OT - photo help

Fran said:

Quoted message said:

The situation:

It's indoors; fluorescent lighting; probably no natural light
due to mostly boarded up windows; whitish walls and ceiling;
dark floor; flash will be turned OFF.
The problem:
Do I leave it on auto, or do I select a different white
balance or exposure, or - what?

Any ideas?

Indoors without a flash then you will need A) a tripod or B) something to
sit your camera on that is solid/steady and the camera won't fall
over.Before you start taking pictures try a couple of test pics changing the
white balance and see which one looks best. Use auto and the timer on the
camera, my Fuji has two settings 2 sec and 10 sec, use the 2 sec if you have
it and take the picture letting the camera be till the shot is taken. Doing
it this way you reduce the chance of shake as you aren't touching the
camera.

HTH.

--

Don`t Worry, Be Happy

Sandy
--

E-Mail:- [email hidden]
Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk
Looking for a webhost? Try http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=2966019

Fran said:

Nothing at all to do with walking, but since a lot of you are
Photographers with a capital P I thought I'd give it a go
here:

Help! I've been asked to take some photos over the weekend
(on Sunday) and I'm not sure which settings I should hfr.
It's a digital camera; Fuji 2800Z, BTW.

The situation:
It's indoors; fluorescent lighting; probably no natural light
due to mostly boarded up windows; whitish walls and ceiling;
dark floor; flash will be turned OFF.

Sounds like the meeting place for a Mafia get together. Maybe the police
spotlights will help :-)

Rory

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's a digital camera; Fuji 2800Z, BTW.

The situation:
It's indoors; fluorescent lighting; probably no natural light
due to mostly boarded up windows; whitish walls and ceiling;
dark floor; flash will be turned OFF.

Sounds like the meeting place for a Mafia get together. Maybe the police
spotlights will help :-)

Not quite - it's the British Indoor Barebow Target Archery
Championships. My daughter Catharine is competing, as indeed
am I. I should point out, however, that I confidently expect
to be awarded the wooden spoon, as I've only been doing it for
a couple of months. My club's webmaster has asked for photos
for the website. These:
http://gallery110671.fotopic.net/c336181.html
and these:
http://gallery110671.fotopic.net/c325580.html
were taken recently in the same hall as the championships are
taking place, and with the same camera. All photos were
tweaked in PSP8 for colour balance and subsequently lightened.
--
I try to be a good example to my children, but they just see
me as a dire warning.

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Fran said:

Quoted message said:

The situation:

It's indoors; fluorescent lighting; probably no natural light
due to mostly boarded up windows; whitish walls and ceiling;
dark floor; flash will be turned OFF.
The problem:
Do I leave it on auto, or do I select a different white
balance or exposure, or - what?

Any ideas?

Indoors without a flash then you will need A) a tripod or B) something to
sit your camera on that is solid/steady and the camera won't fall
over.

I've been intending to get a tripod for ages so I can get
decent(ish) photos of the whole family, including me, to send
to distant wealthy relatives etc. Tomorrow may well be the
time I go shopping :-)

Quoted message said:

Before you start taking pictures try a couple of test pics changing the
white balance and see which one looks best. Use auto and the timer on the
camera, my Fuji has two settings 2 sec and 10 sec, use the 2 sec if you have
it and take the picture letting the camera be till the shot is taken. Doing
it this way you reduce the chance of shake as you aren't touching the
camera.

OK, thanks. I don't remember seeing more than just the one
timer setting, so I'll probably just fire off shots as and
when they occur. Not least because if I want to capture
someone at full draw they won't hold onto their bow for any
length of time. A second or so can be quite enough before the
arm starts to shake - and then the arrow fails to fly anything
like straight.
--
I try to be a good example to my children, but they just see
me as a dire warning.

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Fran said:

It's a digital camera; Fuji 2800Z, BTW.

