Panniers and touring...

basjan said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring,
planning a 6 week trip in Europe and week-long stints here
and there: What size and kind of panniers, size and type,
would be best suited?

I use Ortliebs, which are ugly, expensive and heavy; but
also robust and totally waterproof.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]>
Distortion Field!

David Damerell said:

basjan said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring,
planning a 6 week trip in Europe and week-long stints here
and there: What size and kind of panniers, size and type,
would be best suited?

I use Ortliebs, which are ugly, expensive and heavy; but
also robust and totally waterproof.

Is it best to balance the load with front and rear
panniers? The reason I ask is that when I load more than 40
LBS on my rear rack the front wheel tends to lift when I
get off the bike.

"basjan" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring,
planning a 6 week

trip

Quoted message said:

in Europe and week-long stints here and there: What size
and kind of panniers, size and type, would be best suited?
Are the Nashbar panniers, for instance, worth the buy:

<<snip link to cheap panniers>

Quoted message said:

or should I rather go for something like the Delta
panniers at Harris Cyclery

<snip link to panniers

I will likely have to cart a lot, since my wife will be
going along and I usually take most of the stuff.

I am leaning towards the Delta panniers, mainly because I
am not sure how the Nashbar ones attach. I like the idea
of one bag per side, attached

via

Quoted message said:

hook to the rack, while I could still perhaps fit a
tent/sleeping pads,

etc.

Quoted message said:

on top of the rear panniers.

Any inputs would be very much appreciated!

Thanks

Jan

I'm going to second the recommendation for Ortlieb
panniers. They are indeed extremely waterproof, extremely
well made, and the attachment system is excellent. Very
easy to put on/take off the bike, very secure, and the
attachment hooks can be slid back and forth to fine tune
the position of the panniers on the bike. I just got back
from a month in the UK, including 3 weeks in Scotland.
People there have far more experience than most Americans
with cycling in the rain, and Ortlieb panniers seemed to be
the pannier of choice.

If you're going to take camping gear, consider front and
rear panniers, which distribute the load more evenly between
the front and back of the bike.

If you're going to take most of the gear for yourself and
your wife, are you sure you want to camp? I carried camping
gear through Scotland and I'm not sure I would do it again-
it was a lot of [censored] to carry across the Atlantic and back,
it definitely limited my mobility, and the campgrounds I
stayed in really weren't too much cheaper than the youth
hostels. The hostels were distinctly more pleasant, too, at
least the ones I stayed in.
--
mark

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:

[panniers]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I use Ortliebs, which are ugly, expensive and heavy; but
also robust and totally waterproof.

Is it best to balance the load with front and rear
panniers? The reason I ask is that when I load more than 40
LBS on my rear rack the front wheel tends to lift when I
get off the bike.

Fortunately my bike has sufficiently long chainstays that
the CoG of the load is not far behind the rear axle, so this
is not an issue. I suspect it really depends on whether or
not this is the case - if you have big feet and a 26" wheel
bike with short chainstays you may want some of the load up
front, but on a traditional-geometry 700C or 27" tourer it
is not going to be an issue.

I wouldn't carry extra panniers unless it was necessary. One
solution for your problem might be a saddlebag, which could
move some of the load to just forward of the rear axle, but
that might be sufficient.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]>
Distortion Field!

"basjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring,
planning a 6 week trip in Europe and week-long stints here
and there: What size and kind of panniers, size and type,
would be best suited? Are the Nashbar panniers, for
instance, worth the buy:

This is the best site I have seen for pannier comparisons:

lancerushing.companniers.cfmOpen ↗

I went with the Jandd Large Mountain panniers about 3 years
ago and have been happy with them. They are not absolutely
waterproof, but I've ridden with them for 40 miles through a
constant rain and things have remained dry. I got a smaller,
cheaper set for the front and lined them with trash bags.

You're going to get about a 1000 different correct
answers here.

I prefer Jandd and Arkel panniers. They're built like tanks,
and really go the distance.

