Pantani autopsy

Steve McGinty said:

As reported on BBC Radio 5 just now - his death was due to a heart attack, but he also suffered
"damaged lungs."

Now Eurosport news says

"Marco Pantani autopsy results suggest brain haemorrhage, but full disclosure will "take weeks,"
says medical examiner."

Regards! Stephen

Heart attack, damaged lungs???

How does a 34 year old professional athlete in the world's hardest endurance sport die from heart
attack and damaged lungs???

What are the precursors to these findings???

"Steve McGinty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As reported on BBC Radio 5 just now - his death was due to a heart attack, but he also suffered
"damaged lungs."

Regards! Stephen

"Steve McGinty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As reported on BBC Radio 5 just now - his death was due to a heart attack, but he also suffered
"damaged lungs."

Pretty much: "Cardiac arrest caused by a cerebral and pulmonary edema"

cyclingnews.comnews.phpOpen ↗

Jeff

Richard Longwood said:

Heart attack, damaged lungs???

How does a 34 year old professional athlete in the world's hardest endurance sport die from heart
attack and damaged lungs???

What are the precursors to these findings???

From Reuters

reuters.comnewsArticle.jhtmlOpen ↗

Investigation Into Pantani Death to 'Take Weeks' Mon February 16, 2004 12:38 PM ET

RIMINI, Italy (Reuters) - The investigation into the death of Italian cycling great Marco Pantani
will "take weeks," the pathologist who carried out the autopsy of the 34-year-old rider said Monday.
"The autopsy has finished but it is only the first of a long series of investigations. Samples taken
today will be analyzed to evaluate and complete the investigations," pathologist Giuseppe Fortuni
told reporters.

Fortuni said the only indications that had been gained from the autopsy related to bleeding in the
head and the lungs.

"Two elements have emerged -- bleeding in the brain and lungs. At this point, we can exclude
violence. The investigations will last several weeks.

"They are complex and only at the end will we be able to respond with certainty to what the judge
has asked us to report on -- the cause of death," he added.

Asked whether the death of Pantani, who was found in a Rimini hotel room Saturday could be linked
to a possible cocktail of drugs, Fortuni replied: "There is no sign of that but no way of excluding
it either.

"We will investigate everything. No hypothesis has been excluded"

Pantani won the Giro d'Italia and the Tour de France in 1998

Regards! Stephen

"Steve McGinty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Richard Longwood said:

Heart attack, damaged lungs???

How does a 34 year old professional athlete in the world's hardest

endurance

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sport die from heart attack and damaged lungs???

What are the precursors to these findings???

From Reuters

reuters.comnewsArticle.jhtmlOpen ↗

Investigation Into Pantani Death to 'Take Weeks' Mon February 16, 2004 12:38 PM ET

RIMINI, Italy (Reuters) - The investigation into the death of Italian cycling great Marco Pantani
will "take weeks," the pathologist who carried out the autopsy of the 34-year-old rider said
Monday. "The autopsy has finished but it is only the first of a long series of investigations.
Samples taken today will be analyzed to evaluate and complete the investigations," pathologist
Giuseppe Fortuni told reporters.

Fortuni said the only indications that had been gained from the autopsy related to bleeding in the
head and the lungs.

"Two elements have emerged -- bleeding in the brain and lungs. At this point, we can exclude
violence. The investigations will last several weeks.

I think there may be a translation problem here. Other reports have translated this as edema, not
bleeding, meaning fluid build up. There are lots of possible causes for leakage and hemorrhages. The
test results may show the etiology.

Any physicians out there want to address the possibility/non-possibility that this could be linked
to side effects from EPO, Insulin, or HGH abuse.

Any thoughts?

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Steve McGinty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Richard Longwood said:

Heart attack, damaged lungs???

How does a 34 year old professional athlete in the world's hardest

endurance

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sport die from heart attack and damaged lungs???

What are the precursors to these findings???

