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Please help me identify these Campy/Mavic Components!

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21 August 2003
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Jim Rogers
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  1. I got these items as part of a big trade with someone else, and I would like to know more about them
    before I decide what, if anything, I will do with them.

    I have a set of Campy hubs, freehub, 8-speed cassette will fit (so I assume it's an 8 speed hub!).
    It appears to be 130 mm by my quick measuring. The rear hub has a grease port with a silver cover
    (that turns around the center to open/close). It has no markings other than Campagnolo Brev. Int.
    on the grease cover. The front hub has the Campy "winged" trademark symbol. The skewers are the
    "rough" type, knurled around the edges. With the skewers, the front weighs about 250g, the rear
    about 500g.

    I also have a front derailleur. It is clamp-on and only has the winged symbol stamped in it.

    Unlike today, these parts don't say "Record," "Chorus," et.c on them, so I don't know what era or
    level of quality they are.

    Can anyone tell me the level (Record, Chorus, etc.) and approximate age of these items? Also, I have
    two rims by Mavic. They are 32 hole tubulars and have the diamond-shaped Mavic logo and "G.E.L. 280"
    on one and "G.E.L. 330" on the other. There are no other markings (such as SUP, etc.) The weights
    are about 280 and 330 grams, which I assume correspond to the markings. They are dark gray in color.

    Any one have any idea as to the age/level of quality of these rims? Unlike the hubs above, these
    rims appear to compare favorably to new ones in the area of weight. They are of different weight, I
    assume the heavier one is for use in the back, but I don't know if they are a matched set.

    Do any of the new features of Mavic rims (SUP, ceramic, whatever) make these rims dated, or would
    they still make a good wheel?

    Thanks for the help,

    Jim Rogers

  2. Jim,
    They are all fine...build the wheels, ride the wheels ( if you are using an eight speed, that is fine, or convert to that!) break the wheels, rebuild the wheels, ride the wheels, break the wheels...just ride the stuff until it dies...even if just training on it.
    Best Regards,

  3. my circa-'94 8sp chorus hubs and skewers are exactly as you describe.

    $0.02

    dookie

    "Jim Rogers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I got these items as part of a big trade with someone else, and I would like to know more about
    them before I decide what, if anything, I will do with them.

    I have a set of Campy hubs, freehub, 8-speed cassette will fit (so I assume it's an 8 speed
    hub!). It appears to be 130 mm by my quick measuring. The rear hub has a grease port with a
    silver cover (that turns around the center to open/close). It has no markings other than
    Campagnolo Brev. Int. on the grease cover. The front hub has the Campy "winged" trademark symbol.
    The skewers are the "rough" type, knurled around the edges. With the skewers, the front weighs
    about 250g, the rear about 500g.

    I also have a front derailleur. It is clamp-on and only has the winged symbol stamped in it.

    Unlike today, these parts don't say "Record," "Chorus," et.c on them, so I don't know what era or
    level of quality they are.

    Can anyone tell me the level (Record, Chorus, etc.) and approximate age of these items? Also, I
    have two rims by Mavic. They are 32 hole tubulars and have the diamond-shaped Mavic logo and
    "G.E.L. 280" on one and "G.E.L. 330" on the other. There are no other markings (such as SUP, etc.)
    The weights are about 280 and 330 grams, which I assume correspond to the markings. They are dark
    gray in color.

    Any one have any idea as to the age/level of quality of these rims? Unlike the hubs above, these
    rims appear to compare favorably to new ones in the area of weight. They are of different weight,
    I assume the heavier one is for use in the back, but I don't know if they are a matched set.

    Do any of the new features of Mavic rims (SUP, ceramic, whatever) make these rims dated, or would
    they still make a good wheel?

    Thanks for the help,

    Jim Rogers

  4. Record hubs have the grease port. The front derailleurs are impossible to identify without putting
    the years side by side.

    "Jim Rogers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I got these items as part of a big trade with someone else, and I would like to know more about
    them before I decide what, if


    anything,

    Quoted message said:

    I will do with them.

    I have a set of Campy hubs, freehub, 8-speed cassette will fit (so


    I

    Quoted message said:

    assume it's an 8 speed hub!). It appears to be 130 mm by my quick measuring. The rear hub has a
    grease port with a silver cover (that turns around the center to open/close). It has no
    markings other


    than

    Quoted message said:

    Campagnolo Brev. Int. on the grease cover. The front hub has the


    Campy

    Quoted message said:

    "winged" trademark symbol. The skewers are the "rough" type, knurled around the edges. With the
    skewers, the front weighs about 250g, the rear about 500g.

