Pedal backwards to go forward

(papercut) said:

mbiworld.comproducteng 03.htmOpen ↗

Do I understand this correctly? Pedalling in either
direction results in moving forward.

Why would someone want this?

Wonder how it'd work on a fixed gear?

Dear PaperCut,

You can probably see the ancestors of this forward-or-
backward transmission in Frank Berto's "The Dancing Chain,"
which is scheduled for reprint later this year.

I expect that it's descended from early two-speed systems in
which Rube Goldberg schemes gave one gear ratio when
pedalling forward, but a different ratio when (gulp!)
pedalling backward. A transmission with a high and low speed
was a considerable advance back then. (They used to have a
large and small gear on opposite sides of the rear hub and
would reverse the rear wheel at the top of a long climb.)

It looks as if some brilliant marketer has taken this kind
of system and daringly set both speeds to the same ratio
while advertising the obvious and numerous advantages of
being able to pedal backwards.

Presumably, the same company is working feverishly on a
backwards StairMaster.

Carl legoF

"papercut" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

mbiworld.comproducteng 03.htmOpen ↗

Do I understand this correctly? Pedalling in either
direction results in moving forward.

Why would someone want this?

I have no idea, it doesn't seem to offer any advantages.

Quoted message said:

Wonder how it'd work on a fixed gear?

An interesting thing I've found when riding my fixed gear on
a trainer is that I can ride equally well pedaling forwards
or backwards, both modes seem to use the same muscles,
apparently identically. I tend to switch directions, more
for the novelty than anything else.

[email hidden] (papercut) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

mbiworld.comproducteng 03.htmOpen ↗

Do I understand this correctly? Pedalling in either
direction results in moving forward.

Why would someone want this?

Because it is there?

Quoted message said:

Wonder how it'd work on a fixed gear?

It does - you just have to learn to steer and balance while
going backwards.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Wonder how it'd work on a fixed gear?

It does - you just have to learn to steer and balance
while going

backwards.

I think he meant on a fixed gear when you stop pedaling
the real wheel will turn the chainring which normally will
turn the cranks. But with this thing which way will the
cranks move?

"Nigel Grinter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (papercut) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mbiworld.comproducteng 03.htmOpen ↗

Do I understand this correctly? Pedalling in either
direction

results

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in moving forward.

Why would someone want this?

Because it is there?

Quoted message said:

Wonder how it'd work on a fixed gear?

It does - you just have to learn to steer and balance
while going

backwards.

On Wed, 5 May 2004 15:02:14 +0200, "Ronald"

may have said:

"Nigel Grinter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (papercut) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mbiworld.comproducteng 03.htmOpen ↗

Do I understand this correctly? Pedalling in either
direction

results

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in moving forward.

Why would someone want this?

Because it is there?

Some people will buy anything that's wierd and different. I
submit the Pontiac Aztek and any Citroen sold outside Europe
as evidence.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Wonder how it'd work on a fixed gear?

It does - you just have to learn to steer and balance
while going

backwards.

Ummm, no, I don't think that's going to work. This device
makes reverse pedal rotation into forward chain motion. A
fixie with one of these would have no brakes unless fitted
with hand brakes.

Quoted message said:

I think he meant on a fixed gear when you stop pedaling
the real wheel will turn the chainring which normally will
turn the cranks. But with this thing which way will the
cranks move?

Damned good question. I wonder if they have failed to
consider the effect of a non-freewheeling rear sprocket in
the system? I suspect that they haven't.

Bloody near useless gadget, if you ask me.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

mbiworld.comproducteng 03.htmOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do I understand this correctly? Pedalling in either
direction results in moving forward.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why would someone want this?

Quoted message said:

I have no idea, it doesn't seem to offer any advantages.

As was mentioned, the low gear is achieved by pedaling
backwards.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Wonder how it'd work on a fixed gear?

Quoted message said:

An interesting thing I've found when riding my fixed gear
on a trainer is that I can ride equally well pedaling
forwards or backwards, both modes seem to use the same
muscles, apparently identically. I tend to switch
directions, more for the novelty than anything else.

What is less evident is that you cannot exert much force on
the downward pedal in reverse because it is about 14 inches
farther back from the rider's CG compared to forward
pedaling. This is probably the main reason why this never
caught on, besides that reverse pedaling is counter to human
response as in walking and running. Try walking backwards to
exemplify that.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Werehatrack said:

Damned good question. I wonder if they have failed to
consider the effect of a non-freewheeling rear sprocket in
the system? I suspect that they haven't.

There's no reason why the rear sprockets can't freewheel as
normal. This appears to be an internal gearing system which
makes the chainrings rotate the same way regardless of which
way the cranks are going.

On Wed, 05 May 2004 18:34:55 GMT, [email hidden] may

have said:

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

mbiworld.comproducteng 03.htmOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do I understand this correctly? Pedalling in either
direction results in moving forward.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why would someone want this?

Quoted message said:

I have no idea, it doesn't seem to offer any advantages.

As was mentioned, the low gear is achieved by pedaling
backwards.

Mentioned where? The specs seem to indicate that it's 1:1 in
both directions.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Wonder how it'd work on a fixed gear?

Quoted message said:

An interesting thing I've found when riding my fixed gear
on a trainer is that I can ride equally well pedaling
forwards or backwards, both modes seem to use the same
muscles, apparently identically. I tend to switch
directions, more for the novelty than anything else.

What is less evident is that you cannot exert much force on
the downward pedal in reverse because it is about 14 inches
farther back from the rider's CG compared to forward
pedaling.

And the exertion occurs with the knee flexed farther, which
would certainly be the wrong thing in my case.

Quoted message said:

This is probably the main reason why this never caught on,
besides that reverse pedaling is counter to human response
as in walking and running.

Not that pedalling is "natural", but conventional pedalling
is much closer to the motion of walking than reverse-
pedalling would be.

Another apparent oddity; it looks like they are specifying
it for 156mm cranks, which is rather short as well as a
decidedly peculiar length.

All things considered, this looks like the kind of thing
that someone would cook up for part of their master's
thesis. It's amazing how many "interesting" but remarkably
pointless devices come from such efforts.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Wed, 05 May 2004 19:41:02 +0100, Zog The Undeniable

may have said:

Werehatrack said:

Damned good question. I wonder if they have failed to
consider the effect of a non-freewheeling rear sprocket
in the system? I suspect that they haven't.

There's no reason why the rear sprockets can't freewheel as
normal. This appears to be an internal gearing system which
makes the chainrings rotate the same way regardless of
which way the cranks are going.

Yes, but the subject was the potential effect of using this
on a fixie, where the rear sprocket *doesn't* freewheel. In
that case, things might not be so clear-cut.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

On Wed, 05 May 2004 18:34:55 GMT,

may have said:

Peter Cole said:

> mbiworld.comproducteng 03.htmOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

> Do I understand this correctly? Pedalling in either
> direction results in moving forward.

Quoted message said:

> Why would someone want this?

Quoted message said:

I have no idea, it doesn't seem to offer any advantages.

As was mentioned, the low gear is achieved by pedaling
backwards.

Mentioned where? The specs seem to indicate that it's 1:1
in both directions.

[snip]

Dear Werehatrack,

Possibly Jobst was thinking of my post, which mentioned that
the ancestors of this forward-backward gizmo offered two
speeds, one low and one high, while this incarnation has
abandoned that advantage in favor of identical ratios and
claims for happy knees.

It wouldn't be the first time that I've sowed confusion.

Carl Fogel