P38 Quality, Price, and Service?

My DREAMBIKE is the R84... will get me one when I hit the LOTTO. I rode with a gal riding one and
she was obviously holding back; I was giving my GRR all I had. Some say the seat is "iffy"... from
what I understand, you must get the proper size or it's very uncomfortable.
--
Chere ~ GRR Sanibel, FL / Cumberland, MD

I've been riding about 800 miles a month on my Lightning R-84 since September of last year and love
it. It climbs well and puts most of the wedgies riders in the area to shame. In fact, I'm told by
some of the old timers in the Louisville Bicycle Club that I've caused them to rethink their
negative position on recumbents, previously thought to be slow and best suited for fat old men with
arthritis.

That being said, it's considered a high maintenance bike. I recently had to send the frame back to
the factory to have the headset tube rebonded to the carbon. (Darn Kentucky pot holes!) I really
hated having to ride my old bike while waiting three weeks for the repair. Still, I consider my self
a Lightning fan. The P-38 has essentially the same geometry as the R-84, but not being high-tech
carbon, is more easily repaired at local bike shops--no fancy glues or heat curing required.
However, the folks at lightning have always treated me very well. It's just a shame their facility
is 2,600 miles away!

If I weren't such a loyal lightning fan, I might consider the Bacchetta line of bikes. Three of my
friends ride a Strada, a Giro and an Aero, respectively. The guy on the Strada is every bit as fast
as I am, even though his bike weighs a few extra pounds. The main advantage to the Bacchetta line is
that they are much more affordable than the R-84. Some would debate that whether or not that little
extra performance I get from my carbon lightning is worth the big price differential. I don't care
what they say, I still love it!

Best of luck in your hunt for the the perfect recumbent. Here's a link to a video I made on the Old
Kentucky Home Tour, last year, where I entered and won the time-trial, at least in the recumbent
category. preble.netokht2002Open ↗

"stratrider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Different sources have offered negative comments to me about Lightning's quality, and customer
service. Add to that a stiff price for the P38 and stiff competion. Yet Lightning has been around
as long as any recumbent manufacturer. So what is the REAL story here? Is the P38 worth the price?
What is the quality and reliability like?

Jim Reilly Reading, PA

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Different sources have offered negative comments to me about Lightning's quality, and customer
service. Add to that a stiff price for the P38 and stiff competion. Yet Lightning has been around
as long as any recumbent manufacturer. So what is the REAL story here? Is the P38 worth the price?
What is the quality and reliability like?

The Lightning P-38's warts (from a happy camper):

Quality You can just about spec a P-38 with any components that you want so that leaves just the
frame and seat to compare for quality. My only direct comparisons are with RANS and Bacchetta. I
would have to rank them all about equal. In LCD's favor, you can get your Lightning in any color
(extra$) or one of several standard colors. RANS and Bacchetta limit you to one color per
model/year. For seats, I'd have to give the edge to Bacchetta or RANS. The Lightning seat is limited
in recline and is more 'closed' (seat/back angle). Some prefer this. I don't. However I can ride my
Lightning as far and as long as I can the Bacchetta. One other Lightning problem that is probably
attributed to the Ritchey Logic break levers is poor braking. I went through three different brake
calipers before I switched out the OEM (LCD special bend) Ritchey Logic levers. Once I replaced
those with Shimano XTR (modified by me with the special bend), my breaking problems were solved.

Service I'd rank service in this order. Bacchetta (10), RANS(9.5), LCD (8). IMO there are few if any
bent mfgs. that can squeeze between RANS and LCD. LCD could do better. Follow through, thoroughness
and completeness on service orders could be better.I have always gotten very good, helpful service
if I talked directly to Tim Brummer.

Price I have not found much difference in performance in a P-38 with Shimano
XT/ Ultegra components @ $3100 and a Bacchetta Giro simmilarly equipped for $1600.

The Lightning space frame design was advanced when it first came out, but as far as I can tell not
changed much in the intervening years. The big wheel 'stick' bikes are the current darlings of the
performance minded bent pilots. Lightning's P-38 design is 'tired'. You will however, find the P-38s
hard to beat on the go fast circuit.

Am I happy with my Lightning P-38 Voyager? Yes. Would I buy another? Not unless LCD makes a
revolutionary change in the product.