    I also have a front derailleur. It is clamp-on and only has the


    winged

    Quoted message said:

    symbol stamped in it.

    Unlike today, these parts don't say "Record," "Chorus," et.c on


    them,

    Quoted message said:

    so I don't know what era or level of quality they are.

    Can anyone tell me the level (Record, Chorus, etc.) and approximate age of these items? Also, I
    have two rims by Mavic. They are 32 hole tubulars and have the diamond-shaped Mavic logo and
    "G.E.L. 280" on one and "G.E.L. 330" on the other. There are no other markings (such as SUP, etc.)
    The weights are about 280 and 330 grams, which I


    assume

    Quoted message said:

    correspond to the markings. They are dark gray in color.

    Any one have any idea as to the age/level of quality of these rims? Unlike the hubs above, these
    rims appear to compare favorably to new ones in the area of weight. They are of different weight,
    I assume


    the

    Quoted message said:

    heavier one is for use in the back, but I don't know if they are a matched set.

    Do any of the new features of Mavic rims (SUP, ceramic, whatever)


    make

    Quoted message said:

    these rims dated, or would they still make a good wheel?

    Thanks for the help,

    Jim Rogers

  5. In article <[email hidden]>, Jim Rogers

    Quoted message said:

    I have a set of Campy hubs, freehub, 8-speed cassette will fit (so I assume it's an 8 speed hub!).
    It appears to be 130 mm by my quick measuring. The rear hub has a grease port with a silver cover
    (that turns around the center to open/close).

    Record and Chorus 8-speed hubs both had grease ports. The difference is in the skewers - Record has
    a wire loop on the nut end.
    --
    <a href="poohsticks.orgdrew">Home Page</a> The Congress shall assemble at least once in
    every Year, and such Meeting shall be on the first Monday in December, unless they shall by Law
    appoint a different Day.

  6. I think that once in awhile Campi has more Record hubs made than Chorus and if you order a Chorus
    group it includes the Record hubs. That happened to me in around '96.

    "Drew Eckhardt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Jim Rogers

    Quoted message said:

    I have a set of Campy hubs, freehub, 8-speed cassette will fit (so


    I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    assume it's an 8 speed hub!). It appears to be 130 mm by my quick measuring. The rear hub has a
    grease port with a silver cover (that turns around the center to open/close).

    Record and Chorus 8-speed hubs both had grease ports. The


    difference

    Quoted message said:

    is in the skewers - Record has a wire loop on the nut end.
    --
    <a href="poohsticks.orgdrew">Home Page</a> The Congress shall assemble at least once
    in every Year, and such


    Meeting

    Quoted message said:

    shall be on the first Monday in December, unless they shall by Law


    appoint a

    Quoted message said:

    different Day.

  7. I don't suppose you're in the UK? If you are, do you want to sell that GEL280 rim?

    Nick M

  8. Irene-<< It appears to be 130 mm by my quick measuring. The rear hub has a grease port with a silver
    cover (that turns around the center to open/close). It has no markings other than Campagnolo Brev.
    Int. on the grease cover >><BR><BR> << The front hub has the Campy "winged" trademark symbol.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    <BR><BR>

    1993/4/5 Chorus is what I would guess.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (1994)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

  9. Thanks for the input, guys. It supports my hunch that they are probably mid-90's Chorus hubs (there
    is no wire loop on the nut end of the skewer). Still don't know about the rims-- I do know they were
    bought in Europe at least 5 years ago, though.

    The reason I ask about these parts is not because I question their usability. I'm sure I could build
    the wheels up and they would ride just fine for a long time. The reason I ask is because I'm about
    to begin a restoration/customization project. After years of being a student, my career is now to
    the point where I can do this project exactly the way I want. Although I've had a lot of fun in the
    past cobbling together bikes/components, this time I really do not have to compromise.

    The frame is an '89 Bridgestone RB-1. I happen to really like this frame because it is a bit
    sportier than the Grant P. spec'd '90-'94's, but still has long chainstays and wheelbase which
    gives it somewhat of a 'BOBish' feel. After very careful computer and hand measurement, I have
    found that mine (a 63 cm) has almost the exact geometry as a Ritchey Road Logic, IMO, one of the
    best road bikes ever made. So, I consider my BStone frame to be a lugged Road Logic, and I think
    that's pretty cool.