From Reuters

reuters.comnewsArticle.jhtmlOpen ↗

Investigation Into Pantani Death to 'Take Weeks' Mon February 16, 2004 12:38 PM ET

RIMINI, Italy (Reuters) - The investigation into the death of Italian cycling great Marco
Pantani will "take weeks," the pathologist who carried out the autopsy of the 34-year-old rider
said Monday. "The autopsy has finished but it is only the first of a long series of
investigations. Samples taken today will be analyzed to evaluate and complete the
investigations," pathologist Giuseppe Fortuni told reporters.

Fortuni said the only indications that had been gained from the autopsy related to bleeding in
the head and the lungs.

"Two elements have emerged -- bleeding in the brain and lungs. At this point, we can exclude
violence. The investigations will last several weeks.

I think there may be a translation problem here. Other reports have translated this as edema, not
bleeding, meaning fluid build up. There are lots of possible causes for leakage and hemorrhages.
The test results may show the etiology.

Any physicians out there want to address the possibility/non-possibility that this could be linked
to side effects from EPO, Insulin, or HGH abuse.

Quoted message said:

Pretty much: "Cardiac arrest caused by a cerebral and pulmonary edema"

They are only events, but not the cause.

The working out of what happened in some postmortems is difficult and can take a lot of
interpretation. About 5% of death remain mysterious with uncertain aetiolgy. I have experience of
these matters as I am a pathologist. I would suspect drugs one way or another in such a case.

Quoted message said:

Heart attack, damaged lungs???

How does a 34 year old professional athlete in the world's hardest

endurance

Quoted message said:

sport die from heart attack and damaged lungs???

What are the precursors to these findings???

and you thought all that EPO and THG you've been ingesting was harmless.

"Gearóid Ó Laoi/Garry Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pretty much: "Cardiac arrest caused by a cerebral and pulmonary edema"

They are only events, but not the cause.

The working out of what happened in some postmortems is difficult and can take a lot of
interpretation. About 5% of death remain mysterious with uncertain aetiolgy. I have experience of
these matters as I am a pathologist. I would suspect drugs one way or another in such a case.

As would I. I suspect an alergic reaction possibly to a recreational drug.

apparently he had gained 30-40 kgs in just a few months. that should do some damage, no?

"Van Hoorebeeck Bart" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

apparently he had gained 30-40 kgs in just a few months. that should do

some

Quoted message said:

damage, no?

Published reports of people who saw him in death say that he was thin to the point of looking
emaciated.

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Gearóid Ó Laoi/Garry Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pretty much: "Cardiac arrest caused by a cerebral and pulmonary edema"

They are only events, but not the cause.

The working out of what happened in some postmortems is difficult and

can

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

take a lot of interpretation. About 5% of death remain mysterious with uncertain aetiolgy. I
have experience of these matters as I am a pathologist. I would suspect drugs one way or another
in such a case.

As would I. I suspect an alergic reaction possibly to a recreational drug.

I had no idea that you were also a pathologist, Tom. I'm impressed!

"B. Lafferty" schreef:

Quoted message said:

"Van Hoorebeeck Bart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

apparently he had gained 30-40 kgs in just a few months. that should do

some

Quoted message said:

damage, no?

Published reports of people who saw him in death say that he was thin to the point of looking
emaciated.

Lucien Van Impe said he heard last week of the 30-40 kgs weigth gain.

"Van Hoorebeeck Bart" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" schreef:

Quoted message said:

"Van Hoorebeeck Bart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

apparently he had gained 30-40 kgs in just a few months. that should

do

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

some

Quoted message said:

damage, no?

Published reports of people who saw him in death say that he was thin to

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

point of looking emaciated.

Lucien Van Impe said he heard last week of the 30-40 kgs weigth gain.

There have been conflicting reports. The coroner no doubt weighed his body pre-autopsy so the
accurate weight will be known in time.

Steve McGinty <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

As reported on BBC Radio 5 just now - his death was due to a heart attack, but he also suffered
"damaged lungs."

