Pappy down with the Underground

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:05:01 GMT, [email hidden] (Horse DeLay)

Quoted message said:

http://www.stolenunderground.com/id98.html

Whooa.

JT

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In article <[email hidden]>, John Forrest

Tomlinson said:

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:05:01 GMT, [email hidden] (Horse DeLay)

Quoted message said:

http://www.stolenunderground.com/id98.html

Whooa.

That's an interesting read, but he contradicts himself. He says the
Tour can't be won nor finished without doping, yet he says a relative
his teammate (Cunego) can, and does win the Giro without doping.

Spinelli is just another one of the guys who only has the talent and
ability to be in the third tier and can only be in the second tier with
the help of doping, and so therefore says everyone else has to be
doping too, except his teammate.

-WG

Does EPO and GH use lead to delusional thoughts, or was it the
cocaine?

"I was climbing with some of the best climbers"

When did Spinelli do this? I can't remember him doing anything of note
in Europe. I even think I remember some kind of family connection
being responsible for him getting the ride with Saeco?

John Forrest Tomlinson <.com>...

Quoted message said:

(Horse DeLay) said:

http://www.stolenunderground.com/id98.html

Whooa.

JT

FYI -- that photo of Justin is from the 2002 SF GP on lap 11 on Taylor St. hill.
Original:
http://www.kenpapai.com/racing/sf2002/spinelli0492.jpg

I like the adjustments s-u.com did (B&W background). Too cool.

The s-u.com boss man himself:
http://www.kenpapai.com/racing/sf2003/decanio0717.jpg

-kjp

"Horse DeLay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.stolenunderground.com/id98.html

viz the photo credit.

Wow, interesting article.

you can have your days where you get up the hill with the first group and it
still doesnt mean that you get a result... a lot happens in those races...

spinelli was really good and given the time and the proper care and environment
he could have progreesed differently without doping...

it depends on where you are and who you are with when you are over there... he
was obviously in a group that doped up and looked at it as neccessary... he was
also in italy where it is STUPID hard and every race has some ridiculous steep
ass hills in it... so he never probably had the option to do some nice flat
races somehwere where it wasnt kicking his ass every week...

you cant really say what he would have been or what he had the talent to do...
especially if you have never ridden with him in races and seen what he was
capable of in his begining years in the national team...

has was a super mega talent but he went to teams that just lost track of him
and werent really interested in developing him... he was a super good rider and
everyone believed in his enormous potential but he got thrown in the meat
grinder and no one ever saw him again... that was the old schol mentality...
get a good kid and see if he can race.. if he can good, if he cant, well at
least you didnt waste any energy trying do something stupid like "developing"
him or trying to "bring him along slowly".. who has time for that when you are
running a bike team?!...

thats why CA and rabobank have their GS3 teams so that they can bring the young
kids alond easier.. in fact thats why GS3 exsists, to not throw kids in the
deep end of the pool... if you cant swim, you grab the life preserver.. but if
you can start in the shallow end you will learn to swim and then make it to the
deep end on your own in time...

spinelli did the damned giro right out of the gate as one of his first big pro
races!.. imagine if you go from amateur u23 to teh damned giro.. its gonna
change your outlook on the sport and the way you think of yourself as a young
athlete... the poor kid never had a chance...

warren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

That's an interesting read, but he contradicts himself. He says the
Tour can't be won nor finished without doping, yet he says a relative
his teammate (Cunego) can, and does win the Giro without doping.

No he doesn't, he says Cunego is an amazing specimen, the athlete of
the future, but doesn't say he is not doping. He simply says he
doesn't know if he is or isn't. Which is pretty much the same thing
he says about Armstrong, despite the above statement.

