panniers vs trailers

Richard Goodman said:

So what's the panel's opinion for carrying a good amount of
luggage? Which is better for going up and down big hills
(on road, as in, like, maybe, the alps on self supported
touring) - a bike loaded with front and rear panniers
attached to the frame/forks or dragging a trailer with all
the weight on that?

Take panniers.

Drag on a bicycle comes from two sources: friction between
tyres and ground, and wind resistance. With a trailer you
have four tyres in contact with the ground not two and
additional wind resistance will be similar with a trailer
or panniers. Plus, you have the additional hazard of a
possible jackknife if you pull a trailer, especially a
loaded trailer.

"Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Richard Goodman said:

So what's the panel's opinion for carrying a good amount
of luggage?

Which

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is better for going up and down big hills (on road, as
in, like, maybe,

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

alps on self supported touring) - a bike loaded with
front and rear

panniers

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

attached to the frame/forks or dragging a trailer with
all the weight on that?

Take panniers.

Drag on a bicycle comes from two sources: friction between
tyres and ground, and wind resistance. With a trailer you
have four tyres in contact with the ground not two and
additional wind resistance will be similar with a trailer
or panniers. Plus, you have the additional hazard of a
possible jackknife if you pull a trailer, especially a
loaded trailer.

Yes, the possibility of jackknife worries me a bit - the
thought of a trailer trying to overtake the bike going down
a mountain pass is a bit scary. Does anyone do trailers with
brakes? I was thinking of a bob-yak in preference to
anything else, which only involves three wheels rather than
four, although I don't rate factors of friction and wind
resistance that highly compared to the thought of just
having to lift the extra weight over the hills ! On that
score the trailer would surely be heavier than a couple of
racks. But my main issue is really about handling. And I
suppose about getting things on trains as well... Hmm... is
there much choice?

Rich

In message <[email hidden]>,
Gonzalez <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Richard Goodman said:

So what's the panel's opinion for carrying a good amount
of luggage? Which is better for going up and down big
hills (on road, as in, like, maybe, the alps on self
supported touring) - a bike loaded with front and rear
panniers attached to the frame/forks or dragging a trailer
with all the weight on that?

Take panniers.

In general , yes I'd agree.

Quoted message said:

Drag on a bicycle comes from two sources: friction between
tyres and ground, and wind resistance. With a trailer you
have four tyres in contact with the ground not two

Unless it's a BOB type, when it'll be three :-)

Quoted message said:

and additional wind resistance will be similar with a
trailer or panniers. Plus, you have the additional hazard
of a possible jackknife if you pull a trailer, especially
a loaded trailer.

Having towed a heavily laden load carrying trailer (at least
80 Kg on occasions) and regularly towing my kiddie trailer,
I don't think this is a real problem. Exp. with trailers
that fit to near the rear hub. When the Columbus was heavily
laden then you had a to take a little care because it mounts
on the seat tube but it was ok.

With loads of the sort you might take camping on a BOB I
wouldn't expect any problem at all. The combined weight of
my kiddie trailer +kiddie + the usual bit of shopping etc.
is easily 30+ kg and is no problem to handle at all.

But that bye the bye, unless there is a good reason to use a
trailer then I would certainly recommend using panniers if
possible. Though I've only really used two wheel trailers
I've never tried a BOB, expect for a short spin.

some reasons I can see for using a trailer might be:

1. Difficult to mount suitable racks to carry enough load -
full suspension bikes, some recumbents, road bikes etc.

2. need to carry a fair bit of gear - couples camping on
tandems etc.

3. Vanity - not wanting to spoil the lines of a bike :-)

4. a bike that doesn't handle loads very well.
--
Chris French, Leeds

"Richard Goodman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So what's the panel's opinion for carrying a good amount
of luggage? Which is better for going up and down big
hills (on road, as in, like, maybe,

the

Quoted message said:

alps on self supported touring) - a bike loaded with front
and rear

panniers

Quoted message said:

attached to the frame/forks or dragging a trailer with all
the weight on that?

I reckon it depends on the bike and the weight. If the bike
will carry the weight and not flex like a floppy thing with
floppyitis then loading the bike makes good sense. If the
bike is less stiff, or if there is a lot of weight, then a
trailer is a good call.

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
Washington University

in message <[email hidden]>, Richard Goodman

(') said:

So what's the panel's opinion for carrying a good amount
of luggage? Which is better for going up and down big
hills (on road, as in, like, maybe, the alps on self
supported touring) - a bike loaded with front and rear
panniers attached to the frame/forks or dragging a trailer
with all the weight on that?

I'm a great believer in trailers. At the end of the day when
you reach your destination you undo one hitch and you have a
light, uncluttered bike to go for a spin on. When you need
to get the bike on or off a train you have two manageable
loads to handle rather than one very heavy one. The trailer
is hugely visible on the road and cars give you a wide
berth. There are no straps to snag your foot or go into the
spokes. The balance and steering of the bike are relatively
unaffected. And they look a lot tidier.

Having said all that, I have in the past always had two-
wheel trailers. I'm currently looking for a one-wheel one.
The reason is that on very fast downhill bends with high
cornering loads some two wheel trailers can capsize and then
life gets very interesting. I've never actually come off the
bike because of this, but I nevertheless suspect one-wheel
trailers are better.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗ Just as defying the law of
gravity through building aircraft requires careful design
and a lot of effort, so too does defying laws of economics.
It seems to be a deeply ingrained aspect of humanity to
forever strive to improve things, so unquestioning
acceptance of a free market system seems to me to be
unnatural. ;; Charles Bryant

Just zis Guy said:

I reckon it depends on the bike and the weight. If the
bike will carry the weight and not flex like a floppy
thing with floppyitis then loading the bike makes good
sense. If the bike is less stiff, or if there is a lot of
weight, then a trailer is a good call.

