(OT) SKINNED ALIVE

"ytrewq" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

ANIMALS SKINNED ALIVE

(A Shocking Look Inside Chinese Fur Farms)

(CAREFUL: THIS VIDEO IS VERY SHOCKING!!!)

Mmmm, I've got a pair of gloves made out of that stuff. Very warm they are
too.

elyob said:

"ytrewq" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

ANIMALS SKINNED ALIVE

(A Shocking Look Inside Chinese Fur Farms)

(CAREFUL: THIS VIDEO IS VERY SHOCKING!!!)

Mmmm, I've got a pair of gloves made out of that stuff. Very warm they are
too.

I'll assume you didn't watch the video.

ytrewq said:

http://www.furisdead.com/feat/ChineseFurFarms/

I like to think that I have a pretty strong stomach - but I couldn't
watch much of this video. The sight of the skinned and forlorn
carcass writhing in pain was too much for me.

Tilly said:

I like to think that I have a pretty strong stomach - but I couldn't
watch much of this video. The sight of the skinned and forlorn
carcass writhing in pain was too much for me.

I *never* watch anything that might come back in dreams later. And I
don't have anything made of fur either.

Zog The Undeniable said:

Tilly said:

I like to think that I have a pretty strong stomach - but I couldn't
watch much of this video. The sight of the skinned and forlorn
carcass writhing in pain was too much for me.

I *never* watch anything that might come back in dreams later. And I
don't have anything made of fur either.

Not the sort of thing I'll click on either. But I'm quite happy with
fur. Warm /and/ CO2 neutral.

Not Responding said:

Zog The Undeniable said:

Tilly said:

I like to think that I have a pretty strong stomach - but I couldn't
watch much of this video. The sight of the skinned and forlorn
carcass writhing in pain was too much for me.

I *never* watch anything that might come back in dreams later. And I
don't have anything made of fur either.

Not the sort of thing I'll click on either. But I'm quite happy with
fur. Warm /and/ CO2 neutral.

I'm not sure that you'd have the heart to make those last two comments
if you did click on it. Indeed, I suggest you do click on it so you
understand what it is that you are unwittingly condoning.

Not Responding said:

Zog The Undeniable said:

Tilly said:

I like to think that I have a pretty strong stomach - but I couldn't
watch much of this video. The sight of the skinned and forlorn
carcass writhing in pain was too much for me.

I *never* watch anything that might come back in dreams later. And I
don't have anything made of fur either.

Not the sort of thing I'll click on either. But I'm quite happy with
fur. Warm /and/ CO2 neutral.

From ignorance our comfort flows,
The only wretched are the wise.

Matthew Prior

Tilly said:

I'm not sure that you'd have the heart to make those last two comments
if you did click on it. Indeed, I suggest you do click on it so you
understand what it is that you are unwittingly condoning.

Fur!

Not necessarily the method by which _some_ of it is obtained. Sadly I
tend to take PETAs stuff with a pinch of salt as they are primarily
interested in shock factor stuff. That video (As much of it as I could
take) is a damning report of one fur farm. Be careful how much you read
into it.

BTW. Does sheepskin count as "fur"?

Jon

On Tue, 24 May 2005 00:36:28 +0000, Jon Senior

jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk said:

Tilly said:

I'm not sure that you'd have the heart to make those last two comments
if you did click on it. Indeed, I suggest you do click on it so you
understand what it is that you are unwittingly condoning.

Fur!

Not necessarily the method by which _some_ of it is obtained. Sadly I
tend to take PETAs stuff with a pinch of salt as they are primarily
interested in shock factor stuff. That video (As much of it as I could
take) is a damning report of one fur farm. Be careful how much you read
into it.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Indeed, I'd go further and question if the video was entirely stage
managed to shock. I cannot see any other reason why they'd want to
keep an animal alive while harvesting the fur.

Regardless, it was a callous remark from 'Not Responding', mitigated
only by the fact that he had not seen the video.

Tilly said:

Not Responding said:

Zog The Undeniable said:

Tilly wrote:

>I like to think that I have a pretty strong stomach - but I couldn't
>watch much of this video. The sight of the skinned and forlorn
>carcass writhing in pain was too much for me.

I *never* watch anything that might come back in dreams later. And I
don't have anything made of fur either.

Not the sort of thing I'll click on either. But I'm quite happy with
fur. Warm /and/ CO2 neutral.

I'm not sure that you'd have the heart to make those last two comments
if you did click on it. Indeed, I suggest you do click on it so you
understand what it is that you are unwittingly condoning.

I'm not at all condoning any video. A video which is distributed
entirely to shock. It tells us absolutely nothing about the ethics of
wearing fur and I don't need to watch it to draw that conclusion.

