Panniers and touring...

basjan said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring, planning a 6 week trip
in Europe and week-long stints here and there: What size and kind of
panniers, size and type, would be best suited?

I use Ortliebs, which are ugly, expensive and heavy; but also robust and
totally waterproof.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

David Damerell said:

basjan said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring, planning a 6 week trip
in Europe and week-long stints here and there: What size and kind of
panniers, size and type, would be best suited?

I use Ortliebs, which are ugly, expensive and heavy; but also robust and
totally waterproof.

Is it best to balance the load with front and rear panniers? The
reason I ask is that when I load more than 40 LBS on my rear rack the
front wheel tends to lift when I get off the bike.

"basjan" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring, planning a 6 week

trip

Quoted message said:

in Europe and week-long stints here and there: What size and kind of
panniers, size and type, would be best suited? Are the Nashbar panniers,
for instance, worth the buy:

<<snip link to cheap panniers>

Quoted message said:

or should I rather go for something like the Delta panniers at Harris
Cyclery

<snip link to panniers

I will likely have to cart a lot, since my wife will be going along and I
usually take most of the stuff.

I am leaning towards the Delta panniers, mainly because I am not sure how
the Nashbar ones attach. I like the idea of one bag per side, attached

via

Quoted message said:

hook to the rack, while I could still perhaps fit a tent/sleeping pads,

etc.

Quoted message said:

on top of the rear panniers.

Any inputs would be very much appreciated!

Thanks

Jan

I'm going to second the recommendation for Ortlieb panniers. They are indeed
extremely waterproof, extremely well made, and the attachment system is
excellent. Very easy to put on/take off the bike, very secure, and the
attachment hooks can be slid back and forth to fine tune the position of the
panniers on the bike. I just got back from a month in the UK, including 3
weeks in Scotland. People there have far more experience than most Americans
with cycling in the rain, and Ortlieb panniers seemed to be the pannier of
choice.

If you're going to take camping gear, consider front and rear panniers,
which distribute the load more evenly between the front and back of the
bike.

If you're going to take most of the gear for yourself and your wife, are you
sure you want to camp? I carried camping gear through Scotland and I'm not
sure I would do it again- it was a lot of [censored] to carry across the Atlantic
and back, it definitely limited my mobility, and the campgrounds I stayed in
really weren't too much cheaper than the youth hostels. The hostels were
distinctly more pleasant, too, at least the ones I stayed in.
--
mark

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:

[panniers]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I use Ortliebs, which are ugly, expensive and heavy; but also robust and
totally waterproof.

Is it best to balance the load with front and rear panniers? The
reason I ask is that when I load more than 40 LBS on my rear rack the
front wheel tends to lift when I get off the bike.

Fortunately my bike has sufficiently long chainstays that the CoG of the
load is not far behind the rear axle, so this is not an issue. I suspect
it really depends on whether or not this is the case - if you have big
feet and a 26" wheel bike with short chainstays you may want some of the
load up front, but on a traditional-geometry 700C or 27" tourer it is not
going to be an issue.

I wouldn't carry extra panniers unless it was necessary. One solution for
your problem might be a saddlebag, which could move some of the load to
just forward of the rear axle, but that might be sufficient.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

"basjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring, planning a 6 week trip
in Europe and week-long stints here and there: What size and kind of
panniers, size and type, would be best suited? Are the Nashbar panniers,
for instance, worth the buy:

This is the best site I have seen for pannier comparisons:

http://www.lancerushing.com/bicycling/panniers.cfm

I went with the Jandd Large Mountain panniers about 3 years ago and
have been happy with them. They are not absolutely waterproof, but
I've ridden with them for 40 miles through a constant rain and things
have remained dry. I got a smaller, cheaper set for the front and
lined them with trash bags.

You're going to get about a 1000 different correct answers here.

I prefer Jandd and Arkel panniers. They're built like tanks, and really go
the distance.

