plane travel questions

In my experience on international flights, (outside USA) baggage including
bikes goes by weight alone, so folding/seperable/fixed makes no differrence.

Some airlines have concessions for bikes, but this is dissappearing, it
makes more difference who is on the counter when you check in, sometimes a
bike which obviously takes you over your allowance is just checked in
without comment, sometimes FULL excess kgs are asked for. . . can be
frustrating and in the later case expensive unless you travel light. . .

Dave

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm helping a friend out in trying to figure out whether it'd be
worth it for her to get a folding/seperable bike or a more normal one.
The bike is mostly going to be used for commuting/touring/general
transportation and won't be a real globetrotter but she'll probably
want to bring it around the country (US) with her quite a bit (probably
on the order of at least a 10 trips in the foreseeable future alone).
There's a ton of stuff online about bikes on planes but I'm having
trouble finding solid answers to a few questions:

1. I've read a lot of reports from folding bike owners saying they've
never had to pay anything extra, but have seen it mentioned other
places that some airlines have an automatic surcharge for shipping a
bike, regardless of dimensions and whether it's boxed or not. After
looking through some (but not nearly all) baggage policies of major
airlines, I'm guessing that the way this works is that the printed
policy is almost always that any bike that fits within the free baggage
dimensional limits, ie usually but not always a folding/seperable bike,
gets to fly for free, but bikes that are over that either get the
oversize fee or a special bike-specific fee - and the result is that
oftentimes, airline employees will apply the additional fees to any
full-sized bike without checking the dimensions first, and then you
have to argue the point to them or their boss or whatever. Is that
generally accurate or am I missing something?

One reason this is significant is that my friend is petite and we may
be able to do some tricks with finding a hard case within average "free
baggage" size limits that could fit a regular bike for her. (There's a
few reasons why we'd probably prefer to go the non-folding route unless
it will save enough money over time).

2. Anyone know any hard cases (or pairs of them, I guess) that are
specifically good for the above idea? Any users of small
non-folding/seperable bikes who have gone this route have any
experiences to share?

3. It occurred to me while writing this that most bikes of any size
could be split into 2 hardcases, with frame in one and fork plus wheels
in the other, and technically be able to go without a surcharge that
way, with room in the cases to spare for other luggage. Anyone do this?

4. How does all this generally change regarding international flights?

Thanks in advance.

<[email hidden]> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

One reason this is significant is that my friend is petite and we may
be able to do some tricks with finding a hard case within average "free
baggage" size limits that could fit a regular bike for her. (There's a
few reasons why we'd probably prefer to go the non-folding route unless
it will save enough money over time).

I understand the size limit to be 62 linear inches (length + girth). How
small is your friend and /or her future bike? Will she be using wheels
smaller than 26" (standard mountain bike diameter)?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3. It occurred to me while writing this that most bikes of any size
could be split into 2 hardcases, with frame in one and fork plus wheels
in the other, and technically be able to go without a surcharge that
way, with room in the cases to spare for other luggage. Anyone do this?

Wheels are removed to pack the bike in a lot of shipping boxes/hardcases, so
I question how much smaller each of the two hardcases could be.

Quoted message said:

4. How does all this generally change regarding international flights?

The two airlines (British Airways & Lufthansa) that I've used for overseas
flights recently have different rules for different parts of the world, with
rules for flights from North America to Europe and flights within Europe
being much more liberal than rules for flights within the US on domestic
carriers. Both airlines accept bicycles as part of the checked baggage
allowance, boxed or unboxed, and are known for treating people's bicycles
carefully. Both airlines appear to waive the luggage size restrictions for
bicycles, AFAIK. Lufthansa asked me to make a reservation for all four legs
of my upcoming Denver-Florence roundtrip, I used their toll free number
which I'm pretty sure connected me to someone in Germany. They are carrying
the bike free of charge.

US carriers used to carry bikes for free on international journeys, lots of
them are now starting to charge the same fees for international flights that
they do for domestic flights.

Check the website of the airline you are flying on each time for the exact
rules, before you buy a ticket. If your journey involves multiple airlines,
check the website for each airline. Print copies of the relevant rules and
bring them with you to the check in counter.

There are a lot of discount airlines operating between the UK and the
continent that offer very attractive fares, but they charge fairly stiff
fees for bicycles and interpret luggage restrictions to their own benefit.
They are not known for treating bicycles (or other luggage) very carefully,
and their attitude toward customers with lost/damaged luggage is reportedly
"ignore the customer until he goes away".

For travel within the US, shipping the bike by FedEx Ground is (for the time
being) cheaper than UPS and much cheaper than any airline's bike fee in this
country. FedEx Ground's size categories are such that a bicycle in a
standard bike box (something the size of the cardboard box it was shipped to
the bike shop in) does not incur oversize shipping charges.
--
mark

I'm petite (5'3"😉. My road bike frame is 25" x 36", wheels are 650s. (26"
in diameter). A hard case for the frame alone would probably hit the limit
of 62 inches.