    I'm going to send it out to be stripped, blasted, treated inside, aligned if necessary, have the
    head and bb faced, and whatever else is necessary to make it literally good as new. I think it will
    cost in the $500 dollar range, which is a bit expensive. But when you consider that I will be
    getting slightly historical frame that is exactly the color I want and good as new for less than a
    new Road Logic frame, I think it's not such a bad deal.

    Now, the question is components. The only downside to the RB-1 is that the frame/fork weight is
    nearly a full pound more than the Road Logic, and it is in fact one of the heavier premium frames I
    have ever seen. However, modern groups are so lightweight today, if I bought a complete new group I
    have calculated that the bike will weigh less than the Road Logic did about 8 years ago. I.e., the
    frame may weigh a pound more, but today's Chorus group, saddle, stem, wheels, etc. weighs about a
    pound and a half less than the Ultegra group, saddle, stem, wheels, etc. back then. I believe that I
    could get the bike down to about 20 lbs.-- not bad for a 63 cm, 6.5 lb lugged frame. I would love to
    have a bike like that.

    However, I'm not a total weight weenie and I do appreciate the Grant Petersen, BOB-types who use
    certain components or types of components because they are good even if a bit heavy. I have the
    hubs/rims I described, an 8 speed Athena ergopower/derailleur combination, and a brand new Record 8
    speed cassette. That combination should work very well together, but it is kind of a mixture of
    levels and the weights probably mean that the 20 lb. dream would be out the window. However, the
    weight thing is OK if there is some other reason these components are better than what I can get
    today. So my question is, are those hubs/rims (and handles/derailleur) worth the extra weight?

    If, for example, if the consensus response to my original post was:

    'Yeah, they're perfectly good components, but nothing special about them,'

    then I'm going to get a new Chorus group for the Bstone and move all the older mix of 8 speed stuff
    over to my wife's bike. (She doesn't care in the least what's on her bike as long as it works.)

    However, if the consensus response to my original post is something like:

    'Dear God, man! Those hubs are the famous Campy 8 speed hubs! Those were known to be the best Campy
    ever made, and every change after that resulted in lower weight, but much worse function! They may
    weigh a little more, but they are precious classics and worth every extra gram! Not only that, but
    those 8 speed handles are the bomb, even if they were Athena! All that old stuff may be a bit
    heavier, but it is much, much better than the lightweight junk you get today',

    then I will definitely use those parts on my project bike and be happy regardless of the final
    weight. I will then just get a Veloce ergo/derailleur combo for my wife's bike.

    So, there you go. Before I start my project, I need to evaluate my current inventory of older parts.
    Any help this list could give me in this regard would be greatly appreciated (and thanks again to
    those that already responded).

    BTW, I do not care about the number of gears. Anything between 7 and 9 cogs is fine with me, so that
    aspect will play no role in my decision.

    Jim

  10. Quoted message said:

    I don't suppose you're in the UK? If you are, do you want to sell that GEL280 rim?

    Nick M

    Sorry, I'm not in the U.K. Also, I can't sell them until I know what they are. Care to reveal
    anything about them? I know they were bought in Europe at least 5 years ago.

    Be honest, now! Don't tell me they're junk just so I won't want them and sell them to you at a
    good price. 🙂

    Seriously, the weights of the rims are good, so I'll probably keep them. Is it a standard practice
    to use rims of two different weights on the same bike? How come you just want the 280?

    Jim

  11. Jim, Mavic had 4 mainstay Tubular Rims (box section, Not aero) in the mid to late 80's. (and up to
    the early 90's). A very clever move by Mavic was that all these had the same size/width and rim
    profile. So you could switch between training wheels to racing wheels with no need to adjust or tune
    the bike. Wich incidently also matched the MA40 clincher rim for those who could not afford to train
    on tubulars. Here they are: There were the SSC (Special Service de Course)that were in a word
    bomb-proof. I think they weighed about 430 grams per wheel and tested on the cobbles of the
    Paris-Roubaix. Next on the list was their "general purpose" rim the GP4 I think that was about
    390-400 grams per. Great for training and road racing on marginal roads.

