OT - high triglycerides in dogs

Debbie Cusick wrote:
|| Has anyone ever had any experience with the above? My three dogs are
|| all getting older, and they were at the vet's for a standard yearly
|| checkup and shots in August - and the vet recommended we run a blood
|| panel on them, which they recommend for older dogs, in case of
|| indications of troubles. It *seemed* like a good idea, and I agreed,
|| but the results came back with some crazy numbers.
||
|| Two of my dogs have crazy-high triglycerides! Normal for dogs is a
|| max of 290, and Maggie's count was 950, and Merlin's was 1880! Those
|| are not high, they are off the charts. I've tried to do some
|| research on the internet, but it's hard to find any info. Most of
|| the hits I get deal with *people* who have high triglycerides, and
|| how walking their dogs is part of their therapy. What little I have
|| found indicates that the dogs should be on a very strict low-fat
|| diet.
||

?? why should a dog be on a strict low-fat diet? I can see why exercise
would be important.

|| My vet suggests I put them on Science Diet i/d, but I don't
|| understand vet's love affair with Science Diet (other than the fact
|| that it is only sold through vet's offices, and they make a profit
|| on it). I've never liked the ingredients in Science Diet. They use
|| corn as their number one ingredient in all their products I've
|| looked at (including the i/d) and I've read that corn is a very
|| common allergen for dogs.

Try LC. They probalby already eat too many carbs.

||
|| So I'm trying to decide what to do. Of course I should probably
|| retest their blood - but in the meantime? The vet says that,
|| untreated, it can lead to heart disease and severe pancreatic
|| disease. I've fed them Nutro Natural Choice Lamb and Rice for just
|| about all their lives, and it's fat content fits within the
|| guidelines recommended for their condition (though at the high end)
|| and it has not kept them normal. I'm thinking about switching to to
|| Nutro Natural Choice Lite, which is even lower in fat, yet find
|| myself wondering if this is what is best for them. I searched the
|| dog groups in usenet but found nothing too useful there, and people
|| who complained about their dogs high triglycerides talked about
|| their dogs having values in the 350-500 range. heck, I'd be happy if
|| that was what my dogs had. :-)

I don't see how rice is going to help them...and I don't see how low fat
will be particularly healthly for them since that usually means high carb.

Hi Debbie,

Debbie Cusick said:

Has anyone ever had any experience with the above? My three dogs are
all getting older, and they were at the vet's for a standard yearly
checkup and shots in August - and the vet recommended we run a blood
panel on
them, which they recommend for older dogs, in case of indications of
troubles. It *seemed* like a good idea, and I agreed, but the
results came back
with some crazy numbers.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp

Input "hypercholesterolemia". Most of what I found on the 'net
concerning high cholesterol in dogs had to do with hypothyroidism.

I hope you find what you're looking for.

Take care,
Carmen

I'm thinking the dogs should be doing lo-carb as well. No corn or rice
fillers. More fat, not less. If a lo-carb diet lowers triglycerides in
humans, why wouldn't it work for dogs too? Why not try feeding them meat,
fish, fowl, and eggs for a month or 2 and get them re-tested. Cost may be a
factor for you, but you may have to spend it on drugs later, which may be
even more than switching to a more expensive diet. Meals closer to their
natural ones certainly couldn't hurt them.
Tom
210/180/180
--------------------------------------------------------
"Debbie Cusick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:sQK1d.18572$z_3.1347@trndny07...

Quoted message said:

Has anyone ever had any experience with the above? My three dogs are all
getting older, and they were at the vet's for a standard yearly checkup

and

Quoted message said:

shots in August - and the vet recommended we run a blood panel on them,
which they recommend for older dogs, in case of indications of troubles.

It

Quoted message said:

*seemed* like a good idea, and I agreed, but the results came back with

some

Quoted message said:

crazy numbers.

Two of my dogs have crazy-high triglycerides! Normal for dogs is a max of
290, and Maggie's count was 950, and Merlin's was 1880! Those are not

high,

Quoted message said:

they are off the charts. I've tried to do some research on the internet,

but

Quoted message said:

it's hard to find any info. Most of the hits I get deal with *people* who
have high triglycerides, and how walking their dogs is part of their
therapy. What little I have found indicates that the dogs should be on a
very strict low-fat diet.

My vet suggests I put them on Science Diet i/d, but I don't understand

vet's

Quoted message said:

love affair with Science Diet (other than the fact that it is only sold
through vet's offices, and they make a profit on it). I've never liked the
ingredients in Science Diet. They use corn as their number one ingredient

in

Quoted message said:

all their products I've looked at (including the i/d) and I've read that
corn is a very common allergen for dogs.