Size is dependant on how much you're taking. Take a look at
a front/rear combo, they all give cubic-inch specs. A total
around 4-6000 is usually very sufficient for going fully
loaded. I would strongly recommend you take four panniers,
versus two, your bike will handle dramatically better with
it balanced this way.

I've ridden about 1200 miles with a camping load in just
rear panniers as you describe, and about 15,000 with fronts
and rears, I'd never do the former again...

One other thing you might want to consider is a handlebar
bag, for items such as your camera, bear-spray (if you're in
such areas), and other items you want to access quickly.

-pete

"basjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring,
planning a 6 week

trip

Quoted message said:

in Europe and week-long stints here and there: What size
and kind of panniers, size and type, would be best suited?
Are the Nashbar panniers, for instance, worth the buy:

nashbar.comprofile.cfmOpen ↗
1004&brand=&sku=6997&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

Quoted message said:

or should I rather go for something like the Delta
panniers at Harris Cyclery

harriscyclery.netpage.cfmOpen ↗
U=BG8022

I will likely have to cart a lot, since my wife will be
going along and I usually take most of the stuff.

I am leaning towards the Delta panniers, mainly because I
am not sure how the Nashbar ones attach. I like the idea
of one bag per side, attached

via

Quoted message said:

hook to the rack, while I could still perhaps fit a
tent/sleeping pads,

etc.

Quoted message said:

on top of the rear panniers.

Any inputs would be very much appreciated!

Thanks

Jan

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

David Damerell said:

basjan said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring,
planning a 6 week trip in Europe and week-long stints
here and there: What size and kind of panniers, size and
type, would be best suited?

I use Ortliebs, which are ugly, expensive and heavy; but
also robust and totally waterproof.

Is it best to balance the load with front and rear
panniers? The reason I ask is that when I load more than
40 LBS on my rear rack the front wheel tends to lift when
I get off the bike.

I like having a lot of the load in the front. I find that
the bike handles better (and during day trips, I'll keep
only front panniers) with much of the load in the front.

Whitfit

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring,
planning a 6 week trip in Europe and week-long stints here
and there: What size and kind of panniers, size and type,
would be best suited? Are the Nashbar panniers, for
instance, worth the buy:

nashbar.comprofile.cfmOpen ↗
y=1004&brand=&sku=6997&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

or should I rather go for something like the Delta
panniers at Harris Cyclery

harriscyclery.netpage.cfmOpen ↗
U=BG8022

I will likely have to cart a lot, since my wife will be
going along and I usually take most of the stuff.

I am leaning towards the Delta panniers, mainly because I
am not sure how the Nashbar ones attach. I like the idea
of one bag per side, attached via hook to the rack, while
I could still perhaps fit a tent/sleeping pads, etc. on
top of the rear panniers.

Any inputs would be very much appreciated!

Thanks

Jan

I'm sure many panniers will work for you - I use Ortlieb
roll tops and I'm very happy with them. (and our little tent
fits between the tops of my wife's panniers fore and aft and
the double sleeping bag does the same on mine).

More important as a rookie might be your plan "to likely
have to cart a lot". I find that the enjoyment of a tour
depends on carrying very little. Remind your wife that she
will be in a different place each day, so she can wear the
same outfit for the whole trip! Also, especially as this is
a first trip, I would recommend picking just one area, so
that you are not spending so much of your holiday packing
bikes and waiting for trains/airplanes etc. My wife and I
had a delightful tour of country France for five weeks a few
years ago. We took very lightweight camping gear as an
insurance and used it for some of the time (excellent
camping areas in France) but very often used small hotels
and rooms we found along the way. Don't take any stoves etc.
for France as you will really enjoy their small restaurants,
shops and bars. We ambled over about 2500Km starting in
Normandy, inland down to the Dordogne (sp?) to Bordeaux, up
the Atlantic coast, through Brittanny and left from St Malo.
The Michelin maps show you all the minor roads you need and
the local drivers are good to cyclists.

We hope to go back next year.