    Then you get into the rims you have. The Gl 330 is a 330 gram rim, and was marketed as a racing rim.
    I had a set of GL 330's that I used for Crit racing way back when. Nice, light and if built
    correctly, very stiff.

    The GEL 280, is a 280 gram rim that was marketed for racing on "good roads" or for time trialing.
    very light..almost too light for general purpose.

    Now, as to the age of your rims... That depends on the Mavic Logo. If the Logo is Red with Gold
    lettering, then they are pre-1990. Mavic changed to a Yellow with Blue lettering in about 1990..or
    maybe 1989. I am not sure when they stopped making these rims. But I would guess about 1996 or 1997.
    (but that is a guess)

    Some people would mix and match rim weights depending on ride style, intended use, and rider weight.
    They conventiona wisdom of the time was to put a heavier/stiffer wheel in the back and a lighter,
    more responsive wheel in the front. Hope this helps, Jay

  12. Jay-- Thanks for the very informative post. I have a few more questions for you, if you don't mind:

    Quoted message said:

    Then you get into the rims you have. The Gl 330 is a 330 gram rim, and was marketed as a racing
    rim. I had a set of GL 330's that I used for Crit racing way back when. Nice, light and if built
    correctly, very stiff.

    The GEL 280, is a 280 gram rim that was marketed for racing on "good roads" or for time trialing.
    very light..almost too light for general purpose.

    Do you think these rims (especially the front) would be too light for me at about 200 lbs.? What
    happens when a rim is too light? If a wheel is not strong enough it collapses. If the rim is too
    light does it just get dented when you run over stuff?

    Quoted message said:

    Now, as to the age of your rims... That depends on the Mavic Logo. If the Logo is Red with Gold
    lettering, then they are pre-1990. Mavic changed to a Yellow with Blue lettering in about 1990..or
    maybe 1989. I am not sure when they stopped making these rims. But I would guess about 1996 or
    1997. (but that is a guess)

    Mine are red with gold lettering, so they must be pre-1990, which makes sense (see below)

    Quoted message said:

    Some people would mix and match rim weights depending on ride style, intended use, and rider
    weight. They conventiona wisdom of the time was to put a heavier/stiffer wheel in the back and a
    lighter, more responsive wheel in the front.

    They were bought in Europe by a guy I know that raced there from the late '80's into the mid '90's.
    He also gave me a set of Vittoria tubulars called Pave. They were bought in Europe and I've never
    seen any tire like them available in the U.S. I have seen Vittoria "Speacial Pave's," but those look
    very different. Mine are pretty big and cushy looking. The guy that gave them to me said they were
    the best tire going and that everyone in Belgium who was racing on their own dime (i.e., didn't have
    a team to pay for their equipment) used them for the rough road racing in that area. He claimed they
    would be the best tire I ever used (and since he was giving them to me he had no reason to
    exaggerate).

    I had planned on using those tires on the rims you identified for me, but now that I know that the
    rims are very light, I wonder if it is the right thing to do. Would you recommend putting those big
    (and I assume heavy) tires on those ultralight rims, or would that be stupid since the rim is
    designed for light weight smooth road wheels? Would it be better to put the lightest weight tires on
    those rims to get the lightest wheel possible and then use it only on smooth roads? Or would the big
    tires give some protection to the lightweight rims yielding a very light rough road wheel?

    Thanks,

    Jim

  13. Quoted message said:

    Do you think these rims (especially the front) would be too light for me at about 200 lbs.? What
    happens when a rim is too light? If a wheel is not strong enough it collapses. If the rim is too
    light does it just get dented when you run over stuff?

    Well, that would be pretty close for the GEL 280, but you would have to consult a wheel guru with
    some history building up these rims. Perhaps Mr. Brandt would could offer his valuable
    assistance/guidance.

    Quoted message said:

    Mine are red with gold lettering, so they must be pre-1990, which makes sense (see below)

    They were bought in Europe by a guy I know that raced there from the late '80's into the mid
    '90's. He also gave me a set of Vittoria tubulars called Pave. They were bought in Europe and I've
    never seen any tire like them available in the U.S. I have seen Vittoria "Speacial Pave's," but
    those look very different. Mine are pretty big and cushy looking.