Though if the bike /is/ wobblier than Mr Wobbly's wobblier
little brother, some trailers may behave badly. This
particularly manifests itself to Dark Siders whose machines
lack conventional rear triangles, in the form of evil
snaking and attempts to pitch the rig into the back of the
nearest bus, but I imagine that it might also affect more
conventional frames made from spaghetti, cheese or other
unsuitable stuff.

Two-wheeled trailers seem better than one-wheelers in
this regard.

--

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

"Richard Goodman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Plus, you have the additional hazard of a possible
jackknife if you pull a trailer, especially a loaded
trailer.

Yes, the possibility of jackknife worries me a bit - the
thought of a trailer trying to overtake the bike going
down a mountain pass is a bit scary.

I've not heard of anybody having jackknifing problems with a
bob-style trailer. (2 wheels have overturning as the issue).
Certainly ours has behaved impeccably both on and off road
behind the tandem, including some mountains. (which may of
course be more resistant to such things)

cheers, clive

in message <[email hidden]>, Richard Goodman

(') said:

"Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Richard Goodman said:

So what's the panel's opinion for carrying a good amount
of luggage?

Which

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is better for going up and down big hills (on road, as
in, like, maybe,

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

alps on self supported touring) - a bike loaded with
front and rear

panniers

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

attached to the frame/forks or dragging a trailer with
all the weight on that?

Take panniers.

Drag on a bicycle comes from two sources: friction
between tyres and ground, and wind resistance. With a
trailer you have four tyres in contact with the ground
not two and additional wind resistance will be similar
with a trailer or panniers. Plus, you have the additional
hazard of a possible jackknife if you pull a trailer,
especially a loaded trailer.

Yes, the possibility of jackknife worries me a bit - the
thought of a trailer trying to overtake the bike going
down a mountain pass is a bit scary.

Doesn't happen. I've done lots of miles with heavily laden
trailers on bikes including some *very* fast downhills. I've
never had a jack-knife. What I have had is trailers over-
turning on fast downhill bends, and that's not amusing - but
it's never yet had me off. I believe one-wheel trilers (Yak,
etc) should solve this problem and plan to get one.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗ ;; Our modern industrial
economy takes a mountain covered with trees, ;; lakes,
running streams and transforms it into a mountain of junk,
;; garbage, slime pits, and debris. -- Edward Abbey

In "]news:[email hidden],

Quoted message said:

"Richard Goodman" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Plus, you have the additional hazard of a possible
jackknife if you pull a trailer, especially a loaded
trailer.

Yes, the possibility of jackknife worries me a bit - the
thought of a trailer trying to overtake the bike going
down a mountain pass is a bit scary.

I've not heard of anybody having jackknifing problems
with a bob-style trailer. (2 wheels have overturning as
the issue).

I've had it with an unladen one, going fast on a bit of
towpath with sharp turns that was being remade. A worst case
scenario, I guess.

A

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:30:48 -0000 someone who may be "Richard
Goodman" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

So what's the panel's opinion for carrying a good amount
of luggage?

Don't do it. Reduce the amount of luggage.

Trailers are perhaps slightly worse as they encourage taking
more things.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number
F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK
government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

[email hidden] schreef ...

Quoted message said:

some reasons I can see for using a trailer might be:

1. Difficult to mount suitable racks to carry enough
load - full suspension bikes, some recumbents, road
bikes etc.

Be careful with trailers behind full suspension bikes. On
many a F/S bike, the suspension is designed to deal with a
(roughly) vertical load, not with a horizontal one. And a
trailer puts a fair horizontal load on the bicycle!

Quoted message said:

2. need to carry a fair bit of gear - couples camping on
tandems etc.

Until last year, we took all we needed in four large
panniers (2 Ortlieb, 2 Karrimor) plus a canoe bag on top of
the luggage rack. Last year we took our little dog along in
its basket on top of the rack so we switched to a BOB Yak
plus the large front panniers. The net result: *less* space
than with the original setup ......... Compare the pictures
of the same bike at
tandemclub.nltandem vakantie.htmlOpen ↗ (one
at the top, one at the bottom of this page)

Quoted message said:

3. Vanity - not wanting to spoil the lines of a bike :-)

I like that one!

--
Regards, Marten www.tandemclub.nl

Reply to Dave Larrington

Quoted message said:

Though if the bike /is/ wobblier than Mr Wobbly's wobblier
little brother, some trailers may behave badly. This
particularly manifests itself to Dark Siders whose
machines lack conventional rear triangles, in the form of
evil snaking and attempts to pitch the rig into the back
of the nearest bus, but I imagine that it might also
affect more conventional frames made from spaghetti,
cheese or other unsuitable stuff.

When I was *really* young and foolish I gave the crappy
<80UKP plastic-box-type trailer from the LBS a trial run: I
fixed it securely to the seatpost, drove it to Safeways
empty without problem, loaded it up with all those essential
food groups - plain-chocolate Hob Nobs, red wine, coffee, &c
- and started back.

As I accelerated past c.15mph, I experienced about a second
of rapidly increasing wobble - about enough time to think
"Hmmmm, feels like some positive feedback going on somewhere
-" before the thing overturned. Coffee and rice all over the
road, and the end of the trailer's brief career. Put me off
trailers entirely, although I know that's irrational.
Panniers every time, now.

The moral is probably that if you're going to try a
trailer, don't try a crappy <80UKP one. Especially if it
comes in a big cardboard box bearing a picture of a happy
family having a picnic.

--
Mark, UK. Nobody can be lucky all the time; so when your
luck deserts you in some fashion don't think you've been
abandoned in your prime but rather that you're saving up
your ration.