The situation:
It's indoors; fluorescent lighting; probably no natural light
due to mostly boarded up windows; whitish walls and ceiling;
dark floor; flash will be turned OFF.
The problem:
Do I leave it on auto, or do I select a different white
balance or exposure, or - what?

Use flash or accept that the colours will look extremely odd. Take a tripod
as well.

I'm not keen on using flash as it's an indoor archery shoot
where they'll be people who take it very *very* seriously
indeed. They might not appreciate camera flashes going off
when they're trying to concentrate. I shall, however, acquire
a tripod. I shall also hope I'm not the only one who's been
asked to take photos...
--
I try to be a good example to my children, but they just see
me as a dire warning.

I noticed that Message-ID:
<[email hidden]> from Fran contained the
following:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Use flash or accept that the colours will look extremely odd. Take a tripod
as well.

I'm not keen on using flash as it's an indoor archery shoot
where they'll be people who take it very *very* seriously
indeed. They might not appreciate camera flashes going off
when they're trying to concentrate. I shall, however, acquire
a tripod.

It's stop camera shake but won't do anything to stop the subject moving.
If there is enough light to shoot arrows maybe you will be OK. Still
tripods are useful to have.

Not sure if your white balance will cope with fluorescent light - they
add a green cast. When I used to shoot transparency film, you could get
a magenta filter to correct most of the cast, but it was never 100%
reliable because different tubes give different casts (even the
'daylight' tubes are not really..umm..daylight. And filters cut down
the light. You'll ore than likely end up correcting the cast digitally.

Simplest thing would be to do some test shots before the day if you can
get access.

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Simplest thing would be to do some test shots before the day if you can
get access.

Thanks. I'll try to get there ultra-early and play with the
various settings. I can see me firing off loads of 'auto'
shots and then playing with them at home afterwards. I
*really* hope there are other people there with cameras,
because I don't have the expertise or the equipment to be the
'official' club photographer.
--
I try to be a good example to my children, but they just see
me as a dire warning.

I noticed that Message-ID:
<[email hidden]> from Fran contained the
following:

Quoted message said:

Thanks. I'll try to get there ultra-early and play with the
various settings. I can see me firing off loads of 'auto'
shots and then playing with them at home afterwards. I
*really* hope there are other people there with cameras,
because I don't have the expertise or the equipment to be the
'official' club photographer.

Ah well the tripod will make you look official. Besides it's great
being official, you get the best angles. Remember you can always crop,
but you can't add stuff in. However, avoid your shots being too much
'over there'. Biggest problem about shooting archers I would have
thought is that, unless you are allowed into the firing zone, all shots
will be hard profiles, which isn't too flattering. And of course the
lighting is pot luck.

The other problem you will have is back grounds. I'd normally be trying
to get them out of focus and it will help if you keep the camera on a
medium telephoto. That's the best focal length for portraiture anyway.

Be on the lookout for interesting angles, either high or low, and
interesting compositions. If you've plenty of memory, shot it anyway,
it's not costing anything.

Bloody well go for it and stop being a wuss. <g>

Incidentally, as a complete aside, I was looking at some pics I took in
Greece and found one that was not sharp. I was thinking about what Paul
said. However, though this picture is definitely soft, it gives it a
beautiful impressionistic feel. I love it and have it as my desktop.

See what you think.
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/zak/zak400/olive_lane400.jpg
Fullsize
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/zak/olive_lane.jpg

There are some more snaps here
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/dev/listfilesindir.php
and type in zak400 to see 400 pixel wide versions (no critique needed
Paul - I know they are not the best in the world and they have been
nowhere near Photoshop)

If for any reason you want a full size versions, just press the go
button without typing anything. Could take a while on dial up though.

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

I noticed that Message-ID:
<[email hidden]> from Fran contained the
following:

Quoted message said:

Thanks. I'll try to get there ultra-early and play with the
various settings. I can see me firing off loads of 'auto'
shots and then playing with them at home afterwards. I
*really* hope there are other people there with cameras,
because I don't have the expertise or the equipment to be the
'official' club photographer.

