I am 36 and have a max HR of 186. I have a measured LT at heartrate of 163. This was done in a lab earlier this year. I'm in better shape now, so I guess it may be 165 now.
I am curious what HR recommendations folks have for 10km TT. The conditions around here are too windy to be able to tell accuratley the results of any test I try. Riding at 163 is too slow, and at the finish I have plenty of juice left over. Same at 168. If I do a 20km TT the time is almost exactly double my 10km time. What does this say about my 10km pace? How much over my LT would result in a faster time for 10km without blowing up?
No real way to tell until you try it. The only advice I have to give is don't sprint off the line and blow up in the first km. After that it should pretty easy to settle into the right pace... ie go as fast as you can. You want to get to where you almost feel like puking... but not quite... at least not until the end.
BTW, my HR seems to vary all over the place. My max is 182, and sometimes I can go 175 for 10miles, and other times only 160... and that is at the same speed/ power output.
I am 36 and have a max HR of 186. I have a measured LT at heartrate of 163. This was done in a lab earlier this year. I'm in better shape now, so I guess it may be 165 now.
I am fifty. I have no idea what my max hear rate is, nor do I want to. My approach to time trialling is simply to set out as fast as I think I can sustain for ten miles, and at about two thirds distance up that to flat out. If at the end you aren't shattered, try a bit harder next week.
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I am 36 and have a max HR of 186. I have a measured LT at heartrate of 163. This was done in a lab earlier this year. I'm in better shape now, so I guess it may be 165 now.
I am curious what HR recommendations folks have for 10km TT. The conditions around here are too windy to be able to tell accuratley the results of any test I try. Riding at 163 is too slow, and at the finish I have plenty of juice left over. Same at 168. If I do a 20km TT the time is almost exactly double my 10km time. What does this say about my 10km pace? How much over my LT would result in a faster time for 10km without blowing up?
Come back and ask this question once you have a powermeter. Only you can answer this question because heart rate is so variable.
No real way to tell until you try it. The only advice I have to give is don't sprint off the line and blow up in the first km. After that it should pretty easy to settle into the right pace... ie go as fast as you can. You want to get to where you almost feel like puking... but not quite... at least not until the end.
BTW, my HR seems to vary all over the place. My max is 182, and sometimes I can go 175 for 10miles, and other times only 160... and that is at the same speed/ power output.
Yeah, I think I'm taking it too easy. Sometimes I feel fine at much higher rates. I guess I should just ease up to my approximate limit at the start, and add juice gradually until I have to back off. Then I can observe my HR and use it as a guide for the rest of the trip instead of the very rigid way I've been doing it.
The conditions around here are too windy to be able to tell accuratley the results of any test I try. Riding at 163 is too slow, and at the finish I have plenty of juice left over. Same at 168. If I do a 20km TT the time is almost exactly double my 10km time. What does this say about my 10km pace? How much over my LT would result in a faster time for 10km without blowing up?
10km is short, so you should be able to go above your LT rate. If your 20km time is exactly double your 10km time under exactly the same conditions, you're going too slow but whether it's a little too slow or a lot is hard to say without knowing how much you have left in your tank. However, if the conditions are variably windy, you should know that constant pacing isn't time-minimizing. Constant pacing is time-minimizing only when conditions are also constant: when wind or grade varies, you'll need to vary your output. Don't overcook the first couple of minutes: it's easy to be so excited that you go out too fast.
It's easier if you have a power meter, but even if you don't you may want to read Shakeshaft's article on pacing for a 10 mile TT. Look under "articles" here: http://freespace.virgin.net/martin.shakeshaft/
Notice how, in both figures, the HR lines don't track particularly well with either the lactate or power lines. That's why pacing by HR isn't terribly reliable.
I am 36 and have a max HR of 186. I have a measured LT at heartrate of 163. This was done in a lab earlier this year. I'm in better shape now, so I guess it may be 165 now.
