pantani dead

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Jeff Jones
cyclingnews.comnews.phpOpen ↗

This hasn't been a good day

Very sad day indeed. He had pure passion and pure style. God that is horrible.

maybe it was all the hatred and venom from Ken Papai that killed Pantani, but just maybe

"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> skrev i meddelandet
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

cyclingnews.comnews.phpOpen ↗

This hasn't been a good day

"Oscar Mannheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

maybe it was all the hatred and venom from Ken Papai that killed Pantani, but just maybe

know-nothing [censored].

Quoted message said:

"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> skrev i meddelandet
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

cyclingnews.comnews.phpOpen ↗

This hasn't been a good day

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:n1QXb.320482$xy6.1553206@attbi_s02...

Quoted message said:

"Oscar Mannheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

maybe it was all the hatred and venom from Ken Papai that killed

Pantani,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but just maybe

Quoted message said:

know-nothing [censored].

Calm down Ken. Even Brian felt the need to remind everyone that Pantani screwed up his own career
when he might well have gone down into the record books on his natural ability.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

maybe it was all the hatred and venom from Ken Papai that killed

Pantani,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but just maybe

Quoted message said:

know-nothing [censored].

This is exactly what I'm talking about, unwarranted, juvenile and emotional attitudes. I remember
when you Papai where praising Pantani (Papai always supports the winner), back in 98. You wanted to
introduce this great cyclist to the rest of us with brisk comments like "Go Pantani, just GO". Then
Armstrong came, and Pantani didn't pass the hematocrit test. Ken Papai was soon competing with the
rest of the mob, who could detest Pantani the most? Exaggerated attitudes, and opinions without
nuances, killed Marco Pantani. Ken Papai killed Pantani........but just maybe.

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:n1QXb.320482$xy6.1553206@attbi_s02...

Quoted message said:

"Oscar Mannheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

maybe it was all the hatred and venom from Ken Papai that killed

Pantani,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but just maybe

Quoted message said:

know-nothing [censored].

Don't waste any keystrokes on this Ken, this is the same guy who posted a link to a virus in RBR.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> skrev i meddelandet
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

cyclingnews.comnews.phpOpen ↗

This hasn't been a good day

Quoted message said:

Don't waste any keystrokes on this Ken, this is the same guy who posted a link to a virus in RBR.

it was not a virus, it was a joke that I stole from another forum (alt.music.pink-floyd). The "virus
joke" was appreciated at that forum, not here though. I received some very hateful messages via e-
mail. I remember that one person, not Ken Papai, suggested that I should kill myself .

Oscar Mannheim said:

Exaggerated attitudes, and opinions without nuances, killed Marco Pantani. Ken Papai killed
Pantani........but just maybe.

Dude,

Pappy has hardly posted here since October. Then Pantani dies and your first thought is of ... Ken
Papai? You are the one who is obsessed.

Depression sucks. One fact that maybe you aren't thinking about is that it is an illness, an
internal phenomenon. It may be amplified by outside effects, but blaming them for depression and its
consequences is essentially misguided. It is common after a suicide for friends and acquaintances to
blame themselves for not seeing or not helping - and less commonly, to blame others for causing the
circumstances that led to the death. This is understandable (been there, done that) but basically
unrealistic. It is difficult if not impossible to save someone bent on self-destruction if they
don't want to be saved. Similarly it is difficult to kill someone just by not being nice to them.

Few people's hands are clean in the matter of Pantani, and that includes we the fans; but your holier-than-
thou attitude does the man's memory no honor.

-Ben

In article <403037d2$1@darkstar>, Benjamin Weiner <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Oscar Mannheim said:

Exaggerated attitudes, and opinions without nuances, killed Marco Pantani. Ken Papai killed
Pantani........but just maybe.

Dude,

Pappy has hardly posted here since October. Then Pantani dies and your first thought is of ... Ken
Papai? You are the one who is obsessed.