Ah well the tripod will make you look official. Besides it's great
being official, you get the best angles. Remember you can always crop,
but you can't add stuff in. However, avoid your shots being too much
'over there'. Biggest problem about shooting archers I would have
thought is that, unless you are allowed into the firing zone, all shots
will be hard profiles, which isn't too flattering. And of course the
lighting is pot luck.

The other problem you will have is back grounds. I'd normally be trying
to get them out of focus and it will help if you keep the camera on a
medium telephoto. That's the best focal length for portraiture anyway.

Be on the lookout for interesting angles, either high or low, and
interesting compositions. If you've plenty of memory, shot it anyway,
it's not costing anything.

Bloody well go for it and stop being a wuss. <g>

Incidentally, as a complete aside, I was looking at some pics I took in
Greece and found one that was not sharp. I was thinking about what Paul
said. However, though this picture is definitely soft, it gives it a
beautiful impressionistic feel. I love it and have it as my desktop.

See what you think.
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/zak/zak400/olive_lane400.jpg
Fullsize
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/zak/olive_lane.jpg

There are some more snaps here
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/dev/listfilesindir.php
and type in zak400 to see 400 pixel wide versions (no critique needed
Paul - I know they are not the best in the world and they have been
nowhere near Photoshop)

If for any reason you want a full size versions, just press the go
button without typing anything. Could take a while on dial up though.

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

I noticed that Message-ID:
<[email hidden]> from Fran contained the
following:

Quoted message said:

Thanks. I'll try to get there ultra-early and play with the
various settings. I can see me firing off loads of 'auto'
shots and then playing with them at home afterwards. I
*really* hope there are other people there with cameras,
because I don't have the expertise or the equipment to be the
'official' club photographer.

Ah well the tripod will make you look official.

Hmm. I don't know about that. I'm more likely to look like a
self-important eejit.

Quoted message said:

Biggest problem about shooting archers I would have
thought is that, unless you are allowed into the firing zone, all shots
will be hard profiles, which isn't too flattering. And of course the
lighting is pot luck.

I can only step in front of the archers when they've not got
arrows in their hands or bows, and they're going to be stood
in a single straight line so no, it's not going to be easy.
We may have to try some 'put up job' shots and hope no one
notices the absence of arrows because they're totally
incompatible with someone standing anywhere in front (even to
the side) of them.

Quoted message said:

The other problem you will have is back grounds.

Plain white walls mostly. The main problem is the truly
appalling lighting. The windows have been boarded up
externally because of vandalism, and although the boards are
easily removable it's not guaranteed to have been done,
especially if there's any possibility of sunlight (ha!)
streaming in through them.

Quoted message said:

I'd normally be trying
to get them out of focus and it will help if you keep the camera on a
medium telephoto. That's the best focal length for portraiture anyway.

I don't think my camera does that...

Quoted message said:

Be on the lookout for interesting angles, either high or low, and
interesting compositions. If you've plenty of memory, shot it anyway,
it's not costing anything.

Bloody well go for it and stop being a wuss. <g>

<g> I'll do me best :-)

Quoted message said:

Incidentally, as a complete aside, I was looking at some pics I took in
Greece and found one that was not sharp. I was thinking about what Paul
said. However, though this picture is definitely soft, it gives it a
beautiful impressionistic feel. I love it and have it as my desktop.

See what you think.
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/zak/zak400/olive_lane400.jpg

I like that - very atmospheric.

Quoted message said:

There are some more snaps here
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/dev/listfilesindir.php
and type in zak400

Coo! I want to go for a swim in that bay (the second photo
from the top) and I love the sun's rays coming from behind the
cloud. What are the red spiky things, oleander(sp)? And that
wonderful wreck, and the sunrise/sunset (whichever it is) -
will you take me with you next time you go, please?
--
I try to be a good example to my children, but they just see
me as a dire warning.