--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Cletus, That is great news since I will (hopefully) be considering a Giro soon. I am waiting for my
LBS to get a small in stock. Two are ordered and delivery is expected in May. I am a little worried
that they will be too big for me. Despite assurances from my dealer and members of this forum, I
think the bike may be too tall. Check out the picture in the upper left corner--

x-eyed.combike1.htmlOpen ↗ The woman on the Giro is definitely tippy-toed.

I was not able to convince Lightning that the $220 surcharge for a small frame was discriminatory
and should be eliminated. Tim would not budge one penny on the frame price which included $150/220
(cost to dealer/MSRP) for a small frame and $40/60 for V-brakes braze-ons. So not only was I paying
the manufacturer upcharge for a small frame, I was paying the dealer mark-up also. That put a P-38
frame price (small) at $1980 with $590 being dealer mark up. If I had a local dealer I probably
could have negotiated a better price. Some won't deal but many would gladly take $300-400 profit for
merely ordering a frame rather than lose the entire sale. They could also hope for some parts sales.
At any rate all my LBS (except the big chains) offer a 10% discount for bike club members.

My dealings with Lightning have put me off from buying a P-38 or Phantom frame. The Phantom was my
fall-back position if I liked it well enough after the test ride and decided not to spend the extra
for a P-38. I do not want to patronize Lightning in any way.

I am almost equally frustrated at Bachetta. They never answer my emails. I can not buy a
frame/seat/stem only and build it up. I am forced to pay for parts that I do not want. I need to
see/ride the bike first to see how many parts I can salvage. I am afraid the rims that come with it
are too wide for 1.0 tires. That means two complete new wheels. If I have to replace rims, I will
use better hubs. I know the crank and splined bottom bracket have to go so I can put on a short TA
or Thorn. I think the rest of the parts would be acceptable. But the color is arguably the ugliest
bike color I have ever seen. Maybe it will grow on me.

Cletus D. Lee <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The Lightning P-38's warts (from a happy camper):

Quality You can just about spec a P-38 with any components that you want so that leaves just the
frame and seat to compare for quality. My only direct comparisons are with RANS and Bacchetta. I
would have to rank them all about equal. In LCD's favor, you can get your Lightning in any color
(extra$) or one of several standard colors. RANS and Bacchetta limit you to one color per
model/year. For seats, I'd have to give the edge to Bacchetta or RANS. The Lightning seat is
limited in recline and is more 'closed' (seat/back angle). Some prefer this. I don't. However I
can ride my Lightning as far and as long as I can the Bacchetta. One other Lightning problem that
is probably attributed to the Ritchey Logic break levers is poor braking. I went through three
different brake calipers before I switched out the OEM (LCD special bend) Ritchey Logic levers.
Once I replaced those with Shimano XTR (modified by me with the special bend), my breaking
problems were solved.

Service I'd rank service in this order. Bacchetta (10), RANS(9.5), LCD (8). IMO there are few if
any bent mfgs. that can squeeze between RANS and LCD. LCD could do better. Follow through,
thoroughness and completeness on service orders could be better.I have always gotten very good,
helpful service if I talked directly to Tim Brummer.

Price I have not found much difference in performance in a P-38 with Shimano
XT/ Ultegra components @ $3100 and a Bacchetta Giro simmilarly equipped for $1600.

The Lightning space frame design was advanced when it first came out, but as far as I can tell not
changed much in the intervening years. The big wheel 'stick' bikes are the current darlings of the
performance minded bent pilots. Lightning's P-38 design is 'tired'. You will however, find the
P-38s hard to beat on the go fast circuit.

Am I happy with my Lightning P-38 Voyager? Yes. Would I buy another? Not unless LCD makes a
revolutionary change in the product.

(Note that I've posted this response to inquiries about the P-38 at various times. Loyal P-38 owners
insist that I'm maligning a great bike, but these were my honest impressions.)

Jim,

I bought a Lightning P-38 XT without having ridden one and it was the most disappointing bicycle
I've ever owned. Note that I'm comparing it to an upgraded RANS V-Rex purchased from Angletech.

The Lightning seat is nice, and the P-38 is a couple of pounds lighter than the V-Rex. But I've
never seen a bicycle with more design or component problems than the P-38. For example:

* The downturned handlebars make absolutely no sense on a bike without a body stocking.
They're always in the way when turning sharply, especially because the bar-end controls get
in the way too.

