Ping: [email protected]

"AL Capone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:2004041114373427544%mofia@adelphianet...

Quoted message said:

Why are you in this group? Sounds like you have done allot
of research. Have you thought about becoming a vegan? I
bet you have, but don't have the will power or commitment
to stick with it. You are envious of the people in this
group. None can save the world. Society has determined
animals are disposable.

=================
Hey, what a coincidence, so have you. You prove with each
inane post that animals are really of no concern to you.

Quoted message said:

Each of us can only do our part.

=================
All you(vegans) do is follow a simple rule for your simple
mind. No research has gone into your choices, you make them
based only on your rule.

Quoted message said:

Besides, not everyone here decides not to eat meat for the
same reasons. For some it is a dietary choice only.

================
Then they are not vegan.

Quoted message said:

If you can't offer support, don't discourage.

=================
They need the discouragment first to encourage them to try
to follow what they say their 'ethics' are. As it is, they
just pretend to care without ever really measuring their
impact. Once they learn the truth of their ignorance and
hypocrisy, maybe some of them will make better choices. Most
won't because, afterall, it's not really about caring for
animals, but just trying to make themselves feel good at the
animals expense.

Quoted message said:

--
AL Capone Amusing a MOB

"rick etter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"AL Capone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:2004041114373427544%mofia@adelphianet...

Quoted message said:

Why are you in this group? Sounds like you have done
allot of research. Have you thought about becoming a
vegan? I bet you have, but don't have the will power or
commitment to stick with it. You are envious of the
people in this group. None can save the world. Society
has determined animals are disposable.

=================
Hey, what a coincidence, so have you. You prove with each
inane post that animals are really of no concern to you.

Quoted message said:

Each of us can only do our part.

=================
All you(vegans) do is follow a simple rule for your simple
mind. No research has gone into your choices, you make
them based only on your rule.

Quoted message said:

Besides, not everyone here decides not to eat meat for
the same reasons. For some it is a dietary choice only.

================
Then they are not vegan.

Quoted message said:

If you can't offer support, don't discourage.

=================
They need the discouragment first to encourage them to try
to follow what they say their 'ethics' are. As it is, they
just pretend to care without ever really measuring their
impact. Once they learn the truth of their ignorance and
hypocrisy, maybe some of them will make better choices.
Most won't because, afterall, it's not really about caring
for animals, but just trying to make themselves feel good
at the animals expense.

Quoted message said:

--
AL Capone Amusing a MOB

Excuse my dear friend etter. His brain is nearly completely
consumed by prions.

He is also a field mouse genius.

.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Besides, not everyone here decides not to eat meat for the
same reasons. For some it is a dietary choice only.

================
Then they are not vegan.

Quoted message said:

If you can't offer support, don't discourage.

=================
They need the discouragment first to encourage them to try
to follow what they say their 'ethics' are. As it is, they
just pretend to care without ever really measuring their
impact. Once they learn the truth of their ignorance and
hypocrisy, maybe some of them will make better choices.
Most won't because, afterall, it's not really about caring
for animals, but just trying to make themselves feel good
at the animals expense.

It's been a long time since I have bothered replying to one
of your great trolls, but here you go:

I think that a fundamental problem here is that your
definition (Rick) of vegan is just plain wrong. A vegan is
someone who does not eat any animal products, and who often
avoids wearing animal products. Look at the Google
definitions: google.comsearchOpen ↗

Out of the 9 or so definitions offered there, not one of
them talks about ethics. In fact, many of them mention vegan
as synonymous with "strict vegetarian".

I am vegan for many reasons:
* The first is for health (I am lactose intolerant, I am
genetically at risk for heart disease and high blood
pressure, though I don't suffer from either of them, and
I don't feel good when I eat meat).
* The second is for cost. My budget would have a hard time
eating both organic, locally grown fruits and veggies
/and/ organic meats. Since meat is the most expensive
thing there, it is also the easiest to do without, it is
the logical choice to get rid of.
* The third is for ethical reasons, most eggs around here
are battery, and even my completly omnivorous wife
avoids them as much as possible.

It has been 14 years since I stopped eating meat.

The ethics of it are lower down on my list of reasons "why",
and mostly explain why I also don't wear leather.

does that make me any less vegan? I don't think so. I was
veg*ian for health reasons first and foremost.

Now, if you notice the name of the newsgroup, it also says
nothing about ethics. This is a forum for the discussion of
vegan food. If I wanted to discuss ethics, I would hang out
in one of the AR groups.