I noticed that Message-ID:
<[email hidden]> from Fran contained the
following:

Quoted message said:

I can only step in front of the archers when they've not got
arrows in their hands or bows, and they're going to be stood
in a single straight line so no, it's not going to be easy.
We may have to try some 'put up job' shots and hope no one
notices the absence of arrows because they're totally
incompatible with someone standing anywhere in front (even to
the side) of them.

Hmm, that's not going to be easy then.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The other problem you will have is back grounds.

Plain white walls mostly. The main problem is the truly
appalling lighting. The windows have been boarded up
externally because of vandalism, and although the boards are
easily removable it's not guaranteed to have been done,
especially if there's any possibility of sunlight (ha!)
streaming in through them.

Better off without it because whatever re balancing you have to do to
correct the fluorescent would adversely affect the daylight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd normally be trying
to get them out of focus and it will help if you keep the camera on a
medium telephoto. That's the best focal length for portraiture anyway.

I don't think my camera does that...

Does it have a zoom lens?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Be on the lookout for interesting angles, either high or low, and
interesting compositions. If you've plenty of memory, shot it anyway,
it's not costing anything.

Bloody well go for it and stop being a wuss. <g>

<g> I'll do me best :-)

Good. :-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Incidentally, as a complete aside, I was looking at some pics I took in
Greece and found one that was not sharp. I was thinking about what Paul
said. However, though this picture is definitely soft, it gives it a
beautiful impressionistic feel. I love it and have it as my desktop.

See what you think.
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/zak/zak400/olive_lane400.jpg

I like that - very atmospheric.

Quoted message said:

There are some more snaps here
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/dev/listfilesindir.php
and type in zak400

Coo! I want to go for a swim in that bay (the second photo
from the top) and I love the sun's rays coming from behind the
cloud. What are the red spiky things, oleander(sp)? And that
wonderful wreck, and the sunrise/sunset (whichever it is) -

I went snorkeling in the shipwreck bay which is similar. The rays shot
is the desktop of my lappy - to remind me of sunshine when I am working.
Not sure what the red spiky things were, I just liked the plant. Oh and
taking inspiration from Paul, I got up early to catch a sunrise. :-)

Quoted message said:

will you take me with you next time you go, please?

I'm afraid that in my depleted financial state, that could be some
time...
--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

Fran said:

Nothing at all to do with walking, but since a lot of you are
Photographers with a capital P I thought I'd give it a go
here:

Help! I've been asked to take some photos over the weekend
(on Sunday) and I'm not sure which settings I should hfr.
It's a digital camera; Fuji 2800Z, BTW.

The situation:
It's indoors; fluorescent lighting; probably no natural light
due to mostly boarded up windows; whitish walls and ceiling;
dark floor; flash will be turned OFF.
The problem:
Do I leave it on auto, or do I select a different white
balance or exposure, or - what?

Any ideas?

Kates camera is also a Fuji 2800Z, so I can say with some confidence:

1) it has two white balance settings for flourescent lighting so try
them first. Post-processing with Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro will get
rid of any remaining colour cast.

2) The camera has a sensitivity equivalent to 100ASA film, which is to
say that it is not too good at low-light situations. A tripod is a good
idea, failing that a bean-bag or just lean up against a wall.

Action shots are right out - you won't be able to stop action without a
flash, unless the organisers will let you have half-an-hour for posed
shots. During the competition itself I would agree that you do not want
to use flash - it would be very distracting.

Archery, like rifles (my sport at University) is difficult to photograph
and make interesting, because there is no action - its not a spectator
sport. Close-ups of concentrating archers or of targets full of arrows,
wide shots of a line of archers or targets, character studies of
spectators or judges, studies of bows, arrows etc. lying ready for use -
all worth a try. At least a standing archer looks impressive: a prone
target rifle shooter is about the least interesting subject you can find.