Bruce Graham

I'd suggest front & rear panniers, and for trips to Europe
try using hostels and hotels. Part of the joy is meeting the
small town folk and it's easier to do that in town at the
end of the day.

And I also agree with taking as little as possible.

Bruce

basjan said:

I am leaning towards the Delta panniers, mainly because I
am not sure how the Nashbar ones attach. I like the idea of
one bag per side, attached via hook to the rack, while I
could still perhaps fit a tent/sleeping pads, etc. on top
of the rear panniers.

I'm running a set of the Delta panniers (and top box
occasionally), on a seatpost mount, and couldn't be much
happier with 'em. They are NOT waterproof, though riding in
the Arizona desert, that's not really much of an issue. My
configuration limits the load to about 25 pounds, but I like
the utility of a "quick disconnect" rack.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of
the $695 ti frame

David Damerell said:

basjan said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring,
planning a 6 week trip in Europe and week-long stints
here and there: What size and kind of panniers, size and
type, would be best suited?

I use Ortliebs, which are ugly, expensive and heavy; but
also robust and totally waterproof.

Seconded. In fact, I use my bicycle Ortliebs on my
motorcycle also. Absolutely no problems, even on rough
surfaces and high speed.

--
Ted Bennett Portland OR

I have the Beckman panniers and found them to be top notch.
I toured the US and Canada for 4 weeks with them.

basjan said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring,
planning a 6 week trip in Europe and week-long stints here
and there: What size and kind of panniers, size and type,
would be best suited? ...

Any inputs would be very much appreciated!

FWIW, I used panniers from Performance for a coast-to-coast
tour last year. They were ok, I guess, but not outstanding.

The first set that arrived had some problems with the
mounting hooks, and had to be returned. Performance promptly
replaced them.

The mounting arrangement is simple and low-tech (metal hooks
top, buckle & strap bottom) but it's slightly clumsy digging
around at the wheel side of the pannier to loosen the strap.
There are better arrangements, if you want to pay for them.

They come with built in rain covers that stow in a bottom
pocket. The rain covers probably help, but the panniers
aren't water proof. (I think only the very best are
really waterproof.) But I'm used to putting everything in
plastic bags.

I used to use a set of Specialized Tailwind panniers, and
still will, for shorter trips. These are smaller and a neat
sort of airfoil shape. They really do lessen your air
resistance. By contrast, the Performance panniers are un-
streamlined, with lots of external pockets and protrusions.
I suppose it's not a big deal, but I'm kind of an
aerodynamics freak. OTOH, I found having lots of pockets
good for organizing - at least, once I got consistent at
putting things back where they came from!

I'd definitely use front & rear panniers, if you've got a
significant load. The rear wheel strength of many bikes is
marginal with just the rider weight. The front wheel is
lightly loaded. In fact, for some short tours, I've used
only front panniers, no rear.

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot
com. Substitute cc dot ysu dot edu]

------------ And now a word from our sponsor ------------------
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Ted Bennett said:

Seconded. In fact, I use my bicycle Ortliebs on my
motorcycle also. Absolutely no problems, even on rough
surfaces and high speed.

ortliebs are certainly nice. what i don't like about 'em is
they're just one stuff sack. no compartments for organizing
or fast access (wallet, tools .. i dont't use a handlebar
bag). i use madden mountaineering (oops, are they gone?)
mountaineering panniers and i would really miss that
feature. the maddens lack the (much superior) waterproofness
of the ortliebs but they weren't too bad (iow, my stuff
didn't get more than damp in oregon).

one of the guys i toured with loved the ortliebs as well.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

"David Reuteler" wrote

Quoted message said:

ortliebs are certainly nice. what i don't like about 'em
is they're just one stuff sack. no compartments for
organizing or fast access (wallet,

tools

Quoted message said:

.. i dont't use a handlebar bag). i use madden
mountaineering (oops, are

they

Quoted message said:

gone?) mountaineering panniers and i would really miss
that feature. the maddens lack the (much superior)
waterproofness of the ortliebs but they weren't too bad
(iow, my stuff didn't get more than damp in oregon).

