[censored] me off!

On Wed, 18 May 2005 at 11:58 GMT, Tamyka Bell (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

They slip up the side of traffic, but are not liable for a penalty for
overtaking on the left. They filter through traffic, but no one ever
stops them. Yet motorcycle riders get a hefty fine and demerit points if
they run up the side of stationary traffic.

I thought that case was legal for motorcyclists?

Quoted message said:

Motorists caught running a red light cop three demerit points and receive
a $135 fine. Pushbike riders only cop a $60 fine. That fine should be
higher, because surely a pushbike rider running a red light is more likely
to be seriously injured or killed in an intersection crash with a motor
vehicle.

"It's for your own protection".

Quoted message said:

Recent laws legislated against two-wheeled recreational vehicles from
using multi-lane roads and streets with speed limits greater than 60km/h,
but no such restrictions were placed on bicycles.

What are "two wheeled recreational vehicles" that aren't bikes?

--
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
We are no longer the knights who say "ni"
We are the knights who say "icky icky (Comet) Ikeya-Zhang zoooboing!"
--Lord Ender @ /.

Tamyka Bell said:

A friend of mine gave me this article from the Cars Guide because it
[censored] him off. It [censored] me off too. Shame there is just no point in
arguing with such uneducated tossers:

MY TORQUE

Is there one rule for motorists and another rule for pushbike riders?

You betcha. Pushbike riders seem to get away with quite a lot - and they
don't even pay rego.

The State Government spends millions of dollars building bikeways for
them, yet cyclists seem to prefer to use the roads.

They slip up the side of traffic, but are not liable for a penalty for
overtaking on the left. They filter through traffic, but no one ever
stops them. Yet motorcycle riders get a hefty fine and demerit points if
they run up the side of stationary traffic.

Motorists caught running a red light cop three demerit points and receive
a $135 fine. Pushbike riders only cop a $60 fine. That fine should be
higher, because surely a pushbike rider running a red light is more likely
to be seriously injured or killed in an intersection crash with a motor
vehicle.

And while police will happily book a motorist at the bottom of a hill for
speeding, how many times do they book cyclists?

If cyclists want to ride in the traffic, they should have to cop the same
penalties as motorists. They should also have to fit speedos; modern LCD
speedo pods are accurate, cheap and easy to fit.

Recent laws legislated against two-wheeled recreational vehicles from
using multi-lane roads and streets with speed limits greater than 60km/h,
but no such restrictions were placed on bicycles.

Mark Hinchliffe

Yawn. I'll consider it more seriously when this guy argues for helmet wearing in cars (he wants equality after all)

Ritch

ritcho said:

Yawn. I'll consider it more seriously when this guy argues for helmet wearing in cars (he wants equality after all)

Ritch

Exactly. I briefly thought about a point-by-point rebuttal, but whats the use? We're better off communicating directly to the media et al on positive cycling stuff rather than getting caught up with bigoted [censored] such as Mister Hinchliffe.

TimC said:

What are "two wheeled recreational vehicles" that aren't bikes?

Those mini-motorised skate boards type things.

My bicycle is a work vehicle. I've earnt $14.47c with it so far this
financial year {:-).

On Wed, 18 May 2005 at 13:04 GMT, Terry Collins (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

My bicycle is a work vehicle. I've earnt $14.47c with it so far this
financial year {:-).

That monobrow is looking kinda freaky 🙂

--
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
If I had encountered Bill Gates today, I would have shaken his hand,
said "hello", and stopped kicking as soon as there was nothing left
but a bloody stain on the floor. -- Shag

"Tamyka Bell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A friend of mine gave me this article from the Cars Guide because it [censored]
him off. It [censored] me off too. Shame there is just no point in arguing with
such uneducated tossers:

MY TORQUE

Is there one rule for motorists and another rule for pushbike riders?

In certain circumstances.

Quoted message said:

You betcha. Pushbike riders seem to get away with quite a lot - and they
don't even pay rego.

If they buy goods or work, they pay tax.

Quoted message said:

The State Government spends millions of dollars building bikeways for
them, yet cyclists seem to prefer to use the roads.

Well, cyclists vote. Cycling is much better for health and the environment
than cars.

Quoted message said:

They slip up the side of traffic, but are not liable for a penalty for
overtaking on the left. They filter through traffic, but no one ever
stops them. Yet motorcycle riders get a hefty fine and demerit points if
they run up the side of stationary traffic.

Cyclists are legally entitles to 'undertake'. Motocyclists can legally
overtake, but can be done for undertaking. Lane splitting is debatable.
Anyone is able to tavel along a road shoulder unless it is signed as an
emergency stopping lane.

Quoted message said:

Motorists caught running a red light cop three demerit points and receive
a $135 fine. Pushbike riders only cop a $60 fine. That fine should be
higher, because surely a pushbike rider running a red light is more likely
to be seriously injured or killed in an intersection crash with a motor
vehicle.

A motorsied vehicle is more likely to seriously injure or damage.

Quoted message said:

And while police will happily book a motorist at the bottom of a hill for
speeding, how many times do they book cyclists?

That is revenue raising Brack's sytle!

Quoted message said:

If cyclists want to ride in the traffic, they should have to cop the same
penalties as motorists.

Yes they should.

They should also have to fit speedos; modern LCD

Quoted message said:

speedo pods are accurate, cheap and easy to fit.

No they should not.

Quoted message said:

Recent laws legislated against two-wheeled recreational vehicles from
using multi-lane roads and streets with speed limits greater than 60km/h,
but no such restrictions were placed on bicycles.

Please cite the legal document you are referring to. Bicycles are used for
commuting, buisness and genral transport and are not restricted to
recreation. $wD's must be recreational only based on this logic.

Quoted message said:

Mark Hinchliffe

We shall burn your brdige down TROLL!!!!!

The P said:

"Tamyka Bell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A friend of mine gave me this article from the Cars Guide because it [censored]
him off. It [censored] me off too. Shame there is just no point in arguing with
such uneducated tossers:

MY TORQUE

Is there one rule for motorists and another rule for pushbike riders?

In certain circumstances.

Quoted message said:

You betcha. Pushbike riders seem to get away with quite a lot - and they
don't even pay rego.

If they buy goods or work, they pay tax.

Quoted message said:

The State Government spends millions of dollars building bikeways for
them, yet cyclists seem to prefer to use the roads.

Well, cyclists vote. Cycling is much better for health and the environment
than cars.

Quoted message said:

They slip up the side of traffic, but are not liable for a penalty for
overtaking on the left. They filter through traffic, but no one ever
stops them. Yet motorcycle riders get a hefty fine and demerit points if
they run up the side of stationary traffic.

Cyclists are legally entitles to 'undertake'. Motocyclists can legally
overtake, but can be done for undertaking. Lane splitting is debatable.
Anyone is able to tavel along a road shoulder unless it is signed as an
emergency stopping lane.

Quoted message said:

Motorists caught running a red light cop three demerit points and receive
a $135 fine. Pushbike riders only cop a $60 fine. That fine should be
higher, because surely a pushbike rider running a red light is more likely
to be seriously injured or killed in an intersection crash with a motor
vehicle.

It should be lower cos it should reflect the risk to other users not to
yourself. Accepting risk to yourself is everyones choice. Causing risk
to othere is at best arguably immoral.

The thing about lane splitting is that the only thing that will catch
you is a bike cop. And a bike cop is going to know if you were ok or
dodgy.