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Archery, like rifles (my sport at University) is difficult to photograph
and make interesting, because there is no action - its not a spectator
sport.

Hello Alan, and thanks. This is probably as good a time as
any to say that I went, I saw and I - well, 'conquered' is
probably too strong a word. Anyway, FWIW, the results in all
their gory are here:
http://gallery110671.fotopic.net/c354012.html
They've had the appalling colour cast removed and they've been
lightened, but they could still do with some TLC by someone
who knows what they're doing. Thanks for all your help folks;
I used a tripod, and I also took some photos with someone
else's camera that he'd set up ready for me to press the
button at the appropriate moment. So there I was, looking
terribly professional standing guard over two digital cameras
on two tripods... the results belie the impression though :-(
--
I try to be a good example to my children, but they just see
me as a dire warning.

Fran said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Archery, like rifles (my sport at University) is difficult to
photograph and make interesting, because there is no action - its
not a spectator sport.

Hello Alan, and thanks. This is probably as good a time as
any to say that I went, I saw and I - well, 'conquered' is
probably too strong a word. Anyway, FWIW, the results in all
their gory are here:
http://gallery110671.fotopic.net/c354012.html

It looks like you have made the best of a difficult situation, they have
come out very well. Nothing to be ashamed of there.

--

Don`t Worry, Be Happy

Sandy
--

E-Mail:- [email hidden]
Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk
Looking for a webhost? Try http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=2966019

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://gallery110671.fotopic.net/c354012.html

It looks like you have made the best of a difficult situation, they have
come out very well. Nothing to be ashamed of there.

Thanks. I suppose I really ought to make the effort to learn
more about what all the various settings on my camera do, but
TBH most of what I snap at is outdoors and therefore not too
problematic. The tripod was a tremendous help though. Hmmm.
just think - next time I'm out with Paul we can have a contest
to see who faffs around the most setting up a tripod for a
relatively simple shot... ;-)
--
I try to be a good example to my children, but they just see
me as a dire warning.

Fran said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://gallery110671.fotopic.net/c354012.html

It looks like you have made the best of a difficult situation, they
have come out very well. Nothing to be ashamed of there.

Thanks. I suppose I really ought to make the effort to learn
more about what all the various settings on my camera do, but
TBH most of what I snap at is outdoors and therefore not too
problematic.

Most people are "snappers" some are "snapper/photographers" others are true
"photographers". You, I would say, come into the "snappers" catagory, i.e.
point and shoot. I take a little more time to set the camera and shot, I get
that from my dad who was a "photographer", so come into the
"snapper/photographer" catagory. Paul is a true photographer, he takes his
time over every shot and gets better pictures rather than good snaps.

Quoted message said:

The tripod was a tremendous help though. Hmmm.
just think - next time I'm out with Paul we can have a contest
to see who faffs around the most setting up a tripod for a
relatively simple shot... ;-)

I use a mini tripod that I carry in my pocket, between that and my hat on a
rock, they allow me to take shots in lower light coditions so it can be
quite handy. You and Paul won't be doing too many "long" walks then 🙂

--

Don`t Worry, Be Happy

Sandy
--

E-Mail:- [email hidden]
Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk
Looking for a webhost? Try http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=2966019

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Most people are "snappers" some are "snapper/photographers" others are true
"photographers". You, I would say, come into the "snappers" catagory, i.e.
point and shoot.

Yep, that's me. Quite often the things I want to take photos
of are my own children, and if I try to set up a shot
'properly' they get bored and fidget. It has to be
spontaneous for me to be able to get any halfway decent shots
of them. Also, for outdoor photos my camera is brilliant and
does all I want or need it to. The problems come indoors,
because I can either leave it on auto for everything or get
bogged down in changing settings - and that's where I start
losing the will to live.

Quoted message said:

I take a little more time to set the camera and shot, I get
that from my dad who was a "photographer", so come into the
"snapper/photographer" catagory. Paul is a true photographer, he takes his
time over every shot and gets better pictures rather than good snaps.