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (erik saunders)

Quoted message said:

you cant really say what he would have been or what he had the talent to
do...
especially if you have never ridden with him in races and seen what he was
capable of in his begining years in the national team...

has was a super mega talent but he went to teams that just lost track of him
and werent really interested in developing him... he was a super good rider
and
everyone believed in his enormous potential but he got thrown in the meat
grinder and no one ever saw him again... that was the old schol mentality...
get a good kid and see if he can race.. if he can good, if he cant, well at
least you didnt waste any energy trying do something stupid like "developing"
him or trying to "bring him along slowly".. who has time for that when you
are
running a bike team?!...

thats why CA and rabobank have their GS3 teams so that they can bring the
young
kids alond easier.. in fact thats why GS3 exsists, to not throw kids in the
deep end of the pool... if you cant swim, you grab the life preserver.. but
if
you can start in the shallow end you will learn to swim and then make it to
the
deep end on your own in time...

spinelli did the damned giro right out of the gate as one of his first big
pro
races!.. imagine if you go from amateur u23 to teh damned giro.. its gonna
change your outlook on the sport and the way you think of yourself as a young
athlete... the poor kid never had a chance...

God Damn it Erik stop making sense. This is RBR.
BTW you hit on one of my HUGE pet peeves which is teams and coaches who will
burn out, turn off, ride kids until they break to get the next big thing. They
wreck so many solid young racers who could be really solid, if not the next
superstar, and these kids give up racing and hate everything about the sport in
their search for The Chosen One.
Thanks for being you
Bill C

(Horse DeLay) said:

http://www.stolenunderground.com/id98.html

Excellent subject for this interview. Spinneli's a man who's been and done and
understands where and what.

THIS is the standard by which I consider that site's usual whiney, childish
tantrums to be counterproductive, self-serving and simply stupid.

As for the interviewer, well, I think I pretty much just said it. I don't think
I've ever seen better, more thoughtful answers to worse questions.

Ron

Hi, this is Justin Spinelli. Someone sent me a link this formum and I
just want to say one thing. [censored] you if you think it was just luck or
some "familly connection" that I rode for those teams. You are are
stupid, [censored] and will never understand how hard the sport of cycling
is. So [censored] YOU!!!! And [censored] all the other IDIOTS who will not
accept the truth. It is painful enough that most of you have no clue
what really goes on in professional cycling. THEN WHEN A RIDER SPEAKS
OUT YOU DOUBT HIM! FOOLS!

One last thing to Eric Saunders. Thank You.

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (Its Me)

Quoted message said:

Hi, this is Justin Spinelli. Someone sent me a link this formum and I
just want to say one thing. [censored] you if you think it was just luck or
some "familly connection" that I rode for those teams. You are are
stupid, [censored] and will never understand how hard the sport of cycling
is. So [censored] YOU!!!! And [censored] all the other IDIOTS who will not
accept the truth. It is painful enough that most of you have no clue
what really goes on in professional cycling. THEN WHEN A RIDER SPEAKS
OUT YOU DOUBT HIM! FOOLS!

One last thing to Eric Saunders. Thank You.

Whooah! If this is you Justin, there are some things you need to know about
this place. The first being that most of the noise comes from those least
likely to have a clue.
I'd guess that a lot of us figure that Matt is more right than wrong and are
just waiting for it to be proven.
I don't automatically believe what I hear from Pro riders because I've heard
some really stupid [censored] from them. You have a question about where my head is
on cycling, or my integrity, ask Myerson when you see him or any official here
in the north east.
I understand how you got so [censored], and why, but you've got a lot of
people here who DO know what's going on and how things work so don't be burning
bridges just yet.
Most of us want to see the scum out of the sport, but foaming at the mouth
isn't going to help.
As for your racing, anyone who doesn't think you were/are good enough to get
there on talent is a moron. Ignore them.
Bill Crowther

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Whooah! If this is you Justin, there are some things you need to know about
this place. The first being that most of the noise comes from those least
likely to have a clue.
I'd guess that a lot of us figure that Matt is more right than wrong and are
just waiting for it to be proven.
I don't automatically believe what I hear from Pro riders because I've heard
some really stupid [censored] from them. You have a question about where my head
is
on cycling, or my integrity, ask Myerson when you see him or any official
here
in the north east.
I understand how you got so [censored], and why, but you've got a lot of
people here who DO know what's going on and how things work so don't be
burning
bridges just yet.
Most of us want to see the scum out of the sport, but foaming at the mouth
isn't
going to help.
As for your racing, anyone who doesn't think you were/are good enough to get
there on talent is a moron. Ignore them.
Bill Crowther

Bill
I'm here reading too.
Perhaps it's because Justin began his racing with our U23 team that he's
always been one of my favorites. After the Ft. Devens Espoirs 'Cross Natz
in which Justin came in 2nd in a close dual with Tim Johnson and Jonathan
Page, Tim, the winner, went on record saying that Justin had the tools to
win the Tour de France. Well, it may have been too soon to forecast that
far into the future, but everyone in the Northeast knew that Justin was
a shooting star. Within two and a half years he was on television being
interviewed during his Giro debut. It can be argued ad infinitum whether
this team or that coach could have taken him further, but the fact remains
he was one of the few Yanks that went "over there" without all the coddling
or support that we're used to seeing in the retrospectives on the heros that
made it.