one of the guys i toured with loved the ortliebs as well.
--
david reuteler

You can always use stuff sacks to organize, or big zip-
lock bags.
--
mark

David Reuteler said:

Ted Bennett said:

Seconded. In fact, I use my bicycle Ortliebs on my
motorcycle also. Absolutely no problems, even on rough
surfaces and high speed.

ortliebs are certainly nice. what i don't like about 'em
is they're just one stuff sack. no compartments for
organizing or fast access (wallet, tools .. i dont't use a
handlebar bag).

Unless you mount some of the side pockets, which admittedly
make Ortliebs more expensive, heavy, and ugly. I have one
for puncture and lighting spares.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill
the tomato!

search bike.tech for DIY touring bags buy ballistic nylon
only! tie(with cord) water jugs on the racks sides then when
yawl fall...

nashbar.comprofile.cfmOpen ↗

I used these panniers back in 1992 for a 4,000 mile summer
trip around Europe. Front and rear. Nashbar ATB panniers.
Worked fine. I've used them a few times for loaded tours
since. About three trips over about 5 weeks and 2,000 miles.
They still look about like new.

The idea of spending hundreds of dollars for supposedly high
end panniers that are used one week out of every three years
does not seem too economically rational to me.

I organize everything in clear zip loc bags inside the
panniers so I can see everything and know where it is at.
And then I stuff all the zip loc bags in a big garbage bag
inside the pannier. Can't get much more waterproof than
that. I've never gotten excited about waterproof panniers
like Ortleib.

The large one pocket style, like the Nashbar ATB or the
Ortleib or the Delta you referenced, are not ideal for rear
panniers. If you have a ten and sleeping bag and sleeping
pad strapped on your rear rack, you cannot get into the top
of your large on epocket style pannier. You really need the
traditional side entry multi pocket pannier for the rear. Or
you have to remove the tent, sleeping bag, and sleeping pad
whenever you need to get into the rear panniers. Or plan
ahead as best as possible and try not to have anything you
will need during the riding day in the rear panniers.

"basjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring,
planning a 6 week trip in Europe and week-long stints here
and there: What size and kind of panniers, size and type,
would be best suited? Are the Nashbar panniers, for
instance, worth the buy:

nashbar.comprofile.cfmOpen ↗
y=1004&brand=&sku=6997&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

or should I rather go for something like the Delta
panniers at Harris Cyclery

harriscyclery.netpage.cfmOpen ↗
U=BG8022

I will likely have to cart a lot, since my wife will be
going along and I usually take most of the stuff.

I am leaning towards the Delta panniers, mainly because I
am not sure how the Nashbar ones attach. I like the idea
of one bag per side, attached via hook to the rack, while
I could still perhaps fit a tent/sleeping pads, etc. on
top of the rear panniers.

Any inputs would be very much appreciated!

Thanks

Jan

In article said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring,
planning a 6 week trip in Europe and week-long stints here
and there: What size and kind of panniers, size and type,
would be best suited? Are the Nashbar panniers, for
instance, worth the buy:

Jandd Large Mountain panniers on the back and Ortlieb
backrollers on the front are a good combo. The Jandd aren't
fully water proof so you have to consider what you put in
there, but you can count on the Ortliebs to keep things dry
as long as you don't put something wet in there. The Jandds
are well made and large.

Some panniers extend a little above the rack, these could be
a problem on the back if you are carrying a tent on top of
them. All the panniers that I've looked at that have rain
covers extend above the rack (I don't think much of rain
covers anyway, they are just another system to maintain).
The Jandd panniers do not extend above the rack.

Make sure your chain stays, rack, feet and pannier
combination are compatible (short stayed bikes can give you
"heel strike" on the panniers).

I prefer the top loading type pannier, you can (almost)
always get something else in there. The Jandd Large Mountain
panniers take that to an exteme that I've never taken full
advantage of.

Tom Gibb <[email hidden]