Regards! Stephen

I'm not MD, but this clearly sounds like a drug related death. I think we're seeing the real side-
effects of long-term EPO ABUSE in the worst way. Pantani was also believed to have used steroids,
hGH and insulin. Hindsight being 20/20, the report of him being aloof, "out of it" before his death
is indicative of cerebral edema or hemmorhage; swelling can often lead to symtoms of intoxication.
It may be he was suffering from some symtoms of congestive heart failure.

While one can point their finger and say, "Ha! see Marco that's what you get...", I think it's still
sad to see such a talent go so soon.

The question is: Who will be next? Maybe Riis got out soon enough, but how many pro's out there are
worrying now that their careers are winding down?

Chris

"Gearóid Ó Laoi/Garry Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pretty much: "Cardiac arrest caused by a cerebral and pulmonary edema"

They are only events, but not the cause.

The working out of what happened in some postmortems is difficult and can take a lot of
interpretation. About 5% of death remain mysterious with uncertain aetiolgy. I have experience of
these matters as I am a pathologist. I would suspect drugs one way or another in such a case.

It's really a tragedy to see such a great rider die at such a young age. On the otherhand one cannot
discount a strong probablility that Pantani's death was linked to drug use. Cycling will have to
rexamine whether it's efforts to curb drug use have been successful. If not then what measures need
to be taken.

[email hidden] (chris) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Steve McGinty <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

As reported on BBC Radio 5 just now - his death was due to a heart attack, but he also suffered
"damaged lungs."

Regards! Stephen

I'm not MD, but this clearly sounds like a drug related death.

I'm not an MD either, but--

As I understand it, cerebral edema and pulmonary edema are a common finding in autopsies, without
necessarily being the cause of death. The process that causes death (whatever it might be) in many
cases produces the edema. So with the current information, it's not possible to say that brain or
lung edema was the root cause of Pantani's death. His lungs might well have been in perfect shape
the day before (or not).

So attributing his death to EPO or other performance-enhancing drugs is unfounded.

The reposts said he had apparently taken some quantity of several antidepressants. Some
antidepressants in large doses can (rarely) cause heart arrhythmia--Elavil is one. If Pantani had
actually taken the antiDs they think he did, it's plausible that an overdose or synergistic effect
caused his heart to stop.

It's also possible that he deliberately overdosed.

None of us knows, but it would really be a mistake to assume that doping had anything to do with his
death. (That's not the same as saying he didn't dope.)

It's a very sad ending to a striking career and, most of all, to a life.

Stella Hackell

"Charles Hizark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Gearóid Ó Laoi/Garry Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pretty much: "Cardiac arrest caused by a cerebral and pulmonary edema"

They are only events, but not the cause.

The working out of what happened in some postmortems is difficult and

can

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

take a lot of interpretation. About 5% of death remain mysterious with uncertain aetiolgy. I
have experience of these matters as I am a pathologist. I would suspect drugs one way or another
in such a case.

It's really a tragedy to see such a great rider die at such a young age. On the otherhand one
cannot discount a strong probablility that Pantani's death was linked to drug use. Cycling will
have to rexamine whether it's efforts to curb drug use have been successful. If not then what
measures need to be taken.

Remember that this might as well have been Jan Ullrich since he had taken Extasy. People seem to
think that drugs aren't dangerous anymore for some reason. I was in the hospital one time when there
was a guy there who died from an OD of CANNIBIS!

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Gearóid Ó Laoi/Garry Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> Pretty much: "Cardiac arrest caused by a cerebral and pulmonary

edema"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They are only events, but not the cause.

The working out of what happened in some postmortems is difficult and

can

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

take a lot of interpretation. About 5% of death remain mysterious with uncertain aetiolgy. I
have experience of these matters as I am a pathologist. I would suspect drugs one way or
another in such a case.

As would I. I suspect an alergic reaction possibly to a recreational

drug.

Quoted message said:

I had no idea that you were also a pathologist, Tom. I'm impressed!

I had a brother who could recite all of the reactions to drugs possible. Until one of them
got to him.