So I'm trying to decide what to do. Of course I should probably retest

their

Quoted message said:

blood - but in the meantime? The vet says that, untreated, it can lead to
heart disease and severe pancreatic disease. I've fed them Nutro Natural
Choice Lamb and Rice for just about all their lives, and it's fat content
fits within the guidelines recommended for their condition (though at the
high end) and it has not kept them normal. I'm thinking about switching to
to Nutro Natural Choice Lite, which is even lower in fat, yet find myself
wondering if this is what is best for them. I searched the dog groups in
usenet but found nothing too useful there, and people who complained about
their dogs high triglycerides talked about their dogs having values in the
350-500 range. heck, I'd be happy if that was what my dogs had. :-)

--
Debbie

Carmen said:

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp

Input "hypercholesterolemia". Most of what I found on the 'net
concerning high cholesterol in dogs had to do with hypothyroidism.

Thanks for the Merck link. Great site. Oddly, neither dog had high
cholesterol as far as their overall number went, just the triglycerides,
which makes me wonder if the test was skewed in some way. Thyroid was also
checked, and both are normal there as well. My third dog, who *does* suffer
from hypothyroidism, and is on medication for it, has pefectly normal
triglyceride levels.

I never know what to think anymore. I posted a question on
rec.pets.dogs.health also, and everyone there is telling me that Science
Diet is an excellent thing for dogs, and almost no dogs are allergic to
corn, and it's an excellent food for them. Yet I've had many others tell me
the exact opposite. It's as bad as dietary advice in humans. :-)
--
Debbie

Quoted message said:

and everyone there is telling me that Science
Diet is an excellent thing for dogs, and almost no dogs are allergic to
corn, and it's an excellent food for them. Yet I've had many others tell me
the exact opposite. It's as bad as dietary advice in humans. :-)

Maybe every dog is different, just like humans? I really can't imagine how or
why rice and corn would be good for carnivores though. It just seems odd. But
I'm no expert.
LCing since 12/01/03-
Me- 5'7" 265/166/140
& hubby- 6' 310/188/180
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos

Quoted message said:

My vet suggests I put them on Science Diet i/d, but I don't understand

vet's

Quoted message said:

love affair with Science Diet (other than the fact that it is only sold
through vet's offices, and they make a profit on it). I've never liked the
ingredients in Science Diet. They use corn as their number one ingredient

in

Quoted message said:

all their products I've looked at (including the i/d) and I've read that
corn is a very common allergen for dogs.

Science Diet, Eukanuba, and those other expensive dog foods are formulated
to be easier on the dog's intestines while producing less waste products.
My dog was on the one that is mainly rice and chicken because that was
easier on her liver and kidneys as she got older. Do you know if your dogs
are allergic to corn? If not, what's the worry?

Try the Science Diet for a short time and see how your dogs adapt to it.
BTW: did he recommend the canned or the dry?

Pat in TX

get 'em off dry food if they're on it. dogs would never hunt down a rice
paddy or corn stalk in a natural environment.

--
Peace,
Pen
--
Pawbreakers - The Candy for Cats!
http://www.pawbreakers.com

"Debbie Cusick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:sQK1d.18572$z_3.1347@trndny07...

Quoted message said:

Has anyone ever had any experience with the above? My three dogs are all
getting older, and they were at the vet's for a standard yearly checkup

and

Quoted message said:

shots in August - and the vet recommended we run a blood panel on them,
which they recommend for older dogs, in case of indications of troubles.

It

Quoted message said:

*seemed* like a good idea, and I agreed, but the results came back with

some

Quoted message said:

crazy numbers.

Two of my dogs have crazy-high triglycerides! Normal for dogs is a max of
290, and Maggie's count was 950, and Merlin's was 1880! Those are not

high,

Quoted message said:

they are off the charts. I've tried to do some research on the internet,

but

Quoted message said:

it's hard to find any info. Most of the hits I get deal with *people* who
have high triglycerides, and how walking their dogs is part of their
therapy. What little I have found indicates that the dogs should be on a
very strict low-fat diet.

My vet suggests I put them on Science Diet i/d, but I don't understand

vet's

Quoted message said:

love affair with Science Diet (other than the fact that it is only sold
through vet's offices, and they make a profit on it). I've never liked the
ingredients in Science Diet. They use corn as their number one ingredient

in

Quoted message said:

all their products I've looked at (including the i/d) and I've read that
corn is a very common allergen for dogs.

