P-R Odds

"chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, Hincapie was left stranded again at Flanders, and now no 'Slava'
for Roubaix. I say he's got no chance in hell. I've heard George say
Postal was his best option, but someone has to be telling him they
can't support him...

Ekimov out

US Postal Service's Viatcheslav Ekimov, third place in last year's
Paris-Roubaix, has been forced to forfeit his place in this year's
team. Ekimov injured his wrist in the Dwars door Vlaanderen on March
24. He returned to race last week in De Panne, but abandoned early.
Once again back on the road at the Tour of Flanders, the tough Russian
found the going too tough and decided to take a pass for the coming
classics.

I thought Max VH was supposed to be flying now. Haven't seen much of him in
the last two weeks.

I keep wondering what would happen if Riis could get his hands on George.

Bob C.

it doesnt matter if he has support or not. remember when boonan was towing
him to the finish last year? he ended up in a ditch on his back. boonen said
screw this clown, im going on to a podium finish. he cannot and will not
ever win P-R. he doesn't have the abilities necessary for such victory.
in his own words, "forgot to eat", yea, after your fifth or sixth P-R you
should have this figured out.....

"chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, Hincapie was left stranded again at Flanders, and now no 'Slava'
for Roubaix. I say he's got no chance in hell. I've heard George say
Postal was his best option, but someone has to be telling him they
can't support him...

Ekimov out

US Postal Service's Viatcheslav Ekimov, third place in last year's
Paris-Roubaix, has been forced to forfeit his place in this year's
team. Ekimov injured his wrist in the Dwars door Vlaanderen on March
24. He returned to race last week in De Panne, but abandoned early.
Once again back on the road at the Tour of Flanders, the tough Russian
found the going too tough and decided to take a pass for the coming
classics.

If he could turn timid Tyler into a champion who knows...but George
seems stuck with USPS. Too bad, he has the physical talents.

CH

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, Hincapie was left stranded again at Flanders, and now no 'Slava'
for Roubaix. I say he's got no chance in hell. I've heard George say
Postal was his best option, but someone has to be telling him they
can't support him...

Ekimov out

US Postal Service's Viatcheslav Ekimov, third place in last year's
Paris-Roubaix, has been forced to forfeit his place in this year's
team. Ekimov injured his wrist in the Dwars door Vlaanderen on March
24. He returned to race last week in De Panne, but abandoned early.
Once again back on the road at the Tour of Flanders, the tough Russian
found the going too tough and decided to take a pass for the coming
classics.

I thought Max VH was supposed to be flying now. Haven't seen much of him in
the last two weeks.

I keep wondering what would happen if Riis could get his hands on George.

Bob C.

"JTN" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

it doesnt matter if he has support or not. remember when boonan was towing
him to the finish last year? he ended up in a ditch on his back. boonen said
screw this clown, im going on to a podium finish. he cannot and will not
ever win P-R. he doesn't have the abilities necessary for such victory.
in his own words, "forgot to eat", yea, after your fifth or sixth P-R you
should have this figured out.....

"chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, Hincapie was left stranded again at Flanders, and now no 'Slava'
for Roubaix. I say he's got no chance in hell. I've heard George say
Postal was his best option, but someone has to be telling him they
can't support him...

Ekimov out

US Postal Service's Viatcheslav Ekimov, third place in last year's
Paris-Roubaix, has been forced to forfeit his place in this year's
team. Ekimov injured his wrist in the Dwars door Vlaanderen on March
24. He returned to race last week in De Panne, but abandoned early.
Once again back on the road at the Tour of Flanders, the tough Russian
found the going too tough and decided to take a pass for the coming
classics.

George is lifelong friends and connected with Lance. George isn't
going anywhere until Lance retires, and then there might be a move,
but until then... He's got Eki (well not this weekend, but normally),
Joachim, Max, and several others. He's got the team support, he
just hasn't lived up to his potential, quite yet. He's still got
time.

Tom

[email hidden] (chris) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

If he could turn timid Tyler into a champion who knows...but George
seems stuck with USPS. Too bad, he has the physical talents.

All is not lost. He has at least 5 more good years in him, and postal doesn't.

chris said:

I've heard George say
Postal was his best option, but someone has to be telling him they
can't support him...

Here is George's palmares page:
http://www.hincapie.com/biography.cfm

He has a win in a midweek semi-classic. He has zero (that's ZERO
folks) podium finishes in big weekend races. Zero. None. It has
never happened.