Some folk here have come down hard on Matt and his site, and now it's
trickling
over to Justin since he gave his interview. It seems to me that lots of
post-ers here
are using this stuff for bar talk. Matt and Justin are barely mid
twenty-somethings.
RBR-ers may not like the presentation on StolenUnderground, but no one who's
dedicated to racing can debate whether their message needs to be heard. If
someone
soon doesn't act on the doping issue, it won't be too long before the sport
becomes
WWF-like or has the credibility of the players in the film Rollerball.

My hats off to these two for coming clean.
e-RICHIE
[email hidden]

"Its Me" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi, this is Justin Spinelli. Someone sent me a link this formum and I
just want to say one thing. [censored] you if you think it was just luck or
some "familly connection" that I rode for those teams. You are are
stupid, [censored] and will never understand how hard the sport of cycling
is. So [censored] YOU!!!! And [censored] all the other IDIOTS who will not
accept the truth. It is painful enough that most of you have no clue
what really goes on in professional cycling. THEN WHEN A RIDER SPEAKS
OUT YOU DOUBT HIM! FOOLS!

Hey Justin -- tip: don't post when you're drunk.

You're welcome,
Ken

Quoted message said:

One last thing to Eric Saunders. Thank You.

(TritonRider) said:

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (Its Me)

Quoted message said:

Hi, this is Justin Spinelli. Someone sent me a link this formum and I
just want to say one thing. [censored] you if you think it was just luck or
some "familly connection" that I rode for those teams. You are are
stupid, [censored] and will never understand how hard the sport of cycling
is. So [censored] YOU!!!! And [censored] all the other IDIOTS who will not
accept the truth. It is painful enough that most of you have no clue
what really goes on in professional cycling. THEN WHEN A RIDER SPEAKS
OUT YOU DOUBT HIM! FOOLS!

One last thing to Eric Saunders. Thank You.

Whooah! If this is you Justin, there are some things you need to know about
this place. The first being that most of the noise comes from those least
likely to have a clue.
I'd guess that a lot of us figure that Matt is more right than wrong and are
just waiting for it to be proven.
I don't automatically believe what I hear from Pro riders because I've heard
some really stupid [censored] from them. You have a question about where my head is
on cycling, or my integrity, ask Myerson when you see him or any official here
in the north east.
I understand how you got so [censored], and why, but you've got a lot of
people here who DO know what's going on and how things work so don't be burning
bridges just yet.
Most of us want to see the scum out of the sport, but foaming at the mouth
isn't going to help.

AMEN!

Quoted message said:

As for your racing, anyone who doesn't think you were/are good enough to get
there on talent is a moron. Ignore them.

Indeed. The record is there. The accomplishments speak for themselves.

I'm not a pro rider, never was and never will be. I DON'T, CAN'T know.

What I can do is read/listen to those who say they know and judge credibility
and compare what is said to my perceptions and experiences in life. This is
pretty much how the jury system works and generally works well.

Justin was persuasive and seemed reasonable and responsible in his interview.

The "foaming at the mouth" IS counterproductive. So much so that Justin's
interview is the ONLY compelling, persuasive thing I've ever read on the SU
site. The rest is just bitter spew that could've been produced by any wannabe.
OTOH, Justin comes off as a man who was there, didn't make it to the top but
knows what's happening there and has thought it through.

Justin seems to care about the other riders and the future of the sport. Unlike
so many anti-doping ranters he acknowledges the inevitability of a man subjected
to a European pro schedule taking whatever he thinks can help. No holier-than-
thou [censored]. No idealistic moralizing.

That is a perspective that is going to do some good.

Ron