OT: Hurricane aftermath opinion

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

I've been watching various news sources and reading several reports on
the aftermath of the hurricane. I truly feel for the people that are
suffering and waiting for help that is slow in coming. The destruction
is staggering, and the sights of helpless people waiting for help is
heart wrenching.

I'm deeply disappointed, but not overly surprised, at the lawlessness
in New Orleans (and most likely other areas). People are committing
crimes that go way beyond the need to survive. Looting for food to
survive I can understand, but looting for televisions? Shooting at
ambulances and helicopters? Rampaging through hospitals? I trust these
crimes are committed by a minority of people, but it's saddening that
it occurs at all.

The (reported) response to the crisis by government seems
insufficient to say the least. The logistics involved in mounting
rescue operations, and the poor conditions of the roads to the
devastated areas certainly impede progress, but the slow response is
not what I would expect from the US government.

As I write this, CNN is reporting that police officers, food and
military personnel should be in New Orleans soon, but it just doesn't
seem fast enough. It's been days, after all.

I hope people get the help they need, and that order is reasonably
restored to New Orleans soon. This is not the US government's finest
hour. My heart goes out to the people who are suffering, and who have
been displaced from their homes. The eyes of the world seem to be on
New Orleans, but there are other places where people are suffering.

I'm surprised that some of the bigger private corporations haven't hired
helicopters to do food drops -- that would be GREAT public relations AND
a tax write-off, after all. I'm sure many, MANY places are taking up
collections. Maybe Bill Gates can arrange something.

--
Saffire
205/132/125
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

*** This post originated in alt.support.diet.low-carb -- its appearance
in any other forum is deceptive and unauthorized. ***

"Saffire" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm surprised that some of the bigger private corporations haven't hired
helicopters to do food drops -- that would be GREAT public relations AND
a tax write-off, after all. I'm sure many, MANY places are taking up
collections. Maybe Bill Gates can arrange something.

I can just see the chaos and mahem if someone started dropping food.
They'd likely kill each other for it. There has to be someone on the
ground, probably armed, to make sure it procedes smoothly.
I understand they have been moving people from the Superdome
stealthly to keep from starting a riot. Saw film of the first ones
arriving in Houston about 12:30AM on Thursday. Guess there has
been a pretty steady stream of buses since. They have about 500 of
buses running.

BJ

"Kevin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been watching various news sources and reading several reports on
the aftermath of the hurricane. I truly feel for the people that are
suffering and waiting for help that is slow in coming. The destruction
is staggering, and the sights of helpless people waiting for help is
heart wrenching.

I'm deeply disappointed, but not overly surprised, at the lawlessness
in New Orleans (and most likely other areas). People are committing
crimes that go way beyond the need to survive. Looting for food to
survive I can understand, but looting for televisions? Shooting at
ambulances and helicopters? Rampaging through hospitals? I trust these
crimes are committed by a minority of people, but it's saddening that
it occurs at all.

The (reported) response to the crisis by government seems
insufficient to say the least. The logistics involved in mounting
rescue operations, and the poor conditions of the roads to the
devastated areas certainly impede progress, but the slow response is
not what I would expect from the US government.

As I write this, CNN is reporting that police officers, food and
military personnel should be in New Orleans soon, but it just doesn't
seem fast enough. It's been days, after all.

I hope people get the help they need, and that order is reasonably
restored to New Orleans soon. This is not the US government's finest
hour. My heart goes out to the people who are suffering, and who have
been displaced from their homes. The eyes of the world seem to be on
New Orleans, but there are other places where people are suffering.

Kevin

The President has responded the same way he did to 9/11. He wasn't heard
from at all during the most critical time except for a token statement from
a remote location. Then after three days he flew over New Orleans and
Biloxi in his jet on his way home from vacation. Tens of thousands of
Americans have had no shelter, food or water for days and are dying in the
street while the government twiddles its thumbs. This is totally
disgusting. It's hard to believe it's the United States of America.

