P**l Sm**h critics

Marten Hoffmann <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

In Dutch discussion groups, all of a sudden PS's wonderful site about
how speed cameras kill turns up. Now I remembered some of the arguments
against his way of reasoning from the top of my head, but I can't find a
certain site I seem to remember. It contained (if I recall correctly) a
methodic "dismemberment" of PSs analysis. Anybody know which URL this
is?

How about
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk/Web/public.nsf/printerfriendly/son_of_12mph

Seems to dismember P**l Sm**h quite well...

--
Chris

Marten Hoffmann said:

In Dutch discussion groups, all of a sudden PS's wonderful site about
how speed cameras kill turns up.

Cue: "I'm a full time _international_ road safety expert"

John B

[email hidden] schreef ...

Quoted message said:

Marten Hoffmann <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

In Dutch discussion groups, all of a sudden PS's wonderful site about
how speed cameras kill turns up. Now I remembered some of the arguments
against his way of reasoning from the top of my head, but I can't find a
certain site I seem to remember. It contained (if I recall correctly) a
methodic "dismemberment" of PSs analysis. Anybody know which URL this
is?

How about
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk/Web/public.nsf/printerfriendly/son_of_12mph

Seems to dismember P**l Sm**h quite well...

Thanks a LOT :-)

--
Regards,
Marten

Marten Hoffmann said:

[email hidden] schreef ...

Quoted message said:

Marten Hoffmann <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

In Dutch discussion groups, all of a sudden PS's wonderful site about
how speed cameras kill turns up. Now I remembered some of the arguments
against his way of reasoning from the top of my head, but I can't find a
certain site I seem to remember. It contained (if I recall correctly) a
methodic "dismemberment" of PSs analysis. Anybody know which URL this
is?

How about
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk/Web/public.nsf/printerfriendly/son_of_12mph

Seems to dismember P**l Sm**h quite well...

Quoted message said:

Thanks a LOT :-)

Shame it's so hopelessly wrong. Shame it completely misses the point.
Shame it only deals with one Safe Speed page out of well over 200.
--
Paul Smith
Scotland, UK
http://www.safespeed.org.uk
please remove "XYZ" to reply by email
One third of roads fatalities are now caused by speed cameras

Paul Smith said:

Shame it's so hopelessly wrong. Shame it completely misses the point.
Shame it only deals with one Safe Speed page out of well over 200.

Hands up those who still dispute my judgement of October 2002:

http://tinyurl.com/5rp8j

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is
by treading on the toes of giants.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/

James Annan said:

Paul Smith said:

Shame it's so hopelessly wrong. Shame it completely misses the point.
Shame it only deals with one Safe Speed page out of well over 200.

Hands up those who still dispute my judgement of October 2002:

http://tinyurl.com/5rp8j

<fx: hand stays firmly on trackball>

Colin

Mohammed Saeed Al-Smith said:

Shame it's so hopelessly wrong. Shame it completely misses the point.
Shame it only deals with one Safe Speed page out of well over 200.

Still in denial? Never mind.

Marten, here's another one for you:
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/web/public.nsf/Documents/One_In_Three

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington
University

James Annan said:

Hands up those who still dispute my judgement of October 2002:
http://tinyurl.com/5rp8j

(checks office)

No hands up hereabouts.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington
University

James Annan vaguely muttered something like ...

Quoted message said:

Paul Smith said:

Shame it's so hopelessly wrong. Shame it completely misses the point.
Shame it only deals with one Safe Speed page out of well over 200.

Hands up those who still dispute my judgement of October 2002:

http://tinyurl.com/5rp8j

Hands firmly down ....

--
Paul ...

(8(|) Homer Rules !!!

"A [censored] is a [censored], no matter what mode of transport they're using."

"James Annan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul Smith said:

Shame it's so hopelessly wrong. Shame it completely misses the point.
Shame it only deals with one Safe Speed page out of well over 200.

Hands up those who still dispute my judgement of October 2002:

http://tinyurl.com/5rp8j

Raises hand.

I think you were too kind to the pillock.

T

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Still in denial? Never mind.

Guy

What a pillock you are, Guy. There are ways of killing children at 3 MPH if
you are an incompetent driver - for example crushing a pram against a wall
because you didn't look behind before reversing.

The whole point of Paul's page is to diss the dubious statistical link that
is misrepresented by speed obsessionists as a causal link between free
travelling speeds and likelihood of death.

As you correctly point out the whole argument goes out the window if we take
into account the thought process of a sensible driver who brakes to avoid
accidents - which is EXACTLY the conclusion Paul wants you and everyone to
come to.