Size is dependant on how much you're taking. Take a look at a front/rear
combo, they all give cubic-inch specs. A total around 4-6000 is usually
very sufficient for going fully loaded.
I would strongly recommend you take four panniers, versus two, your bike
will handle dramatically better with it balanced this way.

I've ridden about 1200 miles with a camping load in just rear panniers as
you describe, and about 15,000 with fronts and rears, I'd never do the
former again...

One other thing you might want to consider is a handlebar bag, for items
such as your camera, bear-spray (if you're in such areas), and other items
you want to access quickly.

-pete

"basjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring, planning a 6 week

trip

Quoted message said:

in Europe and week-long stints here and there: What size and kind of
panniers, size and type, would be best suited? Are the Nashbar panniers,
for instance, worth the buy:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=66&subcategory=1004&brand=&sku=6997&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

Quoted message said:

or should I rather go for something like the Delta panniers at Harris
Cyclery

http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&SKU=BG8022

I will likely have to cart a lot, since my wife will be going along and I
usually take most of the stuff.

I am leaning towards the Delta panniers, mainly because I am not sure how
the Nashbar ones attach. I like the idea of one bag per side, attached

via

Quoted message said:

hook to the rack, while I could still perhaps fit a tent/sleeping pads,

etc.

Quoted message said:

on top of the rear panniers.

Any inputs would be very much appreciated!

Thanks

Jan

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

David Damerell said:

basjan said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring, planning a 6 week trip
in Europe and week-long stints here and there: What size and kind of
panniers, size and type, would be best suited?

I use Ortliebs, which are ugly, expensive and heavy; but also robust and
totally waterproof.

Is it best to balance the load with front and rear panniers? The
reason I ask is that when I load more than 40 LBS on my rear rack the
front wheel tends to lift when I get off the bike.

I like having a lot of the load in the front. I find that the bike
handles better (and during day trips, I'll keep only front panniers)
with much of the load in the front.

Whitfit

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring, planning a 6 week trip
in Europe and week-long stints here and there: What size and kind of
panniers, size and type, would be best suited? Are the Nashbar panniers,
for instance, worth the buy:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=66&subcategory=1004&brand=&sku=6997&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

or should I rather go for something like the Delta panniers at Harris
Cyclery

http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&SKU=BG8022

I will likely have to cart a lot, since my wife will be going along and I
usually take most of the stuff.

I am leaning towards the Delta panniers, mainly because I am not sure how
the Nashbar ones attach. I like the idea of one bag per side, attached via
hook to the rack, while I could still perhaps fit a tent/sleeping pads, etc.
on top of the rear panniers.

Any inputs would be very much appreciated!

Thanks

Jan

I'm sure many panniers will work for you - I use Ortlieb roll tops and
I'm very happy with them. (and our little tent fits between the tops of
my wife's panniers fore and aft and the double sleeping bag does the same
on mine).

More important as a rookie might be your plan "to likely have to cart a
lot". I find that the enjoyment of a tour depends on carrying very
little. Remind your wife that she will be in a different place each day,
so she can wear the same outfit for the whole trip! Also, especially as
this is a first trip, I would recommend picking just one area, so that
you are not spending so much of your holiday packing bikes and waiting
for trains/airplanes etc. My wife and I had a delightful tour of country
France for five weeks a few years ago. We took very lightweight camping
gear as an insurance and used it for some of the time (excellent camping
areas in France) but very often used small hotels and rooms we found
along the way. Don't take any stoves etc. for France as you will really
enjoy their small restaurants, shops and bars. We ambled over about
2500Km starting in Normandy, inland down to the Dordogne (sp?) to
Bordeaux, up the Atlantic coast, through Brittanny and left from St Malo.
The Michelin maps show you all the minor roads you need and the local
drivers are good to cyclists.

We hope to go back next year.