I am curious what HR recommendations folks have for 10km TT. The conditions around here are too windy to be able to tell accuratley the results of any test I try. Riding at 163 is too slow, and at the finish I have plenty of juice left over. Same at 168. If I do a 20km TT the time is almost exactly double my 10km time. What does this say about my 10km pace? How much over my LT would result in a faster time for 10km without blowing up?
That's too short a distance to think about watching a HRM, isn't it?
If it's windy then your HR will be all over the place anyway and with a race that's over in less than 15 minutes you'll want to go well past anything that you'd otherwise do to yourself. Don't sprint, but otherwise just freeking hammer it out.
I say put tape over the readout and then look at it afterward.
I am 36 and have a max HR of 186. I have a measured LT at heartrate of 163. This was done in a lab earlier this year. I'm in better shape now, so I guess it may be 165 now.
I am curious what HR recommendations folks have for 10km TT. The conditions around here are too windy to be able to tell accuratley the results of any test I try. Riding at 163 is too slow, and at the finish I have plenty of juice left over. Same at 168. If I do a 20km TT the time is almost exactly double my 10km time. What does this say about my 10km pace? How much over my LT would result in a faster time for 10km without blowing up?
If you're Cat 3 or under then you need to play it by ear. I wouldn't bother with a Heart Rate Monitor since until you reach Cat 3 level (level not class) you'll vary pretty wildly around how much effort you can put out for how long.
I am curious what HR recommendations folks have for 10km TT. The conditions around here are too windy to be able to tell accuratley the results of any test I try. Riding at 163 is too slow, and at the finish I have plenty of juice left over. Same at 168. If I do a 20km TT the time is almost exactly double my 10km time. What does this say about my 10km pace? How much over my LT would result in a faster time for 10km without blowing up?
My experience is limited, but I have tried 10 km TT's a few times. Assuming that this is a flat TT and you're in good shape, this should be at most a 15-minute affair or so. I think you should definitely aim higher than your LT if you want to go as fast as you possibly can.
When I've tried it, the first kilometer or so was spent getting the HR up. In the last 5 to 7 kilometers my HR was usually from 185 to 190. My LT is about 180 and maximum HR 201.
I think well-conditioned athletes ride TT's like this very close to their maximum HR. I think it's pretty difficult to start too fast in a 10-km TT. At least it is for me.
I am 36 and have a max HR of 186. I have a measured LT at heartrate of 163. This was done in a lab earlier this year. I'm in better shape now, so I guess it may be 165 now.
I am curious what HR recommendations folks have for 10km TT. The conditions around here are too windy to be able to tell accuratley the results of any test I try. Riding at 163 is too slow, and at the finish I have plenty of juice left over. Same at 168. If I do a 20km TT the time is almost exactly double my 10km time. What does this say about my 10km pace? How much over my LT would result in a faster time for 10km without blowing up?
If you're Cat 3 or under then you need to play it by ear. I wouldn't bother with a Heart Rate Monitor since until you reach Cat 3 level (level not class) you'll vary pretty wildly around how much effort you can put out for how long.
Back in the old days (15 years ago) I was a Cat 3! Too bad I got fat and out of shape in the meantime, but that is being rectified. The events I concentrate on are all long (250km+) so the 10km TT is just to gauge power and have fun at the club races. Based on tests on long known grade climbs, and other situations, I think I am pretty good at maintaining a constant output. My output at LT is about 320W based on my latest calculations.
I think the concensus is that I am going to soft, and that the vagaries of HR particularly at high output levels for relatively short races are too much to pay any real attention to HR.
The conditions around here are too windy to be able to tell accuratley the results of any test I try. Riding at 163 is too slow, and at the finish I have plenty of juice left over. Same at 168. If I do a 20km TT the time is almost exactly double my 10km time. What does this say about my 10km pace? How much over my LT would result in a faster time for 10km without blowing up?