If you were looking for a star to build a classics team around,
why would you pick George? The list of guys with better records
as classics riders is really long.

Don't get me wrong. I like George. But I cannot imagine anyone
giving him a better deal than USP. That would be a crazy-ass thing
to do. If he were Belgian he would be expected to ride in support
of one of the many Belgian riders with better records in cobbled
classics than he has. If Boonen hadn't left USP George wouldn't
even be team leader.

So if George is saying that USP is his best option I would take
him at his word. He is very lucky that there are no other
options for an American team that wishes to be led in the
classics by an American rider.

If I were George and someone was telling me that there were
better options for me than USP I would check them for bloodshot
eyes.

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]

time?
I just don't have that feeling. I think he has always been a top 5-10
finisher, just no a champion. after seeing the amateur mistakes in his PR he
should have placed top 2, I gave up hope....
not eating and not being able to keep the wheel of your domo is not a
mistake a leader makes.

"Tom Arsenault" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"JTN" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it doesnt matter if he has support or not. remember when boonan was

towing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

him to the finish last year? he ended up in a ditch on his back. boonen

said

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

screw this clown, im going on to a podium finish. he cannot and will not
ever win P-R. he doesn't have the abilities necessary for such victory.
in his own words, "forgot to eat", yea, after your fifth or sixth P-R

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

should have this figured out.....

"chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, Hincapie was left stranded again at Flanders, and now no 'Slava'
for Roubaix. I say he's got no chance in hell. I've heard George say
Postal was his best option, but someone has to be telling him they
can't support him...

Ekimov out

US Postal Service's Viatcheslav Ekimov, third place in last year's
Paris-Roubaix, has been forced to forfeit his place in this year's
team. Ekimov injured his wrist in the Dwars door Vlaanderen on March
24. He returned to race last week in De Panne, but abandoned early.
Once again back on the road at the Tour of Flanders, the tough Russian
found the going too tough and decided to take a pass for the coming
classics.

George is lifelong friends and connected with Lance. George isn't
going anywhere until Lance retires, and then there might be a move,
but until then... He's got Eki (well not this weekend, but normally),
Joachim, Max, and several others. He's got the team support, he
just hasn't lived up to his potential, quite yet. He's still got
time.

Tom

I wonder if Americans would start to pay more attention to the major classics,
rather than Le Tour, if Hincapie won Paris-Roubaix.

-Sonarrat.

Bob Schwartz said:

If you were looking for a star to build a classics team around,
why would you pick George? The list of guys with better records
as classics riders is really long.

"He is the strongest rider in the peloton and could ride Museeuw,
Boonen, van Petegem, Bettini et al off his wheel any time he chooses."
--anon

We'll probably never know the answer to that. But if he, or another
American did, it's somewhat doubtful. Too much of a cultural difference
between the Tour and the Classics.

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]..> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wonder if Americans would start to pay more attention to the major

classics,

Quoted message said:

rather than Le Tour, if Hincapie won Paris-Roubaix.

-Sonarrat.

"Roubaix" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]..> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wonder if Americans would start to pay more attention to the major
classics, rather than Le Tour, if Hincapie won Paris-Roubaix.

Quoted message said:

We'll probably never know the answer to that. But if he, or another
American did, it's somewhat doubtful. Too much of a cultural difference
between the Tour and the Classics.

Well, I think of the styles of races that we have in America. Besides the
criteriums, which are emblematic of American cycling in the world view, we've
got these things which resemble the Criterium International, many of them
amateur/professional affairs... we've got small-scale stage races in the style
of the Tour de Suisse or Pais Vasco...

But then, we've got our own World Cup, too, namely the PCT (Pro Cycling Tour),
and the single biggest crowd ever assembled for an American bike race was for
its season finisher last year, the T-Mobile International/SF Grand Prix... which
I believe qualifies as a kind of American Classic. (BTW, it seems this race has
been downgraded from UCI 1.3 to 1.9.1. Why? Too popular?)

-Sonarrat.

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]..> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Roubaix" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]..> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wonder if Americans would start to pay more attention to the major
classics, rather than Le Tour, if Hincapie won Paris-Roubaix.

Quoted message said:

We'll probably never know the answer to that. But if he, or another
American did, it's somewhat doubtful. Too much of a cultural difference
between the Tour and the Classics.