Cheers,

Blue

On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:07:03 GMT, "rick etter" <[email hidden]> wrote:

I don't know what thread this came from. For some reason
I'm not getting some of the posts lately.

Quoted message said:

"AL Capone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:2004041114373427544%mofia@adelphianet...

Quoted message said:

Why are you in this group? Sounds like you have done
allot of research. Have you thought about becoming a
vegan? I bet you have, but don't have the will power or
commitment to stick with it. You are envious of the
people in this group.

No. I would MUCH! rather see people contribute to decent
lives for farm animals than to none at all. You
vegans/"ARAs" would not.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

None can save the world. Society has determined animals
are disposable.

· Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use
of wood and paper products, and roads and all types of
buildings, and by their own diet just as everyone else
does. What vegans try to avoid are products which provide
life (and death) for farm animals . . .

Quoted message said:

=================
Hey, what a coincidence, so have you. You prove with each
inane post that animals are really of no concern to you.

Quoted message said:

Each of us can only do our part.

=================
All you(vegans) do is follow a simple rule for your simple
mind. No research has gone into your choices, you make them
based only on your rule.

I believe that's due to a part of human nature, though
it doesn't excuse it. At some point people make a choice
about such matters, and from there it's human nature to
want to defend that choice so they don't have to admit,
even to themselves, that it may not have been the best
one they could have made.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Besides, not everyone here decides not to eat meat for
the same reasons. For some it is a dietary choice only.

================
Then they are not vegan.

Quoted message said:

If you can't offer support, don't discourage.

=================
They need the discouragment first to encourage them to try
to follow what they say their 'ethics' are.

The problem with it is it puts them on the defensive,
which causes them to want to support the choice they
made that much more...the whole thing comes down to a
great aversion to admitting they may be wrong--"they"
being "we" as human beings. It is called cognitive
dissonance. I'll post an explanation which uses a
different though similar example, including the URL in
case anyone would like to check it out, but omitting
some of the specifics in a (most probably futile)
attempt to discourage the victims from using them as
another way of indulging their disorder.
_________________________________________________________
[···] A disconfirmation of a predicted event should
presumably lead one to abandon the beliefs that produced the
prediction. But cognitive dissonance theory says otherwise.
By abandoning the beliefs . . . the person who had once held
this belief would have to accept a painful dissonance
between her present skepticism and her past beliefs and
actions. Her prior faith would now appear extemely foolish.
. . Under the new circumstances, the dissonance was
intolerable. It was reduced by a belief in the new message
which bolstered the original belief. Since other members of
the sect stood fast long with them, their conviction was
stengthened all the more. They could now think of
themselves, not as fools, but as loyal, steadfast members of
a courageous little band whose faith . . . [...]
caic.org.aucogdiss2.htmOpen ↗
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Quoted message said:

As it is, they just pretend to care without ever really
measuring their impact. Once they learn the truth of their
ignorance and hypocrisy, maybe some of them will make
better choices. Most won't because, afterall, it's not
really about caring for animals, but just trying to make
themselves feel good at the animals expense.

I believe you're on the right track with that. My
belief is that once they have chosen the idea that
veg*nism is the most ethical choice people can make,
they will promote the idea regardless of its impact on
animals. That is, *completely regardless!!* of its
impact on animals.

"Ron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"rick etter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>-
...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"AL Capone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:2004041114373427544%mofia@adelphianet...

Quoted message said:

Why are you in this group? Sounds like you have done
allot of

research.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Have you thought about becoming a vegan? I bet you
have, but don't

have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the will power or commitment to stick with it. You are
envious of the people in this group. None can save the
world. Society has determined animals are

disposable.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

=================
Hey, what a coincidence, so have you. You prove with
each inane post

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

animals are really of no concern to you.

Quoted message said:

Each of us can only do our part.

=================
All you(vegans) do is follow a simple rule for your
simple mind. No research has gone into your choices, you
make them based only on your

rule.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Besides, not everyone here decides not to eat meat for
the same reasons. For some it is a dietary choice
only.

================
Then they are not vegan.

Quoted message said:

If you can't offer support, don't discourage.

=================
They need the discouragment first to encourage them to
try to follow

what

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they say their 'ethics' are. As it is, they just pretend
to care

without

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ever really measuring their impact. Once they learn the
truth of their ignorance and hypocrisy, maybe some of
them will make better choices.

