OT: Question for the navigators

Probably need positions for each end of the allotment. Or put a compass on the ground

P

Tom said:

Completely off topic question for anyone on here who has navigation skills.

At 2.30 this afternoon, the sun was shining directly in line with the path
down the middle of my allotment.

Co-ordinates
Lat: 52:13:08N (52.219)
Lon: 2:12:57W (-2.2159)

Is my allotment facing SW or SSW?

There is a bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale resting on the outcome.

Thanks

Tom
--
Return address is dead. Real address is at
happy-penguin.infoaddress.jpgOpen ↗

permajeo said:

Probably need positions for each end of the allotment. Or put a
compass on the ground

I'm fairly sure that with the time and the co-ordinates you can find the
direction of the sun, but as a mere dinghy sailor I don't have the skill :-)
I know some people on here sail, and others on here are very good at maths,
so I thought someone might like to take a pop at it as an intellectual
exercise. I've had a google at it but I'm no wiser.

Tom
--
Return address is dead. Real address is at
http://www.happy-penguin.info/address.jpg

Tom said:

Completely off topic question for anyone on here who has navigation skills.

At 2.30 this afternoon, the sun was shining directly in line with the path
down the middle of my allotment.

Co-ordinates
Lat: 52:13:08N (52.219)
Lon: 2:12:57W (-2.2159)

Is my allotment facing SW or SSW?

There is a bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale resting on the outcome.

Thanks

Tom

SSW
--
Three wheels good, two wheels ok

www.catrike.co.uk

Buck said:

On 2007-02-21 15:58:20 +0000, "Tom" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Is my allotment facing SW or SSW?

SSW

Woo Yay

I win :-)

Is this a guess Buck or did you work it out? (and if so, how?)

Tom
--
Return address is dead. Real address is at
http://www.happy-penguin.info/address.jpg

"Tom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Completely off topic question for anyone on here who has navigation
skills.

At 2.30 this afternoon, the sun was shining directly in line with the path
down the middle of my allotment.

Co-ordinates
Lat: 52:13:08N (52.219)
Lon: 2:12:57W (-2.2159)

Is my allotment facing SW or SSW?

There is a bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale resting on the outcome.

At noon 1200 UTC, the Sun will be directly South and at 1800 UTC it will be
directly West.
At 1500 UTC it will be directly South West and SSW will occur at 1330, so at
1430 it is nearer SW.

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

"Simon Mason" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Completely off topic question for anyone on here who has navigation
skills.

At 2.30 this afternoon, the sun was shining directly in line with the
path down the middle of my allotment.

Co-ordinates
Lat: 52:13:08N (52.219)
Lon: 2:12:57W (-2.2159)

Is my allotment facing SW or SSW?

There is a bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale resting on the outcome.

At noon 1200 UTC, the Sun will be directly South and at 1800 UTC it will
be directly West.
At 1500 UTC it will be directly South West and SSW will occur at 1330, so
at 1430 it is nearer SW.

At 1415 it will be SW by S, which is closer.

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

Tom said:

Completely off topic question for anyone on here who has navigation skills.

At 2.30 this afternoon, the sun was shining directly in line with the path
down the middle of my allotment.

Co-ordinates
Lat: 52:13:08N (52.219)
Lon: 2:12:57W (-2.2159)

Is my allotment facing SW or SSW?

213.9 degrees east of north.[1] That makes it almost exactly halfway
between SW and SSW - doesn't it?

[1] http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/AltAz.html

--
Matt B

Simon Mason said:

"Tom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Completely off topic question for anyone on here who has navigation
skills.

At 2.30 this afternoon, the sun was shining directly in line with the path
down the middle of my allotment.

Co-ordinates
Lat: 52:13:08N (52.219)
Lon: 2:12:57W (-2.2159)

The local noon occurs approx 8.86 minutes after UTC noon

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is my allotment facing SW or SSW?

There is a bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale resting on the outcome.

