Pizza dough help

I don't think if it came out tough or chewy you over
developed the dough for the amount of gluten in it. The
combination of ap and cake flour makes for a very low gluten
level. More likely it didn't get to rise long enough.

John, here is how I make pizza. I originally posted this
over on a.b.f:

Hey All,

Van asked what was on the pizza. So I will share the recipe.
I can't give you the pizza dough recipe because it is a look
and feel thing. I can tell you how I make it.

I start with two large pinches of yeast added to 20 oz of
bread flour. I like Cresota brand. Three pinches of coarse
sea salt. Mix well, add enough hot water to make a shaggy
mass. Let sit for 15 minutes. Add 1/2 cup of good evoo and
knead until smooth. This will take 5-10 minutes on a kitchen
aid. You may have to add a little water. Puck a small bit
out and see if it forms a window. Add 1/3 cup of stone
ground cornmeal. You have to use stone ground cornmeal
regular cornmeal will just cut the gluten and leave you with
the a hard tack like crust. Knead until just combined. Form
into a ball and let rise until double. Knock down. Divide
into 5 oz balls and let double again. Knock down and roll
into 9 inch circles. Stack with cake cardboards. Keep warm
if making right away. Put in plastic bag and chill for up to
4 days. Warm to room temp before using.

Heat oven to highest heat with pizza stone or quarry tiles
in it for atleast a hour before starting pizza baking. I
like to get all the cheese grated and ingredients preped
during this hour.

I then hand stretch the dough to about 12-14" on a floured
granite surface. I then transfer to a cornmeal dusted peel.

For the pictured pizza:

Dots of pureed garlic. Danish Fontina cheese, smoked
provolone, whole milk mozzeralla, buffalo mozzeralla, and
asiago cheese(less is more here). Sliced roma tomatoes and
sliced artichoke bottoms. Then a dusting of pecorino romano.
Shake the peel to make sure the pizza slides.

Slide pizza onto stone and bake until cheese is nice and
bubbly. This will normally only take a few minutes.

When it comes out slice on cutting board and then transfer
to serving plate. Squirt on some basil olive oil. Sprinkle
on a little salt. Eat. Repeat.

Chef

"John N." <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I make a lot of pizzas, and the last couple times I made
seem to have lost something in the crust. I'm hoping
someone here can help me identify the problem and suggest
a solution.

The pizza crust is (supposed to be) a Neapolitan style.
The proportions are 1.25 C water, 2.5 C all purpose and 1
C cake flower and 1 tsp. yeast. (This recipe is from the
book Pizza: Any Way You Slice It). At it's best, the crust
is very thin in the center, puffy around the rim and has a
nice, chewy texture and a great 'fresh bread' flavor (for
lack of a better term).

The last couple times it has come out too chewy, almost
hard or tough, not as puffy and without that nice flavor.
Here's some things that may be effecting it:

Yeast - I was always careful not to use too hot water.
Package was new and date was fine.

Kneading - I kneaded approximately 7 minutes in the
Kitchen Aid and another 2-3 by hand. Could I be overdoing
it and developing too much gluten? Ot not enough gluten to
support the rise?

Hydration - It did feel a little drier than it usually
does last time. The recipe calls for 2.5 to 3 C all
purpose, and I was at the low end of that. Would a wetter
dough help me get that lighter, chewier texture?

Proof time - Recipe calls for a first rise for 90
minutes, divide into 4 balls (with minimal handling) and
another 90 minute rise until doubled. I did as suggested,
and it seemed about doubled. I know slower proof times
can improve flavor, but my best results have come using
these times.

Too many variables, and too little time to experiment a
lot. Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

John

Perhaps it isn't the dough but the oven temp? This could
dry the crust out...making it tough. Check that the oven
temp matches what you set it at with a thermometer.
Perhaps you changed flour brands, so that the gluten
percentage has changed?

--
Once during Prohibition I was forced to live for days on
nothing but food and water.
--------
FIELDS, W. C.

"John N." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I make a lot of pizzas, and the last couple times I made
seem to have lost something in the crust. I'm hoping
someone here can help me identify the problem and suggest
a solution.

