Ouch, Black Toenail

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:20:27 GMT, [email hidden] (Gary)

Quoted message said:

Hi, just completed a 55 mile hike (North Downs Way) over 4 days, no
problems with blisters etc, but some of the steeper downhill sections
were quite pressing against my big toe. A day after finishing under
the toenail started to turn black and seems to be getting worse
slightly by day, though still not much pain. Saw the Nurse and she
said its not infected.

Question; Is this common and is it likey I will lose the nail, how
should I treat it now and is there anything I could have done to
prevent it, would it be OK to still walk a few miles on it?>

Hi Gary,

Congrat's on the walk 🙂

Unfortunately, black toenails are not uncommon. I've not had them from
walking, but I've frequently had them - and lost nails - from running.

From what you've said, it sounds to me as though you will lose the
nail. Be prepared for it to take literally months.

You ask whether it's still ok to walk with it. I think it is - it's
simply a matter of how painful you find it. If it's not hurting so
much that you don't want to walk then just get out there. You've
probably lost a nail, but another one will grow back and it's not
likely to be a real problem in the long term.

You also ask whether there's anything you could have done to prevent
it. Based on my experience, it's more likely than not that your
footwear didn't fit properly. When I first started running, and saw
other people with black toenails, it seemed obvious to me that their
shoes were too small: I couldn't understand why it wasn't equally
obvious to them. After I'd run for a couple of years, though, and done
quite a lot of road training for long runs, I realised that I was
getting black toenails also from shoes that were too large, as my foot
would slop around in the shoe and my toes would strike the front on
downhills.

With the benefit of hindsight, my advice would be to go to a
specialist fitter, buy some properly fitting boots/shoes (whatever you
want to use) and also something that's likely to hold your foot in
place within your shoe i.e. some sort of footbed. I had *extremely*
sore feet after the Pennine Way last summer because my boots didn't
fit well (despite being fitted by a reputable shop - sometimes these
things happen). I now have custom Superfeet footbeds both in my
walking boots and my running shoes, and my foot no longer moves
around. Therefore, my toes no longer bang on the front.

This is just my experience, but I hope it'll be helpful to you 🙂 If
you're interested in the Superfeet footbeds (and you can get either
custom moulded, or off the shelf) then see
http://www.anatom.co.uk/dealers_page.html for a list of UK dealers and
qualified fitters.

Good luck! Don't let the toe get you down: see it as a badge of
achievement 🙂

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

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On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:09:00 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>
wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Question; Is this common and is it likey I will lose the nail, how
should I treat it now and is there anything I could have done to
prevent it, would it be OK to still walk a few miles on it?>

Apologies - I forgot to add this bit.

The blackness is caused by blood trapped under your nail. If it's no
longer very sore then - as far as I know - you don't need to treat it.
Just make sure it stays clean, like the rest of your nails.

If it's still very sore, though, that's probably caused by the
pressure of blood under the nail. In those circumstances it might be
worth getting that pressure released. I know from stuff that I've read
that hardened runners will sometimes heat up a pin in a flame and push
it through the nail, allowing the blood underneath to escape. I'd not
be keen on that myself... but if your nail is still sore then I'd hope
that your GP would be willing to perform a similar service for you.

So, I think it depends on how sore it is now i.e. whether it appears
to be settling down of its own volition or not.

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

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Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
wonderful person Gary <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

Hi, just completed a 55 mile hike (North Downs Way) over 4 days, no
problems with blisters etc, but some of the steeper downhill sections
were quite pressing against my big toe. A day after finishing under
the toenail started to turn black and seems to be getting worse
slightly by day, though still not much pain. Saw the Nurse and she
said its not infected.

Question; Is this common and is it likey I will lose the nail, how
should I treat it now and is there anything I could have done to
prevent it, would it be OK to still walk a few miles on it?>

Yep, it's quite common. Especially if you didn't trim your toenails
before you started (just an extra 1/8" of toenail length can cause the
problem), and/or if your boots are too small. You ought be able to get
at least a finger down the back when they are unlaced (without your toes
crumpling up at the front), and then you should have them laced up tight
enough that your toes can't even =reach= the front. That's why some of
the better shops have ramps you can try walking DOWN in new boots. Since
laces can stretch when walking (especially if you didn't get them really
pulled through at the first attempt, or if they get damp) you may need
to stop and retie them after a mile or two.