As far as I know no one has ever been killed lanesplitting in
australia. It is way low risk. Motorcyclists unlike almost all car
drivers know how wide the vehicle is

As an aside I was commuting down Heidelberg rd the other day in the bike
lane on the pushy.. and every second car driver had 2 wheels in the bike
lane. As I slowed down and yelled abuse at one a cyclist behind me gave
me a serve.. plently of room mate.. yeah like half the bike lane.. Then
I realised subconciously I need enough room for a motorbike 🙂

Dave

ritcho said:

Yawn. I'll consider it more seriously when this guy argues for helmet wearing in cars (he wants equality after all)

Ritch

touche!

and since when do we speed?
( oh yeah, BR's 😄)

TimC said:

Quoted message said:

They slip up the side of traffic, but are not liable for a penalty for
overtaking on the left. They filter through traffic, but no one ever
stops them. Yet motorcycle riders get a hefty fine and demerit points if
they run up the side of stationary traffic.

Quoted message said:

I thought that case was legal for motorcyclists?

It isn't. Never was actually, but considered a "grey area" when it comes to
actual policing.

Interesting thing is, in NSW, bicycles are legally allowed to pass
stationary traffic on the road. The OP was incorrect in his assumption that
bicycles were not allowed to do this. In NSW anyway.
--
Linux Registered User # 302622 <http://counter.li.org>

dave said:

As an aside I was commuting down Heidelberg rd the other day in the bike
lane on the pushy.. and every second car driver had 2 wheels in the bike
lane. As I slowed down and yelled abuse at one a cyclist behind me gave
me a serve.. plently of room mate.. yeah like half the bike lane.. Then
I realised subconciously I need enough room for a motorbike 🙂

You are absolutely legally entitled to occupy a lane on the road with your
bicycle. It's in the road rules, you're legally bound by them.

Use the privelage. I've found cars by far more more likely to overtake me
via the adjacent lane, rather than miss me by a bee's dongle by riding in the
centre rather than trying to be considerate to drivers by riding against the
gutter...

That said, nearly been taken out by a car at a roundabout last night, (and
after seeing my noticable objection) a second driver suggested I don't come so
close to cars next time.

Duh. Why didn't I think of that?
--
Linux Registered User # 302622 <http://counter.li.org>

John Tserkezis said:

dave said:

As an aside I was commuting down Heidelberg rd the other day in the
bike lane on the pushy.. and every second car driver had 2 wheels in
the bike lane. As I slowed down and yelled abuse at one a cyclist
behind me gave me a serve.. plently of room mate.. yeah like half the
bike lane.. Then I realised subconciously I need enough room for a
motorbike 🙂

You are absolutely legally entitled to occupy a lane on the road with
your bicycle. It's in the road rules, you're legally bound by them.

Use the privelage. I've found cars by far more more likely to overtake
me via the adjacent lane, rather than miss me by a bee's dongle by
riding in the centre rather than trying to be considerate to drivers by
riding against the gutter...

That said, nearly been taken out by a car at a roundabout last night,
(and after seeing my noticable objection) a second driver suggested I
don't come so close to cars next time.

Duh. Why didn't I think of that?

Oh I was happy enough in the bike lane.. just not so happy in half.
Half is actually enough room.. the other rider was right about that..
just not to me. I can jump in any car or truck and in a few hundred
metres have it wired as to dimensions.. but I just noticed that the
smallest unit of space I am really comfortable is motorcycle sided and
not pushbike sized. Interesting.

Yeah.. there comes a point where you have to punch the driver out. I
had a near miss in coburg years ago where on a wet road a car turned in
front of me.. on a motorcycle and while I was still desperatly braking
the Hiace van behind him went too. I missed his back bumper by so
little and slid thru the intersection, lost my temper and went around
the block to chase him.. (Too far thru the intersection to stop.)
COught him and he said.. ¨I dont care mate I have a bull bar¨ Do you
know it is actually possible to punch through a Hiace windscreen? Only
in good motorcycle gloves tho.

Dave

On Wed, 18 May 2005 21:58:03 +1000, Tamyka Bell <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

A friend of mine gave me this article from the Cars Guide because it
[censored] him off. It [censored] me off too. Shame there is just no point in
arguing with such uneducated tossers:

Not at all, some of his points are valid.

