outside knee pain help

Quoted message said:

I've played with saddle height and it doesn't seem to make a difference.

My

Quoted message said:

next step is going to be to rotate the cleat inwards and add about 2-3mm

of

Quoted message said:

pedal washers to that side, allowing the foot to take its natural outward
pointing position. I may also move the cleat back on the shoe.

Try moving the cleat back first. It can effect a miraculous "cure" for
many. And it's very easy to do, requiring no improvisation of any kind.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Kyle.B.H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Wcbwc.4953$4S5.696@attbi_s52...

Quoted message said:

Looking for some advice on some outside of knee pain I've been having
recently. Here's the relevant info:

- Outside rear of right knee, maybe even the upper right corner of my

calf.

Quoted message said:

I don't believe this is an ITB problem. This seems about an inch and a

half

Quoted message said:

lower and one inch further back than an ITB problem would be, and I have

no

Quoted message said:

pain running or walking.

- Starts a few miles into the ride and progresses. Feels fine once I stop
pedaling.

- My right foot likes to point out, and for the most part I let it.

- I'm using SPD's with some float. Switched from Looks late last season.

- Took 2 weeks off and pain came back on first ride after about 15 miles.
Just took another 3 days off and pain came back after about 4 miles.

I've played with saddle height and it doesn't seem to make a difference.

My

Quoted message said:

next step is going to be to rotate the cleat inwards and add about 2-3mm

of

Quoted message said:

pedal washers to that side, allowing the foot to take its natural outward
pointing position. I may also move the cleat back on the shoe.

Any other suggestions? Anyone have similar pain?

Thx,

Kyle

Kyle.B.H said:

Looking for some advice on some outside of knee pain I've been having
recently. Here's the relevant info:

- Outside rear of right knee, maybe even the upper right corner of my calf.
I don't believe this is an ITB problem. This seems about an inch and a half
lower and one inch further back than an ITB problem would be, and I have no
pain running or walking.

- Starts a few miles into the ride and progresses. Feels fine once I stop
pedaling.

- My right foot likes to point out, and for the most part I let it.

- I'm using SPD's with some float. Switched from Looks late last season.

- Took 2 weeks off and pain came back on first ride after about 15 miles.
Just took another 3 days off and pain came back after about 4 miles.

I've played with saddle height and it doesn't seem to make a difference. My
next step is going to be to rotate the cleat inwards and add about 2-3mm of
pedal washers to that side, allowing the foot to take its natural outward
pointing position. I may also move the cleat back on the shoe.

Any other suggestions? Anyone have similar pain?

Thx,

Kyle

Dear Kyle,

Talk to your friendly local orthopedic surgeon, or at least
to a doctor who actually studied all those tangled ligaments
and tendons and can manipulate your leg and knee while
watching to see when you wince.

Sometimes they even take x-rays.

Things may be getting worse, since it ain't normal for one
foot to stick out to the side.

Good luck,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Things may be getting worse, since it ain't normal for one
foot to stick out to the side.

Carl: I've fit so many people over the years, and seen so many interesting
things, I don't think I could tell you what's "normal" anymore. People
aren't anywhere near as symmetrical as I once thought, with one arm longer,
or a leg shorter, or hip sockets placed a bit differently side to side. But
somehow people have adapted over the years and gotten along just fine.

Also, one of the more interesting things you find is that people who have
significant-enough differences to cause them trouble off the bike often find
very little issue when riding. They expect to, but it doesn't (always)
happen. Probably has something to do with the manner in which your hips can
rock a bit on the saddle (in terms of leg length differences).

And finally, my feet pretty much point the same direction... but few would
say I'm normal.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

In article Wcbwc.4953$4S5.696@attbi_s52 said:

I've played with saddle height and it doesn't seem to make a difference. My
next step is going to be to rotate the cleat inwards and add about 2-3mm of
pedal washers to that side, allowing the foot to take its natural outward
pointing position.

This statement makes it sound like your foot is currently not
able to move in its desired range of motion. Trying to correct
toe-in/toe-out foot position by forcing it into a position you
wish for can be a recipe for trouble. If you wish your foot
pointed straight ahead and adjust the cleat to make it so, the
first thing to do is listen to your body and undo that.