As to whether you'll lose the nail, depends how bad the damage is.
There's a reasonable chance that you will. As for how to treat it, go
with the advice of the nurse (or chiropodist).

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
SC recommends the use of Firefox; Get smart, or get assimilated.

Gary <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Hi, just completed a 55 mile hike (North Downs Way) over 4 days, no
problems with blisters etc, but some of the steeper downhill sections
were quite pressing against my big toe. A day after finishing under
the toenail started to turn black and seems to be getting worse
slightly by day, though still not much pain. Saw the Nurse and she
said its not infected.

Question; Is this common and is it likey I will lose the nail, how
should I treat it now and is there anything I could have done to
prevent it, would it be OK to still walk a few miles on it?>

Nobody else has mentioned the prevention, but after losing a big toenail
I always make sure I keep them cut short.
Haven't lost any since...
--
Gordon Harris

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:09:00 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:20:27 GMT, [email hidden] (Gary)

Quoted message said:

Hi, just completed a 55 mile hike (North Downs Way) over 4 days, no
problems with blisters etc, but some of the steeper downhill sections
were quite pressing against my big toe. A day after finishing under
the toenail started to turn black and seems to be getting worse
slightly by day, though still not much pain. Saw the Nurse and she
said its not infected.

Question; Is this common and is it likey I will lose the nail, how
should I treat it now and is there anything I could have done to
prevent it, would it be OK to still walk a few miles on it?>

Hi Gary,

Congrat's on the walk 🙂

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, black toenails are not uncommon. I've not had them from
walking, but I've frequently had them - and lost nails - from running.

From what you've said, it sounds to me as though you will lose the
nail. Be prepared for it to take literally months.

You ask whether it's still ok to walk with it. I think it is - it's
simply a matter of how painful you find it. If it's not hurting so
much that you don't want to walk then just get out there. You've
probably lost a nail, but another one will grow back and it's not
likely to be a real problem in the long term.

You also ask whether there's anything you could have done to prevent
it. Based on my experience, it's more likely than not that your
footwear didn't fit properly. When I first started running, and saw
other people with black toenails, it seemed obvious to me that their
shoes were too small: I couldn't understand why it wasn't equally
obvious to them. After I'd run for a couple of years, though, and done
quite a lot of road training for long runs, I realised that I was
getting black toenails also from shoes that were too large, as my foot
would slop around in the shoe and my toes would strike the front on
downhills.

With the benefit of hindsight, my advice would be to go to a
specialist fitter, buy some properly fitting boots/shoes (whatever you
want to use) and also something that's likely to hold your foot in
place within your shoe i.e. some sort of footbed. I had *extremely*
sore feet after the Pennine Way last summer because my boots didn't
fit well (despite being fitted by a reputable shop - sometimes these
things happen). I now have custom Superfeet footbeds both in my
walking boots and my running shoes, and my foot no longer moves
around. Therefore, my toes no longer bang on the front.

This is just my experience, but I hope it'll be helpful to you 🙂 If
you're interested in the Superfeet footbeds (and you can get either
custom moulded, or off the shelf) then see
http://www.anatom.co.uk/dealers_page.html for a list of UK dealers and
qualified fitters.

Good luck! Don't let the toe get you down: see it as a badge of
achievement 🙂

Best wishes,

Hello.

Thnx and thnx for the comprehensive reply from yourself and the other
guys.

Couple of points that may be of help to others in conclusion. I didnt
tighten laces very tight, didnt have a decent insole as I really never
seemed to need one, although I do walk with thin socks and a thicker
large sock for any distance stuff and the boots were large enough, but
clearly I felt the toe was being pushed up against the boot on the
downhill slopes so maybe the footbeds would be a good idea.

Many thanks all.

PS: Boots were from Aldi and cost ?14.99 last year, done a good few
hundred miles in them without any problems, usually around 5/10 miles.
This is my longest trip of consecutive mileage. The walking never
seems to get any easier, although on day four Im sure it was a doddle
but that just could be the home straight.

I'd cancelled Hadrians Wall many times on day 1/2 and 3, but now Im
raring to try it again.

Gordon Harris said:

Gary <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Hi, just completed a 55 mile hike (North Downs Way) over 4 days, no
problems with blisters etc, but some of the steeper downhill sections
were quite pressing against my big toe. A day after finishing under
the toenail started to turn black and seems to be getting worse
slightly by day, though still not much pain. Saw the Nurse and she
said its not infected.