Well done for not getting the irony.

mae <[email hidden]> wedi ysgrifennu:

Quoted message said:

As you correctly point out the whole argument goes out the window if
we take into account the thought process of a sensible driver who
brakes to avoid accidents - which is EXACTLY the conclusion Paul
wants you and everyone to come to.

Ah come on. The conclusion that S***h wants everyone to come to is that he's
not a bad driver just because he got a speeding ticket. That is the _only_
reason behind his """"""""road safety"""""""" campaign.

--
Rob

Please keep conversations in the newsgroup so that all may contribute
and benefit.

r11co said:

The whole point of Paul's page is to diss the dubious statistical link that
is misrepresented by speed obsessionists as a causal link between free
travelling speeds and likelihood of death.

Yet while trying to do the above, Smith provides his own highly dubious
statistical conclusions. How...ironic?

Have you read the "Unsafe At Any Speed" thread? It contains plenty of
background information there on this very issue.

Quoted message said:

As you correctly point out the whole argument goes out the window if we take
into account the thought process of a sensible driver who brakes to avoid
accidents - which is EXACTLY the conclusion Paul wants you and everyone to
come to.

Well done for not getting the irony.

The sad fact is very few drivers are sensible all the time. If they were,
the various laws governing traffic offences would not be necessary. Until
the invention of an infallible idiot detection scheme, speeding remains a
valuable indicator of a driver's basic level of competence and likelihood of
crashing without even considering the increased severity of higher speed
crashes.

ObBike. Breezy today. I nearly ended up going backwards during a
particularly fierce and unexpected gust earlier.

Regards,

-david

Anonymous nym-using coward r11co said:

What a pillock you are, Guy. There are ways of killing children at 3
MPH if you are an incompetent driver - for example crushing a pram
against a wall because you didn't look behind before reversing.

And the probability of killing a child at 20mph is? At 30mph? At 40mph?

Quoted message said:

The whole point of Paul's page is to diss the dubious statistical
link that is misrepresented by speed obsessionists as a causal link
between free travelling speeds and likelihood of death.

Except that
(a) that wasn't the orginal stated purpose
(b) the statistics are not "dodgy" - Joksch's rule of thumb, for example, is
based analysis of large numbers of crashes
(c) Smith is a speeding apologist and the page is part of his ludicrous
pretence that death and speed are not in any way linked.

No, the whole point of Smith's page is that he is the motoring equivalent of
a holocaust denier.

Quoted message said:

As you correctly point out the whole argument goes out the window if
we take into account the thought process of a sensible driver who
brakes to avoid accidents - which is EXACTLY the conclusion Paul
wants you and everyone to come to.

If you accept that drivers will brake, you have to allow for the fact that
they take longer to stop the faster they are going. If you are goign to
pretend they don't brake, then you need to account for the fact that at
12mph I (and many others) could outrun the approaching car.

Either they are going to brake, in which case the page is ludicrous, or they
aren't, in which case the page is - er - ludicrous. If two drivers see a
hazard at the same point, and both brake at the rate used for the HC braking
distance calculations, a driver starting at 40mph will still be doing nearly
30 when the driver who started at 30mph comes to a halt. To pretend that
this has no influence on their likelihood of killing is mischievous.

Interestingly, Joksch asked for his name to be removed from the original
page presenting the same silly arguments, and Smith took it down. When the
page returned Joksch's name was still there, misrepresented in exactly the
same way.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington
University

in message <[email hidden]>, Just zis Guy, you know?

(') said:

Mohammed Saeed Al-Smith said:

Shame it's so hopelessly wrong. Shame it completely misses the point.
Shame it only deals with one Safe Speed page out of well over 200.

Still in denial? Never mind.

Marten, here's another one for you:
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/web/public.nsf/Documents/One_In_Three

Don't Feed the Pillock.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

The trouble with Simon is that he only opens his mouth to change feet.
;; of me, by a 'friend'

Quoted message said:

Don't Feed the Pillock.

Indeed, killfiles are a wonderful invention.

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

[email hidden] schreef ...

Quoted message said:

Shame it's so hopelessly wrong. Shame it completely misses the point.
Shame it only deals with one Safe Speed page out of well over 200.

If one page can so easily be found to contain wrong information and
conclusions, what should we think about the other 199?

--
Regards,
Marten

you know? said:

No, the whole point of Smith's page is that he is the motoring equivalent of
a holocaust denier.

Given the safe speed logo that's a pretty good analogy.

--
Trevor Barton

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Shame it's so hopelessly wrong. Shame it completely misses the point.
Shame it only deals with one Safe Speed page out of well over 200.

If one page can so easily be found to contain wrong information and
conclusions, what should we think about the other 199?

Never been over there to check, but much of the site is probably quite
reasonable - even I can get through to about page seven of the Daily Mail
before I start laughing and wiping my [censored] with the thing.