If you have any way to achieve the position you had with last year's
pedals I would revert. Making more random changes to guess at
a solution may simply create more problems - as bad as it feels,
it would be worse if you added another problem on top of it.

If going back to the Looks is the easiest way to solve the problem,
I'd do it.

Also worthwhile to get a sanity check from a fitter with an
experienced eye to make sure something isn't goofy.

Kyle.B.H said:

Looking for some advice on some outside of knee pain I've been
having recently. Here's the relevant info:

- Outside rear of right knee, maybe even the upper right corner of
my calf. I don't believe this is an ITB problem. This seems about
an inch and a half lower and one inch further back than an ITB
problem would be, and I have no pain running or walking.

This sounds like it could be tendinitis of the biceps femoris or
popliteus, from looking through Andy Pruitt's e-book. He describes:

SYMPTOMS
Pain on the outer side of the knee about one inch below the middle of
the joint and slightly above the bony protuberance.

CAUSES
* A too-high saddle or riding a fixed-gear (track) bike.

* Bow-legged people often suffer from this problem.

* Pedals with excessive float make the problem worse because the
biceps femoris and popliteal tendons have to work hard to stabilize
the resulting excessive tibial rotation.

TREATMENT
* Apply ice as many as three times a day for 15-20 minutes each time.

* Take a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID) with food.

* Lower the saddle about 3 mm.

* Switch to a pedal system with limited or no float.

IF THESE REMEDIES DON'T WORK

* Because biceps femoris tendinitis is often caused by riding a
fixed-gear (track) bike, changing to a bike with a freewheel often
alleviates the problem. While riding a fixed gear, the hamstrings are
used to decelerate, putting them under load and sometimes irritating
the biceps femoris tendon.

"Kyle.B.H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<Wcbwc.4953$4S5.696@attbi_s52>...

Quoted message said:

Looking for some advice on some outside of knee pain I've been having
recently. Here's the relevant info:

- Outside rear of right knee, maybe even the upper right corner of my calf.
I don't believe this is an ITB problem. This seems about an inch and a half
lower and one inch further back than an ITB problem would be, and I have no
pain running or walking.

- Starts a few miles into the ride and progresses. Feels fine once I stop
pedaling.

- My right foot likes to point out, and for the most part I let it.

- I'm using SPD's with some float. Switched from Looks late last season.

- Took 2 weeks off and pain came back on first ride after about 15 miles.
Just took another 3 days off and pain came back after about 4 miles.

I've played with saddle height and it doesn't seem to make a difference. My
next step is going to be to rotate the cleat inwards and add about 2-3mm of
pedal washers to that side, allowing the foot to take its natural outward
pointing position. I may also move the cleat back on the shoe.

Any other suggestions? Anyone have similar pain?

Thx,

Kyle

I had similar pain a number of years ago, with a right foot that wants
to point out, and solved it by going with pedals that had lots of
float and putting pedal washers on that side, which got the pedal a
little further outboard. I found that free float worked better for me
and currently use Speedplay Frog pedals with no problem. I also liked
Speedplay X/2 pedals.

When I tried SPD's for a ride, even with the float cleat and minimum
tension, I had problems. I switched back to Speedplays and my knee
pain is now a memory.

Kyle.B.H said:

Any other suggestions? Anyone have similar pain?

ask an ortho doc. this sounds like the symptoms that i had from
a torn meniscus.

a good ortho doc will send you to a physical therapist who will
do some diagnostic exercises with you to help narrow down the
problem. if it appears likely that it's a cartilege or bone
issue, the doc will probably want to MRI your knee.

Quoted message said:

- My right foot likes to point out, and for the most part I let it.

Me too...I use pedal extenders and Kore Platform pedals. My right foot
points out because of a bad hip. I tried Speedplay Frogs but they didn't
give my foot enough freedom.

I also recommend seeing an Orthopedic doctor. I thought that I had a
injured groin muscle until an orthopedic type did an X-ray.

http://www.bikescor.com/product/knee.htm

http://www.pacelineproducts.com/menu_pages/products/PedalSpacers.htm

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=kneesaver+pedal&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&selm=9cat6v08ki2vm3a1r0p4g5cfgb96330371%404ax.com&rnum=8

Also google "q-factor"