Persnickity Persimmon Puzzle

Spitzmaus <[email hidden]> wrote:
<snip>
: The recipe couldn't be simpler: 4 cups persimmon pulp, 3 cups sugar, 2 T.
: lemon juice and 1/4 tsp. lemon peel. Mix all together, then boil at low
: temperature for approximately 20 minutes until thickened. Stir in cinnamon,
: ginger, nutmeg or other spice, to taste. Pour into sterilized jars and
: seal; store in refrigerator or freezer.

: So far, so good -- one would think. Trouble is, the finished product isn't
: palatable; the flavor's outstanding (she sez modestly), the mouthfeel is
: *gawd-AWFUL*!! The jam leaves a cotton-y, semi-astrigent film on the teeth
: and tongue almost directly after the taste registers, and subsequent bites
: are no different. Persimmons by nature are puckery, true, but then why
: aren't baked goods similarly affected??!? Again, this isn't my first
: attempt, nor are the results any different.

: Any helpful ideas/suggestions before I jettison the jam??

It sounds like you're using persimmons that aren't
fully ripe. I'm guessing that for jam you could use fruit
that are softer than what you'd think fit for eating.
You could certainly cut down on the astringency by mixing
Fuyu persimmons [the flat, non-astringent variety] with
the Hachiyas that you've probably used, but I think you'd
then be making a tradeoff between mouthfeel and intense
taste.

For this batch: we find that eating hachiyas with lots of
cream tames the nasty mouthfeel enough that we can enjoy
the taste.
--thelma

: Spitz
: --
: "Home, James, and don't spare the horses!"

Spitzmaus said:

Okay, good people, I need some assistance from y'all. For what seems like
the umpty-umpth time in as many years, my efforts to make Persimmon Freezer
Jam have come to naught.

The recipe couldn't be simpler: 4 cups persimmon pulp, 3 cups sugar, 2 T.
lemon juice and 1/4 tsp. lemon peel. Mix all together, then boil at low
temperature for approximately 20 minutes until thickened. Stir in cinnamon,
ginger, nutmeg or other spice, to taste. Pour into sterilized jars and
seal; store in refrigerator or freezer.

So far, so good -- one would think. Trouble is, the finished product isn't
palatable; the flavor's outstanding (she sez modestly), the mouthfeel is
*gawd-AWFUL*!! The jam leaves a cotton-y, semi-astrigent film on the teeth
and tongue almost directly after the taste registers, and subsequent bites
are no different. Persimmons by nature are puckery, true, but then why
aren't baked goods similarly affected??!? Again, this isn't my first
attempt, nor are the results any different.

Any helpful ideas/suggestions before I jettison the jam??

Spitz

The Sharon fruit must be a bit on the soft side, fully ripe, to lose
that.

NT

Quoted message said:

Spitzmaus wrote:

Persimmons by nature are puckery, true, but then why

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

aren't baked goods similarly affected??!? Again, this isn't my first
attempt, nor are the results any different.

Any helpful ideas/suggestions before I jettison the jam??

Spitz

The Sharon fruit must be a bit on the soft side, fully ripe, to lose
that.

NT

They need to be dead ripe..and they lose that puckery taste then.
Completely soft. That is how they are used in bakery products...

Christine

Christine Dabney said:

They need to be dead ripe..and they lose that puckery taste then.
Completely soft. That is how they are used in bakery products...

Christine

Believe me, y'all, I NEVER cook/bake with Hachiyas that aren't so soft
they're practically *melting*! I've been dealing with persimmons as far
back as my college days (uh, let's just say during the last century), and I
always let them get ripe, ripe, ripe. So that's not the problem here.

Sigh . . .

Spitz
--
"Home, James, and don't spare the horses!"

Spitzmaus said:

Okay, good people, I need some assistance from y'all. For what seems like
the umpty-umpth time in as many years, my efforts to make Persimmon Freezer
Jam have come to naught.

The recipe couldn't be simpler: 4 cups persimmon pulp, 3 cups sugar, 2 T.
lemon juice and 1/4 tsp. lemon peel. Mix all together, then boil at low
temperature for approximately 20 minutes until thickened. Stir in cinnamon,
ginger, nutmeg or other spice, to taste. Pour into sterilized jars and
seal; store in refrigerator or freezer.