Question; Is this common and is it likey I will lose the nail, how
should I treat it now and is there anything I could have done to
prevent it, would it be OK to still walk a few miles on it?>

Nobody else has mentioned the prevention, but after losing a big toenail
I always make sure I keep them cut short.
Haven't lost any since...

Yes I had noticed that in the past and did trim the nails before I
left, although on reflection I think I could have trimmed the
offending nail a little more.

GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
wonderful person Gary <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

Hi, just completed a 55 mile hike (North Downs Way) over 4 days, no
problems with blisters etc, but some of the steeper downhill sections
were quite pressing against my big toe. A day after finishing under
the toenail started to turn black and seems to be getting worse
slightly by day, though still not much pain. Saw the Nurse and she
said its not infected.

Question; Is this common and is it likey I will lose the nail, how
should I treat it now and is there anything I could have done to
prevent it, would it be OK to still walk a few miles on it?>

Yep, it's quite common. Especially if you didn't trim your toenails
before you started (just an extra 1/8" of toenail length can cause the
problem), and/or if your boots are too small. You ought be able to get
at least a finger down the back when they are unlaced (without your toes
crumpling up at the front), and then you should have them laced up tight
enough that your toes can't even =reach= the front. That's why some of
the better shops have ramps you can try walking DOWN in new boots. Since
laces can stretch when walking (especially if you didn't get them really
pulled through at the first attempt, or if they get damp) you may need
to stop and retie them after a mile or two.

I suspect the fault lies in the fine trimming 🙂 I'll remember it next
time...lol

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:09:00 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:20:27 GMT, [email hidden] (Gary)

Quoted message said:

Hi, just completed a 55 mile hike (North Downs Way) over 4 days, no
problems with blisters etc, but some of the steeper downhill sections
were quite pressing against my big toe. A day after finishing under
the toenail started to turn black and seems to be getting worse
slightly by day, though still not much pain. Saw the Nurse and she
said its not infected.

Question; Is this common and is it likey I will lose the nail, how
should I treat it now and is there anything I could have done to
prevent it, would it be OK to still walk a few miles on it?>

Hi Gary,

Congrat's on the walk 🙂

Unfortunately, black toenails are not uncommon. I've not had them from
walking, but I've frequently had them - and lost nails - from running.

From what you've said, it sounds to me as though you will lose the
nail. Be prepared for it to take literally months.

I've just got rid of the last black bit after getting it last August.
Looked horrible, but no pain at all - it's taken an age to grow out
though.
--
R
o
o
n
e
y

"I always knew the entire Green party were nutters" - Ken Livingstone

Rooney said:

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:09:00 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:20:27 GMT, [email hidden] (Gary)

Quoted message said:

Hi, just completed a 55 mile hike (North Downs Way) over 4 days, no
problems with blisters etc, but some of the steeper downhill sections
were quite pressing against my big toe. A day after finishing under
the toenail started to turn black and seems to be getting worse
slightly by day, though still not much pain. Saw the Nurse and she
said its not infected.

Question; Is this common and is it likey I will lose the nail, how
should I treat it now and is there anything I could have done to
prevent it, would it be OK to still walk a few miles on it?>

Hi Gary,

Congrat's on the walk 🙂

Unfortunately, black toenails are not uncommon. I've not had them from
walking, but I've frequently had them - and lost nails - from running.

From what you've said, it sounds to me as though you will lose the
nail. Be prepared for it to take literally months.

I've just got rid of the last black bit after getting it last August.
Looked horrible, but no pain at all - it's taken an age to grow out
though.

Lost both pinky toe nails and the nail off the next toe on my right foot
after walking part of the WHW last July. All three had grown back in again
by November when I started a new job which means walking approx. 8-10 miles
a day, I'm not with the post anymore so no more heavy bags 🙂. They issued
us with boots, I lost both pinky toe nails again, they have grown back in
and I now wear my own boots and I have had no bother since, these are the
same boots I wore on the WHW and I am wearing the same type of sock so I
don't know why I lost the toenails the first time 🙂.