* The brakes (Odyssey A-brake on the front and Shimano XT V-brake on the rear) are simply awful in
comparison with the Avid V-brakes on my V-Rex. They're spongy feeling and difficult to keep from
squealing. (Shimano XT V-brakes, which the P-38 uses on the rear, are notorious for squealing.
Even Shimano's Web site says you probably won't be able to stop them from making noise.)

* The shifter for the front derailer is friction, not indexed. The friction screw kept coming loose
and threatening to fall out on the ground. (I probably could've fixed this with LockTite but the
design is poor. The shifter needs a captive screw.)

* The rear triangle on a P-38 is so "tight" (tubing is too close together) that there's minimal
clearance for the brake shoes. When the brakes are released, the brake shoes almost immediately
hit the frame. (This is one of those things you'd have to see.) It makes it difficult to add any
toe-in to the brakes without them rubbing on the rim. Also, even when the brakes are fully
released (the cable is unhooked) it's a battle to get the tire out between the brake shoes. I
can't imagine why Lightning would build something so mediocre unless the frame design worked
better before V-brakes and they don't want to spend the money retooling the frame.

* I found the Lightning tilting/locking steering riser much less useful than the one from RANS.
First, the position I wanted was in between two of the ratcheted increments. Second, when you
loosen the Lightning steering riser, it immediately wants to flop forward into your face. In
comparison, the one from RANS has a fixed (but adjustable) forward position and simply swings
forward for convenience.

* The P-38's funky handlebars require equally funky, custom-bent brake levers. The levers provided
by Lightning lack the "power" (mechanical advantage) adjustment present on others levers used with
V-brakes. I like the ability to tune the performance of the brakes.

* Riding the P-38 didn't feel that much different than my V-Rex. I didn't get on the P-38 and take
off like a jet, or anything the least bit dramatic. If it outperformed the V-Rex at anything, I
failed to notice it.

Given the above, I quickly realized that Lightning's vision of the perfect bicycle was considerably
different from mine. I probably could've fixed most of my concerns by rebuilding the P-38, but I was
thoroughly disgusted and priced it for a quick sale instead. (Actually, I was anxious to sell it
before I gave in to my impulse to have it crushed into a paperweight.)

A nicely upgraded V-Rex costs about $1000 less than a P-38 XT. Although I know it has its fans, I
think the P-38 is a poor value. Having owned a P-38, I wouldn't recommend one to anybody.

Frank Calloway

Cletus, you "forgot" to mention the amazingly rude woman who handles the phones and who refuses to
answer customer questions as they are " a waste of our time". I own a P-38 and love it, but honesty
compells me to bring up the unhappy fact of this Le Quan person's unpleasent and frankly
anti-customer attitudes. After all, she is the one who will answer the phone when the poor customer
calls for advice or assistance.

Don said:

... I am almost equally frustrated at Bachetta. They never answer my emails. I can not buy a
frame/seat/stem only and build it up. I am forced to pay for parts that I do not want. I need to
see/ride the bike first to see how many parts I can salvage. I am afraid the rims that come with
it are too wide for 1.0 tires. That means two complete new wheels. If I have to replace rims, I
will use better hubs. I know the crank and splined bottom bracket have to go so I can put on a
short TA or Thorn. I think the rest of the parts would be acceptable. But the color is arguably
the ugliest bike color I have ever seen. Maybe it will grow on me.

Don,

I sent several emails to a bicycle dealer [1] once and received no replies. About a day after my
most recent email, I received a general email from the dealer to his customers apologizing for his
email system having problems and that he had lost over a weeks worth of incoming messages. When I
receive no reply to an email, I now always keep this possibility in mind.

Have you ever seen a 1999-2000 RANS Tailwind? You might appreciate "Giro" green more if you have. 🙂
[2] Of course, the ugliest shade of green has to be that used in many US public schools in the
1950's and 1960's.

[1] Sadly, now retired from the business.
[2] The Bianchi faithful will wish to crucify me for this, but I find their "celeste verde" one of
the least attractive shades of green.

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

Michael Devenis said:

Cletus, you "forgot" to mention the amazingly rude woman who handles the phones and who refuses to
answer customer questions as they are " a waste of our time". I own a P-38 and love it, but
honesty compells me to bring up the unhappy fact of this Le Quan person's unpleasent and frankly
anti-customer attitudes. After all, she is the one who will answer the phone when the poor
customer calls for advice or assistance.

