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OT - parenting (home schooling)

Started by Julia Altshuler · · Last activity · 106 posts · 2,435 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
16 June 2005
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30 June 2005
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Julia Altshuler
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  1. I'd like to add something to the homeschooling or not debate that I
    don't think has been mentioned yet.

    If I were doing a study on the all-over effectiveness of homeschooling
    versus public schooling (add private schooling, charter schools,
    religious schools in there as well) for a research article on the
    subject, I'd define effectiveness (possibly in terms of acceptance to
    universities or ability to earn a living or scores on an exam or a
    psychological measure of happiness or some such). Then I'd gather up
    examples of students who had been homeschooled and students who had gone
    to public schools (randomly selected examples) and compare how they
    rated against my measure of effectiveness. When that data was in, I'd
    consider variables since the children of good readers are usually good
    readers however they're educated, and those with learning disabilities
    often have learning disabilities as well, again, regardless of schooling.

    And all that would be more or less useless since none of that is the
    question that parents face.

    Parents (presumably) are trying to figure out what's best for their own
    kids. They look at the schools that are available in their own area,
    not wild averages of what the schools are like all over the country.
    They consider their own effectiveness for their own children. They
    consider what the parents (usually the mother) might else be doing with
    their time and how much she'd like homeschooling. They consider their
    strengths and weaknesses. They consider their own children as
    individuals and what would be best for them.

    --Lia

  2. Julia Altshuler said:


    Parents (presumably) are trying to figure out what's best for their own
    kids. They look at the schools that are available in their own area,
    not wild averages of what the schools are like all over the country.
    They consider their own effectiveness for their own children. They
    consider what the parents (usually the mother) might else be doing with
    their time and how much she'd like homeschooling. They consider their
    strengths and weaknesses. They consider their own children as
    individuals and what would be best for them.

    You sound like someone with the point of view that school
    administrators are all bumbling idiots who consider nothing. I think
    any school administrator has at their disposal far more resources than
    any individual homemaker with a spare kitchen table. Even in pioneer
    days it was well recognized that a one room school house was far more
    desirable for imparting an education than the isolation of home
    schooling. Certain individuals choose home schooling to satify an
    inflated ego at the expense of their child not realizing full
    potential. Anyone in modern America who chooses home schooling is
    truly mentally ill... they choose home schooling strictly to appease
    some unhealhty urge for self-fulfillment lacking in their bored little
    lives due to their own dsfunctional childhood... shades of Bette
    Davis... hush, hush sweet ranee.

    Sheldon

  3. Julia Altshuler said:

    When that data was in, I'd
    consider variables since the children of good readers are usually good
    readers however they're educated, and those with learning disabilities
    often have learning disabilities as well, again, regardless of schooling.

    You're right. Disabilities often intensify in subsequent generations.
    I'm not a scientist, so I can't give you a good explanation - I can
    only share my obserbation.

  4. sf said:

    obserbation.

    <sigh>

  5. Sheldon said:

    You sound like someone with the point of view that school
    administrators are all bumbling idiots who consider nothing. I think
    any school administrator has at their disposal far more resources than
    any individual homemaker with a spare kitchen table. Even in pioneer
    days it was well recognized that a one room school house was far more
    desirable for imparting an education than the isolation of home
    schooling. Certain individuals choose home schooling to satify an
    inflated ego at the expense of their child not realizing full
    potential. Anyone in modern America who chooses home schooling is
    truly mentally ill... they choose home schooling strictly to appease
    some unhealhty urge for self-fulfillment lacking in their bored little
    lives due to their own dsfunctional childhood... shades of Bette
    Davis... hush, hush sweet ranee.

    Sheldon

    Is that why all the friends I know who homeschool, their children test
    higher than their regular schooled counterparts?

  6. Denise~* said:

    Is that why all the friends I know who homeschool, their children test
    higher than their regular schooled counterparts?

    You're feeding the troll, Denise <G>

    --
    The Doc says my brain waves closely match those of a crazed ferret.
    At least now I have an excuse.

  7. sf said:
    sf said:

    obserbation.

    <sigh>

    What's to sigh about, are you feeling insecure/unloved... couldn't be a
    better example of a typo... look at your keyvoard. Sheesh, talk about
    drama queens.

    Sheldon

  8. Sheldon said:
    sf said:
    sf said:

    obserbation.

    <sigh>

    What's to sigh about, are you feeling insecure/unloved... couldn't be a
    better example of a typo... look at your keyvoard. Sheesh, talk about
    drama queens.


    Says the one who loves to poke fun at typos.
    I found it before you did and you're pouting.

  9. sf said:
    sf said:

    obserbation.

    <sigh>

    *giggle* I thought it was cute.

    Carol

    --
    CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY
    United States:
    http://www.stopthehunger.com/
    International:
    http://www.thehungersite.com/

  10. Sheldon said:


    sf said:
    sf said:

    obserbation.


    <sigh>

    What's to sigh about, are you feeling insecure/unloved... couldn't be a
    better example of a typo... look at your keyvoard. Sheesh, talk about
    drama queens.

