Pedal backwards to go forward

(papercut) said:

http://www.mbiworld.com/mbi/html/producteng_03.htm

Do I understand this correctly? Pedalling in either direction results
in moving forward.

Why would someone want this?

Wonder how it'd work on a fixed gear?

Dear PaperCut,

You can probably see the ancestors of this forward-or-backward
transmission in Frank Berto's "The Dancing Chain," which is scheduled
for reprint later this year.

I expect that it's descended from early two-speed systems in which
Rube Goldberg schemes gave one gear ratio when pedalling forward, but
a different ratio when (gulp!) pedalling backward. A transmission with
a high and low speed was a considerable advance back then. (They used
to have a large and small gear on opposite sides of the rear hub and
would reverse the rear wheel at the top of a long climb.)

It looks as if some brilliant marketer has taken this kind of system
and daringly set both speeds to the same ratio while advertising the
obvious and numerous advantages of being able to pedal backwards.

Presumably, the same company is working feverishly on a backwards
StairMaster.

Carl legoF

"papercut" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.mbiworld.com/mbi/html/producteng_03.htm

Do I understand this correctly? Pedalling in either direction results
in moving forward.

Why would someone want this?

I have no idea, it doesn't seem to offer any advantages.

Quoted message said:

Wonder how it'd work on a fixed gear?

An interesting thing I've found when riding my fixed gear on a trainer is that
I can ride equally well pedaling forwards or backwards, both modes seem to use
the same muscles, apparently identically. I tend to switch directions, more
for the novelty than anything else.

[email hidden] (papercut) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

http://www.mbiworld.com/mbi/html/producteng_03.htm

Do I understand this correctly? Pedalling in either direction results
in moving forward.

Why would someone want this?

Because it is there?

Quoted message said:

Wonder how it'd work on a fixed gear?

It does - you just have to learn to steer and balance while going backwards.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Wonder how it'd work on a fixed gear?

It does - you just have to learn to steer and balance while going

backwards.

I think he meant on a fixed gear when you stop pedaling the real wheel
will turn the chainring which normally will turn the cranks. But with
this thing which way will the cranks move?

"Nigel Grinter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (papercut) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.mbiworld.com/mbi/html/producteng_03.htm

Do I understand this correctly? Pedalling in either direction

results

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in moving forward.

Why would someone want this?

Because it is there?

Quoted message said:

Wonder how it'd work on a fixed gear?

It does - you just have to learn to steer and balance while going

backwards.

On Wed, 5 May 2004 15:02:14 +0200, "Ronald"

may have said:

"Nigel Grinter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (papercut) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.mbiworld.com/mbi/html/producteng_03.htm

Do I understand this correctly? Pedalling in either direction

results

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in moving forward.

Why would someone want this?

Because it is there?

Some people will buy anything that's wierd and different. I submit
the Pontiac Aztek and any Citroen sold outside Europe as evidence.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Wonder how it'd work on a fixed gear?

It does - you just have to learn to steer and balance while going

backwards.

Ummm, no, I don't think that's going to work. This device makes
reverse pedal rotation into forward chain motion. A fixie with one of
these would have no brakes unless fitted with hand brakes.

Quoted message said:

I think he meant on a fixed gear when you stop pedaling the real wheel
will turn the chainring which normally will turn the cranks. But with
this thing which way will the cranks move?

Damned good question. I wonder if they have failed to consider the
effect of a non-freewheeling rear sprocket in the system? I suspect
that they haven't.

Bloody near useless gadget, if you ask me.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.mbiworld.com/mbi/html/producteng_03.htm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do I understand this correctly? Pedalling in either direction
results in moving forward.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why would someone want this?

Quoted message said:

I have no idea, it doesn't seem to offer any advantages.

As was mentioned, the low gear is achieved by pedaling backwards.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Wonder how it'd work on a fixed gear?

Quoted message said:

An interesting thing I've found when riding my fixed gear on a
trainer is that I can ride equally well pedaling forwards or
backwards, both modes seem to use the same muscles, apparently
identically. I tend to switch directions, more for the novelty than
anything else.

What is less evident is that you cannot exert much force on the
downward pedal in reverse because it is about 14 inches farther back
from the rider's CG compared to forward pedaling. This is probably
the main reason why this never caught on, besides that reverse
pedaling is counter to human response as in walking and running. Try
walking backwards to exemplify that.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Werehatrack said:

Damned good question. I wonder if they have failed to consider the
effect of a non-freewheeling rear sprocket in the system? I suspect
that they haven't.

There's no reason why the rear sprockets can't freewheel as normal.
This appears to be an internal gearing system which makes the chainrings
rotate the same way regardless of which way the cranks are going.

On Wed, 05 May 2004 19:41:02 +0100, Zog The Undeniable

may have said:

Werehatrack said:

Damned good question. I wonder if they have failed to consider the
effect of a non-freewheeling rear sprocket in the system? I suspect
that they haven't.

There's no reason why the rear sprockets can't freewheel as normal.
This appears to be an internal gearing system which makes the chainrings
rotate the same way regardless of which way the cranks are going.

Yes, but the subject was the potential effect of using this on a
fixie, where the rear sprocket *doesn't* freewheel. In that case,
things might not be so clear-cut.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Wed, 05 May 2004 18:34:55 GMT, [email hidden] may

have said:

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.mbiworld.com/mbi/html/producteng_03.htm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do I understand this correctly? Pedalling in either direction
results in moving forward.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why would someone want this?

Quoted message said:

I have no idea, it doesn't seem to offer any advantages.

As was mentioned, the low gear is achieved by pedaling backwards.

Mentioned where? The specs seem to indicate that it's 1:1 in both
directions.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Wonder how it'd work on a fixed gear?

Quoted message said:

An interesting thing I've found when riding my fixed gear on a
trainer is that I can ride equally well pedaling forwards or
backwards, both modes seem to use the same muscles, apparently
identically. I tend to switch directions, more for the novelty than
anything else.

What is less evident is that you cannot exert much force on the
downward pedal in reverse because it is about 14 inches farther back
from the rider's CG compared to forward pedaling.

And the exertion occurs with the knee flexed farther, which would
certainly be the wrong thing in my case.

Quoted message said:

This is probably
the main reason why this never caught on, besides that reverse
pedaling is counter to human response as in walking and running.

Not that pedalling is "natural", but conventional pedalling is much
closer to the motion of walking than reverse-pedalling would be.

Another apparent oddity; it looks like they are specifying it for
156mm cranks, which is rather short as well as a decidedly peculiar
length.

All things considered, this looks like the kind of thing that someone
would cook up for part of their master's thesis. It's amazing how
many "interesting" but remarkably pointless devices come from such
efforts.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

On Wed, 05 May 2004 18:34:55 GMT, [email hidden] may

have said:

Peter Cole said:

> http://www.mbiworld.com/mbi/html/producteng_03.htm

Quoted message said:

> Do I understand this correctly? Pedalling in either direction
> results in moving forward.

Quoted message said:

> Why would someone want this?

Quoted message said:

I have no idea, it doesn't seem to offer any advantages.

As was mentioned, the low gear is achieved by pedaling backwards.

Mentioned where? The specs seem to indicate that it's 1:1 in both
directions.

[snip]

Dear Werehatrack,

Possibly Jobst was thinking of my post, which mentioned that the
ancestors of this forward-backward gizmo offered two speeds, one low
and one high, while this incarnation has abandoned that advantage in
favor of identical ratios and claims for happy knees.

It wouldn't be the first time that I've sowed confusion.

Carl Fogel