Most

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

won't because, afterall, it's not really about caring
for animals, but

just

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

trying to make themselves feel good at the animals
expense.

Quoted message said:

--
AL Capone Amusing a MOB

Excuse my dear friend etter. His brain is nearly
completely consumed by

prions.
====================
LOL At least I have one fool. Why have you banned yours?

Quoted message said:

He is also a field mouse genius.

======================
Atleast I know something about what I write, you on the
other hand.....

Quoted message said:

.

"BlueHeron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Besides, not everyone here decides not to eat meat for
the same
reasons. For some it is a dietary choice only.

================
Then they are not vegan.

Quoted message said:

If you can't offer support, don't discourage.

=================
They need the discouragment first to encourage them to
try to follow

what

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they say their 'ethics' are. As it is, they just pretend
to care

without

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ever really measuring their impact. Once they learn the
truth of their ignorance and hypocrisy, maybe some of
them will make better choices.

Most

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

won't because, afterall, it's not really about caring
for animals, but

just

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

trying to make themselves feel good at the animals
expense.

It's been a long time since I have bothered replying to
one of your great trolls, but here you go:

=========================
I don't troll fool. Just because you are too stupid to see
the truth doesn't make anyone telling it a troll... All it
means to you is someone *you* disagree with...

Quoted message said:

I think that a fundamental problem here is that your
definition (Rick) of vegan is just plain wrong. A vegan is
someone who does not eat any animal products, and who
often avoids wearing animal products. Look at the Google
definitions: google.comsearchOpen ↗

====================
No, my definition is from the guy who made UP the word,
stupid, Donald Watson. It is ultimately not about diet. It's
a lifestyle, a religion. "...Veganism is a way of living
which excludes all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to,
the animal kingdom, and includes a reverence for life. It
applies to the practice of living on the products of the
plant kingdom to the exclusion of flesh, fish, fowl, eggs,
honey, animal milk and its derivatives, and encourages the
use of alternatives for all commodities derived wholly or in
part from animals..."

You can twist it any way you want, but the fact remains that
this IS the definition. That there are people like you, that
are too lazy and conveninece oriented to live by the real
definition, doesn't mean that you can change it to fit your
ignorance and delusions.

Quoted message said:

Out of the 9 or so definitions offered there, not one of
them talks about ethics. In fact, many of them mention
vegan as synonymous with "strict vegetarian".

======================
Because they are re-written by ignorant fools like you that
don't want to live by the real definition because your
convenince, not animals, comes first and formost to you.

Quoted message said:

I am vegan for many reasons:
* The first is for health (I am lactose intolerant, I am
genetically at risk for heart disease and high blood
pressure, though I don't suffer from either of them,
and I don't feel good when I eat meat).

=====================
Health isn't a 'veagn' reason...

Quoted message said:

* The second is for cost. My budget would have a hard
time eating both organic, locally grown fruits and
veggies /and/ organic meats. Since meat is the most
expensive thing there, it is also the easiest to do
without, it is the logical choice to get rid of.

==================
Then you followed only your simple rule for your simple
mind, eat no meat. Because you can get meat cheaper if you
really look. The grass fed beef I eat has no hormones, no
antibiotics, and no feed. On top of that, it's cheaper than
any I could buy anywhere else. The last one came out at
about 800 lbs and cost just under $500.

Quoted message said:

* The third is for ethical reasons, most eggs around here
are battery,
and even my completly omnivorous wife avoids them as much
as possible.

========================
This is the "only" vegan reason you've given, yet it's far
too easy to show your 'ethics' are as false as your vegan
definitions...

Quoted message said:

It has been 14 years since I stopped eating meat.

The ethics of it are lower down on my list of reasons
"why", and mostly explain why I also don't wear leather.

==================
Then for the most part, you are not vegan. Why pretend?

Quoted message said:

does that make me any less vegan? I don't think so. I was
veg*ian for health reasons first and foremost.

=================
No, you were not. You were vegetarian for health reasons,
not vegan. I suggest you learn a little about your religion
before you display any more of your stupidity.

Quoted message said:

Now, if you notice the name of the newsgroup, it also says
nothing about ethics. This is a forum for the discussion
of vegan food. If I wanted to discuss ethics, I would hang
out in one of the AR groups.

====================
Nope. Look at the original posts creating the group, it was
not limitedto recipies. But then, since you're too stupid to
even know the meaning of vegan, I doubt you know how to
check newsgroup posts...

Quoted message said:

Cheers,

Blue