Ping: Pastorio

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

Pastorio,

Do you know of any good references that talk about stressing an animal
too much ruining it's meat? We are having a discussion on another list
about why it's a bad idea to hunt deer using dogs... I tried googling it
but could not find anything definitive.

"Unfortunately, venison has an unfortunate reputation for being tough
and over strong. This reputation is primarily based on poor hunting
skills: if the animal is not killed on the first shot, the more stress
it is under, and the more adrenalin it releases into its tissue.
Adrenalin causes the meat to become leathery and otherwise inedible (at
some point, the meat should only be used for sausage). Also, meat from
older (i.e. "prize" animals) tends to be much tougher."
<http://tinyurl.com/czh3n>

A lengthy exchange about game and what happens. It disputes the above,
sorta. Better science.
<http://yarchive.net/food/game_flavor.html>

Pastorio

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

Pastorio,

Do you know of any good references that talk about stressing an animal
too much ruining it's meat? We are having a discussion on another list
about why it's a bad idea to hunt deer using dogs... I tried googling it
but could not find anything definitive.

"Unfortunately, venison has an unfortunate reputation for being tough
and over strong. This reputation is primarily based on poor hunting
skills: if the animal is not killed on the first shot, the more stress
it is under, and the more adrenalin it releases into its tissue.
Adrenalin causes the meat to become leathery and otherwise inedible (at
some point, the meat should only be used for sausage). Also, meat from
older (i.e. "prize" animals) tends to be much tougher."
<http://tinyurl.com/czh3n>

A lengthy exchange about game and what happens. It disputes the above,
sorta. Better science.
<http://yarchive.net/food/game_flavor.html>

Pastorio

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bob (this one) said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

Pastorio,

Do you know of any good references that talk about stressing an animal
too much ruining it's meat? We are having a discussion on another list
about why it's a bad idea to hunt deer using dogs... I tried googling it
but could not find anything definitive.

"Unfortunately, venison has an unfortunate reputation for being tough
and over strong. This reputation is primarily based on poor hunting
skills: if the animal is not killed on the first shot, the more stress
it is under, and the more adrenalin it releases into its tissue.
Adrenalin causes the meat to become leathery and otherwise inedible (at
some point, the meat should only be used for sausage). Also, meat from
older (i.e. "prize" animals) tends to be much tougher."
<http://tinyurl.com/czh3n>

A lengthy exchange about game and what happens. It disputes the above,
sorta. Better science.
<http://yarchive.net/food/game_flavor.html>

Pastorio

Beautiful... :-)

Thanks!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Pastorio,

Do you know of any good references that talk about stressing an animal
too much ruining it's meat? We are having a discussion on another list
about why it's a bad idea to hunt deer using dogs... I tried googling it
but could not find anything definitive.

Cheers!

I don't know if this is find-able, still: Months and months ago somebody
on misc.rural posted a link to a site of the Australian ministry for
agriculture (I think, or maybe it was their meat exporters' umbrella
organisation) about what makes meat tough, what makes it taste good,
what makes meat tender. It was certainly interesting reading. You may be
able to find it with an advanced search on google groups. One
interesting thing I picked up from there about beef was that apparently
the Brahmin gene is detrimental to good beef flavour and they need to
work hard to counteract that.

I've learned one or two things about [non]tough meat:
Stress is bad. The guy who does the in-the-paddock killing and prepping
for us tells me he can tell by the colour of the blood straight away if
the animal was stressed and is going to be tough. (a lighter shade w.
formyness indicates stress i.i.r.c. whereas dark still blood is a good
omen <sheesh, I hope I remember this right>😉.

Hanging the meat into the chiller before the carcasse has cooled off is
BAD. The muscle fibres contract and the meat goes rubbery and tough.
The abatoirs get around this by running electric current through the
carcasse to relax all muscle fibres so they can put the meat into cool
storage straight after the kill. But if you do your own, leave it
hanging outside until the meat is relaxed and [cold to the touch].

Not leaving it in the chiller long enough is also bad. I like to have my
meat hang in the chiller for a couple of weeks before butchering and
freeing. Some people will go further than that.