Bruce Graham

I'd suggest front & rear panniers, and for trips to Europe try using hostels
and hotels. Part of the joy is meeting the small town folk and it's easier
to do that in town at the end of the day.

And I also agree with taking as little as possible.

Bruce

basjan said:

I am leaning towards the Delta panniers, mainly because I am not sure how
the Nashbar ones attach. I like the idea of one bag per side, attached via
hook to the rack, while I could still perhaps fit a tent/sleeping pads, etc.
on top of the rear panniers.

I'm running a set of the Delta panniers (and top box occasionally), on
a seatpost mount, and couldn't be much happier with 'em. They are NOT
waterproof, though riding in the Arizona desert, that's not really
much of an issue. My configuration limits the load to about 25
pounds, but I like the utility of a "quick disconnect" rack.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

David Damerell said:

basjan said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring, planning a 6 week trip
in Europe and week-long stints here and there: What size and kind of
panniers, size and type, would be best suited?

I use Ortliebs, which are ugly, expensive and heavy; but also robust and
totally waterproof.

Seconded. In fact, I use my bicycle Ortliebs on my motorcycle also.
Absolutely no problems, even on rough surfaces and high speed.

--
Ted Bennett
Portland OR

I have the Beckman panniers and found them to be top notch. I toured
the US and Canada for 4 weeks with them.

basjan said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring, planning a 6 week trip
in Europe and week-long stints here and there: What size and kind of
panniers, size and type, would be best suited? ...

Any inputs would be very much appreciated!

FWIW, I used panniers from Performance for a coast-to-coast tour last
year. They were ok, I guess, but not outstanding.

The first set that arrived had some problems with the mounting hooks,
and had to be returned. Performance promptly replaced them.

The mounting arrangement is simple and low-tech (metal hooks top, buckle
& strap bottom) but it's slightly clumsy digging around at the wheel
side of the pannier to loosen the strap. There are better arrangements,
if you want to pay for them.

They come with built in rain covers that stow in a bottom pocket. The
rain covers probably help, but the panniers aren't water proof. (I
think only the very best are really waterproof.) But I'm used to
putting everything in plastic bags.

I used to use a set of Specialized Tailwind panniers, and still will,
for shorter trips. These are smaller and a neat sort of airfoil shape.
They really do lessen your air resistance. By contrast, the
Performance panniers are un-streamlined, with lots of external pockets
and protrusions. I suppose it's not a big deal, but I'm kind of an
aerodynamics freak. OTOH, I found having lots of pockets good for
organizing - at least, once I got consistent at putting things back
where they came from!

I'd definitely use front & rear panniers, if you've got a significant
load. The rear wheel strength of many bikes is marginal with just the
rider weight. The front wheel is lightly loaded. In fact, for some
short tours, I've used only front panniers, no rear.

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com.
Substitute cc dot ysu dot
edu]

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Ted Bennett said:

Seconded. In fact, I use my bicycle Ortliebs on my motorcycle also.
Absolutely no problems, even on rough surfaces and high speed.

ortliebs are certainly nice. what i don't like about 'em is they're just
one stuff sack. no compartments for organizing or fast access (wallet, tools
... i dont't use a handlebar bag). i use madden mountaineering (oops, are they
gone?) mountaineering panniers and i would really miss that feature. the
maddens lack the (much superior) waterproofness of the ortliebs but they
weren't too bad (iow, my stuff didn't get more than damp in oregon).

one of the guys i toured with loved the ortliebs as well.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

"David Reuteler" wrote

Quoted message said:

ortliebs are certainly nice. what i don't like about 'em is they're just
one stuff sack. no compartments for organizing or fast access (wallet,

tools

Quoted message said:

.. i dont't use a handlebar bag). i use madden mountaineering (oops, are

they

Quoted message said:

gone?) mountaineering panniers and i would really miss that feature. the
maddens lack the (much superior) waterproofness of the ortliebs but they
weren't too bad (iow, my stuff didn't get more than damp in oregon).

one of the guys i toured with loved the ortliebs as well.
--
david reuteler

You can always use stuff sacks to organize, or big zip-lock bags.
--
mark

David Reuteler said:

Ted Bennett said:

Seconded. In fact, I use my bicycle Ortliebs on my motorcycle also.
Absolutely no problems, even on rough surfaces and high speed.

ortliebs are certainly nice. what i don't like about 'em is they're just
one stuff sack. no compartments for organizing or fast access (wallet, tools
.. i dont't use a handlebar bag).

