Pain over 100km ride...

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Davidm said:

This got me thinking that maybe the issue was my normal non-special socks
(thin, black, cotton work socks) were just not letting my feet cool

Probably; about $6 and a visit to your nearest supermarket should get
you a pair of CoolMax or similar material socks.

--
Shane Stanley

"Shane Stanley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Davidm said:

This got me thinking that maybe the issue was my normal non-special socks
(thin, black, cotton work socks) were just not letting my feet cool

Probably; about $6 and a visit to your nearest supermarket should get
you a pair of CoolMax or similar material socks.

hmmm...ineresting. I was thinking it'd be $30 at the LBS, but KMart or
whatever is sounding very good indeed...

Cheers
David M

"Davidm" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

This got me thinking that maybe the issue was my normal non-special socks
(thin, black, cotton work socks) were just not letting my feet cool and
thus my feet swelled up? I tried with the shoes loose and tight, and the
shoes fit well but I can adjust them to be pretty loose. They're
Specialized SPD shoes with 3 velcro straps, and have always been really
comfy.. I never ride these distances, 35-50km is my weekend ride, maybe
55km, and this distance I do easy.

So, any ideas on what the story was and what to do? "Special" socks? Just
more practice?

Sounds like your feet swelled during the hot ride. I think most
people have the same issue to some degree. Did it ease up
after you loosened the shoes?
I've always used cotton socks. Not the best, but they certainly
don't costs as much as Coolmax socks.
Was your longest ride prior to this 55k? 100k is quite a
reasonable step up - perhaps more rides around the 80k
mark would've helped, or at least exposed the issue earlier.
I'd find thinner socks and adjust the straps when needed. If
it's bad you can always walk around and stretch you feet.

Quoted message said:

Any while we're at it, at 95km or so I got *really* cold (it was probably
36 degrees at this stage) and had an attack of uncontrollable shivering.
Only lasted for a few minutes and didn't seem to leave me feeling any
worse... What was that about?

Hot and cold flushes can happen for any number of reasons
but I've had them happen after hard rides in the heat. I would
guess that it's dehydration/heat related. How much did you
drink?

Quoted message said:

And what do you folks eat/drink over 100km on a hot day? I went through 4
bidons of water and 2 Uncle Toby's museli bars, but maybe I should have
tried powerade and some special-athlete-quality snacks....

How long did the ride take you? Most people suggest an intake
of 1 bidon/hour, I operate on a lot less but often pay severely
for it later on (at least in hot weather). You can lose 2-3L of
sweat in an hour during a hot, hard ride. It's VERY hard, if not
impossible to replace all of this, especially on the bike. You also
need to replace your electrolytes (salts) with Staminade, Gatorade,
etc. From now on, when you ride, weigh yourself (naked) before
and after the ride and note the temperature and intensity of the ride.
This will give you a good idea how much sweat you lose during a
ride of particular distance/intensity.
2 museli bars doesn't sound like enough, especially for
someone not used to the distance or the heat. It's very personal
though and you work out what your body can work with over
time. Your energy requirements also vary for the same course
on different days. You might be able to do 100k on a couple
of fruit bars and then the next week bonk hard and have to eat
10 of them just to crawl home.
Experience will help the most in this regard.

hippy

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 at 10:44 GMT, hippy (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

"Davidm" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

And what do you folks eat/drink over 100km on a hot day? I went through 4
bidons of water and 2 Uncle Toby's museli bars, but maybe I should have
tried powerade and some special-athlete-quality snacks....

How long did the ride take you? Most people suggest an intake
of 1 bidon/hour, I operate on a lot less but often pay severely
for it later on (at least in hot weather). You can lose 2-3L of
sweat in an hour during a hot, hard ride. It's VERY hard, if not
impossible to replace all of this, especially on the bike. You also
need to replace your electrolytes (salts) with Staminade, Gatorade,

Ever since discovering that I was constantly dehydrated (I drank
virtually nothing for the first 20 years of my life -- I never had the
"thirst" sensor diode conduct - I've only recently learn to calibrate
it), I've been making sure I drink enough.