"Tilly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Regardless, it was a callous remark from 'Not Responding', mitigated
only by the fact that he had not seen the video.

No, it was an approptiate remark which pointed out that this is nothing to
do with cycling, and did it in such a manner as to offend the poster, which
scores bonus points.

clive

ytrewq came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

ANIMALS SKINNED ALIVE

(A Shocking Look Inside Chinese Fur Farms)

Having worked in the dim and distant past at a Slaughterhouse and on a Fur
Farm, I would say that the video is not representative of the killing and
skinning methods usually used.

Even back then, BPC, [1] there was a perceived need and legal requirement to
humanely and properly kill an animal before skinning it, and great pains
were taken to ensure that animals were killed as humanely and quickly as
possible. I know of no good, economical or ethical reason to skin an animal
without first killing it. Indeed, when dead the animal would be easier to
skin, even if simply down to the lack of movement. If they are skinning
them this way then economically it's a bad thing anyway as the pelts are
more likely to be sub-standard.

I would suggest that this video is one Fur Farm, and possibly not
representative of the norm, and might even be a stage managed thing,
intended purely to shock.

Of course, I never worked on Fur farms or in Slaughterhouses in China ...

[1] Before Political Corectness.

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

Smug said:

elyob said:

"ytrewq" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

ANIMALS SKINNED ALIVE

(A Shocking Look Inside Chinese Fur Farms)

(CAREFUL: THIS VIDEO IS VERY SHOCKING!!!)

Mmmm, I've got a pair of gloves made out of that stuff. Very warm they
are too.

I'll assume you didn't watch the video.

Nope. And I won't watch it as it most probably doesn't represent the
huge majority of responsible slaughterers. Of course, in the past we've
never gone about skinning humans ....

On Mon, 23 May 2005 21:07:18 +0100, Tilly <[email hidden]>

wrote in message : said:

Quoted message said:

Not the sort of thing I'll click on either. But I'm quite happy with
fur. Warm /and/ CO2 neutral.

Quoted message said:

I'm not sure that you'd have the heart to make those last two comments
if you did click on it.

Francis was being a bit provocative, but he's right: if you have no
ethical objection to eating meat, then there is no logically
consistent ethical objection to wearing fur. As long as the animals
are humanely killed, which these weren't, but let's not confuse drama
with real life. I can show you scenes of appalling cruelty to
vegetables...

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

you know? said:

As long as the animals
are humanely killed, which these weren't, but let's not confuse drama
with real life.

That's exactly the point. The animals in the video were treated
particularly badly - perhaps it was stage managed, but even so, I
would not want to put a penny of my money towards something that even
encourages such inhumane treatment.

At the same time, I have just ordered a pair of leather walking boots.
But I am confident that the leather has been harvested humanely. I
don't see any hypocrisy there.

On Tue, 24 May 2005 18:31:47 +0100, Tilly <[email hidden]>

wrote in message : said:

That's exactly the point. The animals in the video were treated
particularly badly - perhaps it was stage managed, but even so, I
would not want to put a penny of my money towards something that even
encourages such inhumane treatment.

Look at it this way: would you form a view on medical terminations
based solely on a propaganda film sent you by the pro-life alliance?

Would you make up your mind on the ethics of eating meat based solely
on a propaganda video sent you by a group of militant vegans?

It's propaganda. Watch it with a sceptical mind or don't watch it at
all. There is absolutely no evidence that the video was either
representative of the normal practice, or demonstrated any distinction
between bad practice in harvesting pelts versus skins for tanning.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

you know? said:

Look at it this way: would you form a view on medical terminations
based solely on a propaganda film sent you by the pro-life alliance?

Possibly.

If I saw a film of a Chinese abortion at 30 weeks, and saw a foetus
looking like a baby, perhaps blinking its eyes, I may well agree that
abortion at 30 weeks is wrong.

Of course, my view would not have been based solely on that film, but
neither was my view of Chinese fur farms based solely on one film
clip. My view is based partly on my knowledge of the Chinese and four
trips to the country. My brother has lived in Shanghai for 12 years
and has a Chinese wife. When he first moved to Shanghai the most
common form a butcher looked more like a pet shop, with mostly live
chickens for sale. I didn't have a problem with that, but I do know a
little of how the Chinese, especially outside of the city, treat their
animals.

On Wed, 25 May 2005 07:00:02 +0100, Tilly <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Of course, my view would not have been based solely on that film, but
neither was my view of Chinese fur farms based solely on one film
clip. My view is based partly on my knowledge of the Chinese and four
trips to the country.

So the solution is not to buy animal products - of any type - from
China. As I think I said, the clip does nothing to show that this is
distinct from the way the Chinese handle any other animal products.
But we do know that European fur farms are much more likely to adhere
to what we would view as acceptable standards of treatment.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound