Road Cycling · Public discussion

Part 2 For the Lance Fans

Started by Reggie · · Last activity · 14 posts · 517 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
Road Cycling
Published
9 March 2005
Last activity
14 March 2005
Original author
Reggie
Posts
14
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
517
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–14 of 14
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. 2) Hautacam 2000: 2175 Leg lifts of 45 kg in a row!

    This 205 km stage in the Pyrennees, contested in cold, partly rainy weather,
    was

    Won by Javier Ochoa, rider for the Spanish team Kelme, at the end of 155km
    breakaway. Lance Armstrong finished second on this 10th stage, and took the
    yellow jersey, relegating Jan Ullrich to a time of 4 minutes 14 seconds on
    the general classification.

    "This time," relates Antoine Vayer, "he established an average
    output of 457 watts, after a period of 557 watts at the foot of the climb,
    following the attack of Marco Pantani, then he released a burst of 500 watts
    to drop the Italien in terrible atmospheric conditions after a succession of
    mountain passes. There, where he should have lost his facility on a steady
    climb after five hours in the saddle, he actually increased it! He was able
    to accelerate without appearing tired. At Hautacam, he paced himself, after
    having dropped Pantani by outputting more than 500 watts, then he was able
    to accelerate again toward the summit to take the wheel of and then drop the
    attacking Spanish rider Jose Maria Jimenez, while outputting 450 watts. This
    is no longer cycling."

    To bring these numbers into context, Antoine Vayer provides the
    following base of comparison: "During his ascent, the American demonstrated
    an average output of 457 watts for a climb which lasted 36 minutes 25
    seconds. If we put into perspective the output of watts over this time, the
    result is astonishing: the force he used pushing on the pedals
    alternatively, one leg after the other, corresponds to the force necessary
    to lift a bag weighing 45 kg every second for 36 minutes 25 seconds, in
    other words to do this 2175 times in a row without any apparent tiredness.
    2175 times! Training and weight lifting can't explain everything,
    especially since these exertions occurred at the end of a stage of the Tour
    de France."

    pages 308-309 More to come.

  2. "Reggie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    2) Hautacam 2000: 2175 Leg lifts of 45 kg in a row!

    When copying someone else's work, at least try to show you understand what
    they were trying to say.

    The above is not difficult, merely boring. I've done 1,000 bodyweight squats
    without breaks a few times; my bodyweight minus guess factor for the parts
    that don't move as far is 60kg. It's not all that difficult, just boring.

    The author was trying to make the point that doing it in a short time
    requires a high power output.

    Peter

  3. "Peter Allen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Reggie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    2) Hautacam 2000: 2175 Leg lifts of 45 kg in a row!

    When copying someone else's work, at least try to show you understand what
    they were trying to say.

    The above is not difficult, merely boring. I've done 1,000 bodyweight
    squats without breaks a few times; my bodyweight minus guess factor for
    the parts that don't move as far is 60kg. It's not all that difficult,
    just boring.

    The author was trying to make the point that doing it in a short time
    requires a high power output.

    Peter

    With the exception of the last line at the bottom of the post, all the words
    are a direct translation from the French.

    R.

  4. Reggie said:

    2) Hautacam 2000: 2175 Leg lifts of 45 kg in a row!

    Thanks for the great posts Reggie. Best RBR contribution this year.
    We Westworlders without the French background appreciate it. And
    please ignore the trolls extolling their fascinating leglifting
    abilities. Keep it up!

    -Alec

  5. Reggie said:

    2) Hautacam 2000: 2175 Leg lifts of 45 kg in a row!
    To bring these numbers into context, Antoine Vayer provides
    the following base of comparison: "During his ascent, the American
    demonstrated an average output of 457 watts for a climb which lasted 36
    minutes 25 seconds. If we put into perspective the output of watts
    over this time, the result is astonishing: the force he used pushing on
    the pedals alternatively, one leg after the other, corresponds to the
    force necessary to lift a bag weighing 45 kg every second for 36
    minutes 25 seconds, in other words to do this 2175 times in a row
    without any apparent tiredness. 2175 times! Training and weight
    lifting can't explain everything, especially since these exertions
    occurred at the end of a stage of the Tour de France."

    Oh my. Oh my goodness my. I think we've identified the problem: Vayer's
    calculation assumes Armstrong's cadence was 60 rpm. Do the calculation
    yourself to see.

  6. Alec Sander said:

    Thanks for the great posts Reggie.

    I agree. They've been very illuminating.

    Quoted message said:

    Keep it up!

    Please do.

  7. Robert Chung said:
    Reggie said:

    2) Hautacam 2000: 2175 Leg lifts of 45 kg in a row!
    To bring these numbers into context, Antoine Vayer provides
    the following base of comparison: "During his ascent, the American
    demonstrated an average output of 457 watts for a climb which lasted 36
    minutes 25 seconds. If we put into perspective the output of watts
    over this time, the result is astonishing: the force he used pushing on
    the pedals alternatively, one leg after the other, corresponds to the
    force necessary to lift a bag weighing 45 kg every second for 36
    minutes 25 seconds, in other words to do this 2175 times in a row
    without any apparent tiredness. 2175 times! Training and weight
    lifting can't explain everything, especially since these exertions
    occurred at the end of a stage of the Tour de France."