This is not a political partisan issue. In an interview on MSNBC the
Republican senator from Louisiana said that he was shocked and disappointed
at the lack of swift response from the President to the worst natural
disaster in the history of the country. He pointed out that last year when
there were four much less deadly hurricanes in Florida -- Jeb Bush's
State --, the response from the Federal government was immediate and
decisive each time.
~~~~
The human suffering and tragedy is near unimaginable in the central Gulf; I
pray that relief comes soon for these devastated folks.

--
Peter
Website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo

I *totally* agree with you, Peter----every word. It is just disgusting.

"Marengo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:%CPRe.3568$rj.2630@lakeread07...

Quoted message said:

"Kevin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been watching various news sources and reading several reports on
the aftermath of the hurricane. I truly feel for the people that are
suffering and waiting for help that is slow in coming. The destruction
is staggering, and the sights of helpless people waiting for help is
heart wrenching.

I'm deeply disappointed, but not overly surprised, at the lawlessness
in New Orleans (and most likely other areas). People are committing
crimes that go way beyond the need to survive. Looting for food to
survive I can understand, but looting for televisions? Shooting at
ambulances and helicopters? Rampaging through hospitals? I trust these
crimes are committed by a minority of people, but it's saddening that
it occurs at all.

The (reported) response to the crisis by government seems
insufficient to say the least. The logistics involved in mounting
rescue operations, and the poor conditions of the roads to the
devastated areas certainly impede progress, but the slow response is
not what I would expect from the US government.

As I write this, CNN is reporting that police officers, food and
military personnel should be in New Orleans soon, but it just doesn't
seem fast enough. It's been days, after all.

I hope people get the help they need, and that order is reasonably
restored to New Orleans soon. This is not the US government's finest
hour. My heart goes out to the people who are suffering, and who have
been displaced from their homes. The eyes of the world seem to be on
New Orleans, but there are other places where people are suffering.

Kevin

The President has responded the same way he did to 9/11. He wasn't heard
from at all during the most critical time except for a token statement
from a remote location. Then after three days he flew over New Orleans
and Biloxi in his jet on his way home from vacation. Tens of thousands of
Americans have had no shelter, food or water for days and are dying in the
street while the government twiddles its thumbs. This is totally
disgusting. It's hard to believe it's the United States of America.

This is not a political partisan issue. In an interview on MSNBC the
Republican senator from Louisiana said that he was shocked and
disappointed at the lack of swift response from the President to the worst
natural disaster in the history of the country. He pointed out that last
year when there were four much less deadly hurricanes in Florida -- Jeb
Bush's State --, the response from the Federal government was immediate
and decisive each time.
~~~~
The human suffering and tragedy is near unimaginable in the central Gulf;
I pray that relief comes soon for these devastated folks.

--
Peter
Website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo

In article <%CPRe.3568$rj.2630@lakeread07>,

Marengo said:

This is not a political partisan issue. In an interview on MSNBC the
Republican senator from Louisiana said that he was shocked and disappointed
at the lack of swift response from the President to the worst natural
disaster in the history of the country. He pointed out that last year when
there were four much less deadly hurricanes in Florida -- Jeb Bush's
State --, the response from the Federal government was immediate and
decisive each time.

Neither Louisiana nor Mississippi has a governor who is the Shrub's
brother.
--
D.F. Manno | [email hidden]
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. "
- H. L. Mencken

BJ said:

"Saffire" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm surprised that some of the bigger private corporations haven't hired
helicopters to do food drops -- that would be GREAT public relations AND
a tax write-off, after all. I'm sure many, MANY places are taking up
collections. Maybe Bill Gates can arrange something.

I can just see the chaos and mahem if someone started dropping food.
They'd likely kill each other for it. There has to be someone on the
ground, probably armed, to make sure it procedes smoothly.
I understand they have been moving people from the Superdome
stealthly to keep from starting a riot. Saw film of the first ones
arriving in Houston about 12:30AM on Thursday. Guess there has
been a pretty steady stream of buses since. They have about 500 of
buses running.

BJ

Good point. The "criminal element" is getting worse, with attempted
rapes, shootings and gangs. People are also hungry and desperate, and
there might be fewer people willing to share food and supplies.

CNN is reporting that the Astrodome is full and they're turning people
away. It will be interesting to see how fellow citizens in neighboring
states respond to the influx of refugees as site after site gets
filled.

Fox News became available in my area a few weeks ago. I watched Bill
O'Reilly last night for a few minutes. What a sensationalist. In my
opinion, he's a crass individual only too happy to spark contraversy
to push ratings. He suggested that the criminal element stayed behind
knowing they could rampage after the hurricane passed (paraphrasing
here). Although not entirely unbelievable, I doubt this was the case.