Well, I think of the styles of races that we have in America. Besides the
criteriums, which are emblematic of American cycling in the world view,

we've

Quoted message said:

got these things which resemble the Criterium International, many of them
amateur/professional affairs... we've got small-scale stage races in the

style

Quoted message said:

of the Tour de Suisse or Pais Vasco...

But then, we've got our own World Cup, too, namely the PCT (Pro Cycling

Tour),

Quoted message said:

and the single biggest crowd ever assembled for an American bike race was

for

Quoted message said:

its season finisher last year, the T-Mobile International/SF Grand Prix...

which

Quoted message said:

I believe qualifies as a kind of American Classic. (BTW, it seems this

race has

Quoted message said:

been downgraded from UCI 1.3 to 1.9.1. Why? Too popular?)

-Sonarrat.

What cycling 'stars' does the American public know if you went into a
'sports bar' and said their names? Hampsten (Grand Tour winner), Hamilton
(LBL winner)? Nothstein (Oly Gold Medal winner)? Horner?

Probably none of the above.

Both Armstrong and LeMond became popularized partially because they overcame
tremendous adversity, i.e. lots o' juicy up close and personal type stuff.
The next closest thing is Hamilton w/ his broken bones, and he's barely on
the radar, and not because of his LBL win either.

Your average Joe doesn't discern Paris-Roubaix from your local road race.

The best way for Americans to pay more attention to the classics, or any
bike race for that matter, would be to have the major sports network
producers and announcers and print media editors see a couple of _good_ US
races to learn some racing concepts, then fly them on an all expense (read:
unlimited beer) paid junket to Belgium for the two weeks leading up to and
including Paris-Roubaix.

For the media, you have real sports (pretty much anything consistently
covered on mainstream networks and major newspapers, even if it is NASCAR)
and you have freak shows. As long as the powers-that-be in the sports media
don't understand bicycle racing, it will remain a freak show in their minds.

Roubaix said:

We'll probably never know the answer to that. But if he, or another
American did, it's somewhat doubtful. Too much of a cultural difference
between the Tour and the Classics.

Quoted message said:

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]..> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I wonder if Americans would start to pay more attention to the major classics,
rather than Le Tour, if Hincapie won Paris-Roubaix.

Uh, Tyler Hamilton won Liege-Bastogne-Liege last year. Okay, so
it isn't as singular as P-R, but it is the oldest classic and
one of the five monuments (he was the first American to win one).
I didn't notice a huge upsurge of American interest in the classics;
even you guys seem to have forgotten about it. Although OLN has
started same day (not live) coverage of several classics, not just
Paris-Roubaix, which is nice. Perhaps we have Tyler to thank for that.

"JTN" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

time?
I just don't have that feeling. I think he has always been a top 5-10
finisher, just no a champion.

I remember some butt-sucking moron saying the same thing about Andre
Tschmil.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What cycling 'stars' does the American public know if you went into a
'sports bar' and said their names? Hampsten (Grand Tour winner), Hamilton
(LBL winner)? Nothstein (Oly Gold Medal winner)? Horner?

Probably none of the above.

And why is that Carl? When was the last time that you went into a sports
bar, bought a beer and made them put on a bike race? This is a new way to
popularize bicycle racing - try it some time. Damned if it didn't even work
in France during Le Tour - which most people here think is the national
French pastime and which most French are only vaguely aware of.

Quoted message said:

Both Armstrong and LeMond became popularized partially because they

overcame

Quoted message said:

tremendous adversity, i.e. lots o' juicy up close and personal type stuff.

That's because the only people paying any attention were lard-asses sitting
in front of the TV and gulping beer and saying "Gee whizz honey, that guy
overcame a gunshot to the heart to win that there Tour de France thing!
Maybe there's hope for my hardened arteries after all!" The actual exercise
part of it was what was so off-putting.

Sooner or later some idea starved network executive is going to notice more
and more cyclists are turning up on the roads all over the USA. A glimmer of
an idea may just break through, that this represents a segment of the
population to which Sunday afternoon may be spent recovering from the
morning ride while watching Liege-Bastogne-Leige and drinking upscale beer.

Quoted message said:

Your average Joe doesn't discern Paris-Roubaix from your local road race.

And that's because the average Joe hasn't watched much of it. Unfortunately
it occurs on Easter Sunday this year or else you all could go down to the
local Sports Bar and make them put it on the big screen and sit in front of
it with a burger, fries and a draft with a bunch of friends and shout at the
screen for the whole race. You'd be surprised how many times it takes to
break through the bone in the head of your average Joe but once converted
you're in for life.