10km is short, so you should be able to go above your LT rate. If your 20km time is exactly double your 10km time under exactly the same conditions, you're going too slow but whether it's a little too slow or a lot is hard to say without knowing how much you have left in your tank. However, if the conditions are variably windy, you should know that constant pacing isn't time-minimizing. Constant pacing is time-minimizing only when conditions are also constant: when wind or grade varies, you'll need to vary your output. Don't overcook the first couple of minutes: it's easy to be so excited that you go out too fast.
It's easier if you have a power meter, but even if you don't you may want to read Shakeshaft's article on pacing for a 10 mile TT. Look under "articles" here: http://freespace.virgin.net/martin.shakeshaft/
Notice how, in both figures, the HR lines don't track particularly well with either the lactate or power lines. That's why pacing by HR isn't terribly reliable.
The even pace shown in the second example is what I have been trying to acheive by keeping my HR and thus hopefully my lactate levels below LT. I ease my way out of the gate without overdoing it, and ease my way up to my LT HR in the first minute. Then I try to bump it up a notch or two. On the inclines, I take it up 2 notches, and ease off on the declines figuring my effort is better spent countering gravity at low speed than air resistance at high speed. The last km is all out. But the HR lag and other inconsistencies are getting the better of me. If I could decide which powermeter was best for me, I could start scraping money together for one. I guess there is no way around it.
I am 36 and have a max HR of 186. I have a measured LT at heartrate of 163. This was done in a lab earlier this year. I'm in better shape now, so I guess it may be 165 now.
I am curious what HR recommendations folks have for 10km TT. The conditions around here are too windy to be able to tell accuratley the results of any test I try. Riding at 163 is too slow, and at the finish I have plenty of juice left over. Same at 168. If I do a 20km TT the time is almost exactly double my 10km time. What does this say about my 10km pace? How much over my LT would result in a faster time for 10km without blowing up?
That's too short a distance to think about watching a HRM, isn't it?
If it's windy then your HR will be all over the place anyway and with a race that's over in less than 15 minutes you'll want to go well past anything that you'd otherwise do to yourself. Don't sprint, but otherwise just freeking hammer it out.
It's only "sort of" flat. I use 53x12,13,14,15,21. The best men do it just around 14:00 (with full TT bikes with disk wheels, tri-spoke front, TT helmets, the works) and the best women around 15:00. I'm just under 16:00 with a regular bike and a non-trivial spare-tire.
Quoted message said:
I say put tape over the readout and then look at it afterward.
I think that's what I'm going to do. When I use the HRM I seem to spend more time cooling it as a result of what I see rather than pushing more as a result of what I see.
The even pace shown in the second example is what I have been trying to acheive by keeping my HR and thus hopefully my lactate levels below LT.
If you're keeping your lactate levels below LT, you're definitely going too easy. There's no reason in a 15 minute race to keep your lactate that low, unless you're not interested in your time.
My recollection is that you're big but you didn't have a lot of W/kg. A flat TT is your friend. Know the course. Minimize your CdA. Warm up thoroughly. Start up smoothly. Ride to minimize time, not to limit lactate.
The even pace shown in the second example is what I have been trying to acheive by keeping my HR and thus hopefully my lactate levels below LT.
If you're keeping your lactate levels below LT, you're definitely going too easy. There's no reason in a 15 minute race to keep your lactate that low, unless you're not interested in your time.
I guess it's time to pour on the coals!
Quoted message said:
My recollection is that you're big but you didn't have a lot of W/kg. A flat TT is your friend. Know the course. Minimize your CdA. Warm up thoroughly. Start up smoothly. Ride to minimize time, not to limit lactate.
My W/kg at 3.9mmol is about 3.3 these days, and I'm working on it from both ends. There are no truly pancake flat courses here, but if I can lose some weight I think I could manage the primary sort of flat course using only 4 gears.
I think I may have been underestimating the importance of warming up. Usually I just sort of ride around a bit first and end up standing there for a few minutes before it's my turn. not optimal.
I think the concensus is that I am going to soft, and that the vagaries of HR particularly at high output levels for relatively short races are too much to pay any real attention to HR.
My experience was that I could go a lot harder and longer above the LT when I was motivated by a race. When Karen Kurreck was giving a talk and she mentioned her world win, she said the same thing.