Paul's photos are very good, and his knowledge and experience
are evident in his work. Of course, photography is more than
just a hobby with him, so he's put more into learning all he
can about the subject - and AFAICS it's paid off in terms of
picture quality.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The tripod was a tremendous help though. Hmmm.
just think - next time I'm out with Paul we can have a contest
to see who faffs around the most setting up a tripod for a
relatively simple shot... ;-)

I use a mini tripod that I carry in my pocket, between that and my hat on a
rock, they allow me to take shots in lower light coditions so it can be
quite handy. You and Paul won't be doing too many "long" walks then 🙂

<G> I can't seriously imagine wanting to take the tripod out
with me though - it's too darned heavy and cumbersome[1] for a
start, plus I'd have to take my bag off every time I wanted to
take it out to take a photo - and to be honest I really can't
be bothered.

[1] My daypack is a 21L hip pack. It has its faults - it's
not in any way waterproof and my lower back can get
uncomfortably warm and sweaty[1a]; however it means there's no
weight on my shoulders and if I've got my youngest with me and
she gets tired (she's 4) I can hoist her up and she can use
the hip pack as a 'seat' for a short while.

[1a] If anyone's got any recommendations for an alternative
hip pack that doesn't result in hot, sweaty patches - and is
more waterproof... please tell me!
--
I try to be a good example to my children, but they just see
me as a dire warning.

Fran said:

They've had the appalling colour cast removed and they've been
lightened, but they could still do with some TLC by someone
who knows what they're doing.

Fran, on the colour cast: did you use a manual white balance setting, or
leave it on auto?

Things I would try:

Get above and behind the shooter and use portrait framing to get just
archer and target in the frame. Take the photo from a distance using
telephoto settings to get perspective compression and as much in focus
as possible, or use a narrow aperture for good depth of field. Several
of your shots do this already, but from ground level. This probably
involve a lot of setting up, unless there is a stage or something you
can stand on.

Shoot the photo from in front, so as to get the archers facial
expression. Difficult to reconcile with range safety rules.
Possibilities: posed shot before or after competition; set up camera on
tripod and use a remote release (need to set up a wide shot to be sure
to get the subject in, then crop later); set up an angled mirror in
front and to one side of the firing point (or whatever its called in
archery) and zoom in on the reflection (caveat - never tried it, but it
should work, but the mirror may need to be large and may end up being
distracting)

Closup of target with arrows arriving. What range are they shooting at?
Looks like 20 - 25 yards to me... small-bore pistol or rifle range.

What distinguishes Barebow from any other type of archery?

It looks as though it was quite crowded, not leaving much room for you
to get set up or take photos - the set gives a good feel for what went
on, though. Who won?

Alan Dicey said:

Things I would try:

Get above and behind the shooter and use portrait framing to get just
archer and target in the frame. Take the photo from a distance using
telephoto settings to get perspective compression and as much in focus
as possible, or use a narrow aperture for good depth of field. Several
of your shots do this already, but from ground level. This probably
involve a lot of setting up, unless there is a stage or something you
can stand on.

Shoot the photo from in front, so as to get the archers facial
expression. Difficult to reconcile with range safety rules.
Possibilities: posed shot before or after competition; set up camera on
tripod and use a remote release (need to set up a wide shot to be sure
to get the subject in, then crop later); set up an angled mirror in
front and to one side of the firing point (or whatever its called in
archery) and zoom in on the reflection (caveat - never tried it, but it
should work, but the mirror may need to be large and may end up being
distracting)

Closup of target with arrows arriving. What range are they shooting at?
Looks like 20 - 25 yards to me... small-bore pistol or rifle range.

Reading this over again, I think I might have come on a bit strong and
critical: - I was more-or-less thinking out loud on the keyboard, if you
see what I mean, giving some suggestions for future reference. Your
pictures are great, and I doubt if I could do as well!