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PH: Curious ice sculpture

Started by John Laird · · Last activity · 18 posts · 729 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
17 November 2004
Last activity
18 November 2004
Original author
John Laird
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  1. Spotted on Saturday morning in the middle of a stream bed. There was
    nothing above this, and the focus of attention is about 4" high:
    http://www.laird-towers.org.uk/pics/walks/ice1.jpg
    and a closer view:
    http://www.laird-towers.org.uk/pics/walks/ice2.jpg

    I have my own theory as to how this formed, but am curious to see if others
    have their own ideas, or have seen something similar.

    Of course, it could be I was not on this planet, as this shot might suggest:
    http://www.laird-towers.org.uk/pics/walks/landscape2.jpg

    ;-)

    --
    No you can't call 911 NOW, I'm downloading my mail!

    Mail john rather than nospam...

  2. John Laird said:

    Spotted on Saturday morning in the middle of a stream bed. There was
    nothing above this, and the focus of attention is about 4" high:
    http://www.laird-towers.org.uk/pics/walks/ice1.jpg
    and a closer view:
    http://www.laird-towers.org.uk/pics/walks/ice2.jpg

    I have my own theory as to how this formed, but am curious to see if others
    have their own ideas, or have seen something similar.

    Of course, it could be I was not on this planet, as this shot might suggest:
    http://www.laird-towers.org.uk/pics/walks/landscape2.jpg

    Strictly speaking this is not a photography thread. There is no
    mention of the make of camera the exposure or PS tweaks.

    What it is is a general interest question about ice formations.

    Or are you trying to prove a point?

    As for the blade, I've no idea how it formed.
    --
    Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

  3. On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:51:19 +0000, John Laird

    Strange name for a pub!
    --
    R
    o
    o
    n
    e
    y

  4. Rooney <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:51:19 +0000, John Laird

    Strange name for a pub!

    Ha ha ha! Some confusion here.
    I suggest that to save the problems caused by the obsession with
    photography the photographers bugger off to uk.rec.photography and the
    rest of us either go for a walk, go to the pub or go to the gear shop.
    --
    Gordon

  5. On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:45:48 +0000, Gordon <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Strange name for a pub!

    Ha ha ha! Some confusion here.
    I suggest that to save the problems caused by the obsession with
    photography the photographers bugger off to uk.rec.photography and the
    rest of us either go for a walk, go to the pub or go to the gear shop.

    <whisper>
    The gear shop... (and then the pub)
    </whisper>

    :-)

    Best wishes,
    --
    ,,
    (**)PeeWiglet~~
    / \ / \

  6. Had Andy Goldsworthy been around??!!
    Julie

  7. On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:45:48 +0000, Gordon <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Rooney <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:51:19 +0000, John Laird

    Strange name for a pub!

    Ha ha ha! Some confusion here.
    I suggest that to save the problems caused by the obsession with
    photography the photographers bugger off to uk.rec.photography and the
    rest of us either go for a walk, go to the pub or go to the gear shop.

    Too right. Pubs are an integral part of walking, which is why they are
    shown on OS maps, innit?

    Gear is good fun, undoubtedly.

    Snaps are nice to look back at and share - all the rest of the
    photography stuff is train-spotting.
    --
    R
    o
    o
    n
    e
    y

  8. Peewiglet <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:45:48 +0000, Gordon <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Strange name for a pub!

    Ha ha ha! Some confusion here.
    I suggest that to save the problems caused by the obsession with
    photography the photographers bugger off to uk.rec.photography and the
    rest of us either go for a walk, go to the pub or go to the gear shop.

    <whisper>
    The gear shop... (and then the pub)
    </whisper>

    :-)


    <G>
    --
    Gordon

  9. In article <[email hidden]>, Gordon
    <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    the
    rest of us either go for a walk, go to the pub or go to the gear shop.

    Where are we going then Mr Suggestions? PW can do the gear shop but the
    walk n pub sounds great, esp. if you are driving ;-)

    --

    Dominic Sexton
    http://www.dscs.demon.co.uk/

  10. Dominic Sexton <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Gordon
    <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    the
    rest of us either go for a walk, go to the pub or go to the gear shop.