Quoted message said:

From: "Roubaix" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

We'll probably never know the answer to that. But if he, or another
American did, it's somewhat doubtful. Too much of a cultural difference
between the Tour and the Classics.

I agree. Here in New England we have a few races, and stages in races with
some moderately bad terrain and the whining is off the scale.
There was this really cool cobbled pathway/old road up to the site of an old
fortification just outside Kaiserslautern, Ge. that I used to love to ride on
MTBs. It was buried in the woods, covered with moss for most of the year, and
at about 12%. It was only about a 2 klick road, but it lead into a paved
hiking/bike path trail sytem that was incredible.
Cobbles are everywhere, and you just get used to dealing with them. No big
deal at least from Europeans.
Bill C

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What cycling 'stars' does the American public know if you went into a
'sports bar' and said their names? Hampsten (Grand Tour winner),

Hamilton

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(LBL winner)? Nothstein (Oly Gold Medal winner)? Horner?

Probably none of the above.

And why is that Carl? When was the last time that you went into a sports
bar, bought a beer and made them put on a bike race? This is a new way to
popularize bicycle racing - try it some time. Damned if it didn't even

work

Quoted message said:

in France during Le Tour - which most people here think is the national
French pastime and which most French are only vaguely aware of.

Last time I checked, the TdF was going strong long before somebody came up
with the bright idea of putting a TV in a bar. Probably well before any live
radio broadcasts of the race too. IIRC, the reason for the yellow jersey is
because Le Equipe was/is printed on yellow paper, likely the only form of
mass media covering the event for quite some time.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Carl Sundquist"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

The best way for Americans to pay more attention to the classics, or any
bike race for that matter, would be to have the major sports network
producers and announcers and print media editors see a couple of _good_ US
races to learn some racing concepts, then fly them on an all expense (read:
unlimited beer) paid junket to Belgium for the two weeks leading up to and
including Paris-Roubaix.

For the media, you have real sports (pretty much anything consistently
covered on mainstream networks and major newspapers, even if it is NASCAR)
and you have freak shows. As long as the powers-that-be in the sports media
don't understand bicycle racing, it will remain a freak show in their minds.

I spent a lot of years working for various newspapers, including one short
stint as an assistant sports editor. The sports editor was a major
prep-sports booster and very knowledgeable, played a mean game of tennis,
knew next to nothing about bicycle racing. Since I was a race fiend, I
started writing up some of the local and regional races, shot a few pix,
did an occasional cycling-related column, and slipped AP and NYT
wire-service copy about the Tour into the rag whenever I could. The editor
gradually got interested, recognizing that these folks were athletes, not
just traffic impediments, and eventually became a real cycling fan and
gave racing a little ink from time to time.

Newspapers are no different than any other organization. They're
comfortable with routine, and rich in inertia; it takes a fair amount of
effort -- and some friends on the inside -- to get one to change
direction, even slightly.

You may find this interesting: I don't believe I've ever worked for a
paper whose sports section had a healthy ads-to-news ratio. I have a copy
of today's Colorado Springs Gazette here in front of me, and in the
12-page Sports section, I count five smallish ads: one house ad (for the
paper itself); one for a strip club; one for a massage parlor; one for a
car dealership; and one for a "golf and games" outfit. Nine pages have no
ads at all. Makes you think. Or maybe not.

Cheers,

Patrick O'Grady
Mad Dog Media
http://www.maddogmedia.com

Bob Schwartz <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

chris said:

I've heard George say
Postal was his best option, but someone has to be telling him they
can't support him...

Here is George's palmares page:
http://www.hincapie.com/biography.cfm

He has a win in a midweek semi-classic. He has zero (that's ZERO
folks) podium finishes in big weekend races. Zero. None. It has
never happened.

If you were looking for a star to build a classics team around,
why would you pick George? The list of guys with better records
as classics riders is really long.

Like him and his long metrosexual head or not he has made the
selections for RVV and PR, but he doesn't have the sprint (like PVP or
Bettini) to finish it off with any certainty.

He's up there enough that if things go his way he can win, which is
how he won G-W.

Moose is 39, Tafi is 38, Tchmil won his first World Cup race in '94 at
the age of 31. George is 30, if he sticks around can have another 7-8
tries at the classics.