So I'm trying to decide what to do. Of course I should probably retest

their

Quoted message said:

blood - but in the meantime? The vet says that, untreated, it can lead to
heart disease and severe pancreatic disease. I've fed them Nutro Natural
Choice Lamb and Rice for just about all their lives, and it's fat content
fits within the guidelines recommended for their condition (though at the
high end) and it has not kept them normal. I'm thinking about switching to
to Nutro Natural Choice Lite, which is even lower in fat, yet find myself
wondering if this is what is best for them. I searched the dog groups in
usenet but found nothing too useful there, and people who complained about
their dogs high triglycerides talked about their dogs having values in the
350-500 range. heck, I'd be happy if that was what my dogs had. :-)

--
Debbie

Quoted message said:

I don't see how rice is going to help them...and I don't see how low fat
will be particularly healthly for them since that usually means high carb.

The rice is to make it easier on their kidneys, etc., to digest the food.

Pat in TX

Pat said:

Quoted message said:

I don't see how rice is going to help them...and I don't see how low fat
will be particularly healthly for them since that usually means high
carb.

The rice is to make it easier on their kidneys, etc., to digest the food.

Pat in TX

Wasn't there a "low carb thread for dogs" sometime ago where people said
their dogs did better on low carb?

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

If you want to have a little fun while you are doing some research on canine
nutrition -- read Dr. Billinghurst and Ray Audette at the same time and then
Dr. Pitcairn and Dr. Atkins🙂

Feeding dry kibble to dogs is the equivalent of feeding yourself beans and rice
and "whole grain" pasta -- it sounds helathy until you stop looking at it
through the lens of the low-fat paradigm.

And as for the quality of the ingedients -- how can they be paying for decent
ingredients yet selling anything that cheap per pound? The cost of the bag is
greater than the cost of the actual food in the bag (and probably contains
about the same amount of AVAILABLE protein).

Enjoy your research -- there is TONS of info out there🙂Robyn
***********************************
Robyn Lori Rosenthal
Sterling Cotons and Park Place Grooming
Sterling, VA USA
***********************************

Debbie, I was always able to get Science Diet dog food in pet stores when I
was using it.
I liked it because it was pelletized, not the puffed up kind of dog food. I
had a dog die of gastric torsion (sp?) which might have been prevented with
a different type food.
It's pretty expensive to lc your dogs.
🙁

jo
nj...who is down to one dog...but up to 4 cats!

Quoted message said:

Debbie Cusick wrote:
|| Has anyone ever had any experience with the above? My three dogs are
|| all getting older, and they were at the vet's for a standard yearly
|| checkup and shots in August - and the vet recommended we run a blood
|| panel on them, which they recommend for older dogs, in case of
|| indications of troubles. It *seemed* like a good idea, and I agreed,
|| but the results came back with some crazy numbers.
|| Two of my dogs have crazy-high triglycerides! Normal for dogs is a
|| max of 290, and Maggie's count was 950, and Merlin's was 1880! Those
|| are not high, they are off the charts. I've tried to do some
|| research on the internet, but it's hard to find any info. Most of
|| the hits I get deal with *people* who have high triglycerides, and
|| how walking their dogs is part of their therapy. What little I have
|| found indicates that the dogs should be on a very strict low-fat
|| diet.
|| My vet suggests I put them on Science Diet i/d, but I don't
|| understand vet's love affair with Science Diet (other than the fact
|| that it is only sold through vet's offices, and they make a profit
|| on it). I've never liked the ingredients in Science Diet. They use
|| corn as their number one ingredient in all their products I've
|| looked at (including the i/d) and I've read that corn is a very
|| common allergen for dogs.

"Penelope Baker" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:10kfe4vp0tjdcc1
@corp.supernews.com:

Quoted message said:

get 'em off dry food if they're on it. dogs would never hunt down a rice
paddy or corn stalk in a natural environment.

While I'm not a true believer in either dry or canned food for dogs (if I
had my druthers I'd feed the BARF diet), they would indeed 'hunt' rice and
corn if left on their own.

A dog left on his own to wander the streets (there is no 'natural
environment' for today's dogs that doesn't include living with and
depending on humans) will eat anything that looks appealing, whether it's a
T-bone, a bag of doritos, white rice, carrots, or a Milky Way.

IOW, they don't just go for meat.

Cate

"Debbie Cusick" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:sQK1d.18572$z_
3.1347@trndny07:

Quoted message said:

Has anyone ever had any experience with the above?

I don't know the answer, but I suggest posting the question at
alt.med.veterinary. It's been a long time since I posted at AMV and I don't
know if any actual vets are still there, but try.

Also try at rec.pets.dogs.behavior. RPDB has a lot of knowledgeable owners
that don't post at RPD.health--and almost none of them are Science Diet
advocates (including me). Health issues are regularly discussed there.
(Beware of two particularly bothersome trolls in RPDB, one of whom is
almost certainly certifiable, the other merely annoying. They are so
prolific a newbie might mistakenly think they're representative of the ng.)