The pizza crust is (supposed to be) a Neapolitan style.
The proportions

are

Quoted message said:

1.25 C water, 2.5 C all purpose and 1 C cake flower and 1
tsp. yeast.

(This

Quoted message said:

recipe is from the book Pizza: Any Way You Slice It). At
it's best, the crust is very thin in the center, puffy
around the rim and has a nice,

chewy

Quoted message said:

texture and a great 'fresh bread' flavor (for lack of a
better term).

The last couple times it has come out too chewy, almost
hard or tough, not as puffy and without that nice flavor.
Here's some things that may be effecting it:

Yeast - I was always careful not to use too hot water.
Package was new and date was fine.

Kneading - I kneaded approximately 7 minutes in the
Kitchen Aid and

another

Quoted message said:

2-3 by hand. Could I be overdoing it and developing too
much gluten? Ot

not

Quoted message said:

enough gluten to support the rise?

Hydration - It did feel a little drier than it usually
does last time. The recipe calls for 2.5 to 3 C all
purpose, and I was at the low end of that. Would a wetter
dough help me get that lighter, chewier texture?

Proof time - Recipe calls for a first rise for 90 minutes,
divide into 4 balls (with minimal handling) and another 90
minute rise until doubled. I did as suggested, and it
seemed about doubled. I know slower proof times

can

Quoted message said:

improve flavor, but my best results have come using
these times.

Too many variables, and too little time to experiment a
lot. Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

If the dough felt dryer than usual, best to add some water.
Flour measurements in breadmaking are always variable,
depending on how much moisture the flour contains. You are
right about a wetter dough giving a chewy texture.

Don't worry about overkneading.

Good luck!

-Scott

"John N." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I make a lot of pizzas, and the last couple times I made
seem to have lost something in the crust. I'm hoping
someone here can help me identify the problem and suggest
a solution.

The pizza crust is (supposed to be) a Neapolitan style.
The proportions

are

Quoted message said:

1.25 C water, 2.5 C all purpose and 1 C cake flower and 1
tsp. yeast.

(This

Quoted message said:

recipe is from the book Pizza: Any Way You Slice It). At
it's best, the crust is very thin in the center, puffy
around the rim and has a nice,

chewy

Quoted message said:

texture and a great 'fresh bread' flavor (for lack of a
better term).

The last couple times it has come out too chewy, almost
hard or tough, not as puffy and without that nice flavor.
Here's some things that may be effecting it:

Yeast - I was always careful not to use too hot water.
Package was new and date was fine.

Kneading - I kneaded approximately 7 minutes in the
Kitchen Aid and

another

Quoted message said:

2-3 by hand. Could I be overdoing it and developing too
much gluten? Ot

not

Quoted message said:

enough gluten to support the rise?

Hydration - It did feel a little drier than it usually
does last time. The recipe calls for 2.5 to 3 C all
purpose, and I was at the low end of that. Would a wetter
dough help me get that lighter, chewier texture?

Proof time - Recipe calls for a first rise for 90 minutes,
divide into 4 balls (with minimal handling) and another 90
minute rise until doubled. I did as suggested, and it
seemed about doubled. I know slower proof times

can

Quoted message said:

improve flavor, but my best results have come using
these times.

Too many variables, and too little time to experiment a
lot. Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

If the dough felt dryer than usual, best to add some water.
Flour measurements in breadmaking are always variable,
depending on how much moisture the flour contains. You are
right about a wetter dough giving a chewy texture.

Don't worry about overkneading.

Good luck!

-Scott

Scott Taylor said:

If the dough felt dryer than usual, best to add
some water.

Good call, Scott! That's probably the answer. Flour &
water proportions vary according to the "feel" of the
dough. It's something most of us do, but don't
conscientiously think about.

Practice safe eating - always use condiments

"Scott Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If the dough felt dryer than usual, best to add some
water. Flour measurements in breadmaking are always
variable, depending on how much moisture the flour
contains. You are right about a wetter dough giving a
chewy texture.

Don't worry about overkneading.

Good luck!

-Scott

Thanks Scott and Richard. I think you both had points that
helped me out.

It was a drier than usual last time, and needed to be
wetter. I also think I paid a little too much attention to
the clock last time, and not enough to the dough, and did
it before it had a chance to rise enough. I did pizza this
weekend, changed those two things, and it came out great.
Used the lower amount of flour for a pretty wet dough, and
the rises were about a half hour to 45 minutes longer.
Almost two hours each. Nice chewy texture, puffy rim,
great flavor.