The point being that if you try to judge your ability by your heart rate monitor you're probably under your real capacity unless you've used it for a very long time and have a lot of information on your own physiological conditions. ..
<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
The even pace shown in the second example is what I have been trying to
acheive by keeping my HR and thus hopefully my lactate levels below LT. I ease my way out of the gate without overdoing it, and ease my way up to my LT HR in the first minute. Then I try to bump it up a notch or two. On the inclines, I take it up 2 notches, and ease off on the declines figuring my effort is better spent countering gravity at low speed than air resistance at high speed. The last km is all out. But the HR lag and other inconsistencies are getting the better of me. If I could decide which powermeter was best for me, I could start scraping money together for one. I guess there is no way around it.
A 10K TT is the place to blow away your LT. One of the reasons for knowing your LT is that you can only go above it for a short time then you will [censored] out. This is the time to be totally spent at the end. Make sure you warm up really well before the race.
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Quoted message said:
Hi,
I am 36 and have a max HR of 186. I have a measured LT at heartrate of 163. This was done in a lab earlier this year. I'm in better shape now, so I guess it may be 165 now.
I am curious what HR recommendations folks have for 10km TT. The conditions around here are too windy to be able to tell accuratley the results of any test I try. Riding at 163 is too slow, and at the finish I have plenty of juice left over. Same at 168. If I do a 20km TT the time is almost exactly double my 10km time. What does this say about my 10km pace? How much over my LT would result in a faster time for 10km without blowing up?
Thanks!
Joseph
Hey what are you doing asking a question about real bike racing in the newsgroup? Didn't you read the charter? We only discuss virtual racing, Lance Armstrong, charts, weight gain, European warranties, and TK's love of homosexuals. If you want to discuss actual racing you will have to start your own group.
I think I may have been underestimating the importance of warming up. Usually I just sort of ride around a bit first and end up standing there for a few minutes before it's my turn. not optimal.
The shorter the race (and 10K is short) the more important it is to warm up.
<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Hi,
I am 36 and have a max HR of 186. I have a measured LT at heartrate of 163. This was done in a lab earlier this year. I'm in better shape now, so I guess it may be 165 now.
I am curious what HR recommendations folks have for 10km TT. The conditions around here are too windy to be able to tell accuratley the results of any test I try. Riding at 163 is too slow, and at the finish I have plenty of juice left over. Same at 168. If I do a 20km TT the time is almost exactly double my 10km time. What does this say about my 10km pace? How much over my LT would result in a faster time for 10km without blowing up?
Come back and ask this question once you have a powermeter. Only you can answer this question because heart rate is so variable.
Screw the power meter and other techno stuff. Unless you are shaving seconds for a World Championship or TdF placing you are wasting your time and money. Know your heatrate and threshold. A heartrate monitor can be useful.
Go out and ride. Get to know you body's threshold. Get to speed fast, in a fairly big gear, and cruise. Practice your corners, scrape your pedals some.
No real way to tell until you try it. The only advice I have to give is don't sprint off the line and blow up in the first km. After that it should pretty easy to settle into the right pace... ie go as fast as you can. You want to get to where you almost feel like puking... but not quite... at least not until the end.
Yeah, I think I'm taking it too easy. Sometimes I feel fine at much higher rates. I guess I should just ease up to my approximate limit at the start, and add juice gradually until I have to back off. Then I can observe my HR and use it as a guide for the rest of the trip instead of the very rigid way I've been doing it.
Forget observing the HR during the TT. A 15-20 min time trial is short enough that you can do it more than once a week without overcooking yourself. You think (or rather, you know) you haven't been doing it hard enough, so go out and practice it a little harder. If you don't blow up, do it a little harder the next time. Repeat until whipped. Judge your effort by how hard it feels - like how labored your breathing is - as this and other measures of perceived exertion are more likely reliable than HR. You can look at the average HR afterward to see if it correlates with perceived exertion. It might not be that great an indicator.