For what it is worth, Le Quan happens to be Tim Brummer's wife.

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

comments below:

"Frank Calloway @earthlink.net>" <flcallowayemail1<nospam> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Note that I've posted this response to inquiries about the P-38 at

various

Quoted message said:

times. Loyal P-38 owners insist that I'm maligning a great bike, but these were my honest
impressions.)

please, we do want "honest inpressions" and not someone just making stuff up

Quoted message said:

Jim,

I bought a Lightning P-38 XT without having ridden one and it was the most disappointing bicycle
I've ever owned. Note that I'm comparing it to an upgraded RANS V-Rex purchased from Angletech..

lesson: never buy a bike without first riding it.

Quoted message said:

The Lightning seat is nice, and the P-38 is a couple of pounds lighter

than

Quoted message said:

the V-Rex. But I've never seen a bicycle with more design or component problems than the P-38. For
example:

* The downturned handlebars make absolutely no sense on a bike without a body stocking. They're
always in the way when turning sharply, especially because the bar-end controls get in the
way too.

I love the downturned handlebars, after the geting used to it phase, I find them the most
comfortable of any of my bikes I've owned. While it is a closed cockpit, I rarely bump anything,
where you properly fited?

Quoted message said:

* The brakes (Odyssey A-brake on the front and Shimano XT V-brake on the rear) are simply awful in
comparison with the Avid V-brakes on my V-Rex. They're spongy feeling and difficult to keep from
squealing. (Shimano XT V-brakes, which the P-38 uses on the rear, are notorious for squealing.

Even

Quoted message said:

Shimano's Web site says you probably won't be able to stop them from

making

Quoted message said:

noise.)

* The shifter for the front derailer is friction, not indexed. The

friction

Quoted message said:

screw kept coming loose and threatening to fall out on the ground. (I probably could've fixed this
with LockTite but the design is poor. The shifter needs a captive screw.)

you just have the damnedist luck, don't you?

Quoted message said:

* The rear triangle on a P-38 is so "tight" (tubing is too close together) that there's minimal
clearance for the brake shoes. When the brakes are released, the brake shoes almost immediately
hit the frame. (This is one

of

Quoted message said:

those things you'd have to see.) It makes it difficult to add any toe-in

to

Quoted message said:

the brakes without them rubbing on the rim. Also, even when the brakes are fully released (the
cable is unhooked) it's a battle to get the tire out between the brake shoes. I can't imagine why
Lightning would build

something

Quoted message said:

so mediocre unless the frame design worked better before V-brakes and they don't want to spend the
money retooling the frame.

* I found the Lightning tilting/locking steering riser much less useful

than

Quoted message said:

the one from RANS. First, the position I wanted was in between two of the ratcheted increments.
Second, when you loosen the Lightning steering

riser,

Quoted message said:

it immediately wants to flop forward into your face. In comparison, the

one

Quoted message said:

from RANS has a fixed (but adjustable) forward position and simply swings forward for convenience.

the P-38 works best without the tilting riser as originaly desined

Quoted message said:

* The P-38's funky handlebars require equally funky, custom-bent brake levers. The levers provided
by Lightning lack the "power" (mechanical advantage) adjustment present on others levers used
with V-brakes. I like the ability to tune the performance of the brakes.

I can't argue, the P-38 must use the custom-bent brake levers, BUT they have always worked great for
me, and again, I find this setup vary comfortable

Quoted message said:

* Riding the P-38 didn't feel that much different than my V-Rex. I didn't get on the P-38 and take
off like a jet, or anything the least bit

dramatic.

Quoted message said:

If it outperformed the V-Rex at anything, I failed to notice it.

ok, the V-Rex I had was prety stock, and my P-83 is maxed out, so I can't compair with the same
componet set, but I find a WORLD of diferance in the performanc of the two.

Quoted message said:

Given the above, I quickly realized that Lightning's vision of the perfect bicycle was
considerably different from mine. I probably could've fixed

most

Quoted message said:

of my concerns by rebuilding the P-38, but I was thoroughly disgusted and priced it for a quick
sale instead. (Actually, I was anxious to sell it before I gave in to my impulse to have it
crushed into a paperweight.)

