).
Using it well before you're on top the someone has greatly helped. Just a
couple quick rings maybe as far back as 100 ft can bring them out of that
trance. I have yet to scare anyone with it.

Bill Davis said:

catzz66 said:

Bill Davis said:

My solution (other than increased care when approaching from the
rear): I've ordered a handlebar bell which I'm going to give a quick
ring maybe 30 to 50 feet back (depending on speed) followed by the
"Passing on your left/right" as I get closer.

I was thinking of adding one of these to my bike...

http://www.poweredmarket.com/page/gohop.htm

My intent is more a polite "letting you know I'm back here". Yours
speaks loudly: "Get your ass the HELL outta my way!!!!"

I see enough obstacles without having to dodge the pile of [censored] on the
trail deposited by some pedestrian startled [censored] :o).

Air horns are useful for those wearing headphones and listening to
recorded sounds at such a volume that they are deaf to normal speech and
bicycle bells.

--
Tom Sherman - Earth (Illinois)

Quoted message said:

If peds walked on the left side of MUPs, as they do on roads, they'd
see the oncoming cyclists, as opposed to the scene shown in
http://www.denverpost.com/Stor­ies/0,1413,36~45~2759317,00.ht­ml
There'd be much less confusion.

In Colorado, the accepted convention is that all path users stay to the
right unless they are passing. My experience on busy trails such as the
South Platte is that pretty much all peds follow this convention. Here,
the convention works just fine.

Where it breaks down is these guys who get ticked off because their
progress is impeded by other trail users, just like some motorists get
ticked off by cyclists blocking their way for a couple of seconds on a
narrow road. In either case, it is the responsibility of the overtaking
operator to ensure the way is safe before passing.

I call out "passing on your left" before I pass a ped or slow
bicyclist. What's so hard about that? Sure, sometimes the ped is
startled and might even jump left, so I'm prepared for that. Most of
the time the ped expresses thanks for the warning. I've never needed an
air horn, even for headphone-wearing path users.

IMHO.

RFM
http://www.masoner.net/bike/index.php4

Fritz M said:

Quoted message said:

If peds walked on the left side of MUPs, as they do on roads,

they'd

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

see the oncoming cyclists, as opposed to the scene shown in
http://www.denverpost.com/Stor­ies/0,1413,36~45~2759317,00.ht­ml
There'd be much less confusion.

In Colorado, the accepted convention is that all path users stay to

the

Quoted message said:

right unless they are passing. My experience on busy trails such as

the

Quoted message said:

South Platte is that pretty much all peds follow this convention.

Here,

Quoted message said:

the convention works just fine.

Where it breaks down is these guys who get ticked off because their
progress is impeded by other trail users, just like some motorists

get

Quoted message said:

ticked off by cyclists blocking their way for a couple of seconds on

a

Quoted message said:

narrow road. In either case, it is the responsibility of the

overtaking

Quoted message said:

operator to ensure the way is safe before passing.

I call out "passing on your left" before I pass a ped or slow
bicyclist. What's so hard about that? Sure, sometimes the ped is
startled and might even jump left, so I'm prepared for that.

Well, on at least one popular trail in this area, it doesn't work so
fine. One might blame the cyclists who get ticked off, I suppose, but
the cyclists point to the peds who hear "passing on your left," stop
and look around confused as they back into the cyclist's path. Or they
blame the people who stop at the right, but let their dog stretch the
leash to the left. Or the ones who stop in the middle to talk to
friends walking from the other direction. And so on.

If bikes moved at 3 mph, like pedestrians, there would be no problem, I
agree. But I prefer a minimum of 15 mph. That's why I'm totally
disdainful of the "Get on the bike path!" crowd, and almost as
distainful of the "We need bike paths everywhere!" crowd. MUPs are
chaotic no-rules zones, and I generally avoid them.

jj said:

Does the MUP have speed limits posted? If not, a survey of other MUPs would
probably show that typically (depending on the width of the trail) that
15mph is the limit. I saw one MUP that had 20mph as the speed limit. A few
of them had 10-12mph limits.