I drink more like 2 bidons per hour, especially in the heat (I now
seem to have an overly sensetive thirst diode). This morning, I
finished my first bidon about 20 minutes into my morning commute, but
then I knew there was plenty of water available. I pay for my
consumption two-fold: I run out of water too early when it is hot, and
there aren't frequent water stops (why don't I learn to have reserve
bottles in the panniers?), and I have to get off my bike every 40
minutes to [censored]. I *hate* riding through long suburbs when I haven't
paced my [censored] stops properly 🙂

Quoted message said:

etc. From now on, when you ride, weigh yourself (naked) before
and after the ride and note the temperature and intensity of the ride.
This will give you a good idea how much sweat you lose during a
ride of particular distance/intensity.
2 museli bars doesn't sound like enough, especially for
someone not used to the distance or the heat. It's very personal

Wow! 2? I guess race situations are different in that you probably
feed yourself properly beforehand. But in touring, I'll eat 4 salad
buns at lunch, a few museli bars here and there, and a packet of
lollies. Sweet juicy lollies 🙂

--
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
Bus error -- driver executed.

"TimC" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I drink more like 2 bidons per hour, especially in the heat

Wow!

Quoted message said:

I finished my first bidon about 20 minutes into my morning commute,

I only finish it that fast if it's bourbon.. hiccup.. ;-)

Quoted message said:

I *hate* riding through long suburbs when I haven't
paced my [censored] stops properly 🙂

Hey, that's what unfenced front lawns are for..

Quoted message said:

Wow! 2? I guess race situations are different in that you probably
feed yourself properly beforehand.

It was an Audax though, not a race, so there should be
heaps more time available for eating/drinking. I don't race
in anything long enough (other than mtb enduros, but these
are team efforts) to require eating on the bike. In training,
there's shouldn't be any problems eating. Carry more than
you need.

hippy

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 at 12:28 GMT, hippy (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

"TimC" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I *hate* riding through long suburbs when I haven't
paced my [censored] stops properly 🙂

Hey, that's what unfenced front lawns are for..

On the GVBR, a number of residents rang the BV HQ, and complained that
cyclists were pissing on their front garden.

--
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
"Some people think that noise abatement should be a higher priority for ATC. I
say safety is noise abatement. You have no idea how much noise it makes to have
a 737 fall out of the sky after an accident." -- anon. air traffic controller

Davidm said:

Well I made my first 100km Audax (in fact 110.6km) this weekend. Not that
I'd ever tried before, but I'd never had any reason to. I thought "...it
can't be THAT hard.." and "...country roads aren't THAT bumpy..." and even
"...38 degrees isn't THAT hot...". I came in equal third with 2 other guys
as far as I could tell, out of maybe 40 (?) or so people, and I wasn't
trying to make a race of it so I was pretty satisfied.

Anyway, I guess it was really a bit hot for a first timer, and the roads
were pretty bad but easy enough to get used to, and it wouldn't have been
that hard...that is if my feet didn't pack up. I got to maybe 75km and they
really started to hurt. Made another 15km and it was totally unbearable. In
this stretch I'd even stopped to take of my shoes and wriggle my toes etc...
Anyway at 90km or so I could seiously not go on...and I've a pretty high
tolerance to pain/discomfort. Stopped, removed socks, put on shoes without
socks, and the rest of the ride was a breeze.

This got me thinking that maybe the issue was my normal non-special socks
(thin, black, cotton work socks) were just not letting my feet cool and thus
my feet swelled up? I tried with the shoes loose and tight, and the shoes
fit well but I can adjust them to be pretty loose. They're Specialized SPD
shoes with 3 velcro straps, and have always been really comfy.. I never ride
these distances, 35-50km is my weekend ride, maybe 55km, and this distance I
do easy.