-Peter

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

Peter Huebner said:

I like to have my meat hang in the chiller for a couple of weeks.

-Petunia

Hmm, perhaps you need a name change. hehe

Sheldon

In article <[email hidden]>,

Peter Huebner said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Pastorio,

Do you know of any good references that talk about stressing an animal
too much ruining it's meat? We are having a discussion on another list
about why it's a bad idea to hunt deer using dogs... I tried googling it
but could not find anything definitive.

Cheers!

I don't know if this is find-able, still: Months and months ago somebody
on misc.rural posted a link to a site of the Australian ministry for
agriculture (I think, or maybe it was their meat exporters' umbrella
organisation) about what makes meat tough, what makes it taste good,
what makes meat tender. It was certainly interesting reading. You may be
able to find it with an advanced search on google groups. One
interesting thing I picked up from there about beef was that apparently
the Brahmin gene is detrimental to good beef flavour and they need to
work hard to counteract that.

I've learned one or two things about [non]tough meat:
Stress is bad. The guy who does the in-the-paddock killing and prepping
for us tells me he can tell by the colour of the blood straight away if
the animal was stressed and is going to be tough. (a lighter shade w.
formyness indicates stress i.i.r.c. whereas dark still blood is a good
omen <sheesh, I hope I remember this right>😉.

Hanging the meat into the chiller before the carcasse has cooled off is
BAD. The muscle fibres contract and the meat goes rubbery and tough.
The abatoirs get around this by running electric current through the
carcasse to relax all muscle fibres so they can put the meat into cool
storage straight after the kill. But if you do your own, leave it
hanging outside until the meat is relaxed and [cold to the touch].

Not leaving it in the chiller long enough is also bad. I like to have my
meat hang in the chiller for a couple of weeks before butchering and
freeing. Some people will go further than that.

-Peter

Thanks!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Peter Huebner said:

I like to have my meat hang in the chiller for a couple of weeks.

-Petunia

Hmm, perhaps you need a name change. hehe

Sheldon

Oh you little tease, you <dismissively flicks limp wrist in the general
direction of Sheldon and exits stage left>

-P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Peter Huebner <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The abatoirs get around this by running electric current through the
carcasse to relax all muscle fibres so they can put the meat into cool
storage straight after the kill. But if you do your own, leave it
hanging outside until the meat is relaxed and [cold to the touch].

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

-Peter

Peter could you tell me what type of electric current, and voltage,
ect.
If this could be done on a regular basis, with say a cattle prod, it
might help.

Pan Ohco

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Peter Huebner <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The abatoirs get around this by running electric current through the
carcasse to relax all muscle fibres so they can put the meat into cool
storage straight after the kill. But if you do your own, leave it
hanging outside until the meat is relaxed and [cold to the touch].

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

-Peter

Peter could you tell me what type of electric current, and voltage,
ect.
If this could be done on a regular basis, with say a cattle prod, it
might help.

Pan Ohco

No, a cattle prod would not have anywhere near enough energy for what
those guys are doing, as I understand it. I haven't actually seen it
done, I just know about it because as a day job I raise around 160 grass
fed beef cattle annually on 750 acres. Obviously I pick up bits and
pieces of info about the meat industry :-)

However, I found a link quite easily by googling for 'electric
stimulation to tenderize meat' and this is one comprehensive summary:

http://www.naturalhub.com/buy_food_meat_tenderness.htm

which also contains a link (near the bottom) to a pdf document about
electric stimulation:

http://savell-j.tamu.edu/pdf/es.pdf which is another comprehensive
summary but I didn't actually see any technical details w.r.t. voltage
and current, sorry.

h.t.h. -Peter

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

Peter Huebner said:

However, I found a link quite easily by googling for 'electric
stimulation to tenderize meat' and this is one comprehensive summary:

http://www.naturalhub.com/buy_food_meat_tenderness.htm

which also contains a link (near the bottom) to a pdf document about
electric stimulation:

http://savell-j.tamu.edu/pdf/es.pdf which is another comprehensive
summary but I didn't actually see any technical details w.r.t. voltage
and current, sorry.

h.t.h. -Peter

Thanks for the infomation Peter

Pan Ohco