OT: tankless water heaters

WillBrink said:

Anyone have experience with tankless/on demand water heaters? I know
they are more common in Europe as they take up less space, use less
energy, and last longer. Was thinking of replacing my big wasteful tank
heater with a tankless/on demand heater. Opinions? Likes dislikes of
those who have one?

They're called Gas Combi Boilers in the UK and are very efficient,
practical and economic. They heat the water as required and there is
no waste. Always instant and always on demand.

Not much good for showering, so would recommend you get powerful
electric showers in addition (our two are 12.5 KW each). Very good
choice for the smaller house, which suits our holiday home in
Cornwall, where it also copes with the central heating and fifteen
radiators.

Highly recommended.

"WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone have experience with tankless/on demand water heaters? I know
they are more common in Europe as they take up less space, use less
energy, and last longer. Was thinking of replacing my big wasteful tank
heater with a tankless/on demand heater. Opinions? Likes dislikes of
those who have one?

I have known a couple people who have had them and used them at their house.
They like them fine except for two complaints.

1) No hot water if the power goes out.

2) They heat the water a certain amount and no more. In other words if the
water is cold, it will get so hot, but no hotter. This is OK if you do not
require real hot water. But if you like really hot baths, they won't do.
Except, perhaps in the summer.

Maybe the newer ones don't have this problem. But any of them I have tried
simply did not heat the water enough for a really hot bath.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Lee Michaels said:

"WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone have experience with tankless/on demand water heaters? I know
they are more common in Europe as they take up less space, use less
energy, and last longer. Was thinking of replacing my big wasteful tank
heater with a tankless/on demand heater. Opinions? Likes dislikes of
those who have one?

I have known a couple people who have had them and used them at their house.
They like them fine except for two complaints.

1) No hot water if the power goes out.

2) They heat the water a certain amount and no more. In other words if the
water is cold, it will get so hot, but no hotter. This is OK if you do not
require real hot water. But if you like really hot baths, they won't do.
Except, perhaps in the summer.

Maybe the newer ones don't have this problem. But any of them I have tried
simply did not heat the water enough for a really hot bath.

Thanx for the info. Makes sense. North east may not be good for tankless.

Quoted message said:

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

Lee Michaels said:

"WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone have experience with tankless/on demand water heaters? I know
they are more common in Europe as they take up less space, use less
energy, and last longer. Was thinking of replacing my big wasteful tank
heater with a tankless/on demand heater. Opinions? Likes dislikes of
those who have one?

I have known a couple people who have had them and used them at their house.
They like them fine except for two complaints.

1) No hot water if the power goes out.

2) They heat the water a certain amount and no more. In other words if the
water is cold, it will get so hot, but no hotter. This is OK if you do not
require real hot water. But if you like really hot baths, they won't do.
Except, perhaps in the summer.

Maybe the newer ones don't have this problem. But any of them I have tried
simply did not heat the water enough for a really hot bath.

Ours does; it is to do with the BTU of the boiler and the flow-set of
the water pressure. A good engineer will balance the two and the bath
and other water can be almost at boiling temperature.

"WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Lee Michaels said:

"WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone have experience with tankless/on demand water heaters? I know
they are more common in Europe as they take up less space, use less
energy, and last longer. Was thinking of replacing my big wasteful

tank

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

heater with a tankless/on demand heater. Opinions? Likes dislikes of
those who have one?

I have known a couple people who have had them and used them at their

house.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They like them fine except for two complaints.

1) No hot water if the power goes out.

2) They heat the water a certain amount and no more. In other words if

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

water is cold, it will get so hot, but no hotter. This is OK if you do

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

require real hot water. But if you like really hot baths, they won't

do.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Except, perhaps in the summer.

Maybe the newer ones don't have this problem. But any of them I have

tried

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

simply did not heat the water enough for a really hot bath.

Thanx for the info. Makes sense. North east may not be good for tankless.

I built my house with both. I have tankless heaters close to the kitchen and
master bath fixtures. The tankless heats the water until the tank heated
water arrives. I never run out of hot water.

WillBrink said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Lee Michaels said:

"WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone have experience with tankless/on demand water heaters? I know
they are more common in Europe as they take up less space, use less
energy, and last longer. Was thinking of replacing my big wasteful tank
heater with a tankless/on demand heater. Opinions? Likes dislikes of
those who have one?

I have known a couple people who have had them and used them at their house.
They like them fine except for two complaints.

1) No hot water if the power goes out.

2) They heat the water a certain amount and no more. In other words if the
water is cold, it will get so hot, but no hotter. This is OK if you do not
require real hot water. But if you like really hot baths, they won't do.
Except, perhaps in the summer.

Maybe the newer ones don't have this problem. But any of them I have tried
simply did not heat the water enough for a really hot bath.

Thanx for the info. Makes sense. North east may not be good for tankless.

This is where using "killfiles", allegedly or not, can sometimes be
self-defeating. ;o)

"JRH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

WillBrink said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Lee Michaels said:

"WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Anyone have experience with tankless/on demand water heaters? I know
> they are more common in Europe as they take up less space, use less
> energy, and last longer. Was thinking of replacing my big wasteful

tank

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> heater with a tankless/on demand heater. Opinions? Likes dislikes of
> those who have one?
>
I have known a couple people who have had them and used them at their

house.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They like them fine except for two complaints.

1) No hot water if the power goes out.

2) They heat the water a certain amount and no more. In other words if

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

water is cold, it will get so hot, but no hotter. This is OK if you do

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

require real hot water. But if you like really hot baths, they won't

do.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Except, perhaps in the summer.

Maybe the newer ones don't have this problem. But any of them I have

tried

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

simply did not heat the water enough for a really hot bath.

Thanx for the info. Makes sense. North east may not be good for tankless.

This is where using "killfiles", allegedly or not, can sometimes be
self-defeating. ;o)

Wrong again, Chuck. He could've went to a plumbing group.

"JRH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

WillBrink said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Lee Michaels said:

"WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Anyone have experience with tankless/on demand water heaters? I know
> they are more common in Europe as they take up less space, use less
> energy, and last longer. Was thinking of replacing my big wasteful
> tank
> heater with a tankless/on demand heater. Opinions? Likes dislikes of
> those who have one?
>
I have known a couple people who have had them and used them at their
house.
They like them fine except for two complaints.

1) No hot water if the power goes out.

2) They heat the water a certain amount and no more. In other words if
the
water is cold, it will get so hot, but no hotter. This is OK if you do
not
require real hot water. But if you like really hot baths, they won't
do.
Except, perhaps in the summer.

Maybe the newer ones don't have this problem. But any of them I have
tried
simply did not heat the water enough for a really hot bath.

Thanx for the info. Makes sense. North east may not be good for tankless.

This is where using "killfiles", allegedly or not, can sometimes be
self-defeating. ;o)

Is this chuffer??

Will alway had a certain amount of class that "chuffers" like you wouldn't
understand.

No reason to killfile him.

Just you chuffer.

John said:

JRH said:

WillBrink said:

"Lee Michaels" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> "WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > Anyone have experience with tankless/on demand water heaters? I know
> > they are more common in Europe as they take up less space, use less
> > energy, and last longer. Was thinking of replacing my big wasteful

tank

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > heater with a tankless/on demand heater. Opinions? Likes dislikes of
> > those who have one?
> >
> I have known a couple people who have had them and used them at their

house.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> They like them fine except for two complaints.
>
> 1) No hot water if the power goes out.
>
> 2) They heat the water a certain amount and no more. In other words if

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> water is cold, it will get so hot, but no hotter. This is OK if you do

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> require real hot water. But if you like really hot baths, they won't

do.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Except, perhaps in the summer.
>
> Maybe the newer ones don't have this problem. But any of them I have

tried

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> simply did not heat the water enough for a really hot bath.

Thanx for the info. Makes sense. North east may not be good for tankless.

This is where using "killfiles", allegedly or not, can sometimes be
self-defeating. ;o)

Wrong again, Chuck. He could've went to a plumbing group.

I don't see the problem with killfiling. I received all the posts
except for Hudson's whinging.

John said:

"JRH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

WillBrink said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Lee Michaels" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> "WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Anyone have experience with tankless/on demand water heaters? I know
> > they are more common in Europe as they take up less space, use less
> > energy, and last longer. Was thinking of replacing my big wasteful

tank

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > heater with a tankless/on demand heater. Opinions? Likes dislikes of
> > those who have one?
> >
> I have known a couple people who have had them and used them at their

house.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> They like them fine except for two complaints.
>
> 1) No hot water if the power goes out.
>
> 2) They heat the water a certain amount and no more. In other words if

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> water is cold, it will get so hot, but no hotter. This is OK if you do

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> require real hot water. But if you like really hot baths, they won't

do.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Except, perhaps in the summer.
>
> Maybe the newer ones don't have this problem. But any of them I have

tried

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> simply did not heat the water enough for a really hot bath.

Thanx for the info. Makes sense. North east may not be good for tankless.

This is where using "killfiles", allegedly or not, can sometimes be
self-defeating. ;o)

Wrong again, Chuck. He could've went to a plumbing group.

Of course there's always that. But there some precious souls here that
think that MFW can be all things to all people. ;o)

Lee Michaels said:

"JRH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

WillBrink said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Lee Michaels" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> "WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
> > Anyone have experience with tankless/on demand water heaters? I know
> > they are more common in Europe as they take up less space, use less
> > energy, and last longer. Was thinking of replacing my big wasteful
> > tank
> > heater with a tankless/on demand heater. Opinions? Likes dislikes of
> > those who have one?
> >
> I have known a couple people who have had them and used them at their
> house.
> They like them fine except for two complaints.
>
> 1) No hot water if the power goes out.
>
> 2) They heat the water a certain amount and no more. In other words if
> the
> water is cold, it will get so hot, but no hotter. This is OK if you do
> not
> require real hot water. But if you like really hot baths, they won't
> do.
> Except, perhaps in the summer.
>
> Maybe the newer ones don't have this problem. But any of them I have
> tried
> simply did not heat the water enough for a really hot bath.

Thanx for the info. Makes sense. North east may not be good for tankless.

This is where using "killfiles", allegedly or not, can sometimes be
self-defeating. ;o)

Is this chuffer??

Will alway had a certain amount of class that "chuffers" like you wouldn't
understand.

No reason to killfile him.

Just you chuffer.

Whoooosh! ;o)

JMW said:

John said:

JRH said:

WillBrink <[email hidden]> wrote:
> "Lee Michaels" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> "WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> > Anyone have experience with tankless/on demand water heaters? I know
>> > they are more common in Europe as they take up less space, use less
>> > energy, and last longer. Was thinking of replacing my big wasteful

tank

Quoted message said:

>> > heater with a tankless/on demand heater. Opinions? Likes dislikes of
>> > those who have one?
>> >
>> I have known a couple people who have had them and used them at their

house.

Quoted message said:

>> They like them fine except for two complaints.
>>
>> 1) No hot water if the power goes out.
>>
>> 2) They heat the water a certain amount and no more. In other words if

the

Quoted message said:

>> water is cold, it will get so hot, but no hotter. This is OK if you do

not

Quoted message said:

>> require real hot water. But if you like really hot baths, they won't

do.

Quoted message said:

>> Except, perhaps in the summer.
>>
>> Maybe the newer ones don't have this problem. But any of them I have

tried

Quoted message said:

>> simply did not heat the water enough for a really hot bath.
>
>Thanx for the info. Makes sense. North east may not be good for tankless.

This is where using "killfiles", allegedly or not, can sometimes be
self-defeating. ;o)

Wrong again, Chuck. He could've went to a plumbing group.

I don't see the problem with killfiling. I received all the posts
except for Hudson's whinging.

For a man with his self attested IQ, John Williams is obviously
oblivious to the delicious irony in this trite piece of information.
;o)

WillBrink said:

Anyone have experience with tankless/on demand water heaters? I know
they are more common in Europe as they take up less space, use less
energy, and last longer. Was thinking of replacing my big wasteful tank
heater with a tankless/on demand heater. Opinions? Likes dislikes of
those who have one?

They're also common in Japan, and, increasingly, in China. My old
apartment had one. Couldn't complain, really. You can leave it in
plugged in all the time, so you can have hot water all of the time.
Or you can plug it in maybe half an hour before you take a shower.
Then you get enough hot water for about a 5 minute shower, maybe
10 minutes, but then that's stretching it. With the water heater
model that I had, the water came out plenty hot. I can't vouch for
other models, though.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

WillBrink said:

Anyone have experience with tankless/on demand water heaters? I know
they are more common in Europe as they take up less space, use less
energy, and last longer. Was thinking of replacing my big wasteful tank
heater with a tankless/on demand heater. Opinions? Likes dislikes of
those who have one?

They're also common in Japan, and, increasingly, in China. My old
apartment had one. Couldn't complain, really. You can leave it in
plugged in all the time, so you can have hot water all of the time.
Or you can plug it in maybe half an hour before you take a shower.
Then you get enough hot water for about a 5 minute shower, maybe
10 minutes, but then that's stretching it.

That's the part that make no sense. If the entire idea of this type of
heater is "on demand" hot water, then how do you "run out" of hot water?
Never running out is one of the reasons to have such a water heater. If
it some how runs out of hot water, then there is little reason to have
an on demand/tankless heater. I can run out of hot water using my 50gal
tank unit thanks you very much, which I often do.