    Actually, it was Freudian slip about (shhhh) MASturbation. Yer slippin'
    Shelly.
    blacksalt
    who is who she is in spite of public school, not because of public
    school, and who left that pit of commercialism, bad grammar, racial
    violence, and jock-worship just as soon as it was legal, and who intends
    to let junior decide between public school and homeschooling.
    OBFood: EVOO, lemon juice and Penzey's greek seasoning, over romaine,
    onion, Italian parsley....yum.

  11. Damsel said:
    sf said:
    sf said:

    obserbation.

    <sigh>

    *giggle* I thought it was cute.

    You're in touch with *my* inner child?

    🙂

  12. sf said:
    Damsel said:
    sf said:

    On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:52:47 -0700, sf wrote:

    > obserbation.

    <sigh>

    *giggle* I thought it was cute.

    You're in touch with *my* inner child?

    🙂

    Now you're starting to frighten me. 😉

    Carol

    --
    CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY
    United States:
    http://www.stopthehunger.com/
    International:
    http://www.thehungersite.com/

  13. Damsel said:
    sf said:


    You're in touch with *my* inner child?

    Now you're starting to frighten me. 😉


    Take a deep breath and exhale slowly.... I have a paper bag if you
    need one.

    HOWEVER you have to promise me you'll breathe into it and not put it
    over your head.

    LOL
    <thinking of Damsel playing the "unknown comic">

  14. sf said:
    Damsel said:
    sf said:


    You're in touch with *my* inner child?

    Now you're starting to frighten me. 😉


    Take a deep breath and exhale slowly.... I have a paper bag if you
    need one.

    HOWEVER you have to promise me you'll breathe into it and not put it
    over your head.

    LOL
    <thinking of Damsel playing the "unknown comic">

    Damn! I wanted to play the "unknown inner child!"

    Carol

    --
    Coming at you live, from beautiful Lake Woebegon

  15. Denise~* said:

    Is that why all the friends I know who homeschool, their children test
    higher than their regular schooled counterparts?

    The trouble here is that it is easy to jump to the conclusion that
    because children who are homeschooled test higher than those who attend
    public schools, homeschooling would be better for those in public
    schools. That's not necessarily the case because the whole concept of
    counterparts is suspect.

    Imagine a situation where highly educated parents are terrible teachers.
    They're impatient with children. They're bored with the sort of slow
    little-by-little progress that children at the elementary level make.
    They agree that children benefit from learning to do mental arithmatic
    but hate having to drill and practice with their kids. They hate
    practice and drill on anything. They think sarcasm is a sign of
    intelligence and use it liberally on their children. Let's say that
    these hypothetical parents are deluded about their children's abilities
    and think their own children are brilliant enough to be left alone to
    study and learn on their own when really the children are reading at the
    same level and getting great vocabularies but little else because
    they're not encouraged or taught to do anything that they don't already
    know how to do.

    Now let's say that there's a family down the road where the parents are
    patient, in tune with children, interested in childhood education in
    general and their own children's education in particular. Let's say
    these parents homeschool their children, and their children are doing
    fabulously well on every measure including standardized testing.

    To the outsider, these families are counterparts. They have similar
    incomes and children the same age and parents at the same level of
    education themselves. But it would be a huge mistake if the first
    family decided to homeschool because their neighbor's kids were doing so
    well. The first family's kids belong in public school because the
    teachers there are likely to be better than the parents. Or maybe not.
    The teachers there could be worse. It all depends on the particulars
    of the school, the teachers, the curriculum, the test, the students and
    the parents.

    --Lia

  16. Sheldon said:

    Anyone in modern America who chooses home schooling is
    truly mentally ill...

    Speaking of mentally ill...

  17. Nick,

    Throughout history more people have been home-schooled than public schooled.
    I have been given the freedom to educate my children in this country. I am
    exercising my freedom
    to give my children the best education I can provide. It means that I am
    free to use the local public school as
    a resource. It means I can enroll my children in the local college. I can
    apprentice them to people and
    situations periodically for speciality training.
    The goal in raising a fine human being, a model citizen and allround
    blalnced person is to give them all the opportunities
    I can before they leave the nest.
    Believe me, teaching the core subjects of math, science, language arts,
    history, sociology is but a part of the whole
    in education.And the time needed is minimal compared to the public school.
    My girls are 1-3 years ahead bercause of two things.
    First, they were taught at an early ae that they were responsible for
    completing assignments. This means as a parent I could introduce corporal
    punishment-which was quickly administered and very effective. One or two
    sessions and that was it.
    Secondly, they weren;t distracted with other kids and all of the down time
    to learningi.e. passing out papers, collecting said papers, lining up for
    recess,
    and many other distractions that steal time. Realsitically, I spend about
    3-31/2 hours a morning on school. They have typically 1 hour of homework.
    There may be morn for special projects.
    It gives me time to spend with my girls.I am having more fun with them now
    than ever.
    It gives them time to pursue things that interest them (jobs, voluntary
    situations that might interest them as career choices-like working at a
    tiger sanctuary)and
    they also have learned(from an early age ) good homemaking skills.
    THey also have a wonderful appreciation for other generations because I have
    always taken them wherever I go and they learned at an early age that
    learning can be from anyone. THey have been able to holdconversations with
    adults forever. IT makes them more whole and rounded.
    I also agree with Julia,there are some who should not attempt to home
    school. I have met some failures. I have also met parents whose kids are so
    out of control that they have been suspended indefinitely from school and
    they choose to then homeschool. This is an impossible task. If the
    children won;t obey teachers(often because the parents fail to discipline
    children) how in the world do they think that these same chikldren have the
    self-discipline and parents have self-discipline to accomplish such a
    demanding job.
    If you have never been around successful homeschoolers-it is a very
    difficult idea to accept. But there are very many success stories.
    It is not for all. It takes minumental commitment andpatience. But success
    is a sweet, sweet end.
    Sue
    p.s.
    My children also took keyboarding and put me to shame. They said I
    shouildn;t send this fine example of typos!! 🙂