At noon 1200 UTC, the Sun will be directly South

At noon local time the Sun will be directly south, so approx Noon 12:09 UTC

Quoted message said:

and at 1800 UTC it will be directly West.

52 degrees north is north of the tropic of cancer, so the sun can never
be directly west of the OP.

Quoted message said:

At 1500 UTC it will be directly South West and SSW will occur at 1330, so at
1430 it is nearer SW.

Ditto, at 1509 UTC the sun will be somewhat south of southwest, But I am
not guessing at what time it will be SW or SSW.

In answer to the original OP, stick a post in the ground, and mark the
angle of the shadow at 12:09, then measure the angle between the shadow
and the allotment path.

Martin.

Following on from Tom's message. . .

Quoted message said:

Completely off topic question for anyone on here who has navigation skills.

At 2.30 this afternoon, the sun was shining directly in line with the path
down the middle of my allotment.

Co-ordinates
Lat: 52:13:08N (52.219)
Lon: 2:12:57W (-2.2159)

Is my allotment facing SW or SSW?

NNE

There's a pretty Sun Position Calculator at
<http://www.udel.edu/igert/pvcdrom/SUNLIGHT/SUNCALC.HTM>

(One of many.)

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the icecream business was liquidated
[email hidden]
www.eminent.demon.co.uk - Lots for cyclists

"Martin Dann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason said:

"Tom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Completely off topic question for anyone on here who has navigation
skills.

At 2.30 this afternoon, the sun was shining directly in line with the
path down the middle of my allotment.

Co-ordinates
Lat: 52:13:08N (52.219)
Lon: 2:12:57W (-2.2159)

The local noon occurs approx 8.86 minutes after UTC noon

From Wiki:

Solar noon is when the sun appears the highest in the sky (nearest zenith),
compared to its positions during the rest of the day. It occurs when the Sun
is transitting the celestial meridian. This is also the origin of the terms
ante meridiem and post meridiem as noted above. At solar noon, the sun is
due south in the Northern Hemisphere, and due north in the Southern
Hemisphere. (Actually, this is not strictly true, but the *maximum
difference* between noon and sun due-south is a mere 16 seconds of time at
45 degrees North latitude, and 3 minutes at 85oN.)

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

Following on from Martin Dann's message. . .

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason said:

"Tom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Completely off topic question for anyone on here who has navigation
skills.

At 2.30 this afternoon, the sun was shining directly in line with the path
down the middle of my allotment.

Co-ordinates
Lat: 52:13:08N (52.219)
Lon: 2:12:57W (-2.2159)

The local noon occurs approx 8.86 minutes after UTC noon

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is my allotment facing SW or SSW?

There is a bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale resting on the outcome.

At noon 1200 UTC, the Sun will be directly South

At noon local time the Sun will be directly south, so approx Noon 12:09 UTC

Quoted message said:

and at 1800 UTC it will be directly West.

52 degrees north is north of the tropic of cancer, so the sun can never
be directly west of the OP.

Quoted message said:

At 1500 UTC it will be directly South West and SSW will occur at 1330, so at
1430 it is nearer SW.

Ditto, at 1509 UTC the sun will be somewhat south of southwest, But I am
not guessing at what time it will be SW or SSW.

In answer to the original OP, stick a post in the ground, and mark the
angle of the shadow at 12:09, then measure the angle between the shadow
and the allotment path.

Martin.

Simon and Martin are both providing inaccurate information.
* Local noon may be a few minutes later than Greenwich Noon but then the
sun isn't always due south at noon. Look up Equation of Time.

* There is nothing stopping the sun setting due west on some days of the
year.

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the deckchair business folded
[email hidden]
2 Tees Close, Witham, Essex.
Gravity beer in Essex <http://www.eminent.demon.co.uk>

"Martin Dann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:W1%Ch.16133$mn2.7796@newsfe7->

Quoted message said:

52 degrees north is north of the tropic of cancer, so the sun can never be
directly west of the OP.

Hmm, what happens on the longest day of the year?
Does the Sun stop moving north after 1800 (actually 1900 since it will be
BST then)?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A684399
"The sun rises in the east and set sets in the west. At midday it is due
south if you are in the northern hemisphere or due north if you are in the
southern hemisphere. At 6am, it is due east, and at 6pm it is due west, even
if it dark at these times of day. It moves between these points at a
constant speed."

Of course it can be due west at 52N.

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

"Peter Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

Quoted message said:

Simon and Martin are both providing inaccurate information.
* Local noon may be a few minutes later than Greenwich Noon but then the
sun isn't always due south at noon. Look up Equation of Time.

We are talking about a (roughly) 30 seconds difference at his latitude which
will not put him into a different compass point!

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

Tom said:

Buck said:

On 2007-02-21 15:58:20 +0000, "Tom" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Is my allotment facing SW or SSW?

SSW

Woo Yay

I win :-)

Is this a guess Buck or did you work it out? (and if so, how?)

Tom

At just after 15:00 hrs it would be SW so at 14:30 depending on how you
judge such things
it would still be SSW although it is really between the two. Splitting
360 minutes into a handful
of general directions is haphazard at best, when sailing it can be used
as a rough guide but
using a compass is the way to go, either way it is unlikely that your
allotment will go off course
mid Atlantic.

I generally go with SSW staying SSW until it becomes SW and so on...
--
Three wheels good, two wheels ok

www.catrike.co.uk

Simon Mason said:

"Peter Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

Quoted message said:

Simon and Martin are both providing inaccurate information.
* Local noon may be a few minutes later than Greenwich Noon but then the
sun isn't always due south at noon. Look up Equation of Time.

We are talking about a (roughly) 30 seconds difference at his latitude which
will not put him into a different compass point!

It may be 30s for the latitude, but nine minutes for the longitude.
However as Peter pointed out the eliptical orbit of the earth alters the
time between mean noon and when the sun is due south by up to 16 min.

Martin.

Tom said:

Completely off topic question for anyone on here who has navigation skills.

At 2.30 this afternoon, the sun was shining directly in line with the path
down the middle of my allotment.

Co-ordinates
Lat: 52:13:08N (52.219)
Lon: 2:12:57W (-2.2159)

Is my allotment facing SW or SSW?

There is a bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale resting on the outcome.

My gizmo says Alt 21.5 Az 213.9
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Tom wrote on 21/02/2007 15:58 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Completely off topic question for anyone on here who has navigation skills.

At 2.30 this afternoon, the sun was shining directly in line with the path
down the middle of my allotment.

Co-ordinates
Lat: 52:13:08N (52.219)
Lon: 2:12:57W (-2.2159)

Is my allotment facing SW or SSW?

There is a bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale resting on the outcome.

Thanks

Tom

At 14:30 the sun is at 213.9 azimuth. SW is at 225 and SSW is at 202.5
so the answer is neither but slightly in favour of SSW.

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Tony Raven said:

At 14:30 the sun is at 213.9 azimuth. SW is at 225 and SSW is at
202.5 so the answer is neither but slightly in favour of SSW.

Well that's good enought for me.

Thanks to everyone who has posted. Much appreciated.

Tom
--
Return address is dead. Real address is at
http://www.happy-penguin.info/address.jpg

On 21 Feb,

Simon Mason said:

"Peter Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

Quoted message said:

Simon and Martin are both providing inaccurate information.
* Local noon may be a few minutes later than Greenwich Noon but then the
sun isn't always due south at noon. Look up Equation of Time.

We are talking about a (roughly) 30 seconds difference at his latitude
which will not put him into a different compass point!

The equation of time (difference between astronomic noon, when the sun is
south/north, and mean time noon, is up to approximately plus or minus 15
minutes, It is zero twice a year. The maxima and minima are quite close
together, December and February IIRC.

Plus or minus 15 minutes equates to 7.5 degrees of longtitude.

--
BD
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