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

WillBrink said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

WillBrink said:

Anyone have experience with tankless/on demand water heaters? I know
they are more common in Europe as they take up less space, use less
energy, and last longer. Was thinking of replacing my big wasteful tank
heater with a tankless/on demand heater. Opinions? Likes dislikes of
those who have one?

They're also common in Japan, and, increasingly, in China. My old
apartment had one. Couldn't complain, really. You can leave it in
plugged in all the time, so you can have hot water all of the time.
Or you can plug it in maybe half an hour before you take a shower.
Then you get enough hot water for about a 5 minute shower, maybe
10 minutes, but then that's stretching it.

That's the part that make no sense. If the entire idea of this type of
heater is "on demand" hot water, then how do you "run out" of hot water?
Never running out is one of the reasons to have such a water heater. If
it some how runs out of hot water, then there is little reason to have
an on demand/tankless heater. I can run out of hot water using my 50gal
tank unit thanks you very much, which I often do.

He's talking about a different type of water heater with limited
capacity. See my earlier post about Combi Boilers, which will explain
what you need.

WillBrink said:

That's the part that make no sense. If the entire idea of this type of
heater is "on demand" hot water, then how do you "run out" of hot water?
Never running out is one of the reasons to have such a water heater. If
it some how runs out of hot water, then there is little reason to have
an on demand/tankless heater. I can run out of hot water using my 50gal
tank unit thanks you very much, which I often do.

It takes that much water to wash out your [censored]?

/ ~ .\
|\__/
| |
| . |
| `.` |
__| `` | `.` |/~~\
/ | | | `` |/~~\
| | | | | `` | /
\ ` . . | |
\ . . ` /
\ . . /
\ . /
| . |
| |
| |

WillBrink said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Or you can plug it in maybe half an hour before you take a shower.
Then you get enough hot water for about a 5 minute shower, maybe
10 minutes, but then that's stretching it.

That's the part that make no sense. If the entire idea of this type of
heater is "on demand" hot water, then how do you "run out" of hot water?
Never running out is one of the reasons to have such a water heater.

Well, it can't instantly make hot water. Maybe when they say "on
demand," they only mean that it can make hot water faster than a
larger unit. It can make it pretty fast, within 5 or 10 minutes, but
it won't stay hot long enough for a shower unless you wait half
an hour.

Anyway, the situation I outlined above was a worst case scenario
in that you haven't plugged it in yet, but you want to take a shower
right away. Say it's wintertime, but you left it plugged in overnight.
In the morning you can take a hot shower for 20 maybe 25
minutes. After that though, it becomes a tepid water heater.

"WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

WillBrink said:

Anyone have experience with tankless/on demand water heaters? I know
they are more common in Europe as they take up less space, use less
energy, and last longer. Was thinking of replacing my big wasteful tank
heater with a tankless/on demand heater. Opinions? Likes dislikes of
those who have one?

They're also common in Japan, and, increasingly, in China. My old
apartment had one. Couldn't complain, really. You can leave it in
plugged in all the time, so you can have hot water all of the time.
Or you can plug it in maybe half an hour before you take a shower.
Then you get enough hot water for about a 5 minute shower, maybe
10 minutes, but then that's stretching it.

That's the part that make no sense. If the entire idea of this type of
heater is "on demand" hot water, then how do you "run out" of hot water?
Never running out is one of the reasons to have such a water heater. If
it some how runs out of hot water, then there is little reason to have
an on demand/tankless heater. I can run out of hot water using my 50gal
tank unit thanks you very much, which I often do.

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

You have to look at how many gallons of water per minute it can heat and
compare that to the flow rate of your showerhead. You might not run out but
you could flow more water through the unit than it can bring to a
comfortable temperature, particularly if you are running other appliances
such as a dishwasher or washing machine.

JRH said:

WillBrink said:

Anyone have experience with tankless/on demand water heaters? I know
they are more common in Europe as they take up less space, use less
energy, and last longer. Was thinking of replacing my big wasteful tank
heater with a tankless/on demand heater. Opinions? Likes dislikes of
those who have one?

They're called Gas Combi Boilers in the UK and are very efficient,
practical and economic. They heat the water as required and there is
no waste. Always instant and always on demand.

Not much good for showering, so would recommend you get powerful
electric showers in addition (our two are 12.5 KW each). Very good
choice for the smaller house, which suits our holiday home in
Cornwall, where it also copes with the central heating and fifteen
radiators.

Highly recommended.

Tell me more about this electric shower. The building I'm in never
runs out of hot water but it does fluctuate all over the place. Very
inconvenient.

--
Is this thing on?