Around here the paths often seem to have 5 mph limits posted.
This is obviously absurd, so everyone of course ignores them.
--
"I admire him, I frankly confess it; and when his time comes
I shall buy a piece of the rope for a keepsake."
--Mark Twain

Fritz M said:

NOT A SINGLE PASSING
CYCLIST INDICATED TO ME THAT HE WAS APPROACHING AND PASSING.

When riding on the trails, vocally indicate your intentions and be
prepared for the other path user to jump the wrong way.

which is *why* they don't announce --- the other users *will*
move the wrong way half the time.

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:34:12 -0700 in rec.bicycles.misc, Bill

Davis said:

I see enough obstacles without having to dodge the pile of [censored] on the
trail deposited by some pedestrian startled [censored] :o).

well, i'm sick and tired of what the dogs leave, as well as those
damn reel leashes. i've found that using a bell works well, the
further back the better. on our trails, we worry more about
bears than hitting peds, so ringing a bell is beneficial.

Mon, 14 Mar 2005 23:50:28 -0900,
<[email hidden]>,

(Dennis P. Harris) said:

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:34:12 -0700 in rec.bicycles.misc, Bill

Davis said:

I see enough obstacles without having to dodge the pile of [censored] on the
trail deposited by some pedestrian startled [censored] :o).

well, i'm sick and tired of what the dogs leave, as well as those
damn reel leashes. i've found that using a bell works well, the
further back the better. on our trails, we worry more about
bears than hitting peds, so ringing a bell is beneficial.

Now we'll have to look for head badges and bells to determine if it
was a cyclist or hiker the bear shat.
--
zk

jj said:

Fritz M said:

The family and I did a casual bike ride on the Platte River Greenway in
Denver the other day. One thing I noticed was all the hammerheads on
their training rides on this MULTI-USE trail. NOT A SINGLE PASSING
CYCLIST INDICATED TO ME THAT HE WAS APPROACHING AND PASSING.

When riding on the trails, vocally indicate your intentions and be
prepared for the other path user to jump the wrong way. It's not that
difficult, people. If you don't like going slow, get off the trail and
onto the road where you belong. If you're afraid of riding in traffic,
get a gym membership or something; There's no need to prove your Red
Cloud White Penis Power by intimidating the pedestrian path users. Be
nice.

This is not an anti-roadie rant, because I are one: Saturday morning I
rode 40 miles in strong winds at 16.7 mph. The previous weekend I rode
30 miles at 18 mph, and the Friday before that I rode 27 miles from
Estes Park into Rocky Mountain National Park and partway up Trail Ridge
Road to 9000 feet elevation. I ride on the Road, where Roadies belong.
On the path, I go slow.

Here's an article in today's Denver Post about the issue.
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~45~2759317,00.html

RFM
My bike blog -- http://www.masoner.net/bike/index.php4

Does the MUP have speed limits posted? If not, a survey of other MUPs would
probably show that typically (depending on the width of the trail) that
15mph is the limit. I saw one MUP that had 20mph as the speed limit. A few
of them had 10-12mph limits.

I've had guys pass me on the bike without any warning and it made me jump.
I started keeping the mirror on my sunglasses for both road and MUP. Oh,
when I asked the guy to give a 'bike up' warning he declined saying that
it's best to go by quickly because people will jump the wrong way.

I have to agree with this somewhat. Too often I've called "on your
left" only to have someone who was travelling in a straight line wobble
around lke a scaredy-cat trying to look at me instead of letting me pass.

When I ride trails around Chicago I whistle stupid songs. People seem
to respond to that without feaking out.

Quoted message said:

Though I imagine this might be true of pedestrians, it's not true of
cyclists over the age of 12 - most riders stay to the right except on sharp
curves, then they ride the best line if no one is approaching. Though I was
very frustrated and almost angry for him not to agree when asked, I didn't
take issue. So I can commiserate with you.

OTOH, try not to let it get you too upset. All cyclists should learn to
adapt and remain calm. It's an important skill.

It's not that hard to adapt to this by wearing a mirror and when not
hugging the right side of the trail, use your mirror now and then.

It's not as though only a few fail to warn - if everyone does it, you
pretty much have to adapt. Don't think of it as them imposing their way on
you, think of it as you being flexible and able to adapt easily, if you
can. Easier said than done, I know. ;-)

Good luck.

jj