--

Don`t Worry, Be Happy
Sandy
--
E-Mail:- [email hidden]
Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk
Looking for a webhost? Try http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=2966019

Sandy Birrell said:

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:09:00 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:20:27 GMT, [email hidden] (Gary)
wrote:

> Hi, just completed a 55 mile hike (North Downs Way) over 4 days, no
> problems with blisters etc, but some of the steeper downhill sections
> were quite pressing against my big toe. A day after finishing under
> the toenail started to turn black and seems to be getting worse
> slightly by day, though still not much pain. Saw the Nurse and she
> said its not infected.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, black toenails are not uncommon. I've not had them from
walking, but I've frequently had them - and lost nails - from running.

Quoted message said:

Lost both pinky toe nails and the nail off the next toe on my right foot
after walking part of the WHW last July. All three had grown back in again
by November when I started a new job which means walking approx. 8-10 miles
a day, I'm not with the post anymore so no more heavy bags 🙂. They issued
us with boots, I lost both pinky toe nails again, they have grown back in
and I now wear my own boots and I have had no bother since.

That is the problem with footwear issued as uniform. They think they
are doing you a favour, but the "one style fits all" attitude is a
right pain in the er... foot. What we'd really like is a subsidy to
buy our own or a choice based on fitting an actual pair rather than
saying, "What size are you? Here try these. Like 'em or lump 'em."

--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Phil Cook said:

That is the problem with footwear issued as uniform. They think they
are doing you a favour, but the "one style fits all" attitude is a
right pain in the er... foot. What we'd really like is a subsidy to
buy our own or a choice based on fitting an actual pair rather than
saying, "What size are you? Here try these. Like 'em or lump 'em."

When I worked with the post I got a letter from my doctor to say that the
boots were causing me pain and discomfort and that I would be better with
real walking boots, I have arthritus in both big toes and my ankles. I took
it into my manager and they paid me back a portion of the cost. When I
changed jobs they sent me for a medical and their doctor passed me but said
if the work boots caused me any bother to wear my own, which I am doing,
she also told me I was covered by the DDA (Disability Discrimination Act)
so they can't say anything 🙂

--

Don`t Worry, Be Happy
Sandy
--
E-Mail:- [email hidden]
Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk
Looking for a webhost? Try http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=2966019

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 08:57:21 +0100, Phil Cook
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| That is the problem with footwear issued as uniform.

Long ago in the RAF I could get footwear which fitted me. The size I still
remember was 6 fitting 8. Since them I have had to wear 7s or larger.

| They think they
| are doing you a favour, but the "one style fits all" attitude is a
| right pain in the er... foot. What we'd really like is a subsidy to
| buy our own or a choice based on fitting an actual pair rather than
| saying, "What size are you? Here try these. Like 'em or lump 'em."

--
Dave F
Flight is right

I had a black big toe nails for several years after my first skiing holiday
in too small boots for the first half day( and the nails were extremely
painful for several days) and was assuming I would lose them but eventually
over the course of a couple of months they just got better. No idea why!
So you may lose them but my money is that you won't so don't necessarily
expect the worst!
But yes, keep your nails short!!
"Gary" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Gordon Harris said:

Gary <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Hi, just completed a 55 mile hike (North Downs Way) over 4 days, no
problems with blisters etc, but some of the steeper downhill sections
were quite pressing against my big toe. A day after finishing under
the toenail started to turn black and seems to be getting worse
slightly by day, though still not much pain. Saw the Nurse and she
said its not infected.

Question; Is this common and is it likey I will lose the nail, how
should I treat it now and is there anything I could have done to
prevent it, would it be OK to still walk a few miles on it?>

Nobody else has mentioned the prevention, but after losing a big toenail
I always make sure I keep them cut short.
Haven't lost any since...

Yes I had noticed that in the past and did trim the nails before I
left, although on reflection I think I could have trimmed the
offending nail a little more.

Sandy Birrell said:

Rooney wrote:

Lost both pinky toe nails and the nail off the next toe on my right foot
after walking part of the WHW last July. All three had grown back in again
by November when I started a new job which means walking approx. 8-10 miles
a day, I'm not with the post anymore so no more heavy bags 🙂. They issued
us with boots, I lost both pinky toe nails again, they have grown back in
and I now wear my own boots and I have had no bother since, these are the
same boots I wore on the WHW and I am wearing the same type of sock so I
don't know why I lost the toenails the first time 🙂.

Hi,

I also walked the WHW, in September. My right pinky nail fell off around
Christmas...
: )

It was raining every day when I did the Way, and I'm convinced that my
pinky smashing into wet leather thousands of times did did manage to
stretch/widen the boot in the offending point.
BTW: My boots also started getting mouldy!!!

Chris