A nicely upgraded V-Rex costs about $1000 less than a P-38 XT. Although I know it has its fans, I
think the P-38 is a poor value. Having owned a

P-38,

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't recommend one to anybody.

Frank Calloway

two vary diferant experinces ride one for your self and decide, MY P-38 is NOT for sale!!

Mark

Quoted message said:

I am almost equally frustrated at Bachetta. They never answer my emails. I can not buy a
frame/seat/stem only and build it up. I am forced to pay for parts that I do not want. I need to
see/ride the bike first to see how many parts I can salvage. I am afraid the rims that come with
it are too wide for 1.0 tires. That means two complete new wheels. If I have to replace rims, I
will use better hubs. I know the crank and splined bottom bracket have to go so I can put on a
short TA or Thorn. I think the rest of the parts would be acceptable. But the color is arguably
the ugliest bike color I have ever seen. Maybe it will grow on me.

Your experience with the Bacchetta staff is certainly different than mine. I have found them to be
very good about returning emails, usually within 24 hours which is pretty good considering this must
be one of their busier time periods. I have found their staff to be anxious to share their advice
from everone including Mark C, John, Rich and Mike.

Your experience with Lightning seems to be consistent with what others have shared on-line, although
I haven't ever purchased one of their bikes.....hmmm maybe there is a connection.

As to purchasing other parts, selling new or slightly used parts on the internet is actually pretty
easy and I hate to sell anything.

Pat McShane

Quoted message said:

I love the downturned handlebars, after the geting used to it phase, I

find

Quoted message said:

them the most comfortable of any of my bikes I've owned. While it is a closed cockpit, I rarely
bump anything, where you properly fited?

I don't see how fitting had anything to do with it. When making *sharp* turns, such as a U-turn on a
two-lane road, I had to swing my knee out and around the handlebar to keep from hitting it. I don't
think it's physically possible to do otherwise. I guess I must make more U-turns than average. 🙂

Frank Calloway

Tom, Is Le Quan the woman in the photographs in the bike literature?

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Michael Devenis said:

Cletus, you "forgot" to mention the amazingly rude woman who handles the phones and who refuses
to answer customer questions as they are " a waste of our time". I own a P-38 and love it, but
honesty compells me to bring up the unhappy fact of this Le Quan person's unpleasent and frankly
anti-customer attitudes. After all, she is the one who will answer the phone when the poor
customer calls for advice or assistance.

For what it is worth, Le Quan happens to be Tim Brummer's wife.

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

Tom, Yes I always consider the odd email got lost in the melee but I had sent three over a several
month period that were never answered. I sent them from my account also (not via Outlook Express) so
I know they worked. Rich Pinto also privately emailed me with the post above. I appreciate that very
much and will take full advantage of
it. He will probably sorry he gave me his direct address 🙂

I agree the the Celeste verde is one of the least attractive shades of green. It is also one of the
least attractive shades of blue. It takes awards in two categories. My other unfavorite is safety
orange. I think I can tolerate the Celeste better because it is less intense. The BP Green is
intense and thus results in intense reaction. If my LBS ever gets one in (small) I will go for a
test ride. That will be my first close-up of the bike. I will take both my blue and orange riding
glasses (orange should be funky) to see if that helps. Since it will probably be after my vacation,
I will steal a barf bag from the airplane and bring it along also. Sorry Giro owners, I just can not
help myself 🙂 Maybe the intensity will grow on me.

I am anxious for a test ride. Looking forward to a 20" front wheel. Bacchetta owners have been very
fond of their bikes so that is very encouraging.

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Don,

I sent several emails to a bicycle dealer [1] once and received no replies. About a day after my
most recent email, I received a general email from the dealer to his customers apologizing for his
email system having problems and that he had lost over a weeks worth of incoming messages. When I
receive no reply to an email, I now always keep this possibility in mind.

Have you ever seen a 1999-2000 RANS Tailwind? You might appreciate "Giro" green more if you have.
🙂 [2] Of course, the ugliest shade of green has to be that used in many US public schools in the
1950's and 1960's.

[1] Sadly, now retired from the business.
[2] The Bianchi faithful will wish to crucify me for this, but I find their "celeste verde" one of
the least attractive shades of green.

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

(Don) said:

they worked. Rich Pinto also privately emailed me with the post above. I appreciate that very much
and will take full advantage of
it. He will probably sorry he gave me his direct address 🙂

His e-mail address is listed on the Bacchetta web site. Every time I e-mailed him, he's replied
promptly and personally with a detailed answer.