    Yes, I am familar with the tire you are talking about. Similar to Mavic, Vittoria had a line of
    tubulars that shared similar profiles, but had specific uses. The ever-popular Corsa CX that you see
    available had two cousins at that time (three if you count the Corsa CX seta, anyone remember that
    sweet little tire). The Corsa CG (same tread pattern as the CX, only heavier treading) was
    frequently used as a rear tire and a CX was used as a front. Of course, lot's of people also used
    CX's on both. The Special Pave (I have also seen it called the Pave CG or the Pave) is basically a
    heavier Corsa CG. It's desiged as its name implies, for terrible roads/conditions (Pave=cobbles). To
    me, this tire is a little impratical for most American conditions. It's heavy, durable and
    overbuilt. It's a safe bet that most spring classics in the mid to late 80's were won on Pave's
    glued to Mavic SSC rims. In today's terms, it's most similar to the green/black "All-weather" model
    you see in the catalogs.

    Quoted message said:

    I had planned on using those tires on the rims you identified for me, but now that I know that the
    rims are very light, I wonder if it is the right thing to do. Would you recommend putting those
    big (and I assume heavy) tires on those ultralight rims, or would that be stupid since the rim is
    designed for light weight smooth road wheels? Would it be better to put the lightest weight tires
    on those rims to get the lightest wheel possible and then use it only on smooth roads? Or would
    the big tires give some protection to the lightweight rims yielding a very light rough road wheel?

    No, I would not mount the Pave's to these rims. Way too much tire for what you need. Unless you are
    planning a tour through the Arenburg forrest.

    I am biased toward Vittoria, and think they are great tubulars. Unless you are planning to race
    these wheels, you might consider the Nuovo-Pro (about $35 each) as a great all around tire (that's
    what I use, and I am about 220 pounds) But the Continental Sprinter is also an excellent tire.

    I would suggest that, unless you have a great sentimental attachment to these tires, you sell them.
    Use the money to get some tubulars more suited to your needs. Also, if you have never mounted a
    tubular before, I would recommend you check out the Park Tool website for a great set of mounting
    instructions. (One thing that helps is to mount the tire to a rim with no glue, and inflate it to
    about 120-140 PSI (depending on the tires Max rating) and let it stretch for a couple of days before
    you attempt to glue it. You may want to find someone local to help you with the mounting process. I
    am certain that most LBS's don't glue tubulars due to the risk of a roll-off (reference Beloki's
    crash at the TDF) Hope this helps, and again, this is just my $0.02,

    Jay

  14. Jay-- thanks again for your replies. This is really helping me out. I have a few more
    questions below:

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, I am familar with the tire you are talking about. Similar to Mavic, Vittoria had a line of
    tubulars that shared similar profiles, but had specific uses. The ever-popular Corsa CX that you
    see available had two cousins at that time (three if you count the Corsa CX seta, anyone remember
    that sweet little tire). The Corsa CG (same tread pattern as the CX, only heavier treading) was
    frequently used as a rear tire and a CX was used as a front. Of course, lot's of people also used
    CX's on both. The Special Pave (I have also seen it called the Pave CG or the Pave) is basically a
    heavier Corsa CG. It's desiged as its name implies, for terrible roads/conditions (Pave=cobbles).
    To me, this tire is a little impratical for most American conditions. It's heavy, durable and
    overbuilt. It's a safe bet that most spring classics in the mid to late 80's were won on Pave's
    glued to Mavic SSC rims. In today's terms, it's most similar to the green/black "All-weather"
    model you see in the catalogs.

    After seeing your response yesterday, I went home to look at my tires again. They actually are
    labeled "Pave CG," which you say are the same as the Special Pave. You also say they are the same
    as the green/black all-weathers. However, according to the Vittoria Website, the All Weathers are
    smaller and racier than the Special Pave's. I own the green/black All Weathers and I think my
    Pave's are bigger than those (although when I checked them side-by-side yesterday, they're closer
    than I thought).

    I'm thinking now that I have an older version of the Special Pave.

    Quoted message said:

    No, I would not mount the Pave's to these rims. Way too much tire for what you need. Unless you
    are planning a tour through the Arenburg forrest.

    What I was originally going for was this: I have the green All-Weathers on a set of Spinergy's. I
    like tubular Spinergy's and I think the All Weather is a good tire because it is the same weight as
    all the other Vittoria racing tires (270g) but is 1mm bigger and has a little more tread. It's good
    for the "racing with my friends as we commute to work" thing that I do almost every day, rain or
    shine (and occasionally snow!). I've raced and commuted a long ways on that wheel/tire combo.