    "Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Sheldon said:

    Anyone in modern America who chooses home schooling is
    truly mentally ill...

    Speaking of mentally ill...

  18. sugrifin said:
    Nick said:
    Sheldon said:


    Anyone in modern America who chooses home schooling is truly
    mentally ill...

    Speaking of mentally ill...

    Nick,

    Throughout history more people have been home-schooled than public
    schooled. I have been given the freedom to educate my children in
    this country. I am exercising my freedom
    to give my children the best education I can provide. It means that
    I am free to use the local public school as
    a resource. It means I can enroll my children in the local college.
    I can apprentice them to people and
    situations periodically for speciality training.
    The goal in raising a fine human being, a model citizen and allround
    blalnced person is to give them all the opportunities
    I can before they leave the nest.
    Believe me, teaching the core subjects of math, science, language
    arts, history, sociology is but a part of the whole
    in education.And the time needed is minimal compared to the public
    school. My girls are 1-3 years ahead bercause of two things.
    First, they were taught at an early ae that they were responsible for
    completing assignments. This means as a parent I could introduce
    corporal punishment-which was quickly administered and very
    effective. One or two sessions and that was it.
    Secondly, they weren;t distracted with other kids and all of the
    down time to learningi.e. passing out papers, collecting said papers,
    lining up for recess,
    and many other distractions that steal time. Realsitically, I spend
    about 3-31/2 hours a morning on school. They have typically 1 hour of
    homework. There may be morn for special projects.
    It gives me time to spend with my girls.I am having more fun with
    them now than ever.
    It gives them time to pursue things that interest them (jobs,
    voluntary situations that might interest them as career choices-like
    working at a tiger sanctuary)and
    they also have learned(from an early age ) good homemaking skills.
    THey also have a wonderful appreciation for other generations because
    I have always taken them wherever I go and they learned at an early
    age that learning can be from anyone. THey have been able to
    holdconversations with adults forever. IT makes them more whole and
    rounded. I also agree with Julia,there are some who should not
    attempt to home school. I have met some failures. I have also met
    parents whose kids are so out of control that they have been
    suspended indefinitely from school and they choose to then
    homeschool. This is an impossible task. If the children won;t obey
    teachers(often because the parents fail to discipline children) how
    in the world do they think that these same chikldren have the
    self-discipline and parents have self-discipline to accomplish such a
    demanding job.
    If you have never been around successful homeschoolers-it is a very
    difficult idea to accept. But there are very many success stories.
    It is not for all. It takes minumental commitment andpatience. But
    success is a sweet, sweet end.
    Sue
    p.s.
    My children also took keyboarding and put me to shame. They said I
    shouildn;t send this fine example of typos!! 🙂

    I believe you mistook what I meant. I was pointing out that Sheldon is
    mentally ill. I live in Louisiana, which is usually ranked 49th or 50th
    in education, and my wife is currently home schooling our five year old
    daughter.

  19. Nick said:


    I believe you mistook what I meant. I was pointing out that Sheldon is
    mentally ill. I live in Louisiana, which is usually ranked 49th or 50th
    in education, and my wife is currently home schooling our five year old
    daughter.

    As would I if I lived in Louisiana. But I would never choose to live
    in Louisiana.

    You may hate Sheldon, but calling him "mentally ill" is a bit
    overboard. He may be exceedingly opinionated (nothing wrong with
    that), but he's spot-on with many of those opinions.

    -L.

  20. -L. said:
    Nick said:


    I believe you mistook what I meant. I was pointing out that Sheldon
    is mentally ill. I live in Louisiana, which is usually ranked 49th
    or 50th in education, and my wife is currently home schooling our
    five year old daughter.

    As would I if I lived in Louisiana. But I would never choose to live
    in Louisiana.

    You may hate Sheldon, but calling him "mentally ill" is a bit
    overboard. He may be exceedingly opinionated (nothing wrong with
    that), but he's spot-on with many of those opinions.

    I don't even know Sheldon. I just took a statement he made and did what I
    considered to be a written equivalent of rolling my eyes at it.

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