Which address did you send your previous messages to? Maybe you could send Rich some detailed
information about your previous mail so they can look into it.

As for Lightning, one 'bent shop owner said Lightning isn't very good at dealing with individual
customers and that I should go through the shop I purchased from to have any problems fixed. So I
guess the moral is to buy from a reputable shop. I bought my Stealth from Hostel Shoppe and when I
had a problem, they were able to get a replacement part from Lightning with minimal time and hassle
(on my part).

Ken Ken Kobayashi [email hidden] solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jppersonalOpen ↗

Rich:

Are you now selling framesets?

--
--Scott [email hidden] Cut the "tail" to send email.

"RCPINTO" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am almost equally frustrated at Bachetta. They never answer my emails. I can not buy a
frame/seat/stem only and build it up. I am forced to pay for parts that I do not want. I need to
see/ride the bike first to see how many parts I can salvage.

Don

Can you tell me when these emails were sent? Email me at [email hidden]. I checked
my old mail going back about 21 days

and

Quoted message said:

could'nt find anything. We always try to answer all our emails promptly

when

Quoted message said:

possible, but during the busy season errors are possible.

If you give me the combination of parts you are looking for, I'll see

if

Quoted message said:

they are sold separately. Sometimes they are not. Email me and I'll try

to

Quoted message said:

help.

Thanks
Rich Pinto
Bacchetta Bicycles

Don said:

Tom, Is Le Quan the woman in the photographs in the bike literature?

She is the person who appears to be balancing the P-38 with her left foot in this picture.
<http://www.lightningbikes.com/sp38leq.jpg>

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Cletus, you "forgot" to mention the amazingly rude woman who handles the phones and who refuses to
answer customer questions as they are " a waste of our time". I own a P-38 and love it, but
honesty compells me to bring up the unhappy fact of this Le Quan person's unpleasent and frankly
anti-customer attitudes. After all, she is the one who will answer the phone when the poor
customer calls for advice or assistance.

I have never found LeQuan to be rude. I don't think English is LeQuan's first language and you may
be confusing an abruptness and directness that comes from that fact as being rude.

I say, cut her some slack. How well could you communicate if you were dumped into a foreign country?
I've been there. it is not easy.

No Bic?

FWIW, LCD has (at least in the past) monitored this NG. So your comments may be noted. As a small
family run business, LCD has to rely on customer service and satisfaction to stay in the game.

--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Rich:

How are you? I just have a big bump on the side of my foot, but it's not painful. Just concerned it
might get sore on a long bike ride, but I haven't tried it out yet. See you around.

--
--Scott [email hidden] Cut the "tail" to send email.

"RCPINTO" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Rich:

Are you now selling framesets?

--
--Scott [email hidden] Cut the "tail" to send email.

Hi Scott

How are you? Sorry to hear about your injury, get better, its spring!

Yes we are, but the best person to speak to about that is Mike in

sales. He

Quoted message said:

will be able to tell you the current availability of framesets.

Thanks, Rich

Cletus:

I've been hearing about this woman for as long as I've been using ARBR. It's not as though they
don't have a responsibility to place someone reasonable, with decent people skills, in customer
relations. And it's not as though there aren't other good bikes around. Once you've *bought* the
bike, you pretty much *have* to put up with her. But since you don't really *have* to put your [censored]
in that ringer...

--
--Scott [email hidden] Cut the "tail" to send email.

"Cletus D. Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Cletus, you "forgot" to mention the amazingly rude woman who handles the phones and who refuses
to answer customer questions as they are " a waste of our time". I own a P-38 and love it, but
honesty compells me to bring up the unhappy fact of this Le Quan person's unpleasent and frankly
anti-customer attitudes. After all, she is the one who will answer the phone when the poor
customer calls for advice or assistance.

I have never found LeQuan to be rude. I don't think English is LeQuan's first language and you may
be confusing an abruptness and directness that comes from that fact as being rude.

I say, cut her some slack. How well could you communicate if you were dumped into a foreign
country? I've been there. it is not easy.

No Bic?

FWIW, LCD has (at least in the past) monitored this NG. So your comments may be noted. As a small
family run business, LCD has to rely on customer service and satisfaction to stay in the game.

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Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
- Bellaire, TX USA -