So, any ideas on what the story was and what to do? "Special" socks? Just
more practice?

Any while we're at it, at 95km or so I got *really* cold (it was probably 36
degrees at this stage) and had an attack of uncontrollable shivering. Only
lasted for a few minutes and didn't seem to leave me feeling any worse...
What was that about?

And what do you folks eat/drink over 100km on a hot day? I went through 4
bidons of water and 2 Uncle Toby's museli bars, but maybe I should have
tried powerade and some special-athlete-quality snacks....

Cheers
David M

Marathon runners have what they call the "thumb rule".
The distance between the end of your toes and the end of your shoe is
about the same as the width of your thumb. Also one foot will usually be
longer than the other, so always try out shoes on your "long" foot. The
extra length is to allow for the swelling of your feet when you exert
yourself. Shoes with a Carbon Fibre sole might help too, flexible shoes
tend to affect your foot circulation.
Museli bars might be healthy but your body can't absorb the energy from
them quickly enough, that's why athletes use carboshots or similar. Mars
Bars have a lot of maltodextrin which is a type of carbohydrate.Flat
coke can help you get through those last few km.

The cold shiver might be from "hitting the wall". When you're body has
run out of easily available energy.

Marty

TimC said:

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 at 12:28 GMT, hippy (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

"TimC" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I *hate* riding through long suburbs when I haven't
paced my [censored] stops properly 🙂

Hey, that's what unfenced front lawns are for..

On the GVBR, a number of residents rang the BV HQ, and complained that
cyclists were pissing on their front garden.

--
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
"Some people think that noise abatement should be a higher priority for ATC. I
say safety is noise abatement. You have no idea how much noise it makes to have
a 737 fall out of the sky after an accident." -- anon. air traffic controller

Don't they know the benefits of nitrogenous fertilisers on lawn? I'll plant a lemon tree if I hear the ride's coming past my house!

M "home-made lemon cordial is a great thirst quencher" H

Davidm said:

Well I made my first 100km Audax (in fact 110.6km) this weekend.

So, any ideas on what the story was and what to do? "Special" socks? Just
more practice?

Any while we're at it, at 95km or so I got *really* cold (it was probably 36
degrees at this stage) and had an attack of uncontrollable shivering. Only
lasted for a few minutes and didn't seem to leave me feeling any worse...
What was that about?

And what do you folks eat/drink over 100km on a hot day? I went through 4
bidons of water and 2 Uncle Toby's museli bars, but maybe I should have
tried powerade and some special-athlete-quality snacks....

Cheers
David M

I find my feet begin to "burn" on stinking hot days when I am riding any distance... just the heat combined with the socks... guess its a matter of finding the right sox (or no sox like one of my buddies) to suit under those extreme conditions.

RE: food and fluid intake - you didnt drink enough dude!!!! I was a spectator and drank more than that and was still dehydrated. It's important not to underestimate fluid intake and in those conditions where you are not only sweating like crazy but working your body hard up and down those hills you need something more than just water. You need to replace salts that are being sweated out of your body and that your body is using to fire your muscles. Gatorade, powerade etc even just plain salt will help. If you drink straight water your body will just flush it straight thru your system after a while (taking more goodies with it).

Congratulations on having a go and doing so well... you going back next yr for more suffering???

"Davidm" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyway, I guess it was really a bit hot for a first timer, and the roads
were pretty bad but easy enough to get used to, and it wouldn't have been
that hard...that is if my feet didn't pack up. I got to maybe 75km and
they really started to hurt. Made another 15km and it was totally
unbearable. In this stretch I'd even stopped to take of my shoes and
wriggle my toes etc... Anyway at 90km or so I could seiously not go
on...and I've a pretty high tolerance to pain/discomfort. Stopped, removed
socks, put on shoes without socks, and the rest of the ride was a breeze.