I also have a coupled tandem. It does fit in two airline legal cases.
Since technically, neither case holds a bike, rather bike parts, we have
never been charged for a bike.:-) Then again, it takes awhile to
reassemble. I assume a regular bike would only be coupled into two pieces,
so it might be a bit faster.

"mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

One reason this is significant is that my friend is petite and we may
be able to do some tricks with finding a hard case within average "free
baggage" size limits that could fit a regular bike for her. (There's a
few reasons why we'd probably prefer to go the non-folding route unless
it will save enough money over time).

I understand the size limit to be 62 linear inches (length + girth). How
small is your friend and /or her future bike? Will she be using wheels
smaller than 26" (standard mountain bike diameter)?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3. It occurred to me while writing this that most bikes of any size
could be split into 2 hardcases, with frame in one and fork plus wheels
in the other, and technically be able to go without a surcharge that
way, with room in the cases to spare for other luggage. Anyone do this?

Wheels are removed to pack the bike in a lot of shipping boxes/hardcases,

so

Quoted message said:

I question how much smaller each of the two hardcases could be.

Quoted message said:

4. How does all this generally change regarding international flights?

The two airlines (British Airways & Lufthansa) that I've used for overseas
flights recently have different rules for different parts of the world,

with

Quoted message said:

rules for flights from North America to Europe and flights within Europe
being much more liberal than rules for flights within the US on domestic
carriers. Both airlines accept bicycles as part of the checked baggage
allowance, boxed or unboxed, and are known for treating people's bicycles
carefully. Both airlines appear to waive the luggage size restrictions for
bicycles, AFAIK. Lufthansa asked me to make a reservation for all four

legs

Quoted message said:

of my upcoming Denver-Florence roundtrip, I used their toll free number
which I'm pretty sure connected me to someone in Germany. They are

carrying

Quoted message said:

the bike free of charge.

US carriers used to carry bikes for free on international journeys, lots

of

Quoted message said:

them are now starting to charge the same fees for international flights

that

Quoted message said:

they do for domestic flights.

Check the website of the airline you are flying on each time for the exact
rules, before you buy a ticket. If your journey involves multiple

airlines,

Quoted message said:

check the website for each airline. Print copies of the relevant rules and
bring them with you to the check in counter.

There are a lot of discount airlines operating between the UK and the
continent that offer very attractive fares, but they charge fairly stiff
fees for bicycles and interpret luggage restrictions to their own benefit.
They are not known for treating bicycles (or other luggage) very

carefully,

Quoted message said:

and their attitude toward customers with lost/damaged luggage is

reportedly

Quoted message said:

"ignore the customer until he goes away".

For travel within the US, shipping the bike by FedEx Ground is (for the

time

Quoted message said:

being) cheaper than UPS and much cheaper than any airline's bike fee in

this

Quoted message said:

country. FedEx Ground's size categories are such that a bicycle in a
standard bike box (something the size of the cardboard box it was shipped

to

Quoted message said:

the bike shop in) does not incur oversize shipping charges.
--
mark

AnyDave said:

In my experience on international flights, (outside USA) baggage including
bikes goes by weight alone, so folding/seperable/fixed makes no differrence.

Some airlines have concessions for bikes, but this is dissappearing, it
makes more difference who is on the counter when you check in, sometimes a
bike which obviously takes you over your allowance is just checked in
without comment, sometimes FULL excess kgs are asked for. . . can be
frustrating and in the later case expensive unless you travel light. . .

But people 20 kg overweight don't get charged more so long as they fit
in the seat...awesome.

yeah, I went there. (sorry, I'm done with finals and bored)

\\paul

Quoted message said:

1. I've read a lot of reports from folding bike owners saying they've
never had to pay anything extra, but have seen it mentioned other
places that some airlines have an automatic surcharge for shipping a
bike, regardless of dimensions and whether it's boxed or not.

My folding Dahon in its "Airporter" suitcase incurred a surcharge of 59
euros on the way out from Paris to Prague and, at exactly the same
weight and on the same airline, 80 euros on the way back to Paris. This
over the cost of the suitcase itself at around 200 euros. So my bike's
flight literally cost more than my own.

EFR
Ile de France

"Cathy Kearns" wrote...

Quoted message said:

I'm petite (5'3"😉. My road bike frame is 25" x 36", wheels are 650s. (26"
in diameter). A hard case for the frame alone would probably hit the

limit

Quoted message said:

of 62 inches.

I also have a coupled tandem. It does fit in two airline legal cases.
Since technically, neither case holds a bike, rather bike parts, we have
never been charged for a bike.:-) Then again, it takes awhile to
reassemble. I assume a regular bike would only be coupled into two

pieces,

Quoted message said:

so it might be a bit faster.

I guess you're aware that S&S offers a travel case for bikes equipped with
their couplings that meets airline size requirements.

Personally I would ship the bike FedEx ground within the US, and find an
airline that would take the bike for free on overseas trips.
--
mark

Quoted message said:

I understand the size limit to be 62 linear inches (length + girth). How
small is your friend and /or her future bike? Will she be using wheels
smaller than 26" (standard mountain bike diameter)?