Cate

"Cate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Penelope Baker" <[email hidden]> wrote in

news:10kfe4vp0tjdcc1

Quoted message said:

@corp.supernews.com:

Quoted message said:

get 'em off dry food if they're on it. dogs would never hunt down a

rice

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

paddy or corn stalk in a natural environment.

While I'm not a true believer in either dry or canned food for dogs (if I
had my druthers I'd feed the BARF diet), they would indeed 'hunt' rice and
corn if left on their own.

A dog left on his own to wander the streets (there is no 'natural
environment' for today's dogs that doesn't include living with and
depending on humans) will eat anything that looks appealing, whether it's

a

Quoted message said:

T-bone, a bag of doritos, white rice, carrots, or a Milky Way.

that's exactly my point. they are opportunistic, but they would never,
EVER, hunt down a rice paddy or corn stalk in nature. they'd eat carrion,
or whatever. the stuff that you mentioned is all products of humanity, not
nature.

peace,
pen

"Penelope Baker" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

that's exactly my point. they are opportunistic, but they would
never, EVER, hunt down a rice paddy or corn stalk in nature.

Well, they wouldn't hunt down anything 'in nature' because Labs and Yorkies
don't and never have roamed the forests and plains having to fend for
themselves.

they'd

Quoted message said:

eat carrion, or whatever. the stuff that you mentioned is all
products of humanity, not nature.

My dog will also eat berries, a raw potato, an ear of corn, grasses, and
anything else that appeals to him. Things that aren't products of humans
and that are found in many dogs foods. Dogs are, as you say,
opportunistists.

However, I repeat that I'm not a fan of dried foods any more than I'd be a
fan of a human living on People Chow day in and day out. I'd prefer to give
my dog a proper balance of whole foods, and I hope one day to have the time
to do it properly.

Cate

Pat wrote:
::: I don't see how rice is going to help them...and I don't see how
::: low fat will be particularly healthly for them since that usually
::: means high carb.
::
:: The rice is to make it easier on their kidneys, etc., to digest the
:: food.
::

Would dogs in the wild chow on rice? Perhaps the rice is causing BG
problems which results in higer trigs.

"Debbie Cusick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<smM1d.3970$_53.669@trndny02>...

Quoted message said:

Carmen said:

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp

Input "hypercholesterolemia". Most of what I found on the 'net
concerning high cholesterol in dogs had to do with hypothyroidism.

Thanks for the Merck link. Great site. Oddly, neither dog had high
cholesterol as far as their overall number went, just the triglycerides,
which makes me wonder if the test was skewed in some way. Thyroid was also
checked, and both are normal there as well. My third dog, who *does* suffer
from hypothyroidism, and is on medication for it, has pefectly normal
triglyceride levels.

I never know what to think anymore. I posted a question on
rec.pets.dogs.health also, and everyone there is telling me that Science
Diet is an excellent thing for dogs, and almost no dogs are allergic to
corn, and it's an excellent food for them. Yet I've had many others tell me
the exact opposite. It's as bad as dietary advice in humans. :-)

I don't have direct experience with elevated triglycerides in dogs,
but I can second the rec for the Hill's Prescription Diet. My cat was
severely overweight at 18.5 pounds 6 months ago. I put him on the
Feline M/D per my vet's rec and now he's 16.2. Two pounds may not seem
like much to you and me, but to a lil cat it's a lot! I guess M/D is
sort of the low-carb option for cats. I wonder if I/D is the low-carb
option for dogs. Also, my cat LOVES the stuff. Scarfs it right down
without a touch of his former finickiness.

Dogs are low carb and shouldn't give you high triglycerides.

<g>

Peter
Before/Current Pix:
http://users.thelink.net/marengo/weightlosspix/weightlosspix.html

Cate wrote:
|| "Penelope Baker" <[email hidden]> wrote in
|| news:10kfe4vp0tjdcc1 @corp.supernews.com:
||
||| get 'em off dry food if they're on it. dogs would never hunt down
||| a rice paddy or corn stalk in a natural environment.
||
|| While I'm not a true believer in either dry or canned food for dogs
|| (if I had my druthers I'd feed the BARF diet), they would indeed
|| 'hunt' rice and corn if left on their own.
||
|| A dog left on his own to wander the streets (there is no 'natural
|| environment' for today's dogs that doesn't include living with and
|| depending on humans) will eat anything that looks appealing, whether
|| it's a T-bone, a bag of doritos, white rice, carrots, or a Milky Way.
||
|| IOW, they don't just go for meat.
||

That only proves that they have become used to a diet of junk food, just
like most of us here. If you where hungry, you'd eat potato chips, pop,
cookies, etc, if you had no other choice. That doesn't mean that such foods
are good for you. Likewise for the dog.