    Where are we going then Mr Suggestions? PW can do the gear shop but the
    walk n pub sounds great, esp. if you are driving ;-)


    I saw you pass by on your recent 34 mile 'walk'. ;-)
    I you walk backwards maybe I could keep up with you....
    --
    Gordon

  11. On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:51:19 +0000, John Laird <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    | Spotted on Saturday morning in the middle of a stream bed. There was
    | nothing above this, and the focus of attention is about 4" high:
    | http://www.laird-towers.org.uk/pics/walks/ice1.jpg
    | and a closer view:
    | http://www.laird-towers.org.uk/pics/walks/ice2.jpg

    Why not send it to the New Scientist "The last word", inside the back
    cover. People ask questions about everyday scientific phenomena, an world
    experts reply. They love water/ice questions with *photos*. I have
    checked and they do not seam to have answered this one.

    --
    Dave F

  12. See this article from New Scientist:
    http://www.newscientist.com/lastword/article.jsp?id=lw747

    The ones in the photo are very thin, but the article also discusses
    tall ice columns growing out of milk bottles etc. It looks like your
    "ice blade" grew out of a puddle, so there must have been a hole in
    the ice over the puddle which then "oozed" water out as the puddle
    below froze.

  13. John Laird <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Spotted on Saturday morning in the middle of a stream bed. There was
    nothing above this, and the focus of attention is about 4" high:
    http://www.laird-towers.org.uk/pics/walks/ice1.jpg
    and a closer view:
    http://www.laird-towers.org.uk/pics/walks/ice2.jpg

    I have my own theory as to how this formed, but am curious to see if others
    have their own ideas, or have seen something similar.

    Further to my last post, this page has a better explanation of this
    particular phenomenon:
    http://www.newscientist.com/lastword/article.jsp?id=lw243

    "Under favourable meteorological conditions an almost uniform ice
    sheet may develop. In small, usually circular, containers, once the
    edges are frozen and fixed in place under these conditions, expansion
    pressure from the phase change builds up beneath the ice surface as
    more of the water freezes.

    If a small crack develops to relieve this pressure, unfrozen water
    from beneath the ice sheet can be forced through the resulting hole.
    The exterior surface will freeze quickly as it emerges through the
    ice, but if there is enough unfrozen water in the vessel and the
    temperature does not fall too quickly and cause the entire contents to
    be frozen rapidly, the process may continue to produce an icicle tower
    extruding upwards or outwards from the original crack or hole.

    The shape and degree to which the tower leans appear to depend upon
    the shape of the crack. Round or triangular shapes are the most
    common. They have been observed to reach 20 centimetres in length. A
    steady freezing wind has been observed to produce horizontal icicle
    towers and, in one case in New Zealand in July 1991, even a helical
    icicle with eight complete turns."

    The "vessel" in this case would be the puddle on the ground.

    I'll leave it to others to return the topic to walking 😉

  14. On 18 Nov 2004 06:30:39 -0800, [email hidden] (Rob Kingston)
    wrote:

    <facinating stuff unsnipped>

    Quoted message said:

    Further to my last post, this page has a better explanation of this
    particular phenomenon:
    http://www.newscientist.com/lastword/article.jsp?id=lw243

    "Under favourable meteorological conditions an almost uniform ice
    sheet may develop. In small, usually circular, containers, once the
    edges are frozen and fixed in place under these conditions, expansion
    pressure from the phase change builds up beneath the ice surface as
    more of the water freezes.

    If a small crack develops to relieve this pressure, unfrozen water
    from beneath the ice sheet can be forced through the resulting hole.
    The exterior surface will freeze quickly as it emerges through the
    ice, but if there is enough unfrozen water in the vessel and the
    temperature does not fall too quickly and cause the entire contents to
    be frozen rapidly, the process may continue to produce an icicle tower
    extruding upwards or outwards from the original crack or hole.

    The shape and degree to which the tower leans appear to depend upon
    the shape of the crack. Round or triangular shapes are the most
    common. They have been observed to reach 20 centimetres in length. A
    steady freezing wind has been observed to produce horizontal icicle
    towers and, in one case in New Zealand in July 1991, even a helical
    icicle with eight complete turns."

    The "vessel" in this case would be the puddle on the ground.

    I'll leave it to others to return the topic to walking 😉

    Amazing! Thanks v. much indeed for posting that explanation!