Unless you mount some of the side pockets, which admittedly make Ortliebs
more expensive, heavy, and ugly. I have one for puncture and lighting
spares.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!

search bike.tech for
DIY touring bags
buy ballistic nylon only!
tie(with cord) water jugs on the racks sides then when yawl fall...

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=66&subcategory=1004&brand=&sku=6796&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

I used these panniers back in 1992 for a 4,000 mile summer trip around
Europe. Front and rear. Nashbar ATB panniers. Worked fine. I've
used them a few times for loaded tours since. About three trips over
about 5 weeks and 2,000 miles. They still look about like new.

The idea of spending hundreds of dollars for supposedly high end
panniers that are used one week out of every three years does not seem
too economically rational to me.

I organize everything in clear zip loc bags inside the panniers so I
can see everything and know where it is at. And then I stuff all the
zip loc bags in a big garbage bag inside the pannier. Can't get much
more waterproof than that. I've never gotten excited about waterproof
panniers like Ortleib.

The large one pocket style, like the Nashbar ATB or the Ortleib or the
Delta you referenced, are not ideal for rear panniers. If you have a
ten and sleeping bag and sleeping pad strapped on your rear rack, you
cannot get into the top of your large on epocket style pannier. You
really need the traditional side entry multi pocket pannier for the
rear. Or you have to remove the tent, sleeping bag, and sleeping pad
whenever you need to get into the rear panniers. Or plan ahead as
best as possible and try not to have anything you will need during the
riding day in the rear panniers.

"basjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring, planning a 6 week trip
in Europe and week-long stints here and there: What size and kind of
panniers, size and type, would be best suited? Are the Nashbar panniers,
for instance, worth the buy:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=66&subcategory=1004&brand=&sku=6997&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

or should I rather go for something like the Delta panniers at Harris
Cyclery

http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&SKU=BG8022

I will likely have to cart a lot, since my wife will be going along and I
usually take most of the stuff.

I am leaning towards the Delta panniers, mainly because I am not sure how
the Nashbar ones attach. I like the idea of one bag per side, attached via
hook to the rack, while I could still perhaps fit a tent/sleeping pads, etc.
on top of the rear panniers.

Any inputs would be very much appreciated!

Thanks

Jan

In article said:

I have a quick question as a rookie to bike touring, planning a 6 week trip
in Europe and week-long stints here and there: What size and kind of
panniers, size and type, would be best suited? Are the Nashbar panniers,
for instance, worth the buy:

Jandd Large Mountain panniers on the back and Ortlieb backrollers on the front
are a good combo. The Jandd aren't fully water proof so you have to consider
what you put in there, but you can count on the Ortliebs to keep things dry as
long as you don't put something wet in there. The Jandds are well made and
large.

Some panniers extend a little above the rack, these could be a problem on the
back if you are carrying a tent on top of them. All the panniers that I've
looked at that have rain covers extend above the rack (I don't think much of
rain covers anyway, they are just another system to maintain). The Jandd
panniers do not extend above the rack.

Make sure your chain stays, rack, feet and pannier combination are compatible
(short stayed bikes can give you "heel strike" on the panniers).

I prefer the top loading type pannier, you can (almost) always get something
else in there. The Jandd Large Mountain panniers take that to an exteme that
I've never taken full advantage of.

Tom Gibb <[email hidden]>