Quoted message said:

MY TORQUE

Is there one rule for motorists and another rule for pushbike riders?

You betcha. Pushbike riders seem to get away with quite a lot - and they
don't even pay rego.

The State Government spends millions of dollars building bikeways for
them, yet cyclists seem to prefer to use the roads.

I can understand why he may feel that way.

Quoted message said:

They slip up the side of traffic, but are not liable for a penalty for
overtaking on the left. They filter through traffic, but no one ever
stops them. Yet motorcycle riders get a hefty fine and demerit points if
they run up the side of stationary traffic.

The rule for motorbikes & bicycles should be consistant. I
ride a motorbike too (and don't own a car!)

Quoted message said:

Motorists caught running a red light cop three demerit points and receive
a $135 fine. Pushbike riders only cop a $60 fine. That fine should be
higher, because surely a pushbike rider running a red light is more likely
to be seriously injured or killed in an intersection crash with a motor
vehicle.

Agreed re parity, disagree re consequences, but the rebuttal is
obvious 🙂

Quoted message said:

And while police will happily book a motorist at the bottom of a hill for
speeding, how many times do they book cyclists?

Rarely if ever, but it'd be fair enough if they did.

Quoted message said:

If cyclists want to ride in the traffic, they should have to cop the same
penalties as motorists. They should also have to fit speedos; modern LCD
speedo pods are accurate, cheap and easy to fit.

Agreed.

dave said:

Do you
know it is actually possible to punch through a Hiace windscreen? Only
in good motorcycle gloves tho.

Dave

cough, you can do it with barehands, cough, if you know which, cough, spot to hit, apparently... 🙄

flyingdutch <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

and since when do we speed?

What's the law on this in Australia? In know in the UK a cyclist cannot be
done for exceeding the speed limit as speed limits do not apply to bikes
(although there is a law concerning "furious cycling/pedaling" or some such
vagueness). Do speed limits apply to bikes over here?

GRaeme

flyingdutch <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

cough, you can do it with barehands, cough, if you know which, cough,
spot to hit, apparently... 🙄

An elbow through the side window has been know to work too...

flyingdutch said:

dave said:

Do you
know it is actually possible to punch through a Hiace windscreen? Only
in good motorcycle gloves tho.

Dave

cough, you can do it with barehands, cough, if you know which, cough,
spot to hit, apparently... 🙄

Maybe if you are Chuck Norris. I was as impressed as hell when it
disintigrated

CUt to Dave standing alongside Hiace.. ¨Cmon mate get out, see how
tough you are on your feet, Hey I can punch holes in your truck.. what
am I gunna do to you? ¨

Dont tell me its not impressive.. I was impressed and thats the person
whos opinion I value most 🙂

Dave

Graeme said:

flyingdutch <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

cough, you can do it with barehands, cough, if you know which, cough,
spot to hit, apparently... 🙄

An elbow through the side window has been know to work too...

Oh everyone knows that.. Well every ex courier anyway.. THe windscreen
is much more impressive..

Wanna hear the sequel to this story? It involves a side window..

flyingdutch said:

cough, you can do it with barehands, cough, if you know which, cough, spot to hit, apparently... 🙄

Why do you want to smash the windscreen? Had someone already ripped both the mirrors off? 😎

SteveA

So should we be asking joggers to fit speedos too?
running to fast along a share path?
The reason so many cyclists use the road is because they are allowed to and not all cyclists are the same, just like vehicles.

The vast majority of cyclists do pay rego, but its on the vehicle sitting at home in the driveway not wearing out the raods, polluting, killng, contribuitng to our biggest expenditure ie health.
Expenditure on offroad paths is a pittance if you compare $ vs trips
(ie $ vs car trips is heavily overfunded in comparison)

blah blah

F"preachin to the (mainly) converted"Dutch