Kevin

Kevin mentioned in passing :

Quoted message said:

He suggested that the criminal element stayed behind
knowing they could rampage after the hurricane passed (paraphrasing
here). Although not entirely unbelievable, I doubt this was the case.

It is absolutely the case. Predators go (or stay) where the prey is. It
is an inevitable symptom of every disaster every where in all of history and
it is silly to pretend that just because someone you don't like says it, it
is not true.

Not only that, but some percentage of those screaming for help are those
who said, previous to the floods, "I'm staying and taking my chances". It
becomes a little hard to hear them complain now that their chances seem
worse. Yes, some "couldn't" leave, but some simply "wouldn't".

The rescue teams are feeding 5000/hour, rescuing thousands from their
own stupidity, getting shot at for it and now have to bear the insults of
those who are sitting watching TV all day.

Last night they showed a close up of the people grouped in front of the
convention center and I was surprised to see that they were all
afro-americans. Is New Orleans like Oakland or Washington DC, with a
predominantly black population?

"Kevin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been watching various news sources and reading several reports on
the aftermath of the hurricane. I truly feel for the people that are
suffering and waiting for help that is slow in coming. The destruction
is staggering, and the sights of helpless people waiting for help is
heart wrenching.

I'm deeply disappointed, but not overly surprised, at the lawlessness
in New Orleans (and most likely other areas). People are committing
crimes that go way beyond the need to survive. Looting for food to
survive I can understand, but looting for televisions? Shooting at
ambulances and helicopters? Rampaging through hospitals? I trust these
crimes are committed by a minority of people, but it's saddening that
it occurs at all.

The (reported) response to the crisis by government seems
insufficient to say the least. The logistics involved in mounting
rescue operations, and the poor conditions of the roads to the
devastated areas certainly impede progress, but the slow response is
not what I would expect from the US government.

As I write this, CNN is reporting that police officers, food and
military personnel should be in New Orleans soon, but it just doesn't
seem fast enough. It's been days, after all.

I hope people get the help they need, and that order is reasonably
restored to New Orleans soon. This is not the US government's finest
hour. My heart goes out to the people who are suffering, and who have
been displaced from their homes. The eyes of the world seem to be on
New Orleans, but there are other places where people are suffering.

Kevin

Kevin,

I gather you are afraid of fats, from a previous thread.

You may wish to review some links related to this:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/LowCarbHighFat/links

"Kevin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Those are the people who could not make it out. Most likely not from the
upper echelons of wealth from that city, did not have transportation before
hand, and everything and everyone in their family and world was in that
city... rode out the storm with uncles and aunties and kids and grandma and
grandpa....and yes, New Orleans has (had? so sad) a very large black
population...made the Big Easy culture the unique flavor that is is (was?)

~Melodie~ Aka AnonomissX

"Cubit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Last night they showed a close up of the people grouped in front of the
convention center and I was surprised to see that they were all
afro-americans. Is New Orleans like Oakland or Washington DC, with a
predominantly black population?

"Kevin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been watching various news sources and reading several reports on
the aftermath of the hurricane. I truly feel for the people that are
suffering and waiting for help that is slow in coming. The destruction
is staggering, and the sights of helpless people waiting for help is
heart wrenching.

I'm deeply disappointed, but not overly surprised, at the lawlessness
in New Orleans (and most likely other areas). People are committing
crimes that go way beyond the need to survive. Looting for food to
survive I can understand, but looting for televisions? Shooting at
ambulances and helicopters? Rampaging through hospitals? I trust these
crimes are committed by a minority of people, but it's saddening that
it occurs at all.

The (reported) response to the crisis by government seems
insufficient to say the least. The logistics involved in mounting
rescue operations, and the poor conditions of the roads to the
devastated areas certainly impede progress, but the slow response is
not what I would expect from the US government.

As I write this, CNN is reporting that police officers, food and
military personnel should be in New Orleans soon, but it just doesn't
seem fast enough. It's been days, after all.

I hope people get the help they need, and that order is reasonably
restored to New Orleans soon. This is not the US government's finest
hour. My heart goes out to the people who are suffering, and who have
been displaced from their homes. The eyes of the world seem to be on
New Orleans, but there are other places where people are suffering.