Quoted message said:

David M

David when I do long rides on warm days I get 'hot foot' like you too -
perhaps not as bad as you've had but most riders have had this issue. As
Hippy says it's caused by your feet swelling in your shoes and nerves
getting pinched somewhere. I think the solution may be as simple as thinner
socks on hot days, or maybe no socks at all to give your feet room to swell
without pinching. For me I've certainly found the amount of room my feet
have is more important than the type of material my socks are made of. I
like thin cotton socks best.

Next time I look for new shoes I'm going to get a slightly looser fit too.

There's some interesting stuff here (select the third article How to Solve
Painful 'Hot Foot'😉

http://www.roadbikerider.com/articles.htm#How%20to%20Solve%20Painful%20Hot%20Foot

Peter S
[email hidden]

Congratulations on your first 110km ride. My record is 207km which just about killed me. It was hardly worth it as I spent the next week very buggered (definitely not riding my bike). I definitely wouldn't recommend doign 100km without having done a few 70 - 90km rides.

Marty said

Quoted message said:

Shoes with a Carbon Fibre sole might help too, flexible shoes tend to affect
your foot circulation.

I wouldn't recommend carbon fiber soled shoes to someone who has foot problems. Carbon tends to get quite hot and takes some serious getting used to. Plastic soled cycling shoes barely flex anyway (well, not to the point where they should be causing problems)....

Quoted message said:

Museli bars might be healthy but your body can't absorb the energy from
them quickly enough, that's why athletes use carboshots or similar.

Very true indeed. By the time you're that bonked, what your body needs is high GI foods. Personally I love the Coles Reliance (yes, I'm a cheap skate) fruit bars. They're delish, sweet and do fill you up a bit.

Quoted message said:

Mars Bars have a lot of maltodextrin which is a type of carbohydrate.

That is a REALLY good excuse to eat chocolate. I'll keep that one in mind.

Quoted message said:

Flat coke can help you get through those last few km.

This could be true (mmm, coke!), however, I am inclined to believe that caffeine isn't the greatest thing you can consume when bonked.

A good general rule to follow is to eat a low GI meal prior to the ride, then high GI foods whilst on the bike.

Lotte

LotteBum said:

Congratulations on your first 110km ride. My record is 207km which just
about killed me. It was hardly worth it as I spent the next week very
buggered (definitely not riding my bike). I definitely wouldn't
recommend doign 100km without having done a few 70 - 90km rides.

Marty said

Quoted message said:

Shoes with a Carbon Fibre sole might help too, flexible shoes tend to

affect

Quoted message said:

your foot circulation.

I wouldn't recommend carbon fiber soled shoes to someone who has foot
problems. Carbon tends to get quite hot and takes some serious getting
used to. Plastic soled cycling shoes barely flex anyway (well, not to
the point where they should be causing problems)....

Quoted message said:

Museli bars might be healthy but your body can't absorb the energy

from

Quoted message said:

them quickly enough, that's why athletes use carboshots or similar.

Very true indeed. By the time you're that bonked, what your body needs
is high GI foods. Personally I love the Coles Reliance (yes, I'm a
cheap skate) fruit bars. They're delish, sweet and do fill you up a
bit.

Quoted message said:

Mars Bars have a lot of maltodextrin which is a type of carbohydrate.

That is a REALLY good excuse to eat chocolate. I'll keep that one in
mind.

Quoted message said:

Flat coke can help you get through those last few km.

This could be true (mmm, coke!), however, I am inclined to believe that
caffeine isn't the greatest thing you can consume when bonked.

A good general rule to follow is to eat a low GI meal prior to the
ride, then high GI foods whilst on the bike.

Lotte

--
LotteBum

I'll add to that, make it a couple hours before the ride. And if it's a
long ride, look for substantial, cheap foods to eat, like honey on white
bread. Mmmmm.

There's some US (?) brand makes honey-based energy gels. They're
honey... isn't that enough energy? Why add? Steal some single-serves
next time you're in a motel...

T

PS How about you Lotte, you riding if it's wet?