    Oh my. Oh my goodness my. I think we've identified the problem: Vayer's
    calculation assumes Armstrong's cadence was 60 rpm. Do the calculation
    yourself to see.

    Thanks. I've only been reading this thread to watch you play with the
    stats that've been thrown around.

    Sounds like he could have saved himself a lot of time if he'd just
    assumed LA was on EPO to start with. It'd make for a short paper, and
    that's not necessarily a bad thing.

  8. "Reggie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Peter Allen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Reggie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    2) Hautacam 2000: 2175 Leg lifts of 45 kg in a row!

    When copying someone else's work, at least try to show you understand
    what they were trying to say.

    The above is not difficult, merely boring. I've done 1,000 bodyweight
    squats without breaks a few times; my bodyweight minus guess factor for
    the parts that don't move as far is 60kg. It's not all that difficult,
    just boring.

    The author was trying to make the point that doing it in a short time
    requires a high power output.

    Peter

    With the exception of the last line at the bottom of the post, all the
    words are a direct translation from the French.

    My apologies. I should have realised that you were not merely copying
    someone else's work, but copying someone else's poor write-up of a third
    person's original comments.

    Peter

  9. amit said:

    but that's not the issue. my problem, as i've said, with this line of
    reasoning is it doesn't answer the question (wrt. doping).

    Yeah, but it's kinda fun to read. I'm hoping the next excerpt includes
    Vayer's astonishment at seeing "des gros culs passer les cols en tete."

  10. Dear Reggie,

    I have only been weight lifting for two months, but I was able to do 30 kg
    for five minutes in a row. That means that someone like LA who has been
    training for 15 years can easily do 45 kg for 37 minutes. I'm surprised that
    all cyclists can't easily do that, because they have also been training a
    long time.

    thanks, blind Armstrong sycophant

  11. Robert Chung said:

    The "2175 times" is a clue (it appears that Vayer thinks that 36 minutes
    and 25 seconds = 36.25 minutes). Elsewhere, Vayer appears to confuse force
    with work: "lors de son ascension victorieuse à Hautacam en 2000,
    Armstrong a généré une puissance moyenne de 457 watts, après 200 bornes de
    course. Cela équivaut à la force requise pour soulever alternativement d'
    une jambe puis de l'autre, et à hauteur de 1 mètre, un sac de 45kg attaché
    à chacun de ses pieds pendant 36 minutes 25 secondes (son temps d'
    ascension), soit 2175 fois de suite sans aucune faiblesse.
    Impressionnant." (http://laflammerouge.com/archives/cat_dopage.php)

    Sounds like a gym teacher to me.

    --
    Firefox Web Browser - Rediscover the web - http://getffox.com/
    Thunderbird E-mail and Newsgroups - http://gettbird.com/

  12. Philip Holman said:

    "Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:


    The "2175 times" is a clue (it appears that Vayer thinks that 36
    minutes and 25 seconds = 36.25 minutes). Elsewhere, Vayer
    appears to confuse force with work: "lors de son ascension
    victorieuse à Hautacam en 2000, Armstrong a généré une
    puissance moyenne de 457 watts, après 200 bornes de
    course. Cela équivaut à la force requise pour soulever alternativement
    d'une jambe puis de l'autre, et à hauteur de 1 mètre, un sac de 45kg
    attaché à chacun de ses pieds pendant 36 minutes 25 secondes
    (son temps d'ascension), soit 2175 fois de suite sans aucune
    faiblesse. Impressionnant."
    (http://laflammerouge.com/archives/cat_dopage.php)


    You are probably right. Assuming peak force would attribute a
    sophistication he has not demonstrated.

    It's worse than that. His passage was meant to illustrate what 457 watts
    means, but the French version has enough info in it to double-check. He
    says 457 watts is equivalent to having Armstrong attach a 45kg weight to
    each leg and climbing 1 m/sec. Vayer uses 71 kg for Armstrong's mass, so
    the total mass is 71+45+45 = 161 kg. How much power does it take to raise
    161 kg 1 meter in 1 second? Hmmm. Seems like Vayer's helpful little
    putting-things-in-context illustration has exaggerated Armstrong's
    performance by just a tad. Vayer's level of hackery? Impressionant.

  13. Robert Chung said:

    It's worse than that. His passage was meant to illustrate what 457


    watts

    Quoted message said:

    means, but the French version has enough info in it to double-check.

    I assumed 45 was just 457 (W) divided by 9.8 (m/s) rounded to the
    nearest factor of 5.

    Jenko

  14. Jenko said:
    Robert Chung said:

    It's worse than that. His passage was meant to illustrate what 457


    watts

    Quoted message said:

    means, but the French version has enough info in it to


    double-check.

    Quoted message said:


    I assumed 45 was just 457 (W) divided by 9.8 (m/s) rounded to the
    nearest factor of 5.


    ^^^^^^

    I meant, multiple.

    Jenko

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.