Kevin

Lass Chance_2 mentioned in passing :

Quoted message said:

I had an interesting email from a friend of mine in Italy this
morning----saying, "WE dont understand why Bush declined the many
offers of help from Italy, Germany, France and other Eurpoean
countries...?"

False.

Quoted message said:

and those people had NO help at all those first days.

False.

Cubit----yes, there's a LOT of Black folks in Louisianna and
Mississippi. And, they make up the majority of the POOR---I.e. those
who could NOT pack up the family and drive to a nice motel with a pool
in a neighboring state to wait it out. It looks like a racial thing, but
is really an economic thing--

Louisianna and Mississippi are also very poor states---many, many people
living on welfare. Last time I was in New Orleans, I was talking with a
waitress in a French Quarter restaurant, who told me she and her family
had moved to N.O. to find work---that there were no jobs in he many
small parishes of Louisianna and most young people couldnt wait to leave
home and move to new Orleans to find work. Basically, you either farm,
work on oil rigs or move to N.O. and work in the tourist trade in some
capacity---restaurants, bars, hotels. In other words, New Orleans WAS
the high point of potential to make a decent living....and now, it's
gone.

You can bet the restaurant owners, bar owners, etc. got out.....anybody
who could pack up and leave probably did. (except those old timers
who've seen a hundred hurricaines come and go, pass over, leaving little
damage and figured this would be one more). But the folks who work in
the joints, shucking oysters,cleaning rooms, minimum wage earners and
their families....how can they leave? Gas was already expensive, many
dont have cars (streetcars are pevalent, good bus system), very little
money to travel and none at all for a motel stay. I mean....they didnt
stay because they're stupid---they stayed because they could not
leave....and, like I said, they've had so many "close calls" with
hurricaines, it's human nature to think, "Ah, it will pass over.....like
it did last time"

A friend of mine in Fla. left twice, drove to her daughter's house in
Charleston both times, to avoid hurricaines. Each trip cost her about
700 bucks and neither hurricaine hit her town, after all. OK, so there's
one person with a decent job who could and did leave....wasting 1400
bucks, leaving her home to be vandalized for what turned out to be
nothing. The next hurricaine, she did not leave....and sure enough, was
hit, big time. She spent the long night lying inside her kitchen
cupboard, hearing roofs being ripped off, one by one, including her own.

It's a [censored] shoot. A hurricaine heading right toward you can and often
does make a sudden turn, hitting a town unexpectedly, missing the ones
who evacuated, or going back to sea, causing no damage at all....lots of
money wasted and many unprepared, hit hard.

You live in California, right? Land of the mudslide and earthquake?
Brush fires?

Everybody knows sooner or later, there will be the BIG One, right?
But.....still, people stay.

Home is Home, man....wherever home is.
The folks with money can lkeave home....but the poor cannot.

Lass

well, that was real illuminating, Bill. A couple of "False's" with zip
else.

WHAT's "false"? That Bush received or declined offers of help? Which is
false? Both? Neither?

Who helped?

pffffft.

LassChance

Re: Hurricane aftermath opinion

Group: alt.support.diet.low-carb Date: Fri, Sep 2, 2005, 12:00pm From:
[email hidden] (Bill DeWitt)
Lass Chance_2 mentioned in passing :
I had an interesting email from a friend of mine in Italy this
morning----saying, "WE dont understand why Bush declined the many offers
of help from Italy, Germany, France and other Eurpoean countries...?"
        False.
    and those people had NO help at all those first days.
        False.

Yes, I think it's something like 60%.

In news:[email hidden],
Cubit <[email hidden]> stated
| Last night they showed a close up of the people grouped in front of
| the convention center and I was surprised to see that they were all
| afro-americans. Is New Orleans like Oakland or Washington DC, with a
| predominantly black population?
|
|

Lass Chance_2 mentioned in passing :

Quoted message said:

well, that was real illuminating, Bill. A couple of "False's" with
zip else.

No one has turned down any usable foreign help, although there was
little usable help offered. For instance, IIRC, one European country offered
helicopters... they should be here in 2-3 weeks. When disaster strikes, it's
hard to fix things as fast as our 30 min society wishes. That's why they
tell people to make sure they have a week's worth of water and food ready
for a hurricane.They know, as any reasonable person does, that help -cannot-
arrive in the first few days. It's called 'logistics', look it up.