This is correct. If the luggage is over the 62 inch or over 50 lbs or you
check more than two bags, then you will be charged the extra luggage fee.
The weight isn't a problem, but the size is unless you can break it up into
two cases like you said. However, since you are only allowed to check two
bags then you will have to be traveling light enough to get all your other
belongings in the smaller carry on luggage. It is a challenge. I ended up
packing the bike in a regular bike box and paying the extra money. ($50 on
Alaska airlines and $80 on American)

Sid

Quoted message said:

1. I've read a lot of reports from folding bike owners saying they've
never had to pay anything extra, but have seen it mentioned other
places that some airlines have an automatic surcharge for shipping a
bike, regardless of dimensions and whether it's boxed or not.

My Bike Friday folder fits in a standard Samsonite suitcase that looks
(and is) exactly the same as all the other ones being checked in. I
have never been asked what was inside it (or my other luggage), only
the usual anti-terrorist questions as to whether I packed it myself and
always had it in my possession. Presumably the TSA X-ray machines can
see that there are bike parts inside, but they are separate from the
airline check-in counter and don't care about airline baggage charges.

When I ride the bike to the airport towing the suitcase I do the bike
disassembly and packing somewhere that's not in view of the airline
counter. I doubt if anyone would try to impose a charge anyway, but
this way there's never any question about it.

Quoted message said:

"Cathy Kearns" wrote...

Quoted message said:

I'm petite (5'3"😉. My road bike frame is 25" x 36", wheels are 650s.
(26"
in diameter). A hard case for the frame alone would probably hit the

limit

Quoted message said:

of 62 inches.

I also have a coupled tandem. It does fit in two airline legal cases.
Since technically, neither case holds a bike, rather bike parts, we have
never been charged for a bike.:-) Then again, it takes awhile to
reassemble. I assume a regular bike would only be coupled into two

pieces,

Quoted message said:

so it might be a bit faster.

I guess you're aware that S&S offers a travel case for bikes equipped with
their couplings that meets airline size requirements.

Personally I would ship the bike FedEx ground within the US, and find an
airline that would take the bike for free on overseas trips.
--
mark

FedEx may cost *more* than the $80 the domestic airlines charge. FedEx and
UPS have similar rates & oversize limits, and will often claim that a box
you'd think is "legal" is oversized because it's bulging in the center. What
used to cost under $40 to ship cross-country can now run upwards of $130.

Plus, there's something to be said for the reasonble likelihood of your
bicycle traveling on the same plane as you.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Some enterprising soul needs to start a bike rental franchise. It could
be outfitted with a one-size-fits-most type of 7-speed townie bike, and
connected to a LBS for maintenance and the occasional rental of a TAB
or tandem or different size. Reserve the bike online, pick up and drop
off at airport or hotel. Includes local maps and routes, helmet, water
bottle. Plenty of cities have close-in airports and good places to
ride, and folks on business trips don't always want to rent a car/sit
in a car/park a car.

It could be a traveler's club, not unlike the shared city rental cars
concept.

If truckstops can rent books-on-tape and big cities can rent bike
lockers by-the-day, someone could do this and combine it with their
Ebay sales or website design or catering biz.

Go for it. Please consider the idea person who gave you this idea when
you make your first $100K.

--Karen D.

There are lots of bike shops that rent bikes -- maybe most of them.

For some time I've been collecting information on user experiences taking
bikes on planes, trains, buses, boats, etc. There's lots of stuff on
RENTALS, folding bikes, boxing, airlines, and railroads around the world and
how to ride in/out of about 150 airports.

See it at http://www.BikeAccess.net

George

"Veloise" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some enterprising soul needs to start a bike rental franchise. It could
be outfitted with a one-size-fits-most type of 7-speed townie bike, and
connected to a LBS for maintenance and the occasional rental of a TAB
or tandem or different size. Reserve the bike online, pick up and drop
off at airport or hotel. Includes local maps and routes, helmet, water
bottle. Plenty of cities have close-in airports and good places to
ride, and folks on business trips don't always want to rent a car/sit
in a car/park a car.

It could be a traveler's club, not unlike the shared city rental cars
concept.

If truckstops can rent books-on-tape and big cities can rent bike
lockers by-the-day, someone could do this and combine it with their
Ebay sales or website design or catering biz.

Go for it. Please consider the idea person who gave you this idea when
you make your first $100K.

--Karen D.

mark said:

<[email hidden]> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For travel within the US, shipping the bike by FedEx Ground is (for the time
being) cheaper than UPS and much cheaper than any airline's bike fee in this
country. FedEx Ground's size categories are such that a bicycle in a
standard bike box (something the size of the cardboard box it was shipped to
the bike shop in) does not incur oversize shipping charges.
--
mark

I beg to differ. Just shipped an EMPTY Trek box to a friend in VA from
NY (he's shipping me a 5500 back). UPS wanted $114, FedEx was $84 for
the empty box. Standard Trek box, 52" X 33" X 8" weighed under 10
pounds. Dimensional weight was 90 pounds!! (calculated by dimensions
then converted to theoretical weight on some unknown planet)

Still a deal to get a 200 mile 5500, but even the FedEx guy was
surprised.