So far, so good -- one would think. Trouble is, the finished product isn't
palatable; the flavor's outstanding (she sez modestly), the mouthfeel is
*gawd-AWFUL*!! The jam leaves a cotton-y, semi-astrigent film on the teeth
and tongue almost directly after the taste registers, and subsequent bites
are no different. Persimmons by nature are puckery, true, but then why
aren't baked goods similarly affected??!? Again, this isn't my first
attempt, nor are the results any different.

Any helpful ideas/suggestions before I jettison the jam??

Your persimmons aren't ripe. Here's a technique that will let you make
certain they're fully ripe before you need them. Wrap each one in two
layers of plastic wrap. The reason is to minimize exposure to oxygen, so
they need to be well-wrapped and fully enclosed. Put them into a warm
place - 100° to 115°F - for 24 hours. They'll either be fully ripe or
very close. If you want to be dead certain, 48 hours will do it.

The persimmons will still be firm to the touch, but that astringency
will be gone. They grow wild around here, and I hate that water-balloon
texture they get after the frosts. So I pick them in late October and do
the wrap and heat technique. It works most wonderfully. If they still
have any tinge of green on them, I leave them for another 24 hours to be
absolutely sure. My warm place is a heating pad under a cardboard box
with some towels draped over top.

The technique is a parallel to what's done in Japan. They put the unripe
fruit into empty sake barrels. The alcohol evaporating from the walls
drives the air out of the barrels, so the fruit ripens. Since I don't
happen to have any such barrels, I do it with plastic wrap.

Pastorio

Spitzmaus said:

Okay, good people, I need some assistance from y'all. For what seems like
the umpty-umpth time in as many years, my efforts to make Persimmon Freezer
Jam have come to naught.

The recipe couldn't be simpler: 4 cups persimmon pulp, 3 cups sugar, 2 T.
lemon juice and 1/4 tsp. lemon peel. Mix all together, then boil at low
temperature for approximately 20 minutes until thickened. Stir in cinnamon,
ginger, nutmeg or other spice, to taste. Pour into sterilized jars and
seal; store in refrigerator or freezer.

So far, so good -- one would think. Trouble is, the finished product isn't
palatable; the flavor's outstanding (she sez modestly), the mouthfeel is
*gawd-AWFUL*!! The jam leaves a cotton-y, semi-astrigent film on the teeth
and tongue almost directly after the taste registers, and subsequent bites
are no different. Persimmons by nature are puckery, true, but then why
aren't baked goods similarly affected??!? Again, this isn't my first
attempt, nor are the results any different.

Any helpful ideas/suggestions before I jettison the jam??

You'll probably need to jettison and start over. But this time before
you begin you need to know specifically which type of persimmon you
have, and treat it accordingly.

http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/persimmon.html

http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/foods_view/1,1523,63,00.html

http://fooddownunder.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=persimmon

Sheldon

Spitzmaus said:

Okay, good people, I need some assistance from y'all. For what seems like
the umpty-umpth time in as many years, my efforts to make Persimmon Freezer
Jam have come to naught.

The recipe couldn't be simpler: 4 cups persimmon pulp, 3 cups sugar, 2 T.
lemon juice and 1/4 tsp. lemon peel. Mix all together, then boil at low
temperature for approximately 20 minutes until thickened. Stir in cinnamon,
ginger, nutmeg or other spice, to taste. Pour into sterilized jars and
seal; store in refrigerator or freezer.

So far, so good -- one would think. Trouble is, the finished product isn't
palatable; the flavor's outstanding (she sez modestly), the mouthfeel is
*gawd-AWFUL*!! The jam leaves a cotton-y, semi-astrigent film on the teeth
and tongue almost directly after the taste registers, and subsequent bites
are no different. Persimmons by nature are puckery, true, but then why
aren't baked goods similarly affected??!? Again, this isn't my first
attempt, nor are the results any different.

Any helpful ideas/suggestions before I jettison the jam??

Spitz

I don't much about persimmons, but I wonder if your jam has some sort of
extreme f_value. If you have a way of testing it, it might give you a
clue on what things you could add to your recipe to change the pH-value
(I am assuming that that is possible, but I don't know for sure).