    But lately I've been considering building up a retro-type bike. Following Rivendell-like philosophy,
    I wanted nice, big cushy tires and relaxed frame geometry that would yield a mega-comfortable ride
    would also be competent if raced a little. The Pave's seem like they would be perfect because they
    are bigger and lower pressure (and tubular to boot-- nothing more retro than that!).

    Quoted message said:

    I would suggest that, unless you have a great sentimental attachment to these tires, you sell
    them. Use the money to get some tubulars more suited to your needs.

    Actually, I'm more inclined now to sell the rims. I want two sets of tubulars on two diffenent sets
    of wheels; one racy and light (Spinergy's + All Weather), one soft and comfortable (? + Pave's).
    However, just because it's soft and comfortable, I would still like light weight, if possible.
    That's why I was wondering if the Pave's might be a good match for the mavic rims-- soft and cushy
    ride (because of the tires), but not too much weight penalty (because the ultralight rims offset the
    heavier tires). In addition, the bigger size of the Pave's might provide some protection for the
    delicate Mavics.

    Quoted message said:

    Also, if you have never mounted a tubular before, I would recommend you check out the Park Tool
    website for a great set of mounting instructions. (One thing that helps is to mount the tire to a
    rim with no glue, and inflate it to about 120-140 PSI (depending on the tires Max rating) and let
    it stretch for a couple of days before you attempt to glue it. You may want to find someone local
    to help you with the mounting process. I am certain that most LBS's don't glue tubulars due to the
    risk of a roll-off (reference Beloki's crash at the TDF)

    I always just follow the standard instructions (found almost anywhere) for gluing tubulars, and I've
    never had a problem. Considering my weight and the speeds I routinely corner at, I ride them hard
    enough to be pretty sure they're glued on right.

    However, the only thing that scares me about them is if I get a flat. Unbelievably, since I started
    riding tubulars about 7 years ago, I've never had a flat! I always care a spare tire (one that had
    been previously glued) and a little bit of glue, but I've never had to use them. I carry the glue
    because my tires have been glued on for so many years I'm afraid there will be no tackiness when I
    remove one after a flat. Thus, I figured the quick applications of a SMALL amount of glue might
    provide enough tackiness and dry quickly enough to get me home if I ride very carefully.
    Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I've never had to test this plan.

    Oh well, I'm getting off topic, but I'm kind of a wheel/tire nut. Sounds like you are as well. Let
    me know what rims you think would be a good match to the Pave's for that cushy yet light/fast
    old-style wheel.

    Thanks again for all the info-- I really appreciate it!

    Jim

  15. Jim, Ah, yes, you have the Pave CG, older than the "Special Pave" and the heavier version of the
    Corsa CG. Regarding the comparason to the All weather tires, I meant that they are the closest thing
    to the Special PAve and Pave CG that you can find in USA.

    After seeing your response yesterday, I went home to look at my tires

    Quoted message said:

    again. They actually are labeled "Pave CG," which you say are the same as the Special Pave. You
    also say they are the same as the green/black all-weathers. I'm thinking now that I have an older
    version of the Special Pave.

    weight penalty (because the

    Quoted message said:

    ultralight rims offset the heavier tires). In addition, the bigger size of the Pave's might
    provide some protection for the delicate Mavics.

    Yes, you are right, Light rims with heavy tires is counterproductive.

    Quoted message said:

    However, the only thing that scares me about them is if I get a flat. Unbelievably, since I
    started riding tubulars about 7 years ago, I've never had a flat! I always care a spare tire (one
    that had been previously glued) and a little bit of glue, but I've never had to use them. I carry
    the glue because my tires have been glued on for so many years I'm afraid there will be no
    tackiness when I remove one after a flat. Thus, I figured the quick applications of a SMALL amount
    of glue might provide enough tackiness and dry quickly enough to get me home if I ride very
    carefully. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I've never had to test this plan.

    My advise is take the glue out of the bag, you wont need it. Having flatted a few tubies, the best
    thing is to do like you are doing and carry a spare that has been glued before. Just peel the old
    one off, put the spare on, and inflate to usual pressures. One trick I have heard is to ride the
    brakes for a few minutes to re-soften the glue, and then stay off the brakes to let it cool down.
    Don't know if that works or not, but (knock wood) I have not rolled a spare.