    Best wishes,
    --
    ,,
    (**)PeeWiglet~~
    / \ / \

  15. Dave Fawthrop said:

    On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:51:19 +0000, John Laird <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    | Spotted on Saturday morning in the middle of a stream bed. There was
    | nothing above this, and the focus of attention is about 4" high:
    | http://www.laird-towers.org.uk/pics/walks/ice1.jpg
    | and a closer view:
    | http://www.laird-towers.org.uk/pics/walks/ice2.jpg

    Why not send it to the New Scientist "The last word", inside the back
    cover. People ask questions about everyday scientific phenomena, an world
    experts reply. They love water/ice questions with *photos*. I have
    checked and they do not seam to have answered this one.

    There's an idea. Thanks.

    --
    If thine enemy offend thee, giveth his child a drum.

    Mail john rather than nospam...

  16. (Rob Kingston) said:

    See this article from New Scientist:
    http://www.newscientist.com/lastword/article.jsp?id=lw747

    Quoted message said:

    The ones in the photo are very thin, but the article also discusses
    tall ice columns growing out of milk bottles etc. It looks like your
    "ice blade" grew out of a puddle, so there must have been a hole in
    the ice over the puddle which then "oozed" water out as the puddle
    below froze.

    Rather as a volcano cone is formed from erupting lava. The outsides
    froze leaving an inner pipe of reducing diameter which climbed up. The
    textured bubbles or cracks in the ice show the history of this
    happening in layers sloping down from the centre.
    --
    Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

  17. (Rob Kingston) said:

    John Laird <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Spotted on Saturday morning in the middle of a stream bed. There was
    nothing above this, and the focus of attention is about 4" high:
    http://www.laird-towers.org.uk/pics/walks/ice1.jpg
    and a closer view:
    http://www.laird-towers.org.uk/pics/walks/ice2.jpg

    I have my own theory as to how this formed, but am curious to see if others
    have their own ideas, or have seen something similar.

    Further to my last post, this page has a better explanation of this
    particular phenomenon:
    http://www.newscientist.com/lastword/article.jsp?id=lw243
    (snip)

    Interesting. Something I (fiendishly) did not mention was that the small
    tower was not wholly ice. There was in fact a stalk of grass in the middle
    (and you can see others embedded in the ice around it). I had a few
    theories, one being that the puddle had frozen across the surface but not
    around the grass, allowing water to be forced up around the stalk as the ice
    expanded. Such things have been seen in ice-cube trays, apparently, if a
    small hole on the ice surface is left open. However, in relation to the
    size of the puddle, the small ice tower is quite large and also very smooth.
    I then thought perhaps there was some kind of capillary action going on, but
    I figured the whole thing would freeze solid at an early stage. That left
    me considering whether the effect was in fact due to condensation - the
    grass picked up moisture from the air which then froze. This could continue
    ad infinutum provided moist air was still being blown past. I would be at a
    bit of a loss to explain why you might not find many solitary blades of
    grass so encrusted, but this was on a sheet of gritstone with almost no
    vegetation around. The stream bed would be depressed from the surrounding
    vegetation, permitting lower temperatures to form. And there was running
    water nearby to increase the humidity.

    Well, I thought it was interesting anyway. I "apologise" to the thread
    police for the poor choice of subject title.

    [Also spotted in the gorge was a boulder almost entirely encrusted in about
    1/2" of clear ice, on which were some lovely "boils", no doubt the product
    of water splashing onto ice and freezing. However it was all I could do to
    use the boulder to navigate across sheets of ice without going a over t.
    Couldn't get close enough with my camera for that one.]

    Quoted message said:

    I'll leave it to others to return the topic to walking 😉

    I don't know about you, but I've been putting one foot in front of the other
    since I was about 10 months old. I sort of take it for granted, and prefer
    to discuss things wot I have seen while walking !

    --
    I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.

    Mail john rather than nospam...

  18. - And on Thu said:
    Quoted message said:

    Why not send it to the New Scientist "The last word", inside the back
    cover. People ask questions about everyday scientific phenomena, an world
    experts reply. They love water/ice questions with *photos*. I have
    checked and they do not seam to have answered this one.

    There's an idea. Thanks.

    Of even email them at
    lastword at newscientist dot com
    I guess you'll realise how to fix the above email address 😉
    --
    Nick in Northallerton
    www.whelan.me.uk
    Also nickw7coc on
    Yahoo Messenger
    & on MSN Messenger
    & www.skype.com !

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