Depression sucks. One fact that maybe you aren't thinking about is that it is an illness, an
internal phenomenon. It may be amplified by outside effects, but blaming them for depression and
its consequences is essentially misguided. It is common after a suicide for friends and
acquaintances to blame themselves for not seeing or not helping - and less commonly, to blame
others for causing the circumstances that led to the death. This is understandable (been there,
done that) but basically unrealistic. It is difficult if not impossible to save someone bent on
self-destruction if they don't want to be saved. Similarly it is difficult to kill someone just by
not being nice to them.

Few people's hands are clean in the matter of Pantani, and that includes we the fans; but your holier-than-
thou attitude does the man's memory no honor.

-Ben

Well put, Ben. I want to add something to your comment "It is difficult if not impossible to
save someone bent on self-destruction if they don't want to be saved." Sometimes it isn't a
matter of not wanting to be saved, but one of a deeply (or even moderately) depressed person to
not realize there is another way. One frequent thought process in depressives is that "things
are written in stone", i.e. there -is- no other way than the way things are, and that nothing
can change the way they are.

--
tanx, Howard

"We're not laughing -at- you, we're laughing -with- you..) "But... I'm not
laughing???" Happiness

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Ken Papai said:

"Oscar Mannheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

maybe it was all the hatred and venom from Ken Papai that killed Pantani, but just maybe

Quoted message said:

know-nothing [censored].

Go Ken go!

Tom Kunich said:

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:n1QXb.320482$xy6.1553206@attbi_s02...

Quoted message said:

"Oscar Mannheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

maybe it was all the hatred and venom from Ken Papai that killed

Pantani,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but just maybe

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

know-nothing [censored].

Quoted message said:

Calm down Ken. Even Brian felt the need to remind everyone that Pantani screwed up his own career
when he might well have gone down into the record books on his natural ability.

Natural ability is more than lungs and legs. The really sad thing here is that there were warning
signs everywhere that Marco was a troubled person. Nobody intervened. At the elite level in any
sport there is an infrastructure at work providing everything necessary to maximize results.
Ignoring tangible mental illness in order to win a few races is inexcusable. I can't help but also
note the vicious gossip concerning Pantani while he was alive. Kind words post mortem help nobody...

Clovis Lark said:

Natural ability is more than lungs and legs. The really sad thing here is that there were warning
signs everywhere that Marco was a troubled person. Nobody intervened.

Apart from his entourage, many did, to worsen his state of mind.

Sergio Pisa

Sergio SERVADIO said:

Clovis Lark said:

Natural ability is more than lungs and legs. The really sad thing here is that there were warning
signs everywhere that Marco was a troubled person. Nobody intervened.

Quoted message said:

Apart from his entourage, many did, to worsen his state of mind.

Indeed. A lesson may be learned from the "one who got away". For many of us, Lance Armstrong was a
rude cocky boy who had alienated most everyone in the peloton. However, most of us really had no
idea who he was. We only saw race antics (we smirked when the rest of his group stopped riding in
Atlanta, effectively denying him any chance). But following his near death, a new person emerged.
Some of us were able to see how that person had been there all along, just obscured by youthful
brashness. He was loyal, he had shown compassion and depth of character following Cassartelli's
death. Unfortunately, nobody will get a chance to see that side of Pantani.

Quoted message said:

Sergio Pisa

"Oscar Mannheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Don't waste any keystrokes on this Ken, this is the same guy who posted a link to a virus
in RBR.

it was not a virus, it was a joke that I stole from another forum (alt.music.pink-floyd). The
"virus joke" was appreciated at that forum, not here though. I received some very hateful messages
via e-mail. I remember that one person, not Ken Papai, suggested that I should kill myself .

Waa! waa!

Mr Troll, do you live under a bridge?..

I can't believe your using this topic to score points.

Benjamin Weiner said:

(been there, done that)

🙁 i'm sorry.

hh