So, "those people" had as much help as humanly possible from the friday
before the hurricane hit.

FOB mentioned in passing :

Quoted message said:

The minute the first levee broke they should have know that everyone
would have to be evacuated.

That was Tuesday, mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday. So,
they -did- know, they did warn, but they can't haul 200,000+ people out of
town against their will.

Now, how would -you- have evacuated 200,000+ people in the few days
since the levy broke? They were shipping people out early Wednesday. Could
you have done better?

Disasters happen. The reason it is called a disaster is that it
overwhelms all reasonable human precautions. Unfortunately, most of the
people still in NO did not take even the minimum of reasonable precautions.
It will take a while to overcome both the hurricane and human stupidity.

Quoted message said:

We look like a third world country.

No, but you sound like a back seat driver.

Bob (this one) mentioned in passing :

Quoted message said:

Bill DeWitt said:

Lass Chance_2 mentioned in passing :

Quoted message said:

well, that was real illuminating, Bill. A couple of "False's" with
zip else.

Quoted message said:

No one has turned down any usable foreign help, although there
was little usable help offered.

Canada *sent* people while the storm was still going on and they're
working. France offered trained rescue people as did Israel and
England. They could have been there in hours. They aren't.

We have plenty of people, thanks.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For instance, IIRC, one European country offered
helicopters... they should be here in 2-3 weeks.

One spurious example doesn't constitute anything but one spurious
example. You, and they, know full well that we have no need of
helicopters.

My point exactly.

Quoted message said:

And, parenthetically, do you in your dimbulb rationalizations imagine
that this will be all over in 2-3 weeks?

Well, I can see you are just in this to express your anger. Let me know
when you regain your calm. As you would know, if you cared to learn, there
is a massive and effective response that started the Friday before the storm
hit land. Thousands have been rescued, tens of thousands have been
evacuated, hundreds of thousandes of meals have been provided, but of
course, it is not enough. It can never be enough in a disaster this large.
It takes time to respond, but 3-4 days is not unreasonable, in fact, it is
what I experienced in nearly every large storm that came by in my 50 years
in Florida.

You just are so glad there is something you can blame on Bush that you
are willing to say anything. Have at it... but don't expect to be believed
by the sane.

Dave LCHF said:

Kevin,

I gather you are afraid of fats, from a previous thread.

You may wish to review some links related to this:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/LowCarbHighFat/links

Hmmm... wasn't expecting to read about fats in this thread (the
non-Domino kind anyways), bu thanks. I've increased my fat intake a
bit, but I've still managed to lose 10.5 pounds since last Monday on
the GI Diet. This without a whole lot of cadio, as my sciatic nerve is
still a pain.

Kevin

If I were the person in charge of disaster planning, I would have a damn
plan. These people have no plan. I would have had places lined up where
people could be taken, I would have established lines of contact with the
feds to get transportation there as soon as possible and to bring water and
food until everyone could get out. Declaring a mandatory evacuation is not
a plan. Most of the people there were unable to leave. They either have no
car, or are minimum wage workers--it was right before payday--and couldn't
afford a tank of gas, or they were ill--lots of people were in hospitals, or
the airport closed down and they couldn't rent cars. It is sure easy for
you to be an armchair quarterback and blame the victims. If we're going to
have a society where people can't find jobs that pay a living wage, we need
to have some safety nets for them when they need them.

In news:[email hidden],
Bill DeWitt <[email hidden]> stated
| FOB mentioned in passing :
||
|| The minute the first levee broke they should have know that everyone
|| would have to be evacuated.
|
| That was Tuesday, mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday. So,
| they -did- know, they did warn, but they can't haul 200,000+ people
| out of town against their will.
|
| Now, how would -you- have evacuated 200,000+ people in the few
| days since the levy broke? They were shipping people out early
| Wednesday. Could you have done better?
|
| Disasters happen. The reason it is called a disaster is that it
| overwhelms all reasonable human precautions. Unfortunately, most of
| the people still in NO did not take even the minimum of reasonable
| precautions. It will take a while to overcome both the hurricane and
| human stupidity.
|
|| We look like a third world country.
|
| No, but you sound like a back seat driver.