    Quoted message said:

    Oh well, I'm getting off topic, but I'm kind of a wheel/tire nut. Sounds like you are as well. Let
    me know what rims you think would be a good match to the Pave's for that cushy yet light/fast
    old-style wheel.

    Oh, If you were going to do that, I would recommend getting a pair of NOS GP4's or SSC's (i see
    them on Ebay a lot). I would also think that the Reflex tubular rims available these days would be
    fine. But, if you are going for a vintage look, get a pair of the older style rims. If you want
    cushy, I would not get them tied and soldered. (That was a joke....like anybody remembers tied and
    soldered wheels 🙂

    Best of luck, Jay

  16. Jay-- hope your not sick of talking about this, but I'm really enjoying this conversation and have a
    few more questions, if you don't mind:

    Quoted message said:

    Ah, yes, you have the Pave CG, older than the "Special Pave" and the heavier version of the Corsa
    CG. Regarding the comparason to the All weather tires, I meant that they are the closest thing to
    the Special PAve and Pave CG that you can find in USA.

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, you are right, Light rims with heavy tires is counterproductive.

    I see what you mean about it being counterproductive, but I was actually trying to positive. Is it
    possible that, instead of being a counterproductive combination (not the lightest/fastest, but also
    not the toughest/strongest), it might be a good _compromise_ (striking a balance between weight and
    toughness)? Usually when one wants a compromise between weight and durability, one would get both a
    wheel and tire that were each a compromise. However, sometimes you can reach the same balance by
    selecting one item from one extreme (in this case the rim from the extremely light end of the
    spectrum) and the other item from the other extreme (i.e., the tire from the heavy end of the
    spectrum). On average, it might reach the same compromise between weight and strength.

    However, I understand that what I'm saying is akin to asking "if I put one foot in boiling water and
    the other in ice water, will I be comfortable on average?" Sometimes that works and sometimes it
    doesn't. I'm wondering if it might work with the PAVE CG and the GEL rims.

    I promise this will be the last I bug you about this topic, but now I have some questions on spare
    tubulars. 🙂

    Quoted message said:

    My advise is take the glue out of the bag, you wont need it. Having flatted a few tubies, the best
    thing is to do like you are doing and carry a spare that has been glued before. Just peel the old
    one off, put the spare on, and inflate to usual pressures. One trick I have heard is to ride the
    brakes for a few minutes to re-soften the glue, and then stay off the brakes to let it cool down.
    Don't know if that works or not, but (knock wood) I have not rolled a spare.

    When you just peel off the old and put on the spare, are you assuming some tackiness from the old
    glue on the rim and on the spare? I've been told that's why you can safely change to a spare tire on
    the road and ride back home. However, my All-Weathers have not been off the Spinergy's in seven
    years, and the previously-glued spare has not been on a rim for the same seven years. Should I
    occasionally remove my tires and re-glue them to make sure the spare will stay on? Or would a
    totally un-glued tire stay on the rim well enough to carefully ride home?

    Quoted message said:

    Oh, If you were going to do that, I would recommend getting a pair of NOS GP4's or SSC's (i see
    them on Ebay a lot). I would also think that the Reflex tubular rims available these days would be
    fine. But, if you are going for a vintage look, get a pair of the older style rims. If you want
    cushy, I would not get them tied and soldered. (That was a joke....like anybody remembers tied and
    soldered wheels 🙂

    Actually, I have a set of tied/soldered wheels! Remember, I'm a wheel nut so I tend to pick these
    things up when I see them. They are old Wolber rims with old Record hubs. I think they would fit the
    bill, but after I got them (at a swap meet) I realized they were 28 spoke wheels and was afraid to
    use them because I about 200 lbs. Ended up trading them to a friend who weighs 120 lbs., but he's
    not using them so I could always get them back!

    At the time, I didn't think it was a big loss to trade them away because Bandt's book said that
    tying and soldering makes no difference whatsoever in the wheels. Still don't, really, because I
    think for retro look/feel I need 36 spokes anyway.

    Jim

  17. [email hidden] (Jim Rogers) wrote in message [about tubulars]

    Quoted message said:

    I think the All Weather is a good tire because it is the same weight as all the other Vittoria
    racing tires (270g) but is 1mm bigger and has a little more tread.

    Is it really true that the All Weather is the same weight as the other Vittoria tires (CX etc). I
    don't have a good scale or any CXs, but it seems like the All Weather is heavier.

    I've got some clinchers in each version and will try to compare them.

    JT

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